Mesmer GS vs Staff
Staff. Most of the time, I’m melee and/or in melee range. I play as a PvE with a tad of PvP Mesmer wielding Dual Swords —> Staff, so the Staff is my defensive tool and lets me escape or survive depending on what I need. It’s worse at chasing, sure, but I shouldn’t really need to chase if I play my cards right. If I play my cards wrong, well you’re in a sticky situation regardless of your weapon choices.
Additionally, GS has the most utility at long range. While a lot of people like to use it for its’ massive dps, it doesn’t really compare to a Staff when mixed with Swords as the GS is made for long-range battles and disengaging close range. What part of that works well with a melee weapon?
Personally prefer GS. I love Chaos storm, too. But it doesn’t do as much as I need it to to be effective. And the rest of the skills aren’t worth as much as the GS skills. Throwing down a feedback and throwing Mirror Blade through it will cause Confusion, give you might, and cause Vaulnerability. Followed by I’Zerker for heavy burst dmg and cripple, and finishing them off with Mind Stab. If they are still alive (Stubborn mobs/Vets/Champs). Switch to Sw/F, drop I’Warden and smack them a few times with #2. Quick, easy, powerful. Much faster than what I could do with a Staff. And by the looks of things walking around. Most other Mesmers have the same opinion, as I run into more using GS + Sw/F than Staffs.
why not both? GS is offensive, Staff is defensive.
I cannot tell which weapon is best because I find a good reason to use them all (yeah, even scepter and torch) depending on the situation. At the moment I run:
WvW: GS+S/F
Dungeon/fractals with big rooms: Staff+GS
Dungeon/fractals with tiny rooms: Scepter/Pistol/Focus+Staff
PVE Exploration: GS+S/P/F/T
PVE Events: Staff+GS
… So I find a debate “A vs B” not relevant. It would be better to ask: In such situation (describe) which weapons choice is appropriate?
I just forgot to actually read the OP … Well for PVE solo GS is best IMO because of the fast 6xMight buff -> powerful shatters and frenzy. Staff takes too much time to kill a single weak target and the buffing phase (might and fury) isn’t fast enough.
(edited by Animando.7956)
if you are using berserker gear then you want to use gs/sword/focus(or pistol).
Staff and wand are condition oriented. Well the wand you can still go full berserker and it will do good dmg but ive always seen wand as a second set item.
In open world pve the berserker route will be much easier and faster then trying to “bleed” out foes with conditions. In dungeons that might change more to the favor of the condition set though.
Even if you do go with staff and +condition dmg gear try to use a set the has precision aswell so your illusions can still inflict bleed stacks with that one trait.
I really love the Staff. I use the passive that your Illusions inflict bleeding on their crits and the staff can set up some illusions pretty fast. Also you are able to escape often, so you are able to solo even harder bosses. It brings a lot of utility with it. Also the damage of the GS doesn’t look better for me to be honest.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spatial_Surge
201-348 dmg every 1.5 sec
= DpS of 134-232
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Winds_of_Chaos
111 basic dmg + 33% of 328 burning + 33% of 298 bleeding = 320 dmg every 0.75 sec
= DpS of 426
The problem with this calculation is, i made it without Power / Con. Dmg.. I sadly do not know how it affects everything. But since Winds of Chaos also may bounce to another enemy or to you to increase your power even more, i really think it deals more damage.
I’m not that expirienced, ready to get teached.
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I switched to GS after the Karka event because Staff doesn’t have enough dps to register kill counts in group events which lead to less loot drop.
Lets get something out of the way first. For a power based build, GS and sword do considerably more damage then any other weapons we can use, with sword slightly ahead of GS depending on your offhand (i.e. not torch, which is for utility and not DPS) at the cost of being close to the enemy.
What staff offers, is defence. As such, if you want to be optimal, you should only use staff as one of your weapons when you’re having trouble surviving with only your utilities, dodges, interrupts and distortion.
I myself used the staff as a secondary to sword/pistol all the way through beta (staff actually did out DPS GS then due to slower animations on spatial surge) and up to when I was about lvl 60 on live but now I run almost exclusively with both sword and GS.
For condition damage, things get more interesting. There are two big problem with mesmers and conditions in PvE. The first is that, between kiting and the naturally slow attack speed on mobs, confusion isn’t that great. The second is that we ourselves have no real ability to maintain large stacks of conditions like sceptre necros, sword warriors, grenade engineers ect. Staff 1 is our only non-confusion spamable condition attack and its both slow and doesn’t do condition damage 1/3 of the time. This means that the only real way to apply conditions is through the Sharper images trait and clones.
This is when it gets interesting. The staff clones already apply a condition but the attack rate in very slow, while GS clones attack very fast and hit multiple times per attack. This means that GS clones will proc sharper images much more then staff clones, so after a certain amount of precision (which is easily achievable with lvl80 exotics) GS clones will do more condition damage then staff clones. The GS phantasm also hits more times then the staff one. As such, while I haven’t run the numbers myself I’d guess that GS also does more damage then staff in a condition build.
I really love the Staff. I use the passive that your Illusions inflict bleeding on their crits and the staff can set up some illusions pretty fast. Also you are able to escape often, so you are able to solo even harder bosses. It brings a lot of utility with it. Also the damage of the GS doesn’t look better for me to be honest.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spatial_Surge
201-348 dmg every 1.5 sec
= DpS of 134-232http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Winds_of_Chaos
111 basic dmg + 33% of 328 burning + 33% of 298 bleeding = 320 dmg every 0.75 sec
= DpS of 426The problem with this calculation is, i made it without Power / Con. Dmg.. I sadly do not know how it affects everything. But since Winds of Chaos also may bounce to another enemy or to you to increase your power even more, i really think it deals more damage.
I’m not that expirienced, ready to get teached.
Unfortunately there are a few problems with this. Firstly both the wiki and the in game tooltips are often incorrect, with many of them accounting for some factors but not others. Secondly, power, precision, crit, and malice is unfortunately vital as different abilities/conditions use different percentages of your power/condition damage. Power based attacks can also crit, which means that both your precision and crit damage also increase the attack damage.
For example, your calculations gave the GS an average of 183 DPS, but when you factor in a 40% crit chance and 70% crit damage (easily achievable in exotics) it now has 183*(10.4*2.3)=351.36 DPS.
Finally, a good chunk of the GS’s damage comes from mirror blade, mind stab and its phantasm while the staff also gets a large portion of its damage from its phantasm. If you want to accurately compare DPS for the weapons you need to account for all its abilities, and hence the cast times, rotations traits ect.
This is not an easy game to theorycraft in but If you’re keen to do so I’d highly recommend doing tests in the mists instead of relying on the wiki. Anyway, good luck.
(edited by Teloran.1594)
Regarding GS Clones vs Staff Clones in a condition build: first, Staff Clones can inflict Burning, which does more damage than Sharper Images Bleeding and is practically instant. Second, Staff Clones also stack Might and Fury on you: because Clone stats are based on your stats, this transfers over to Clones, giving Staff Clones higher condition damage and 20% higher crit chance than GS Clones.
Also, taking the Illusionary Elasticity trait allows your own Winds of Chaos to doubletap, i.e. doubling its output against a single target. Overall, you definitely want to go with the Staff in a condition build.
I seccond Embolism, also not to mention a staff give unbeatebal incombat manuver and keep you alive. You do more dmg alive
/Osicat
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Guide-WvWvW-Pve-Shatter-Cat/
Regarding GS Clones vs Staff Clones in a condition build: first, Staff Clones can inflict Burning, which does more damage than Sharper Images Bleeding and is practically instant. Second, Staff Clones also stack Might and Fury on you: because Clone stats are based on your stats, this transfers over to Clones, giving Staff Clones higher condition damage and 20% higher crit chance than GS Clones.
Also, taking the Illusionary Elasticity trait allows your own Winds of Chaos to doubletap, i.e. doubling its output against a single target. Overall, you definitely want to go with the Staff in a condition build.
The fury is a good point but GS can give you quite a bit of might with mirror blade. Also, Illusionary Elasticity does not effect staff clones so you’d only get one extra condition/boon from yourself. Also, while the burning may do its damage quickly, it doesn’t scale as well from condition damage as bleeding so at some point the bleed will backload more damage then burning.
Despite this you may still be right in that staff is a better condition weapon then the GS but I’ll reserve my judgement until I get time to test it.
Another note: If you choose to use power/prec/cond gear instead of cond/prec/tough gear like many pure condition build do, the GS’s and the iWarlock’s direct damage will still be quite high while maintaining decent condition damage.
Edit: @ Osicat. I agree on the survivability. No mesmer weapon beats staff on survivability.
Edit #2: Not 100% sure about the bleed vs burning part I remember hearing it somewhere but I’m too tired to double check. Please correct me if I’m wrong.
(edited by Teloran.1594)