Guild Wars 2

Hey guys,
I play a shatter build Mesmer, I’ve had the Mesmer since release but only recently started playing it properly. I love using it in dungeons and I really want to master using “Feedback” to reflect Lupi’s AoE attack.

I haven’t had much chance to practice yet. The first time, I was told I missed because I was too late. So I’ve been studying the animation on youtube videos to try and get it right. Had another go today and I’ve just about got the timing right. But I’m still missing.

Can anyone give any tips?

Thanks

You need to use it as early as possible once the tell starts. It lasts long enough pretty easily so just get use to the start of the tell and cast as fast as possible.

you need to use it once lupi hunches over and crosses his arms. in phase 3, you need to use it when he sort of tilts back a bit before his circular shooting aoe

Yeah thanks, that’s when I was using it. Maybe I just wasn’t close enough or something. I didn’t realize it worked well in phase 3 too? I’ll have to try that.

Thanks

The phase 2 animation tell is when he hunches over and grabs his chest.

Yeah I got that .. maybe I just wasn’t close enough. Unless it doesn’t do as much damage as I thought it did .. :/

dobbo.9564:

Yeah I got that .. maybe I just wasn’t close enough. Unless it doesn’t do as much damage as I thought it did .. :/

Most pugs will not do as much damage as recordings of organised groups.

Unlike most mobs, the only thing feedback reflects on lupi are bolts that actually hit the feedback bubble, so it works pretty consistently on p3.

p2 however, the shots are psudo targeted at players. So if everyone is spread out at range there will be very little shots hitting at lupis feet causing low damage. I’d suggest learning to melee him so there’s at least 1 target (plus clones) at his feet to improve damage.

durend.6237:

Most pugs will not do as much damage as recordings of organised groups.

Unlike most mobs, the only thing feedback reflects on lupi are bolts that actually hit the feedback bubble, so it works pretty consistently on p3.

p2 however, the shots are psudo targeted at players. So if everyone is spread out at range there will be very little shots hitting at lupis feet causing low damage. I’d suggest learning to melee him so there’s at least 1 target (plus clones) at his feet to improve damage.

People range Lupi? Really? … that’s news to me. lol

Have your group melee Lupi, and when he goes into Phase 2, use TW, spawn 3 phantasms/clones, and run outside of TW, w/ your finger on the Feedback button. Have your group use Ogre Pet Whistles & Embers so more projectiles will appear. When he hunches over and crosses his arms, use Feedback then run back into melee range. TW + Feedback + your team’s DPS should get him into Phase 3. Having ele/mes/thief on your team pick up FGS and use Fiery Rush + Lightning Flash/Blink/Shadowstep (or just Fiery Rush if you’ve backed him against the wall) helps too. If Feedback gets off CD before you’ve killed him, use it in Phase 3 when does his circular projectile AoE. Activate Power Break if/when he bubbles your team.

I think they patched reflect dmg on lupi long ago….

DavyMcB.1603:

I think they patched reflect dmg on lupi long ago….

no such thing.

I haven’t fought Lupi that much either, but don’t all the players have to be under the feedback bubble at melee range in order to reflect; otherwise he’s just throwing the projectiles over the bubble.

guanlongwucaii.3162:

DavyMcB.1603:

I think they patched reflect dmg on lupi long ago….

no such thing.

I was talking about the maximum number of “damage-dealing” projectiles that you can reflect back to Lupi. It used to be unlimited but some people claim that it’s now limited around 20 projectiles. I haven’t been to Arah for a long time so I can’t confirm this my self but my guildies also said something similar.

Wow, thanks for the advice guys. Great response

To be honest I’ve done Lupi quite a few times now (not on mesmer though) and we almost ALWAYS range. Probably for no other reason than that’s how I was first shown how to do it. and stuck to that method because it works (we aren’t all spec’d for survivability, especially me).

Do you HAVE to have the party in melee range for feedback to work properly then? Or is that just to get the maximum benefit from it?

Can someone explain the mechanics behind Lupi’s AoE attack and feedback? I didn’t think it mattered being range or not?

Thanks again

My previous post told you everything you need to know.

Yes, “you HAVE to have the party in melee range for feedback to work properly.” Everyone should also spawn Embers and Ogre Pets the moment he goes into phase 2 so more projectiles appear, and you should pop TW as well, then run outside of TW and wait for him to hunch over and cross his arms. When he does that, use Feedback and run back inside (or hit 3 the trade places w/ your clone and teleport to within melee range). It’s important to use Feedback while outside of TW because otherwise the duration is shortened. When he goes into phase 3, tell your team to NOT MOVE. Moving causes him to do his bubble attack. If he does bubble, activate power break for AoE stability so everyone can run/dodge out of the bubble. If he does his projectile AoE, use feedback.

The whole party is for maximum benefit.

Anyway, normally it doesn’t matter where you’re standing for feedback. In the asura fractal for instance, when you put it over a harpy it doesn’t matter if your far away or right under them it’ll work just as fine.

Also important thing to note about feedback is that it reflects on both sides of the skill. Think of the trait medic’s feedback for instance. When it creates the feedback when you start reviving, you are still safe in the bubble from anything firing from outside of it.

Now for lupi. The big difference between him and every other mob in the game is that A.net took his size into consideration. He stands way above the feedback bubble, thus a.net made it so his attacks are not automatically reflected just due to a feedback at his feet. If that were the case, you wouldn’t need to dodge.

But, the second example still works, anything inside the bubble is safe, due to any attack hitting the bubble from above getting reflected.

Once again, lupi’s attacks are largely aimed at players.

Everyone ranged → nearly no attacks at his feet → nearly no attacks to reflect → nearly no damage

Everyone melee → nearly all the attacks at his feet → a TON of damage from feedback

That said, with me being the only person meleeing feedback is generally enough to get him to phase 3 with only 2 casts (one if I’m lucky and have a dps group or another person meleeing).

This compares to p3 in one cast and him only having 20%~ health with the full party at melee and proper buffs/debuffs (this is how people pull off the sub 30 second lupi kills that skip phase 3)

As for melee vs range on the fight. except for p1, the fight is honestly easier in melee as there are less attacks to worry about. For instnace

P1:
Melee threats: kick, grub spawn, locusts
Ranged threats: grub spawn, locusts

P2:
Melee threats: swipe, mass AoE
Ranged threats: shadow step, single target projectiles, mass AoE

P3:
Melee threats: single target life steal, AoE life steal, bombardment, bubble(if moving too much only)
Ranged threats: single target life steal, AoE life steal, bombardment, bubble, single target projectiles

The only phase where there’s more attacks to watch out for in melee over ranged is p1.

That said, you have to have quicker reaction times in melee over ranged.

You mention survivability, I melee on all my characters and all my characters are full berserker. If I screw up, I’m on the ground. If you’re meleeing lupi, it’s not about being able to tank the hits, but being able to dodge them – orrian truffle stew or weapons with energy sigils are invaluable when you’re first learning.

There’s several videos floating around of people soloing the boss that include commentary on what the tells are for each attack, I’d suggest studying those so you understand his animations and know how to react.

^ exactly what Durend said (hiya – I know you! Aphiera here).

Some stuff we both left out is:

- The first and last grub spawns in phase 1 can target both players AND your clones/pets/embers/ogre pets, and are undodgeable. The grub spawns in between only target players and ARE dodgeable. So keep an eye out for the first and last grubs, and kill them quickly.

- Single-target life steal in phase 3 is easy on mes, and a pain on most other classes. On mes you have 2x dodges + 1x evade – you can survive it. On ele (s/d + LH), I’m forced to use Mist Form utility, because otherwise I dodge twice, then life steal kills me. I usually just pray I’m not the one targeted by it. On war, you have to rely on the notoriously finicky Whirlwind evade, or carry Endure Pain.

- Both Kick and Swipe have defined tells – learn them!

Hey guys,
Thanks soo much for the advice! Really helpful posts. Sorry “Anierna” I must have miss-read your first post, but after reading it a second time with the additional information I understand it.

I actually didn’t realise “Feedback” reflects on both sides. So that explains a lot about Melee over Ranged. I also didn’t realize that Anet took Lupi’s height into consideration for feedback, which also explains a lot.

Thanks again for all the advice.

Looking forward to giving it a try

I would suggest popping pets, especially ogre whistles, only during transition to phase 2. The pets tend to move around a lot and are pretty useless in phase 1 anyway, and if they stand just outside of the feedback they can kill your team with the splash damage from the frenzied blast (the projectile explodes when it lands causing splash damage).

Also, in most cases if you are running with a DPS build guardian Lupicus will use the single-target lifesteal on the guardian. Elementalists also tend to be the target. However, Lupicus can randomly change aggro for the lifesteal (sometimes due to downed state, others for seemingly no reason at all). If Lupicus is facing you while casting the animation you will want to be ready in case you become the target. It’s the same thing with phase 1 grubs. If Lupicus is not facing you while doing the animation you should not have to dodge.

That is too true – I seem to get targeted by lifesteal 90% of the time when I’m on ele. Unfortunately, it’s made carrying Mist Form a necessity. I haven’t noticed it on guard though.

Yeah Ele is my main and Lupi is a pain in the backside on him.

What kind of build would you suggest for Lupi? I was running a shatter build. But someone said that might not be a great option for Arah and several other dungeons. Will Dungeons is what I do most on. So since then I went back to a 10/30/0/20/10 build with GS + S/F .. and a friend suggested taking S/S instead for Lupi ..

So I’m just curious what other people are running? I’m not looking for the BEST build for Lupi .. I just want something that I can use well in all dungeons without having to changing things around every time.

Thanks

Your traits are good. For Lupi, you’ll use Deceptive Evasion instead of Phantasmal Fury so you can quickly dodge to get illusions up to ensure there are 3 illusions when you Feedback, for maximum modifiers. You’ll normally use Phantasmal Fury though. For Lupi, you’ll carry 3 mantras + feedback to maximize modifiers, but in most dungeons you’ll only be carrying 2 mantras since most groups want you to: A) use Sig of Insp for might; or B ) use Mimic for fracs; or C) use Arcane Thievery/Phantasmal Disenchanter/Blink + Portal hacks whenever those are required.

Your friend was right about the weps – s/f + OH swap to sword. You get an extra block via sword 4 and you get to keep sword MH while summoning your 2nd phantasm via sword 5. For Lupi you could go pistol OH instead of focus if you want, but since you’re getting shortened CD’s on sword and focus anyway, I’d stick with focus.

I usually use Deceptive Evasion and Phantasmal Fury anyway.

10 – III
30 – II – IV – X
0
20 – II – VIII
10 – III

I thought about swapping Wardens Feedback for Temporal Enchanter for Lupi. But other than that I think its an alright build.

Did Lupi again last night with a LOT of wipes :P My team aren’t used to Meleeing so I guess that’s gonna take some practice. But on the time we were successful it was pretty quick. Just practice now I guess

Thanks

You should always use blade training. Deceptive evasion is good on lupi, rest of the time use phantasmal fury instead unless you really like deceptive evasion. Also the best weapon sets for lupi are sw/sw and sw/f. You can get some extra reflect damage by rotating warden, curtain and feedback in phase 3.

Thanks,
I use Deceptive Evasion with Phantasmal Fury anyway .. so what do people normally replace one of them with if people tend do have either one or the other?

You never have both. You always have blade training and empowered mantras.

Whats the point of that? .. Most of the time I have no mantras equipt. Only ever use them when I’m doing Lupi or something more specialty.

Extra damage. Stability and condi cleanse from mantras is great in itself and the 4% modifiers are really strong. You may want to slot in other skills depending on encounter; null field if a lot of condi cleanse is needed, SoI if party isn’t capping boons, etc. However, mantras are good overall and you will often be having 1-3 on your bar.