Guild Wars 2

Ok so, I was wondering which does more damage? Now for the sword offhand, it doesn’t matter, just whatever does more damage. I know that they both have good damage, but I’m wondering which one has more. I understand that the GS isn’t good so close up either, but I just want to know.

I’m going to be commanding in WvW and although, I do know it’s not optimal to go DPS, I just want to know which does more damage for my build ; GS or sword + whatever offhand.

Thanks

In terms of autoattack Sword is miles ahead, but GS is the best ranged option and has more, better controllable burst damage. GS is also extremely good for proccing sigils (and retal…)

Also, last I heard Mantra of Pain was a dps increase over pure GS autoattack, so if you have Restorative Mantras traited you might want to spam that instead.

Ah ok, but I mean in like general terms, not just auto attacks, like the weapon overall, which has the greater DPS? I know one is ranged and one is not, but which does more damage overall

StormHawk.9862:

Ah ok, but I mean in like general terms, not just auto attacks, like the weapon overall, which has the greater DPS? I know one is ranged and one is not, but which does more damage overall

You’re comparing apples and oranges. Are you at 1200 range? The gs does more damage…since the sword is a melee weapon. Are you at melee range? The sword does far more damage.

Fay.2357:

StormHawk.9862:

Ah ok, but I mean in like general terms, not just auto attacks, like the weapon overall, which has the greater DPS? I know one is ranged and one is not, but which does more damage overall

You’re comparing apples and oranges. Are you at 1200 range? The gs does more damage…since the sword is a melee weapon. Are you at melee range? The sword does far more damage.

Yeah, I mean which is at a higher DPS when a GS is at max range and a sword is at sword range…pretty common sense, though…

Melee weapons always outdamage ranged weapons with the rare exception of the elementalist’s staff.

Zenith.7301:

Melee weapons always outdamage ranged weapons with the rare exception of the elementalist’s staff.

Oh really? oh, cause like i’m noticing the GS has more burst spikes of damage then the sword/offhand? :l

Fay.2357:

You’re comparing apples and oranges. Are you at 1200 range? The gs does more damage…since the sword is a melee weapon. Are you at melee range? The sword does far more damage.

Actually, how does pure MoP spam fare vs. pure GS auto at non-melee ranges?

The tagging/AoE burst capability of GS will probably earn it a slot in the end, especially since iZerker can hit several people without inflicting any retal damage on ourselves.

Photoloss.4817:

Fay.2357:

You’re comparing apples and oranges. Are you at 1200 range? The gs does more damage…since the sword is a melee weapon. Are you at melee range? The sword does far more damage.

Actually, how does pure MoP spam fare vs. pure GS auto at non-melee ranges?

The tagging/AoE burst capability of GS will probably earn it a slot in the end, especially since iZerker can hit several people without inflicting any retal damage on ourselves.

3-tap MoP will outdamage the gs auto even at max range, iirc. That being said…MoP requires a clunky recharging time that does not play nice with mobility in a WvW group.

Um so… in other words sword does outright more damage than gs at max range?

StormHawk.9862:

Um so… in other words sword does outright more damage than gs at max range?

Sword is significantly higher dps at close range than gs does at max range.

StormHawk.9862:

Zenith.7301:

Melee weapons always outdamage ranged weapons with the rare exception of the elementalist’s staff.

Oh really? oh, cause like i’m noticing the GS has more burst spikes of damage then the sword/offhand? :l

Only in a 1v1 scenario where you can have it bounce on the same target several times. And burst/spike is not the same as doing x damage over y time period.

That greatsword also is not cleaving anywhere as well, and it requires a target so when your targets stealth you can’t track them with your auto chain.

Basically greatsword is only really used in pvp, and mostly because of the spike in 1v1 and the fact mesmer is not a particularly good frontline profession.

Zenith.7301:

That greatsword also is not cleaving anywhere as well, and it requires a target so when your targets stealth you can’t track them with your auto chain.

Greatsword beam can pierce through several targets. It’s more work than melee cleave but it’s not hard to set up, most times. Not being able to attack folks who enter stealth is a weakness, yes, though you can use Mirror Blade, Mind Stab, and Illusionary Wave to offset that partially.

Zenith.7301:

Basically greatsword is only really used in pvp, and mostly because of the spike in 1v1 and the fact mesmer is not a particularly good frontline profession.

Greatsword is a perfectly fine for most PvE stuff, too. It’s not an ideal weapon for coordinated stacking dungeon teams, but it’s quite handy for open-world stuff, world bosses, storyline missions, &c. There are lots of circumstances where you can’t stand right on top of a boss and just go at them with a Sword forever.

You can melee any world boss. I melee even the entirety of all the Vinewrath events with mobs that are “anti-berk melee”.

Greatsword is only really much of a thing on Tequatl, that’s about it.

StormHawk.9862:

I’m going to be commanding in WvW and although, I do know it’s not optimal to go DPS, I just want to know which does more damage for my build ; GS or sword + whatever offhand.

Thanks

For single target DPS in a power build, sw/sw will have higher potential than great sword. However, if you are commanding you will rarely be in a situation where high single target DPS matters as you will be at the spear tip of your group mixing it up with the melee train of the opposing group. Gs would probably be better all around in situations like this as it has more AE potential.

If you are going to be commanding, staff is also worth considering as simply choosing the highest DPS weapon set is not going to translate into providing the most utility for your zerg. Remember that as a commander your job is not to secure kills, but to be able to stay alive long enough to direct your melee train and provide a target for the focus fire of your ranged support.

StormHawk.9862:

I’m going to be commanding in WvW and although, I do know it’s not optimal to go DPS, I just want to know which does more damage for my build ; GS or sword + whatever offhand.

Thanks

Don’t do it, commanding (large-scale) with mesmer is not that good.
As a commander:
-you should survive ? mesmers don’t really have good pure dmg reduction/immun, only F4 on a relative long CD with hard pre-reqs, as you’ll have 0 clones most of the time when you need it.
-you should be followable ? blink, staff 2, (and maybe sword 3) are all skills which are great in smallscale/roaming but are horrible if you want to command. Your meeletrain can’t follow your ports, basically separating you from your allies.

But if you really wanna do it, I believe you can be in the meeletrain with gs/sword+focus, ~3.2k+ armor, 20k+ HP ( maybe something like x/6/x/4/x Triumphant Distortion so iZerker will finish his attack and iWarden has a chance to hit 2-3 times (and sometimes you will be lucky and get the proc from kill the right time.. but most of the time not), Warden’s Feedback so your focus #4 will reflect some projectiles (and lower cd), and ofc Inspiration line has Vitality as bonus. )
But still, don’t do it unless no other choice

So, here’s why folks are saying commanding on a mesmer is gonna be unpleasant:

Remember that as a commander your job is not to secure kills, but to be able to stay alive long enough to direct your melee train and provide a target for the focus fire of your ranged support.

What Feaduin said right here is pretty much the consensus on what a commander is supposed to do. Which is to say, to lead from the front and provide a focal point for everyone else’s actions.

In theory, it doesn’t have to be this way. It’s not like you need a tag to focus your attacks here or there, after all. But, in practice, this is the way to command. The vast majority of players — across all classes, skill levels, &c. — have pretty deeply ingrained expectations about fighting this way. And it’s one of the better techniques for making sure both veterans and newbies are doing roughly the same thing in a fight (otherwise the newbies are sorta dead weight, throwing little bits of random damage around here and there but not really pressure the enemy team much overall).

So, okay, partly that’s just good strategy, partly it’s inertia (folks wanting to play how they’re used to playing). Can you overcome that inertia? Perhaps, but only if you already rock at commanding in general.

Zenith.7301:

Melee weapons always outdamage ranged weapons with the rare exception of the elementalist’s staff.

That’s an edge-case because Elementalist Dagger isn’t a purely melee weapon due to the hybrid ranges it has.

Sword melee 3 times dmg of gs max range. And then the cleave makes it 9 times unless they line up.

When I tested 6/6/0/0/2 Mantra spam GSword max range was ~9% lower then S/S or S/P each with a single phantasm on the field. The gap remained about the same with two and three phantasms on the field also. This was done w/o might/vulnerabilty stacking so I don’t know how they each scale up. MoP spam was a DPS increase even with a recharge in the ‘rotation’ with GS. It was a wash with S/X.

If you get critical hits, ~3k autoattacks on Sword are no problem.

The Sword with the right offhand does more damage, but you are in melee so you will eat more damage, too.
The defensivce aspect on GS is, while you are in range, you make less damage But you get no hits. That shows you really can’t compare these weapons.

Xyonon.3987:

Sword melee 3 times dmg of gs max range. And then the cleave makes it 9 times unless they line up.

Not correct.
GS max range damage 0.945 coef, cast time 1.4s, dps = 0.675
Sw hit cycle 0.6 + 0.6 + 1.1 (0.9 if enemy has boon) = 2.3 coef, cast time (full cycle) ~ 2.5s, dps = 0.92 (or 0.84 vs enemy with boon)
So 0.92 / 0.675 = 1.3629 times better. Or sword AA better then max GS AA only by 36% (not counting boons, conditions, sigil procs, etc). Even less sw AA dps If you not managed to go through full AA cycle because most damage attack is 3rd in a row. Only ~15% better for 1st and 2nd attack in sw AA chain if I’m not wrong.
Personally think sword autos need some type of buff.

Simply fixing the bugged Mind Spike to match the tooltip would give SW another +7.2% over max-range GS, making it 43.6% better than max-range GS.

Probably it would be good fix, but still minor imo. It emphasize 3rd AA chain hit, while it’s relatively hard to land all 3 hits for me at least (low speed attack, need to chase enemy at melee range on light armor and usually zerk build, etc).How often u successfully land full sw AA cycle from pvp standpoint? For me it mb something like 5% of sw time (not including downed and ressing ppl). Idk, mb some attack speed buff?

Mak.2657:

Xyonon.3987:

Sword melee 3 times dmg of gs max range. And then the cleave makes it 9 times unless they line up.

Not correct.
GS max range damage 0.945 coef, cast time 1.4s, dps = 0.675
Sw hit cycle 0.6 + 0.6 + 1.1 (0.9 if enemy has boon) = 2.3 coef, cast time (full cycle) ~ 2.5s, dps = 0.92 (or 0.84 vs enemy with boon)
So 0.92 / 0.675 = 1.3629 times better. Or sword AA better th*a*n max GS AA only by 36% (not counting boons, conditions, sigil procs, etc). Even less sw AA dps If you not managed to go through full AA cycle because most damage attack is 3rd in a row. Only ~15% better for 1st and 2nd attack in sw AA chain if I’m not wrong.
Personally think sword autos need some type of buff.

Yup, my bad. Somehow mixed up my memory with some stuff. That our class deals nearly no dmg is already well known, but tbh, I don’t want it to. I’d like to see rather devastating effects. Right now we have vulnerability and boonstrip on our aa, wich is actually pretty kitten. The vuln sure results in a good amount of dmg for the team in a pt, and the boonstrip can be a huge dmg boost when you rip protection or regeneration from mobs, especially dredges. Also luv the 25stacks might rip at the ascalon fotm.

Mak.2657:

Xyonon.3987:

Sword melee 3 times dmg of gs max range. And then the cleave makes it 9 times unless they line up.

Not correct.
GS max range damage 0.945 coef, cast time 1.4s, dps = 0.675
Sw hit cycle 0.6 + 0.6 + 1.1 (0.9 if enemy has boon) = 2.3 coef, cast time (full cycle) ~ 2.5s, dps = 0.92 (or 0.84 vs enemy with boon)
So 0.92 / 0.675 = 1.3629 times better. Or sword AA better then max GS AA only by 36% (not counting boons, conditions, sigil procs, etc). Even less sw AA dps If you not managed to go through full AA cycle because most damage attack is 3rd in a row. Only ~15% better for 1st and 2nd attack in sw AA chain if I’m not wrong.
Personally think sword autos need some type of buff.

So um just to confirm, sorry can’t follow up with the math. Haha. The sword does more damage than gs still or is it the other way around, with math involved? Anyone can answer this, so feel free.

Sword autos do more damage, yes.

Which is fair because one is a melee attack. And the other one is a 1200-range (slightly longer on the #1 attack, actually — practice activating it manually) unreflectable instant-tracking laser beam.

Also, it’s not a lot more unless you’re hitting with the third attack in the auto chain.

ASP.8093:

Sword autos do more damage, yes.

Which is fair because one is a melee attack. And the other one is a 1200-range (slightly longer on the #1 attack, actually — practice activating it manually) unreflectable instant-tracking laser beam.

Also, it’s not a lot more unless you’re hitting with the third attack in the auto chain.

Oh but I don’t mean just the Auto Attack I mean all the moves with any off hand for the sword, would results still be the same?

The thing is, this is all moot in PvP/WvW, because we’re talking game modes where range actually matters. Some enemies are much safer to engage at long range. Others are too evasive to get close to consistently. Others get all up in your face where Greatsword autos do very little damage.

Lots and lots of folks play Greatsword + Sword/X specifically because they’re both good weapon sets for aggressive power-based builds; both weapons offer similar features but also compensate for each other’s shortcomings reasonably well. Or they’ll run Greatsword + Staff or maybe Staff + Sword/X, because the Staff gives you amazing defensive mobility (at the cost of doing very little non-condition damage).

Nobody PvPs with Sword/X + Sword/Y (which is a popular “high-end” PvE build) because you’re just going to be useless a lot of the time.