Mesmer Condition Removal Problem
You don’t need condition removal as a mandatory function to make Mesmer work.
Know your enemy first and foremost and learn to disengage when you need to.
This is false. I do not know on what MMR you play at but in High MMR matches, you might as well just afk if you do not have any cleanses.
Knowing your enemy is like 5% of the equation. You will never ever beat any condition class without a cleanse. It’s impossible. (Assuming equal skill)
Every class needs condition removal of atleast 1 source.
What you said makes you sound like a bad player who needs a crutch.
Again, I do not know what MMR you play in, so I am assuming you are facing average players.
And you’re clearly a bad player. Case in point, this thread.
Okay, 1v1 my ranger with no condi cleanse. Let’s bet gold on it. NO condi cleanse means no sigils either.
And please no PU.
I can understand the condition cleanse stipulation. But still the hate on pu???
Because PU does not happen in a real 5v5 match. My topic was about Condi Cleanse in an organized 5v5, you know when you get focused. And this guy phokus tells me I’m a bad player that I need cleanse on a competitive team match. I mean… really?
Champion Illusionist Champion Hunter Champion Phantom Champion Magus
I just wanted the reason. I still find it interesting pu has still so much hate. Even after nerfs. I suppose another thread.
I just wanted the reason. I still find it interesting pu has still so much hate. Even after nerfs. I suppose another thread.
Bad players need something to blame for losing. It’s not that they lacked the skill to kill someone, it’s because their opponent ran the evil permastealth fullcondi zerker permaheal boonbomber build.
Gutter Rat [cry] | Gandara | Roaming nuisance
~ There is no balance team. ~
~ There is no balance team. ~
I just wanted the reason. I still find it interesting pu has still so much hate. Even after nerfs. I suppose another thread.
Bad players need something to blame for losing. It’s not that they lacked the skill to kill someone, it’s because their opponent ran the evil permastealth fullcondi zerker permaheal boonbomber build.
This has nothing to do with being bad or what not. Just recreating what really happens on an actual Scrimm or tourney.
Champion Illusionist Champion Hunter Champion Phantom Champion Magus
You don’t need condition removal as a mandatory function to make Mesmer work.
Know your enemy first and foremost and learn to disengage when you need to.
This is false. I do not know on what MMR you play at but in High MMR matches, you might as well just afk if you do not have any cleanses.
Knowing your enemy is like 5% of the equation. You will never ever beat any condition class without a cleanse. It’s impossible. (Assuming equal skill)
Every class needs condition removal of atleast 1 source.
What you said makes you sound like a bad player who needs a crutch.
Again, I do not know what MMR you play in, so I am assuming you are facing average players.
And you’re clearly a bad player. Case in point, this thread.
Okay, 1v1 my ranger with no condi cleanse. Let’s bet gold on it. NO condi cleanse means no sigils either.
And please no PU.
I can understand the condition cleanse stipulation. But still the hate on pu???
If it’s a 1v1 why would you need PU? I don’t care much for PU because I love Bountiful Disillusionment too much now over it but if you have to rely on PU to win then you’re as bad a player as phokus claims Stickers is.
This is basically the definition of scrub logic. While stickers is right that you’re not going to see PU in most competitive matches, claiming that a win to PU is a false win is nothing other than creating false win conditions that have nothing to do with the actual game.
You don’t need condition removal as a mandatory function to make Mesmer work.
Know your enemy first and foremost and learn to disengage when you need to.
This is false. I do not know on what MMR you play at but in High MMR matches, you might as well just afk if you do not have any cleanses.
Knowing your enemy is like 5% of the equation. You will never ever beat any condition class without a cleanse. It’s impossible. (Assuming equal skill)
Every class needs condition removal of atleast 1 source.
What you said makes you sound like a bad player who needs a crutch.
Again, I do not know what MMR you play in, so I am assuming you are facing average players.
And you’re clearly a bad player. Case in point, this thread.
Okay, 1v1 my ranger with no condi cleanse. Let’s bet gold on it. NO condi cleanse means no sigils either.
And please no PU.
I can understand the condition cleanse stipulation. But still the hate on pu???
If it’s a 1v1 why would you need PU? I don’t care much for PU because I love Bountiful Disillusionment too much now over it but if you have to rely on PU to win then you’re as bad a player as phokus claims Stickers is.
This is basically the definition of scrub logic. While stickers is right that you’re not going to see PU in most competitive matches, claiming that a win to PU is a false win is nothing other than creating false win conditions that have nothing to do with the actual game.
Oh yea. Lemme ask you pyro, am I delusional that Condition removal is required in competitive pvp matches?
Champion Illusionist Champion Hunter Champion Phantom Champion Magus
You don’t need condition removal as a mandatory function to make Mesmer work.
Know your enemy first and foremost and learn to disengage when you need to.
This is false. I do not know on what MMR you play at but in High MMR matches, you might as well just afk if you do not have any cleanses.
Knowing your enemy is like 5% of the equation. You will never ever beat any condition class without a cleanse. It’s impossible. (Assuming equal skill)
Every class needs condition removal of atleast 1 source.
What you said makes you sound like a bad player who needs a crutch.
Again, I do not know what MMR you play in, so I am assuming you are facing average players.
And you’re clearly a bad player. Case in point, this thread.
Okay, 1v1 my ranger with no condi cleanse. Let’s bet gold on it. NO condi cleanse means no sigils either.
And please no PU.
I can understand the condition cleanse stipulation. But still the hate on pu???
If it’s a 1v1 why would you need PU? I don’t care much for PU because I love Bountiful Disillusionment too much now over it but if you have to rely on PU to win then you’re as bad a player as phokus claims Stickers is.
This is basically the definition of scrub logic. While stickers is right that you’re not going to see PU in most competitive matches, claiming that a win to PU is a false win is nothing other than creating false win conditions that have nothing to do with the actual game.
Oh yea. Lemme ask you pyro, am I delusional that Condition removal is required in competitive pvp matches?
Yay for rhetorical questions.
Kortham Raysplitter (Yak’s Bend)
You don’t need condition removal as a mandatory function to make Mesmer work.
Know your enemy first and foremost and learn to disengage when you need to.
This is false. I do not know on what MMR you play at but in High MMR matches, you might as well just afk if you do not have any cleanses.
Knowing your enemy is like 5% of the equation. You will never ever beat any condition class without a cleanse. It’s impossible. (Assuming equal skill)
Every class needs condition removal of atleast 1 source.
What you said makes you sound like a bad player who needs a crutch.
Again, I do not know what MMR you play in, so I am assuming you are facing average players.
And you’re clearly a bad player. Case in point, this thread.
Okay, 1v1 my ranger with no condi cleanse. Let’s bet gold on it. NO condi cleanse means no sigils either.
And please no PU.
I can understand the condition cleanse stipulation. But still the hate on pu???
If it’s a 1v1 why would you need PU? I don’t care much for PU because I love Bountiful Disillusionment too much now over it but if you have to rely on PU to win then you’re as bad a player as phokus claims Stickers is.
This is basically the definition of scrub logic. While stickers is right that you’re not going to see PU in most competitive matches, claiming that a win to PU is a false win is nothing other than creating false win conditions that have nothing to do with the actual game.
Oh yea. Lemme ask you pyro, am I delusional that Condition removal is required in competitive pvp matches?
Yay for rhetorical questions.
No seriously, Maybe it’s just me or, everyone is either really good playing without or minimal cleanses in this meta or I am just bad.
Champion Illusionist Champion Hunter Champion Phantom Champion Magus
I think this season U need to have a condi remowal U can rely on.
With out it I will never win most of 1v1 fights.
And when U will be focused in team fight it will not metter how many cleanses U have, U will be dead anyway.
You don’t need condition removal as a mandatory function to make Mesmer work.
Know your enemy first and foremost and learn to disengage when you need to.
This is false. I do not know on what MMR you play at but in High MMR matches, you might as well just afk if you do not have any cleanses.
Knowing your enemy is like 5% of the equation. You will never ever beat any condition class without a cleanse. It’s impossible. (Assuming equal skill)
Every class needs condition removal of atleast 1 source.
What you said makes you sound like a bad player who needs a crutch.
Again, I do not know what MMR you play in, so I am assuming you are facing average players.
And you’re clearly a bad player. Case in point, this thread.
Okay, 1v1 my ranger with no condi cleanse. Let’s bet gold on it. NO condi cleanse means no sigils either.
And please no PU.
I can understand the condition cleanse stipulation. But still the hate on pu???
If it’s a 1v1 why would you need PU? I don’t care much for PU because I love Bountiful Disillusionment too much now over it but if you have to rely on PU to win then you’re as bad a player as phokus claims Stickers is.
This is basically the definition of scrub logic. While stickers is right that you’re not going to see PU in most competitive matches, claiming that a win to PU is a false win is nothing other than creating false win conditions that have nothing to do with the actual game.
Oh yea. Lemme ask you pyro, am I delusional that Condition removal is required in competitive pvp matches?
So in the past, you could play power shatter with minimal/no condition removal. You played it as hit and run with ample stealth; engaging rapidly, bursting rapidly, disengaging rapidly. This worked, mostly. If an engineer or necro or trap ranger or something got the jump on you, you died without any question.
Power Mesmer is not viable in the current meta, and so neither is that tactic. Any sort of condie build has a much longer time period of engagement that they need to be impactful on a fight. This is true for power interrupt builds too, not that they’re viable either. Needing to stay in a fight longer means you can’t just blink away in stealth and nurse yourself back to health every time an engineer sneezes on you.
If you run without any condition removal in this meta, you’ll generally end up dead or dying most fights. You won’t accomplish anything useful outside of adding screen clutter. A single necro mark can incapacitate you for most of a fight without removals. What are you going to do with chill, poison, and weakness on you for 10 seconds? What are you going to do if the necro spends 3 seconds to cast more than 1 mark? What will you do when an engineer walks by and covers a point in condition aoe?
Essentially, taking no condition removal means that you can’t fully engage into any fight. Fighting on any point will be abject suicide, and you’ll be eaten alive by many current builds in a 1v1 scenario. Phokus argues that you can just disengage when necessary to stay alive. This is technically true, and will result in you awkwardly standing between points accomplishing nothing for most of be game, hoping that nobody notices you slowly bleeding out in the corner.
I’m waiting for that 1v1 to happen. It would be fun to see Phokus put his money where is mouth is.
Kiss the chaos.
I’m waiting for that 1v1 to happen. It would be fun to see Phokus put his money where is mouth is.
Ahh, this reminds me of the good old days when I cared enough about this game to force people to put up or shut up.
I’m waiting for that 1v1 to happen. It would be fun to see Phokus put his money where is mouth is.
Ahh, this reminds me of the good old days when I cared enough about this game to force people to put up or shut up.
I remember this one time, probably 2 years ago, when this one engineer came to your phantasm dueling build thread, claiming that his build could stomp anything and that you were a scrub. You challenged him and beat his bum flat and he came back to the forums crying that you were cheap and that mesmers are op.
Good times.
Kiss the chaos.
Heavily-buffed conditions and a lack of adjustment to removal options have lead a lot of builds into this problem. Only the guardian with the changes to Smite Conditions has really gotten a substantial buff to counteract spam condition play.
Core thief had no mechanism to remove conditions without traiting SA.
Core warrior was largely dependent on CI to do so regularly, but CI got nerfed.
Core guard before the Smite Condition buff was made was struggling despite the light field and whirls due to low health, and often traited SoTF or went meditations with built-in-cleansing and healing to do so and counteract the effects of conditions
Core ranger (and even Druid to an extent) has pretty much always needed WS to cleanse conditions well. HS doesn’t work in the sustained burst/re-application game.
And we have the same problem with mesmer and Inspiration.
Most classes and other trait lines could use some condition-cleansing love. Though a nerf to some of the condition builds is also reasonable considering what we’re seeing in terms of competitive play.
Formal Thief Elite Spec proposal:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/ES-Suggestion-The-Deadeye-FORMAL/
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/ES-Suggestion-The-Deadeye-FORMAL/
Let’s try to keep the thread on topic…
Ways to make condition removal more accessible for Mesmers?
Is it necessary to do such?
Should it be a natural counter to Mesmer?
Is this really a Mesmer-issue or a “meta”-issue?
What decisions should be made for better health of the entire game instead of just Mesmer?
https://www.twitch.tv/thatcho
“The jealous are troublesome to others, but certainly a torment to themselves.”
“The jealous are troublesome to others, but certainly a torment to themselves.”
I’m waiting for that 1v1 to happen. It would be fun to see Phokus put his money where is mouth is.
Ahh, this reminds me of the good old days when I cared enough about this game to force people to put up or shut up.
I remember this one time, probably 2 years ago, when this one engineer came to your phantasm dueling build thread, claiming that his build could stomp anything and that you were a scrub. You challenged him and beat his bum flat and he came back to the forums crying that you were cheap and that mesmers are op.
Good times.
Phantasm build such skill such viability.
Kappa
Yaniam [Mesmer]
^ Usually only characer that i play on
^ Usually only characer that i play on
I’m waiting for that 1v1 to happen. It would be fun to see Phokus put his money where is mouth is.
Ahh, this reminds me of the good old days when I cared enough about this game to force people to put up or shut up.
I remember this one time, probably 2 years ago, when this one engineer came to your phantasm dueling build thread, claiming that his build could stomp anything and that you were a scrub. You challenged him and beat his bum flat and he came back to the forums crying that you were cheap and that mesmers are op.
Good times.
Phantasm build such skill such viability.
Kappa
It was advertised as a 1v1 dueling build with literally zero application outside of that. I was and am fully aware of the mechanics of this game, and had zero illusions about where phantasms are and are not capable.
I’m waiting for that 1v1 to happen. It would be fun to see Phokus put his money where is mouth is.
Ahh, this reminds me of the good old days when I cared enough about this game to force people to put up or shut up.
I remember this one time, probably 2 years ago, when this one engineer came to your phantasm dueling build thread, claiming that his build could stomp anything and that you were a scrub. You challenged him and beat his bum flat and he came back to the forums crying that you were cheap and that mesmers are op.
Good times.
Phantasm build such skill such viability.
Kappa
It was advertised as a 1v1 dueling build with literally zero application outside of that. I was and am fully aware of the mechanics of this game, and had zero illusions about where phantasms are and are not capable.
Yeah i understand hence the kappa :p
Yaniam [Mesmer]
^ Usually only characer that i play on
^ Usually only characer that i play on
Will never happen:
Make condi removal on shatters base line, buff restorative illusions to keep the trait and line appealing.
-Power focused builds can take their choice pick of sorely needed damage line without needing to hard read every off handed blindsided condi (you know like everyone else)
-Defensive builds get a buff without being broken, and can even slot illusions to make up for alacrity changes and not be kitten by c/ds (you know like everyone else! That isn’t medi guard)
-Condi wouldn’t need to be held hostage by two lines. (I don’t actually know if this is like every other condi line but I don’t see why diversity is a bad thing)
-would still be balanced within the current meta
Lol
“I control time and space; you can’t break free.~”
“Maybe I was the illusion all along!”
“Maybe I was the illusion all along!”
Seven clears on a mesmer isn’t enough, build smart, not just for DPS and your set
Seven clears on a mesmer isn’t enough, build smart, not just for DPS and your set
Did you read my post?
Please show me a viable build for tourneys
Champion Illusionist Champion Hunter Champion Phantom Champion Magus
Run the removes on shatter …… Trait for it, for even more can use the
with torch traited as well, you cant still go crits / hybrid/ condi I really don’t see a problem utils you can still have portal blink, decoy, mass or grav well, read the traits lines and build round them
Run the removes on shatter …… Trait for it, for even more can use the
with torch traited as well, you cant still go crits / hybrid/ condi I really don’t see a problem utils you can still have portal blink, decoy, mass or grav well, read the traits lines and build round them
This is exactly the point of my post. you HAVE to trait into inspiration (condition clears on shatter)
Champion Illusionist Champion Hunter Champion Phantom Champion Magus
Yes but you are looking at 1 trait not the whole line, as for that trait its op
Inspiration illusions chrono, with hybrid = hold a point against 2 – 3, its kitten good, you can go crits too sheild with domination, that line gives so much sustain its bonkers, so you can go glassy as hell for the DPS and still have portal on utils
Inspiration illusions chrono, with hybrid = hold a point against 2 – 3, its kitten good, you can go crits too sheild with domination, that line gives so much sustain its bonkers, so you can go glassy as hell for the DPS and still have portal on utils
You can’t hold a point against 2-3 people unless they’re absolutely awful. While “glassy as hell” too? Have you even tried any of the things you’re talking about?
Do it every day, maybe your just a bad mesmer? I don’t have a problem holding 2-3 people, I guess you don’t manipulate your cool downs and hammer every thing at the same time? Don’t try and plant your awful mesmer play style on other people, really I use pretty much the same build for every thing, why because it works,
i dont know how can you hold a point 1v2 or 1v3. sure i can sustain but i will loos the point unless they are really bad players. try to hold it versus necro engi and rev . you cant.
regarding the topic
i think mesmer is in a good spot regarding cleanse. you have torch with trait (which may be buff for 2 condi cleanse and not 1 on each skill)
we have null field which if done right can ruin necro burst from RS skills as he puts mainly poison in RS and nothing else. and mantra which is clancky but ok
insp line is great support line with healing, cleanse, res faster, defender resistance so sure without the trait line you losing much support.
so the question what do we get from other trait line . dueling doest bring much to the table beside blind
domination more cc and little bit dmg but stability may ruin your day.
if we had more power so we can do more pressure in a short time we might if you remember play without cleanse like power shatter used to be.
atm only necro bring condi bomb and nothing else so i dont think we need more condi cleanse with our weapons and even if we did it still would have been 1-2 cleanse with staff #4 maybe and nothing more
Do it every day, maybe your just a bad mesmer? I don’t have a problem holding 2-3 people, I guess you don’t manipulate your cool downs and hammer every thing at the same time? Don’t try and plant your awful mesmer play style on other people, really I use pretty much the same build for every thing, why because it works,
Woooah der buddy.
Do it every day, maybe your just a bad mesmer? I don’t have a problem holding 2-3 people, I guess you don’t manipulate your cool downs and hammer every thing at the same time? Don’t try and plant your awful mesmer play style on other people, really I use pretty much the same build for every thing, why because it works,
Clearly you are a far superior Mesmer player than the rest of us, obviously eclipsing even folks like Helseth or supcutie in your preeminent mastery of the Mesmer class.
Oh Great One! We beg of you, please deign to bestow upon us a video of your exceptional exploits so that we may properly bask in the glory of your play!
Do it every day, maybe your just a bad mesmer? I don’t have a problem holding 2-3 people, I guess you don’t manipulate your cool downs and hammer every thing at the same time? Don’t try and plant your awful mesmer play style on other people, really I use pretty much the same build for every thing, why because it works,
looooooooool
Do it every day, maybe your just a bad mesmer? I don’t have a problem holding 2-3 people, I guess you don’t manipulate your cool downs and hammer every thing at the same time? Don’t try and plant your awful mesmer play style on other people, really I use pretty much the same build for every thing, why because it works,
Attachments:
Hailsec – Asuran Mesmer | EVOS
Zraiyya – Asuran Elementalist | EVOS
Akkodi – Asuran Engineer | EVOS
Zraiyya – Asuran Elementalist | EVOS
Akkodi – Asuran Engineer | EVOS
Please show me a viable build for tourneys
Like in sPvP tournaments? Play a better game mode or if you’re genuinely into 5v5 PvP, play a game centered around that mode, like a MOBA.
This isn’t meant as bashing, but really, for smallscape PVP, there’s entirely specialized games out there.
The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.
Please show me a viable build for tourneys
Like in sPvP tournaments? Play a better game mode or if you’re genuinely into 5v5 PvP, play a game centered around that mode, like a MOBA.
This isn’t meant as bashing, but really, for smallscape PVP, there’s entirely specialized games out there.
No offense taken. I think you may have missed my point. I quoted that other bec he is implying we can have a viable tourney build without Inspiration.
So that was the reason I asked.
Champion Illusionist Champion Hunter Champion Phantom Champion Magus
You don’t need condition removal as a mandatory function to make Mesmer work.
Know your enemy first and foremost and learn to disengage when you need to.
This is false. I do not know on what MMR you play at but in High MMR matches, you might as well just afk if you do not have any cleanses.
Knowing your enemy is like 5% of the equation. You will never ever beat any condition class without a cleanse. It’s impossible. (Assuming equal skill)
Every class needs condition removal of atleast 1 source.
What you said makes you sound like a bad player who needs a crutch.
Again, I do not know what MMR you play in, so I am assuming you are facing average players.
And you’re clearly a bad player. Case in point, this thread.
Okay, 1v1 my ranger with no condi cleanse. Let’s bet gold on it. NO condi cleanse means no sigils either.
And please no PU.
I can understand the condition cleanse stipulation. But still the hate on pu???
If it’s a 1v1 why would you need PU? I don’t care much for PU because I love Bountiful Disillusionment too much now over it but if you have to rely on PU to win then you’re as bad a player as phokus claims Stickers is.
This is basically the definition of scrub logic. While stickers is right that you’re not going to see PU in most competitive matches, claiming that a win to PU is a false win is nothing other than creating false win conditions that have nothing to do with the actual game.
Oh yea. Lemme ask you pyro, am I delusional that Condition removal is required in competitive pvp matches?
So in the past, you could play power shatter with minimal/no condition removal. You played it as hit and run with ample stealth; engaging rapidly, bursting rapidly, disengaging rapidly. This worked, mostly. If an engineer or necro or trap ranger or something got the jump on you, you died without any question.
Power Mesmer is not viable in the current meta, and so neither is that tactic. Any sort of condie build has a much longer time period of engagement that they need to be impactful on a fight. This is true for power interrupt builds too, not that they’re viable either. Needing to stay in a fight longer means you can’t just blink away in stealth and nurse yourself back to health every time an engineer sneezes on you.
If you run without any condition removal in this meta, you’ll generally end up dead or dying most fights. You won’t accomplish anything useful outside of adding screen clutter. A single necro mark can incapacitate you for most of a fight without removals. What are you going to do with chill, poison, and weakness on you for 10 seconds? What are you going to do if the necro spends 3 seconds to cast more than 1 mark? What will you do when an engineer walks by and covers a point in condition aoe?
Essentially, taking no condition removal means that you can’t fully engage into any fight. Fighting on any point will be abject suicide, and you’ll be eaten alive by many current builds in a 1v1 scenario. Phokus argues that you can just disengage when necessary to stay alive. This is technically true, and will result in you awkwardly standing between points accomplishing nothing for most of be game, hoping that nobody notices you slowly bleeding out in the corner.
With that said and done, what are your suggestions? Really curious to hear em.
Champion Illusionist Champion Hunter Champion Phantom Champion Magus
i dont know how can you hold a point 1v2 or 1v3. sure i can sustain but i will loos the point unless they are really bad players. try to hold it versus necro engi and rev . you cant.
regarding the topic
i think mesmer is in a good spot regarding cleanse. you have torch with trait (which may be buff for 2 condi cleanse and not 1 on each skill)
we have null field which if done right can ruin necro burst from RS skills as he puts mainly poison in RS and nothing else. and mantra which is clancky but ok
insp line is great support line with healing, cleanse, res faster, defender resistance so sure without the trait line you losing much support.
so the question what do we get from other trait line . dueling doest bring much to the table beside blind
domination more cc and little bit dmg but stability may ruin your day.
if we had more power so we can do more pressure in a short time we might if you remember play without cleanse like power shatter used to be.
atm only necro bring condi bomb and nothing else so i dont think we need more condi cleanse with our weapons and even if we did it still would have been 1-2 cleanse with staff #4 maybe and nothing more
Exactly, for shatter mesmer, the problem isn’t lack of condi remove outside of inspiration, it is that the traitlines no longer give enough power (sometimes also utility) anymore. This is due to nerfs and powercreep. For instance, shattered concentration is insufficient at removing stability now because of the stab spam from rev, scrapper etc.
Yaniam [Mesmer]
^ Usually only characer that i play on
^ Usually only characer that i play on
i dont know how can you hold a point 1v2 or 1v3. sure i can sustain but i will loos the point unless they are really bad players. try to hold it versus necro engi and rev . you cant.
regarding the topic
i think mesmer is in a good spot regarding cleanse. you have torch with trait (which may be buff for 2 condi cleanse and not 1 on each skill)
we have null field which if done right can ruin necro burst from RS skills as he puts mainly poison in RS and nothing else. and mantra which is clancky but ok
insp line is great support line with healing, cleanse, res faster, defender resistance so sure without the trait line you losing much support.
so the question what do we get from other trait line . dueling doest bring much to the table beside blind
domination more cc and little bit dmg but stability may ruin your day.
if we had more power so we can do more pressure in a short time we might if you remember play without cleanse like power shatter used to be.
atm only necro bring condi bomb and nothing else so i dont think we need more condi cleanse with our weapons and even if we did it still would have been 1-2 cleanse with staff #4 maybe and nothing moreExactly, for shatter mesmer, the problem isn’t lack of condi remove outside of inspiration, it is that the traitlines no longer give enough power (sometimes also utility) anymore. This is due to nerfs and powercreep. For instance, shattered concentration is insufficient at removing boons now because of the boon diarrhea from rev, scrappers, eles etc.
Fixed that for you.
Champion Illusionist Champion Hunter Champion Phantom Champion Magus
@stickerhappy yup
Yaniam [Mesmer]
^ Usually only characer that i play on
^ Usually only characer that i play on
You don’t need condition removal as a mandatory function to make Mesmer work.
Know your enemy first and foremost and learn to disengage when you need to.
This is false. I do not know on what MMR you play at but in High MMR matches, you might as well just afk if you do not have any cleanses.
Knowing your enemy is like 5% of the equation. You will never ever beat any condition class without a cleanse. It’s impossible. (Assuming equal skill)
Every class needs condition removal of atleast 1 source.
What you said makes you sound like a bad player who needs a crutch.
Again, I do not know what MMR you play in, so I am assuming you are facing average players.
And you’re clearly a bad player. Case in point, this thread.
Okay, 1v1 my ranger with no condi cleanse. Let’s bet gold on it. NO condi cleanse means no sigils either.
And please no PU.
I can understand the condition cleanse stipulation. But still the hate on pu???
If it’s a 1v1 why would you need PU? I don’t care much for PU because I love Bountiful Disillusionment too much now over it but if you have to rely on PU to win then you’re as bad a player as phokus claims Stickers is.
This is basically the definition of scrub logic. While stickers is right that you’re not going to see PU in most competitive matches, claiming that a win to PU is a false win is nothing other than creating false win conditions that have nothing to do with the actual game.
Oh yea. Lemme ask you pyro, am I delusional that Condition removal is required in competitive pvp matches?
So in the past, you could play power shatter with minimal/no condition removal. You played it as hit and run with ample stealth; engaging rapidly, bursting rapidly, disengaging rapidly. This worked, mostly. If an engineer or necro or trap ranger or something got the jump on you, you died without any question.
Power Mesmer is not viable in the current meta, and so neither is that tactic. Any sort of condie build has a much longer time period of engagement that they need to be impactful on a fight. This is true for power interrupt builds too, not that they’re viable either. Needing to stay in a fight longer means you can’t just blink away in stealth and nurse yourself back to health every time an engineer sneezes on you.
If you run without any condition removal in this meta, you’ll generally end up dead or dying most fights. You won’t accomplish anything useful outside of adding screen clutter. A single necro mark can incapacitate you for most of a fight without removals. What are you going to do with chill, poison, and weakness on you for 10 seconds? What are you going to do if the necro spends 3 seconds to cast more than 1 mark? What will you do when an engineer walks by and covers a point in condition aoe?
Essentially, taking no condition removal means that you can’t fully engage into any fight. Fighting on any point will be abject suicide, and you’ll be eaten alive by many current builds in a 1v1 scenario. Phokus argues that you can just disengage when necessary to stay alive. This is technically true, and will result in you awkwardly standing between points accomplishing nothing for most of be game, hoping that nobody notices you slowly bleeding out in the corner.
With that said and done, what are your suggestions? Really curious to hear em.
I run dueling/ill/chr (mistrust) with the heal well for cleansing (blink, precog, portal) against teams without reapers. I run insp/ill/chr with the heal well and shatters for cleansing vs teams with reapers. Ultimately, you need the removal, so you take insp. It sucks, but you do what you have to.
You don’t need condition removal as a mandatory function to make Mesmer work.
Know your enemy first and foremost and learn to disengage when you need to.
This is false. I do not know on what MMR you play at but in High MMR matches, you might as well just afk if you do not have any cleanses.
Knowing your enemy is like 5% of the equation. You will never ever beat any condition class without a cleanse. It’s impossible. (Assuming equal skill)
Every class needs condition removal of atleast 1 source.
What you said makes you sound like a bad player who needs a crutch.
Again, I do not know what MMR you play in, so I am assuming you are facing average players.
And you’re clearly a bad player. Case in point, this thread.
Okay, 1v1 my ranger with no condi cleanse. Let’s bet gold on it. NO condi cleanse means no sigils either.
And please no PU.
I can understand the condition cleanse stipulation. But still the hate on pu???
If it’s a 1v1 why would you need PU? I don’t care much for PU because I love Bountiful Disillusionment too much now over it but if you have to rely on PU to win then you’re as bad a player as phokus claims Stickers is.
This is basically the definition of scrub logic. While stickers is right that you’re not going to see PU in most competitive matches, claiming that a win to PU is a false win is nothing other than creating false win conditions that have nothing to do with the actual game.
Oh yea. Lemme ask you pyro, am I delusional that Condition removal is required in competitive pvp matches?
So in the past, you could play power shatter with minimal/no condition removal. You played it as hit and run with ample stealth; engaging rapidly, bursting rapidly, disengaging rapidly. This worked, mostly. If an engineer or necro or trap ranger or something got the jump on you, you died without any question.
Power Mesmer is not viable in the current meta, and so neither is that tactic. Any sort of condie build has a much longer time period of engagement that they need to be impactful on a fight. This is true for power interrupt builds too, not that they’re viable either. Needing to stay in a fight longer means you can’t just blink away in stealth and nurse yourself back to health every time an engineer sneezes on you.
If you run without any condition removal in this meta, you’ll generally end up dead or dying most fights. You won’t accomplish anything useful outside of adding screen clutter. A single necro mark can incapacitate you for most of a fight without removals. What are you going to do with chill, poison, and weakness on you for 10 seconds? What are you going to do if the necro spends 3 seconds to cast more than 1 mark? What will you do when an engineer walks by and covers a point in condition aoe?
Essentially, taking no condition removal means that you can’t fully engage into any fight. Fighting on any point will be abject suicide, and you’ll be eaten alive by many current builds in a 1v1 scenario. Phokus argues that you can just disengage when necessary to stay alive. This is technically true, and will result in you awkwardly standing between points accomplishing nothing for most of be game, hoping that nobody notices you slowly bleeding out in the corner.
With that said and done, what are your suggestions? Really curious to hear em.
I run dueling/ill/chr (mistrust) with the heal well for cleansing (blink, precog, portal) against teams without reapers. I run insp/ill/chr with the heal well and shatters for cleansing vs teams with reapers. Ultimately, you need the removal, so you take insp. It sucks, but you do what you have to.
same here if i see team without necro i can run dueling instead of insp. sometime rev can surprise with condi but than i will play safer. but most of the time i play insp just to make sure and also for the heal and defender
You don’t need condition removal as a mandatory function to make Mesmer work.
Know your enemy first and foremost and learn to disengage when you need to.
This is false. I do not know on what MMR you play at but in High MMR matches, you might as well just afk if you do not have any cleanses.
Knowing your enemy is like 5% of the equation. You will never ever beat any condition class without a cleanse. It’s impossible. (Assuming equal skill)
Every class needs condition removal of atleast 1 source.
What you said makes you sound like a bad player who needs a crutch.
Again, I do not know what MMR you play in, so I am assuming you are facing average players.
And you’re clearly a bad player. Case in point, this thread.
Okay, 1v1 my ranger with no condi cleanse. Let’s bet gold on it. NO condi cleanse means no sigils either.
And please no PU.
I can understand the condition cleanse stipulation. But still the hate on pu???
If it’s a 1v1 why would you need PU? I don’t care much for PU because I love Bountiful Disillusionment too much now over it but if you have to rely on PU to win then you’re as bad a player as phokus claims Stickers is.
This is basically the definition of scrub logic. While stickers is right that you’re not going to see PU in most competitive matches, claiming that a win to PU is a false win is nothing other than creating false win conditions that have nothing to do with the actual game.
Oh yea. Lemme ask you pyro, am I delusional that Condition removal is required in competitive pvp matches?
So in the past, you could play power shatter with minimal/no condition removal. You played it as hit and run with ample stealth; engaging rapidly, bursting rapidly, disengaging rapidly. This worked, mostly. If an engineer or necro or trap ranger or something got the jump on you, you died without any question.
Power Mesmer is not viable in the current meta, and so neither is that tactic. Any sort of condie build has a much longer time period of engagement that they need to be impactful on a fight. This is true for power interrupt builds too, not that they’re viable either. Needing to stay in a fight longer means you can’t just blink away in stealth and nurse yourself back to health every time an engineer sneezes on you.
If you run without any condition removal in this meta, you’ll generally end up dead or dying most fights. You won’t accomplish anything useful outside of adding screen clutter. A single necro mark can incapacitate you for most of a fight without removals. What are you going to do with chill, poison, and weakness on you for 10 seconds? What are you going to do if the necro spends 3 seconds to cast more than 1 mark? What will you do when an engineer walks by and covers a point in condition aoe?
Essentially, taking no condition removal means that you can’t fully engage into any fight. Fighting on any point will be abject suicide, and you’ll be eaten alive by many current builds in a 1v1 scenario. Phokus argues that you can just disengage when necessary to stay alive. This is technically true, and will result in you awkwardly standing between points accomplishing nothing for most of be game, hoping that nobody notices you slowly bleeding out in the corner.
With that said and done, what are your suggestions? Really curious to hear em.
I run dueling/ill/chr (mistrust) with the heal well for cleansing (blink, precog, portal) against teams without reapers. I run insp/ill/chr with the heal well and shatters for cleansing vs teams with reapers. Ultimately, you need the removal, so you take insp. It sucks, but you do what you have to.
Which exactly is the problem, a lot of Mesmer potential is lost via traitline combinations bec ultimately you have to take Inspiration.
But don’t get me wrong, several classes also fall into that 1 required traitline scenario.
Champion Illusionist Champion Hunter Champion Phantom Champion Magus
You don’t need condition removal as a mandatory function to make Mesmer work.
Know your enemy first and foremost and learn to disengage when you need to.
This is false. I do not know on what MMR you play at but in High MMR matches, you might as well just afk if you do not have any cleanses.
Knowing your enemy is like 5% of the equation. You will never ever beat any condition class without a cleanse. It’s impossible. (Assuming equal skill)
Every class needs condition removal of atleast 1 source.
What you said makes you sound like a bad player who needs a crutch.
Again, I do not know what MMR you play in, so I am assuming you are facing average players.
And you’re clearly a bad player. Case in point, this thread.
Okay, 1v1 my ranger with no condi cleanse. Let’s bet gold on it. NO condi cleanse means no sigils either.
And please no PU.
I can understand the condition cleanse stipulation. But still the hate on pu???
If it’s a 1v1 why would you need PU? I don’t care much for PU because I love Bountiful Disillusionment too much now over it but if you have to rely on PU to win then you’re as bad a player as phokus claims Stickers is.
This is basically the definition of scrub logic. While stickers is right that you’re not going to see PU in most competitive matches, claiming that a win to PU is a false win is nothing other than creating false win conditions that have nothing to do with the actual game.
Oh yea. Lemme ask you pyro, am I delusional that Condition removal is required in competitive pvp matches?
So in the past, you could play power shatter with minimal/no condition removal. You played it as hit and run with ample stealth; engaging rapidly, bursting rapidly, disengaging rapidly. This worked, mostly. If an engineer or necro or trap ranger or something got the jump on you, you died without any question.
Power Mesmer is not viable in the current meta, and so neither is that tactic. Any sort of condie build has a much longer time period of engagement that they need to be impactful on a fight. This is true for power interrupt builds too, not that they’re viable either. Needing to stay in a fight longer means you can’t just blink away in stealth and nurse yourself back to health every time an engineer sneezes on you.
If you run without any condition removal in this meta, you’ll generally end up dead or dying most fights. You won’t accomplish anything useful outside of adding screen clutter. A single necro mark can incapacitate you for most of a fight without removals. What are you going to do with chill, poison, and weakness on you for 10 seconds? What are you going to do if the necro spends 3 seconds to cast more than 1 mark? What will you do when an engineer walks by and covers a point in condition aoe?
Essentially, taking no condition removal means that you can’t fully engage into any fight. Fighting on any point will be abject suicide, and you’ll be eaten alive by many current builds in a 1v1 scenario. Phokus argues that you can just disengage when necessary to stay alive. This is technically true, and will result in you awkwardly standing between points accomplishing nothing for most of be game, hoping that nobody notices you slowly bleeding out in the corner.
With that said and done, what are your suggestions? Really curious to hear em.
I run dueling/ill/chr (mistrust) with the heal well for cleansing (blink, precog, portal) against teams without reapers. I run insp/ill/chr with the heal well and shatters for cleansing vs teams with reapers. Ultimately, you need the removal, so you take insp. It sucks, but you do what you have to.
Which exactly is the problem, a lot of Mesmer potential is lost via traitline combinations bec ultimately you have to take Inspiration.
But don’t get me wrong, several classes also fall into that 1 required traitline scenario.
But you know Stickers this is pretty much the same problem we had before HoT just slightly different. You couldn’t run a shatter build without full investment to get IP, which only left you 8 points to go else where. And taking IP meant no MtD, but taking MtD was like hamstring in yourself because you couldn’t self shatter.
Now IP is baseline but we can only go into 3 trait lines and our condi clear is no better than it was before, just needed more.
Basically the full potential of Mesmer lies within its traits, possibly more so than other classes, but because of game design we tend to be constantly limited to whatever Anet decides we can have. Of course, other classes have the same problem, but I don’t think it’s as bad. Could be. Dunno
Sachyi Asuna. A [KING]’s Mesmer Unified Kingdom
I run dueling/ill/chr (mistrust) with the heal well for cleansing (blink, precog, portal) against teams without reapers. I run insp/ill/chr with the heal well and shatters for cleansing vs teams with reapers. Ultimately, you need the removal, so you take insp. It sucks, but you do what you have to.
In this build have you tried running cleanse mantra with the heal well (would have to ditch precog ofc)? I’ve found it to be decently effective in most circumstances with a non-insp build, even with reapers on the other team. Adding a -% duration rune can also help.
Kortham Raysplitter (Yak’s Bend)
I run dueling/ill/chr (mistrust) with the heal well for cleansing (blink, precog, portal) against teams without reapers. I run insp/ill/chr with the heal well and shatters for cleansing vs teams with reapers. Ultimately, you need the removal, so you take insp. It sucks, but you do what you have to.
In this build have you tried running cleanse mantra with the heal well (would have to ditch precog ofc)? I’ve found it to be decently effective in most circumstances with a non-insp build, even with reapers on the other team. Adding a -% duration rune can also help.
heal well has longer cd so you would cleanse 1 condi every 30 sec versus getting healed more every 20 sec.
even when i run with insp i saw i hardly being condi bomb versus necro in team fight and also 1v1 cause of the pressure if the combo gets right F3 shield 5. if in trouble i just LOS while my clones pressure a bit
null field is better versus necro i think as it can shut down thier RS poison bomb and while standing in it torment wont do much dmg.
I run dueling/ill/chr (mistrust) with the heal well for cleansing (blink, precog, portal) against teams without reapers. I run insp/ill/chr with the heal well and shatters for cleansing vs teams with reapers. Ultimately, you need the removal, so you take insp. It sucks, but you do what you have to.
In this build have you tried running cleanse mantra with the heal well (would have to ditch precog ofc)? I’ve found it to be decently effective in most circumstances with a non-insp build, even with reapers on the other team. Adding a -% duration rune can also help.
heal well has longer cd so you would cleanse 1 condi every 30 sec versus getting healed more every 20 sec.
even when i run with insp i saw i hardly being condi bomb versus necro in team fight and also 1v1 cause of the pressure if the combo gets right F3 shield 5. if in trouble i just LOS while my clones pressure a bit
null field is better versus necro i think as it can shut down thier RS poison bomb and while standing in it torment wont do much dmg.
Yeah, personally when I run the mistrust variant I run ether feast + cleanse mantra. He just mentioned heal well so I addressed the question that way.
I’m also a big fan of null field but only if I have another source of condition removal handy (like heal well for example). Just depends on the build.
Kortham Raysplitter (Yak’s Bend)
Do it every day, maybe your just a bad mesmer? I don’t have a problem holding 2-3 people, I guess you don’t manipulate your cool downs and hammer every thing at the same time? Don’t try and plant your awful mesmer play style on other people, really I use pretty much the same build for every thing, why because it works,
Can we just pause and admire how hilarious this is? Please?
I honestly giggled like a schoolgirl when I read this.
Kiss the chaos.
You don’t need condition removal as a mandatory function to make Mesmer work.
Know your enemy first and foremost and learn to disengage when you need to.
This is false. I do not know on what MMR you play at but in High MMR matches, you might as well just afk if you do not have any cleanses.
Knowing your enemy is like 5% of the equation. You will never ever beat any condition class without a cleanse. It’s impossible. (Assuming equal skill)
Every class needs condition removal of atleast 1 source.
What you said makes you sound like a bad player who needs a crutch.
Again, I do not know what MMR you play in, so I am assuming you are facing average players.
And you’re clearly a bad player. Case in point, this thread.
Okay, 1v1 my ranger with no condi cleanse. Let’s bet gold on it. NO condi cleanse means no sigils either.
And please no PU.
I can understand the condition cleanse stipulation. But still the hate on pu???
If it’s a 1v1 why would you need PU? I don’t care much for PU because I love Bountiful Disillusionment too much now over it but if you have to rely on PU to win then you’re as bad a player as phokus claims Stickers is.
This is basically the definition of scrub logic. While stickers is right that you’re not going to see PU in most competitive matches, claiming that a win to PU is a false win is nothing other than creating false win conditions that have nothing to do with the actual game.
Oh yea. Lemme ask you pyro, am I delusional that Condition removal is required in competitive pvp matches?
So in the past, you could play power shatter with minimal/no condition removal. You played it as hit and run with ample stealth; engaging rapidly, bursting rapidly, disengaging rapidly. This worked, mostly. If an engineer or necro or trap ranger or something got the jump on you, you died without any question.
Power Mesmer is not viable in the current meta, and so neither is that tactic. Any sort of condie build has a much longer time period of engagement that they need to be impactful on a fight. This is true for power interrupt builds too, not that they’re viable either. Needing to stay in a fight longer means you can’t just blink away in stealth and nurse yourself back to health every time an engineer sneezes on you.
If you run without any condition removal in this meta, you’ll generally end up dead or dying most fights. You won’t accomplish anything useful outside of adding screen clutter. A single necro mark can incapacitate you for most of a fight without removals. What are you going to do with chill, poison, and weakness on you for 10 seconds? What are you going to do if the necro spends 3 seconds to cast more than 1 mark? What will you do when an engineer walks by and covers a point in condition aoe?
Essentially, taking no condition removal means that you can’t fully engage into any fight. Fighting on any point will be abject suicide, and you’ll be eaten alive by many current builds in a 1v1 scenario. Phokus argues that you can just disengage when necessary to stay alive. This is technically true, and will result in you awkwardly standing between points accomplishing nothing for most of be game, hoping that nobody notices you slowly bleeding out in the corner.
With that said and done, what are your suggestions? Really curious to hear em.
I run dueling/ill/chr (mistrust) with the heal well for cleansing (blink, precog, portal) against teams without reapers. I run insp/ill/chr with the heal well and shatters for cleansing vs teams with reapers. Ultimately, you need the removal, so you take insp. It sucks, but you do what you have to.
Which exactly is the problem, a lot of Mesmer potential is lost via traitline combinations bec ultimately you have to take Inspiration.
But don’t get me wrong, several classes also fall into that 1 required traitline scenario.
But you know Stickers this is pretty much the same problem we had before HoT just slightly different. You couldn’t run a shatter build without full investment to get IP, which only left you 8 points to go else where. And taking IP meant no MtD, but taking MtD was like hamstring in yourself because you couldn’t self shatter.
Now IP is baseline but we can only go into 3 trait lines and our condi clear is no better than it was before, just needed more.
Basically the full potential of Mesmer lies within its traits, possibly more so than other classes, but because of game design we tend to be constantly limited to whatever Anet decides we can have. Of course, other classes have the same problem, but I don’t think it’s as bad. Could be. Dunno
I completely agree. But you are missing the most important point.
Condition spamming is worse now compared to that of Vanilla Shatter mesmer times
Before you can run without cleanse or Run lyssa (post patch) and it will be okay, now the condition spamming is super braindead.
Champion Illusionist Champion Hunter Champion Phantom Champion Magus
No I understand that completely. The point I was trying to make was before we were limited due to non baseline IP and having to have DE.
Post HoT was better with Chrono with loads of build variety until Anet nerfed everything and made condi spam meta. Now in this meta we are restricted to building around our cleanse, which in most cases is Inspiration.
This, therefore is limiting our build variety by forcing us into specific traits. Sure you can run whatever floats your boat, but will it be viable in tourney play? Doubtful.
It boils down to the fact that no one wants Mesmer to be anything other than a noob killer. And it’s good at that but with so much potential to be more. But do devs want that? Nope and it’s obvious. Making a condi meta is just one way to keep Mesmer down.
Sachyi Asuna. A [KING]’s Mesmer Unified Kingdom
No I understand that completely. The point I was trying to make was before we were limited due to non baseline IP and having to have DE.
Post HoT was better with Chrono with loads of build variety until Anet nerfed everything and made condi spam meta. Now in this meta we are restricted to building around our cleanse, which in most cases is Inspiration.
This, therefore is limiting our build variety by forcing us into specific traits. Sure you can run whatever floats your boat, but will it be viable in tourney play? Doubtful.It boils down to the fact that no one wants Mesmer to be anything other than a noob killer. And it’s good at that but with so much potential to be more. But do devs want that? Nope and it’s obvious. Making a condi meta is just one way to keep Mesmer down.
Not just mesmer. Druids have poor condi cleanse unless you take Wilderness Survival, Which eventually kills your pet. Glyph condi removal is horrid, so you are only left with Druidic Clarity when you enter AF (which after that, foes can now start to bomb you)
The thing is, IF mesmer had like mechanics that have condition clear it would be a little more feasible running without cleanse.
Again I’ll use this example again. Ele Earth focus 4 removes 3 conditions (Untraited). While Torch Removes 0 (only 2 if traited) Even without Diamond skin, Condition removal is a no brainer.
Another example, Ele’s Water Traitline also has condition Removal. 3 Traits in fact. Now the ele can either Run Water OR Earth. Fire Also Has condition Removal.
Champion Illusionist Champion Hunter Champion Phantom Champion Magus
(edited by StickerHappy.8052)