~Elyssion~
“Gw2, It’s still on the Table!” – Anet
“Gw2, It’s still on the Table!” – Anet
Mesmer Maximum
I hesitate to use absolutes in a situation like this. I would avoid saying that there are no new builds, as I’m always open to the possibility that there’s an idea of interaction that nobody has thought of before that can be used to create a new and interesting build.
That being said, I haven’t seen any truly new builds in probably close to a year at this point.
Every new ‘build’ has been one of two things:
- Hey, I made some minuscule modification to an already prevalent build, what do you guys think?
- Hey, I’ve come up with a trait distribution that nobody else uses, what do you guys think?
In case one, it’s just…nothing new, nothing special. Yeah, it works, and it works because it’s basically the same thing as before. In case two, there’s usually a really good set of reasons that nobody uses those traits…they don’t work together/at all/etc.
That also being said…I don’t think this is necessarily an objectively bad thing. It’s more of just…a thing. It’s not really caused by bugs or poor design decisions (rip immortal build) or anything like that. There’s simply a finite number of combinations of the factors in the game that can create both functionally unique and effective builds.
The only thing that could really crack that sort of hard barrier is significantly new options, and we have seen some semblance of an effort on Anet’s part to provide these. The new grandmaster traits had the potential to do this, to add truly new options and could have been really cool.
Unfortunately, we know what happened instead. The new grandmaster traits either have very minimal effects (triumphant distortion) or are so unbelievably bad that it boggles the mind that nobody in the development process ever said ‘hm, these are all abysmal…weeeee should throw them all out and try again for real this time’ (all the other new traits).
So what are we left with? We’re in the position of really just needing to wait for meaningful changes changes and additions to the game before further build innovation can continue. Not bug fixes or little buffs, but fundamental additions that can form truly new things.
There’s not an infinite number of skill/trait/gear combinations, and out of that an even smaller number of broad templates that can be considered useable in the different game modes.
In that way it’s only natural that there will be many “rehashes” of previous builds.
But it depends how you define a build – I prefer to see builds as fluid templates, with the important thing to think about being:
1. how do you deal damage (direct/condition/mixture)
2. how do you stay alive (too many methods to mention, including class specific features)
3. how do you support your allies
4. how do you control your enemies
Otherwise it’s best to be flexible – I would only separate things into two broad mesmer specific categories when it comes to dealing damage (direct and condition):
- shattering illusions for damage
- illusions dealing damage passively (phantasms, clones, clone death)
- a mixture of both
Things like PU, IP, CI, CS, MtD and so on are just flavouring – important flavouring but only one feature of a build which is created around the four points listed above.
I’m of the opinion that this whole “build ownership” thing is a bit silly when you think of the number of different players out there – just pick your traits/skills/gear and adapt where you need to.
I’m of the opinion that this whole “build ownership” thing is a bit silly when you think of the number of different players out there – just pick your traits/skills/gear and adapt where you need to.
I’m not sure why you brought this up. Build ownership doesn’t actually have any relation to whether or not a build has a new and unique idea/functionality to it.
Well look this isn’t theoretical particle physics, there is only so far you can go here. As was said, there are a finite number of total trait combinations, and a very small subset of those even remotely make sense. Now take all the players that experiment with mesmer builds and let them go at it for two years… ya it has pretty much all been done and there isn’t really much more to figure out.
As pyro said, until they add more possibilities to explore, you won’t be seeing much that hasn’t been already done in the past 2 years.
I’m of the opinion that this whole “build ownership” thing is a bit silly when you think of the number of different players out there – just pick your traits/skills/gear and adapt where you need to.
I’m not sure why you brought this up. Build ownership doesn’t actually have any relation to whether or not a build has a new and unique idea/functionality to it.
I brought it up because it was relevant with the “rehashing” comment – to me that implies ownership, or at least that’s how I interpreted it. Maybe that wasn’t intended by the OP.
I’m of the opinion that this whole “build ownership” thing is a bit silly when you think of the number of different players out there – just pick your traits/skills/gear and adapt where you need to.
I’m not sure why you brought this up. Build ownership doesn’t actually have any relation to whether or not a build has a new and unique idea/functionality to it.
I brought it up because it was relevant with the “rehashing” comment – to me that implies ownership, or at least that’s how I interpreted it. Maybe that wasn’t intended by the OP.
The concept of build ownership is a non-issue with regards to that. Whether or not someone ‘owns’ a build has no bearing on it having been done before and no longer being a new idea.
The concept of new ideas is a pretty broad one. You could say ‘oh, 0/4/6/0/4 is a new build, the trait fix allowed that to become something new’. Well, I’d disagree. There’s no truly fundamental difference between than and the standard PU condie build that everyone’s been running for so long now. Sure, it’s a slight tweak, but the idea behind the build is absolutely identical. Owned or not, it’s not a new idea, it’s a small modification on an existing build.
I’m of the opinion that this whole “build ownership” thing is a bit silly when you think of the number of different players out there – just pick your traits/skills/gear and adapt where you need to.
I’m not sure why you brought this up. Build ownership doesn’t actually have any relation to whether or not a build has a new and unique idea/functionality to it.
I brought it up because it was relevant with the “rehashing” comment – to me that implies ownership, or at least that’s how I interpreted it. Maybe that wasn’t intended by the OP.
The concept of build ownership is a non-issue with regards to that. Whether or not someone ‘owns’ a build has no bearing on it having been done before and no longer being a new idea.
The concept of new ideas is a pretty broad one. You could say ‘oh, 0/4/6/0/4 is a new build, the trait fix allowed that to become something new’. Well, I’d disagree. There’s no truly fundamental difference between than and the standard PU condie build that everyone’s been running for so long now. Sure, it’s a slight tweak, but the idea behind the build is absolutely identical. Owned or not, it’s not a new idea, it’s a small modification on an existing build.
Ok I was quick to jump on the build ownership argument so my mistake – let’s end that one here.
Anyway – that’s exactly the point I made about there being a few broad templates and anything else is just minor personal preference – and also why I prefer not to go as far as putting builds into nice neat classified boxes because to me it doesn’t work like that.
I think this is the case for pretty much every class now. Anet are yet to add any significant changes to how we build and how we fight. We need new weapon skills, utilities, traits and elites, but as a large package rather than being drip-fed to us over a prolonged period.
Unfortunately, I don’t think there’s any room for large additions like this alongside Anet’s Living Story directive.
Gandara
I’m really only asking because sometimes i just don’t feel like i have the right answers myself.
I wonder if it was the bugs that pushed us to fill out the “Base build” quota more quickly than the other classes seemed to have done. Or if it was something else.
So if it was not the Bugs then what was it really?
Class Mechanic or lack of .. well there’s no really kind way to put it.. terrible traits?
I’m trying hard not to pin it down onto our classes mechanic but it’s hard not to.. it may be a combination of traits utilities weapons and mechanics yet one of them has to be the bigger “offender” than the others.
~Elyssion~
“Gw2, It’s still on the Table!” – Anet
“Gw2, It’s still on the Table!” – Anet
I’m really only asking because sometimes i just don’t feel like i have the right answers myself.
I wonder if it was the bugs that pushed us to fill out the “Base build” quota more quickly than the other classes seemed to have done. Or if it was something else.
So if it was not the Bugs then what was it really?
Class Mechanic or lack of .. well there’s no really kind way to put it.. terrible traits?
I’m trying hard not to pin it down onto our classes mechanic but it’s hard not to.. it may be a combination of traits utilities weapons and mechanics yet one of them has to be the bigger “offender” than the others.
That also being said…I don’t think this is necessarily an objectively bad thing. It’s more of just…a thing. It’s not really caused by bugs or poor design decisions (rip immortal build) or anything like that. There’s simply a finite number of combinations of the factors in the game that can create both functionally unique and effective builds.
I’m really only asking because sometimes i just don’t feel like i have the right answers myself.
I wonder if it was the bugs that pushed us to fill out the “Base build” quota more quickly than the other classes seemed to have done. Or if it was something else.
So if it was not the Bugs then what was it really?
Class Mechanic or lack of .. well there’s no really kind way to put it.. terrible traits?
I’m trying hard not to pin it down onto our classes mechanic but it’s hard not to.. it may be a combination of traits utilities weapons and mechanics yet one of them has to be the bigger “offender” than the others.
That also being said…I don’t think this is necessarily an objectively bad thing. It’s more of just…a thing. It’s not really caused by bugs or poor design decisions (rip immortal build) or anything like that. There’s simply a finite number of combinations of the factors in the game that can create both functionally unique and effective builds.
I wonder if it was the bugs that pushed us to fill out the “Base build” quota more quickly than the other classes seemed to have done. Or if it was something else.
~Elyssion~
“Gw2, It’s still on the Table!” – Anet
“Gw2, It’s still on the Table!” – Anet
Fellow Mesmers I have a question.
Have we hit our maximum potential as a class?
and by that I mean..
Are there no new builds anymore and just rehashes of previous ones?
I don’t see a lot of creative tooling anymore when it comes to the Mesmer Profession, so much time spent working around bugs and worthless traits and weapons.. has it forced our hands early to figure out the best/weirdest ways to make the class playable?
If we’ve really hit the end of the road then what would open things back up the most for us?
Buffs to make us less reliant on traits?
Traits changed around / replaced / redone / etc..?
Bug fixes?
New utilities and elites?
Why do we even need there to be some extra variation in builds? Do Wizards try to create a new archetype separate to the aggro/midrange/control/combo when making new sets of cards for magic the gathering? Of course not, it’s tried, tested, it works. Just how with mesmer right now you have shatter, phantasm, PU and CI builds with their individual goals (some are better for team fights others just absolutely obliterate in 1v1, others are good at holding far point or whatever), there’s no need for change for no reason.
Serah Mahariel – Death and Taxes
I’m really only asking because sometimes i just don’t feel like i have the right answers myself.
I wonder if it was the bugs that pushed us to fill out the “Base build” quota more quickly than the other classes seemed to have done. Or if it was something else.
So if it was not the Bugs then what was it really?
Class Mechanic or lack of .. well there’s no really kind way to put it.. terrible traits?
I’m trying hard not to pin it down onto our classes mechanic but it’s hard not to.. it may be a combination of traits utilities weapons and mechanics yet one of them has to be the bigger “offender” than the others.
It would be nice if the new GM traits were more pivotal.
I know this is likely never going to happen but ideally I would like to see weapon and utility skill evolutions – so we as the players can customise each skill a little bit to work for us.
Nothing too complicated – maybe one or two branching choices – for example take iCounter – select between more condition damage or more direct damage. Then select between, I dunno, lower cooldown with normal counter bolt or higher cooldown with pbaoe damage/blind – not really the best example but hopefully that illustrates the point.
If we could customise weapon and utility skills and all of the “useless” traits were made more useful, then I think there would be a lot more variety.