Guild Wars 2

As long as this game exists, mesmer has been nerfed all the time. And now I’m not talking about 1v1’s, no not at all, I’m talking about mesmer in WvW. From roaming to large scale WvW, the only buffs we got are PU and phantasm damage/hp increase. Now as you can probably see yourself, both buffs have almost 0 effect on the somewhat larger scale of WvW.

Mesmer started of nice: Confusion was still strong, mesmer was the counter against the fast and hard hitting specs. Back then, people were still running dps food beacuse crit -> steal life had no internal cooldown. This is one of the reasons why the confusion was also so good, is because it lasted long enough and it didnt get removed really fast by shout warriors and/or purging flames. As much as I loved this spec, I also see a lot downsides from it. The major one would be that it’s just an almost brainless ‘’spam 2/3 aoes to win’’ spec. It was even so easy that even the mesmers with the smallest experience on their mesmer could do the job. I totally agree on the nerf from arenanet and think it was a good step including the nerf on retaliation (which still deals 20% too much damage in my honest opinion).

The sad thing about this all is that they never really got to fill up this gap they created. It was almost like you removed a total gameplay content from 1 profession with 1 change. Then again, the confusion nerf was more than enough to nerf mesmer. The Blinding Befuddlement nerf was totally unnecessary.

With the introduction of dire armor, which I was waiting for for months, a confusion/tank spec could actually be worth as mesmer. Timing your chaos armor well enough to get well timed diminishing returns, not like retaliation as chaos armor is impossible to stack and nearly impossible to keep up 24/7.

My hope was still not gone for mesmer, so I tried other builds and stumbled upon shatter mesmer. Eventhough this was less damage, it was still pretty usefull. This was mostly possible due the support of guardians and warriors and because blurred frenzy would ignore retaliation. The good sides of shatter mesmer were the boon removal and the short cooldown immobilizes combined with the fast hitting ’’spikes’’.

Now of course this had to be nerfed too because this was clearly overpowered and mesmer should never be even close to the GLEN meta so they changed it that blurred frenzy, a skill that hits 8 times, is affected by retaliation. Great! Thanks for that!

Then recently they introduced Triumphant Distortion which allows you to, if you actually kill people, gain 3 seconds of distortion every 10-15 seconds. I really like the trait, but it’s still not usefull unless you have a good team around you to help you with stability, healings, condition removal and of course: to kill people. If 1 of these lacks, there’s a fair chance you will die unless you keep running around with the hopes you wont get picked off.

I don’t understand something here: We are a support profession, yet we have always had the meta of doing as much damage possible. We have support skills, yet they never got buffed or even considered getting a buff. The statements of Arenanet where they said they would: 1. listen to the comunnity, and 2. allow every profession to be usefull at any game content, totally failed with mesmer. Mesmer in early game was more balanced around the game than what it is now, after all the ’’balances’’.

There has been multiple threads going on how to make mesmer kinda viable in big groups, without even changing too much. It’s not even a change to let them deal more damage, because there are surely other ways to work around that.

You come up with interrupt traits, yet they get insta-nerfed or totally dont work together with any other traits. You make 2 mantra’s aoe, yet you leave the other 2 as they are which 100% need the change too. This was a fair shot to get to a grandmaster trait that would allow mantra’s go aoe, but you failed to grab that chance to make interrupt mesmer viable on large scale.

TLDR: You can’t give a super powerful skill as veil to a profession that gets nerfed into the ground on that specific game type where the skill is so strong at. It forces single players to go roll the profession, drop the skill and look how other people around them have fun in the game while you are kiting 24/7, killing very few on the backline or are playing skillfull in the melee, though as mentioned before you will need a lot support for that and it only works if you’re killing. Then again, the damage you deal is pathetic compared to what tank guardians and warriors do vs your full zerker mesmer.
There are so many options to buff to make mesmer usefull besides of veil, even without dealing too much damage. Either buff mesmer or just give veil to another profession.

/Doiid – BlackDevil.9268

Reserved for possible changes/buffs so mesmer is viable again besides veil.

what makes you think a dueling class is meant to work in massive group settings

Well, maha:
There’s just one problem with the “dueling class” classification. Namely, that 1v1 has -iirc- never been considered a balance priority in this game. With that in mind, is it so illogical to want some kind of workable aoe/group damage spec?

OTOH, if 1v1 were actually a sanctioned and balanced thing, it would then be “appropriate” to design the class around said function. Although, that would still never explain the existence (on a “Duelist” class) of:

• Veil
• Portal
• Time Warp

Just to put a few examples on the table. Honestly, as much as the “magical duelist” tagline sounds all sorts of pimptastic, it rather smashes right into a logic wall in any
fight past -say- 1v2(or 3). So, the question we should ask ourselves is:

“Precisely how do we reconcile the “stated” strengths of a Mesmer, with the reality of how the game operates?"

maha.7902:

what makes you think a dueling class is meant to work in massive group settings

What makes you think one class should be excluded entirely from a large portion of the game?

They still have too much left to nerf before mesmer is completely ruined.

Have to agree on this, my wvw experience while I am on mesmer at the moment is limited to scouting, running from bigger sized groups (normally I just roam with a group of three or four) and hiding in sm when our zerg is unable to respond.
When I do follow the zerg, if we wipe the enemy zerg I am left to run all over the map collecting my 9 or so loot bags while every one else is crowing on how many loot bags they got.
Now it could be that I am just not playing the class well, but I do the whole blurred frenzy in the melee train (or if the ranged stack up nicely) thing but most of the time I have to get out of there so quickly so that what remains of my health isn’t eaten up by aoe’s. After that I spend a lot of time running around the edge hitting some random that has moved too far away from the melee train and waiting for my next heal so that I can attempt another suicide leap and without the illusionary leap ‘bug’ it really is a suicide leap.

Zelulose.8695:

They still have too much left to nerf before mesmer is completely ruined.

The day ANet nerfs reflect damage is the day they finally drive mesmers into a grave.

The trouble is you’re just not seeing the class as Anet see it.

frifox.5283:

Zelulose.8695:

They still have too much left to nerf before mesmer is completely ruined.

The day ANet nerfs reflect damage is the day they finally drive mesmers into a grave.

Taking retaliation on reflect damage is already a kind of nerf. You can instant die.
With blurred frenzy nerf it is even worth.
In top of that you can be instantly tp in the ennemy zerg thanks to weird mechanics (Necro tp projectile) which means also an instant death.
Do not take feed-back against a zerg…never !

But feedback is one of the only ways I can tag for loot ;(

That is, when I go to wvw. I haven’t been there in 2 months now

In top of that how can Anet raise that mesmer is a strong duellist when it is shut down so hard by another profession ?

Kicast.1459:

In top of that how can Anet raise that mesmer is a strong duellist when it is shut down so hard by another profession ?

Thief blind spam? Necro condi bomb? Warrior engage/disengage at will? Engie aoe celestial power/condi nade spam? Anything that knows how to kill a clone or phantasm?

Loads of great duelists out there these days.

We are not superior in 1vs1 than other professions, and there isn’t a game mode called duel…there are three aspects of the game : spvp (5vs5), wvw (massively battle, I would say 5+) and pve; we have barely a place in each one thank to our utilities that have got long CD…I don’t call this a balanced profession.

The description of Mesmer like duelist profession means nothing and can’t be balanced on that statement.

Blinding befuddlement nerf was completely unnecessary – totally agree right there. Confusion damage reduction was sufficient; they should just revert the blinding befuddlement nerf entirely.

Blurred frenzy on the other hand… well I have to say it was too powerful having 2s invuln on 8-10s cooldown. The problem isn’t invuln-evade, the problem is retaliation needs a complete rework because the current mechanics are brainless.

maha.7902:

what makes you think a dueling class is meant to work in massive group settings

What makes you think mesmer was designed as dueling class while being hardcountered against at least 1 profession?
What makes you think mesmer was designed as dueling class while having more than 4 powerful group utilities?
What makes you think mesmer was designed as dueling class while having many supportive/aoe traits?

Can go on like this for a while.

Curunen.8729:

Blinding befuddlement nerf was completely unnecessary – totally agree right there. Confusion damage reduction was sufficient; they should just revert the blinding befuddlement nerf entirely.

Blurred frenzy on the other hand… well I have to say it was too powerful having 2s invuln on 8-10s cooldown. The problem isn’t invuln-evade, the problem is retaliation needs a complete rework because the current mechanics are brainless.

Even it was too powerfull, nerfing it made it pretty underpowered along with the illusionary leap that is bugged since day 1 and nerfed recently because it was ’’bugged’’ for allowing skilled play instead of spam. Either a damage boost or hits changed from 8 to 4 would cover up the gap that’s there on sword, but it would be a start of the changes mesmer needs.

Yes, as discussed in a previous thread, reducing BF hits and buffing damage would help, if retaliation is left alone.

Both sword #2 and #3 need something for sure.

Curunen.8729:

Yes, as discussed in a previous thread, reducing BF hits and buffing damage would help, if retaliation is left alone.

Both sword #2 and #3 need something for sure.

Maybe remove the stun break on 3 as It is still something that can be used sometimes

I disagree.
Despite everything elementalist still have seen the most severe nerfs.
To the point that had skils totally redesigned and Others nerfed of more than 200%.

Mesmer just recently saw some strong nerfs but its anet politic.
If its easy to play buff it.
If its hard to play nerf it.

LordByron.8369:

I disagree.
Despite everything elementalist still have seen the most severe nerfs.
To the point that had skils totally redesigned and Others nerfed of more than 200%.

Mesmer just recently saw some strong nerfs but its anet politic.
If its easy to play buff it.
If its hard to play nerf it.

Wat? Mesmer been under nerf hammer from the 1-st days. Even since betas… Time warp nerf. Phantom nerf. Timewarp ON phantom nerf…and etc and etc…

Ileap is a little nerf comparing to others…but non the less painful.

Ileap nerf only painful because the skill doesn’t work as intended to begin with.

Hamster.4861:

Ileap nerf only painful because the skill doesn’t work as intended to begin with.

I disagree.

It’s the straw that broke the camels back.

When ‘known’ bugs are completely ignored but this is ‘fixed’? Something no one complained about or cared about? Well that’s a good way to p!$$ off the player base.

I’ve stopped playing my mesmer. It’s not worth the time or skill needed, particularly when you watch hammer warriors at work.

for me the biggest mesmer nerf was the Chaos Armor. originally the enemy will get the condition damage everytime they hit you. now there a cooldown of 1 sec i think.

Chaos armor only last for a few second, with this nerf the enemy can only get hit by condition damage as much time.

Sergoros.4398:

LordByron.8369:

I disagree.
Despite everything elementalist still have seen the most severe nerfs.
To the point that had skils totally redesigned and Others nerfed of more than 200%.

Mesmer just recently saw some strong nerfs but its anet politic.
If its easy to play buff it.
If its hard to play nerf it.

Wat? Mesmer been under nerf hammer from the 1-st days. Even since betas… Time warp nerf. Phantom nerf. Timewarp ON phantom nerf…and etc and etc…

Ileap is a little nerf comparing to others…but non the less painful.

that is cute
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLFmrEjNs4Q

LordByron.8369:

Sergoros.4398:

LordByron.8369:

I disagree.
Despite everything elementalist still have seen the most severe nerfs.
To the point that had skils totally redesigned and Others nerfed of more than 200%.

Mesmer just recently saw some strong nerfs but its anet politic.
If its easy to play buff it.
If its hard to play nerf it.

Wat? Mesmer been under nerf hammer from the 1-st days. Even since betas… Time warp nerf. Phantom nerf. Timewarp ON phantom nerf…and etc and etc…

Ileap is a little nerf comparing to others…but non the less painful.

that is cute
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLFmrEjNs4Q

Well. Im pretty sure 100% time warp without target limit…..would be even more devastating. Especially if used on eles like this

Curunen.8729:

Blinding befuddlement nerf was completely unnecessary – totally agree right there. Confusion damage reduction was sufficient; they should just revert the blinding befuddlement nerf entirely.

Blurred frenzy on the other hand… well I have to say it was too powerful having 2s invuln on 8-10s cooldown. The problem isn’t invuln-evade, the problem is retaliation needs a complete rework because the current mechanics are brainless.

They also increased the cooldown on BF.

Menaka.5092:

Curunen.8729:

Blinding befuddlement nerf was completely unnecessary – totally agree right there. Confusion damage reduction was sufficient; they should just revert the blinding befuddlement nerf entirely.

Blurred frenzy on the other hand… well I have to say it was too powerful having 2s invuln on 8-10s cooldown. The problem isn’t invuln-evade, the problem is retaliation needs a complete rework because the current mechanics are brainless.

They also increased the cooldown on BF.

Yeah this was kind of unnecessary to do both things to it. Changing the invuln should have been sufficient (ignoring retal problems).

LumAnth.5124:

But feedback is one of the only ways I can tag for loot ;(

That is, when I go to wvw. I haven’t been there in 2 months now

erm so wht exactly are u refelcting there to tag? warriors? guardoans, necro wells or metoershowers?….feedback is not viable anymore cause of the lack of projectiles and also the problems with necros pulling u in the middle of them.

Mesmer is still viable in many aspects of the game , including gvg’s. The amount of crying is unreal but on a much serious note, anybody who even takes balance by anet seriously anymore in this game has issues anyway. Alot of classes has seen nerfs, even more than mesmers. I think maybe the only class that has gotten a positive buff to nerf ratio is warriors and that’s because they were complete and utter kitten and quite literally ONLY used for PvE for the first year of this game.

Buffing and nerfing and bug fixing, anet is bad at… Get used to it and quit complaining. This game is made for casuals, if you think there’s any in depth pvp potential for this game at this stage, you’re only deluding yourself.

It’s not even about mere “pvp potential,” blitzkrieg. These issues affect any area of game, period. As far as nerf-to-buff ratio, that’s not even the main point; fact is, even more than nerfs, the sheer sodding amount of UNFIXED BUGS drives folks batty.
Hell, if you honestly run Mesmer yourself, don’t you actually want to see the class functioning more efficiently?

@blitzkrieg – I’m confused – if you’re not bothered at the state of the class at the moment, then why go to all the effort of arguing with pretty much everyone in this forum about it – rather than let complainers complain and you just get on and play?

Seems you’re more bothered about people complaining than they are about the state of the class.

yeah the unfixed bugs are a pain. u never know when u press a button, if it actually will work or not. most of the bug are even stronger if u play wvw raids. so after listing and testing every single bug the mes has, and making a thread about it so devs can easily find every bug there is, we dont get a single one fixed(apart from the one pyro got banned for), but we get a so called “bugfix” that has been uncalled for and actually is a nerf.
so yeah people are fed up.
since glamour was nerfed, many of us stayed positive and constructive, trying to creat some form of viable wvw build. all the builds that came out were still not really specific wvw raid builds, but we did try to adjust. wvw and gvg’s are still 2 complete different things btw blitzkrieg. and even there mes is not a must, but an ok addition.
people have been asking for buffs in wvwv raids for months. i warden was broken months ago, certain bugs have been there since release, there is a ton of useless traits and skills that we have also suggested to rework or replace.
we also tried to find ways to deal more aoe dmg in wvw, and every single patch feels like a slap in the face. every single sotg i look at the devs and they seem not knowing how mes relly works, cause all they played it with so fr was either roaming 1v1(1v1 gain is not a gamemode and should never be balanced around) or spvp.
so many strong and helpful members of the mesmer community have given up on the class. so no, we are not whining , we are frustrated and fed up!

devs arent even aware of how massive the glamour nerf for wvw mes really was. we went from being the class that enemies feared and had to actually think before rushing them, to…oh look its a few mes just cc them to death realquick as their veil,tw,portal is not gonna hurt us anyways.
so instead of always attacking members blitzkrieg, u might wanna check where people are coming from.

Curunen.8729:

@blitzkrieg – I’m confused – if you’re not bothered at the state of the class at the moment, then why go to all the effort of arguing with pretty much everyone in this forum about it – rather than let complainers complain and you just get on and play?

Seems you’re more bothered about people complaining than they are about the state of the class.

When you hang out with good mesmers all the time who do extraordinary things (coincidentally, the very same mesmers who never come to the forums to complain) and are among some of the best in the entire game, then come to the forums and see nothing but a bunch of bads whine about petty nerfs. It gets frustrating to watch so I try to educate them, but you can’t make people better with words on a forum, they have to do it themselves. Roll each class, learn all the cooldowns and understand the positioning and the many ways you can counter and get countered by other classes. Most of these mesmers want kitten handed to them, that’s not how it works though. You have to duel top tier players consistently / play in high level tpvp consistently to truly understand your potential. Most of these kids just run around in gank groups in wvw fighting uplevel garbage and noobs who depend on stats and play against noobs and never really learn how to counter the meta builds that exist in the game then come here and whine about everything another class has and what they don’t have then wonder why the state of the game is in shambles. It’s hard to cater to noobs and good players at the same time, both want 2 separate things.

One wants to be casual and have it easy – the majority who come to the forums and complain about other classes and nerfs that really don’t effect high level gameplay.
One wants it to be technical high level gameplay – the people who really never show their face on the forums and adapt to whatever occurs still consistenly dominating in top tier pvp.

There’s a reason why supcutie and helseth , 2 of the best mesmers in the game and also chosen for nomination at gamescon never talk about kitten like this on the forums, because they’re good, and there’s many other top tier mesmers like them that literally never talk on the forums because it’s pointless – why would they? It’s filled with garbage. They’ll release a guide in hopes that the masses get better at the class but no, they all just ignore it and then move on to the next forum to complain about the next thing wrong with the game. It’s just dumb, and it’s a horrible trend in this game , not just with mesmer but with almost every class.

I’ve wasted enough of my time anyway, im done with this thread because it’s just filled with bads who whine about every little thing and go on and on and on about what they don’t have compared to other classes.

blitzkrieg.2451:

There’s a reason why supcutie and helseth , 2 of the best mesmers in the game and also chosen for nomination at gamescon never talk about kitten like this on the forums, because they’re good, and there’s many other top tier mesmers like them that literally never talk on the forums because it’s pointless – why would they? It’s filled with garbage. They’ll release a guide in hopes that the masses get better at the class but no, they all just ignore it and then move on to the next forum to complain about the next thing wrong with the game. It’s just dumb, and it’s a horrible trend in this game , not just with mesmer but with almost every class.

Can’t speak for helseth, but supcutie just plays thief now. I don’t think I’ve seen him actually playing on his mesmer in months and months.

Also, ‘many other top tier mesmers’? Heh, I’d love to see you back that statement up with some names and evidence. As far as I know, helseth is the only person that still plays mesmer in organized tournament play (and actually gets it to work, there were a few mesmers in TOL1, and they all got wrecked).

@blitzkrieg:
the mesmer forum actually used to be the one with the least amount of complainers. we had the mesmer podcast, we had tons of new build ideas almost every day, we would brainstorm,give helpful tips for new players, even helped people out that didnt know how to fight mesmers. so blitzkrieg instead of coming here out of nowhere attacking everyone that has a different opinion than yours and saying we are all a bunch of whiners?
sorry but many that have been very helpful and also have tried to stay positive,have just given up over the last few patches. since glamour nerf i have been waiting for something to fill that massive gap it left behind. since then even more nerfs came along that 1bt1 took a wvw raid mesmers viablity away. gw2 is neither only about gvg nor is it spvp only. there is other gamemodes that have suffered greatly for mesmers. its not fun to be a veilbot and no gvgs dont happen 24/7 either and even there mesmer can be replaced easily.
in spvp u get to kill a few hotjoin guys but people that know how to fight mesmers are not being fooled by pu or any clone..
all we want right now is for our bugs to be adressed instead of bugfixes that are actually nerfs and never even have been mentioned. and also what we want is a viable wvw build that is not ai 1v1 heavy.

since we are on the topic of mesmer skill nerf, i have some few question cuz i just start playing gw2 a year after it release.
1. have the phantasm skills cast time always been more than 3/4 sec? i find it quite handicap for us mesmer since they are: 1 effect by line of sight and, 2 blind, especially the phantasm utility skills (1 1/2 sec), it is not a fire and forget skill like necro’s minion, you have to recast every time for each enemies.
2. illusionary leap, so we have a cast time plus we have to wait for the clone to reach the target PLUS IT IS BUGED then we can swap, in my opinion, this skill should not have any cast time, every other leap skills have no cast time, i notice that Phase Retreat have no cast time, did anet add in the cast time or it is always like this?
btw, when can we expect the next skill update patch?

IMO the old use of Chaos Armour was quite warranted, although it maybe should have worked only against single-target and melee-cleave skills.

We need elements punishing fast attacks, like Confusion and Retaliation. We also need elements punishing slow attacks, only thing I can really think of is Aegis, and it is rarely applied so frequently that slower-weapon users would really notice.

well thats why confusion made sense that it dealt so much dmg. all the enemy had to do was slowing down and not hack/slash hammer stun through everything. if i got hit by confusion during glam times(and i had bad condi cleanse on my glam mes) id simply stop attacking randomly, id kite for the short duration confusion lasted.

confusion was punishing but anet took that away and turned us into a pet class with this. in gw1 mes was ultimate punishing class, id like to see some of that in gw2 mes but atm its just bugged illusions everywhere and broken skills and traits.

I see the problem also with too spammy combat in general. Nearly all abilities cast way too fast IMO. In return, Retaliation and Confusion lack meaningful damage feedback and many individual conditions lack duration (if abilities in general were less spammy, there’s be 75% less conditions or so due to the lost procs so they’d need to last longer and be stronger).

@ blitzkrieg
Oh believe me, supcutie is the only 1 of the 2 mesmers that plays with sword/focus instead of staff and I’m pretty sure he raged enough about it outside of the forum. But why would he come here, waste his time posting such stuff and potentially lose votes and/or reputation? Then again, why would he care? He’s leaning towards thief much more than towards mesmer lately and changes like this could easily push him just a little bit more so there’s only helseth left who doesn’t care if sword gets nerfed into the ground as he plays with staff/greatsword.
The other ‘’good mesmers’’ you hang out all the time with either also use GS/Staff or are just not good at all. Any good mesmer with sword could use it on 10 different ways. At the moment it’s only used for 1 and that is spam it as quickly as possible to immobilize. Of course you can still use it as teleport or as stunbreaker. But the moment you are gonna rely on things that fail 50%+ of the time, you’ll get yourself losing while you shouldn’t.

Good mesmers should know this, you on the other hand…

@blitzkrieg – I was going to reply but I see others have done it for me.

Taking shatter exclusively, “Good” at the moment => GS+Staff.

I would like to know of any mesmer using Sw/x shatter who is feeling perfectly fine right now.

GS/staff mesmers (who were already better than Sw/x before the patch) are unaffected so have little reason to complain.

That’s doesn’t foster good build variety or player experimentation.

LordByron.8369:

I disagree.
Despite everything elementalist still have seen the most severe nerfs.
To the point that had skils totally redesigned and Others nerfed of more than 200%.

Mesmer just recently saw some strong nerfs but its anet politic.
If its easy to play buff it.
If its hard to play nerf it.

We are talking WvW wise mostly, it could be that Ele’s got loads of skill changers or nerfs however your still viable in WvW. People rely on you for waters and AOE pressure, what do Mesmer’s have? A Veil, a Null Field and a Time Warp. 1/3 of these we use and people rely on us for it, the rest it’s a “Meh, only if you want to run it, we got enough Condi removal and + we don’t like bombing in one spot so you don’t need Time Warp”

Be happy Anet didn’t take away your water fields.

I know from watching helselth and supcutie’s streams in the past week that they both are not in favor of the iLeap fix and both feel it hampers the weapon. Helseth went into a long discussion a week ago on why, which are essentially the same reasons that we’ve all been talking about.

At top level play, both say sword isn’t viable – supcutie even said staff was more viable pre-nerf and now post-nerf sword is pushed way out. In soloq supcutie still uses sword for the 4/4/6 CI spec but soloq is soloq.

Helselth ultimately doesn’t care because he doesn’t play sword.

WvW Mesmer’s in 1v situations are extremely strong. If not THE strongest 1v profession. So before anyone complains about nerf’s, we can probably use more to get us better balanced.

DeWolfe.2174:

WvW Mesmer’s in 1v situations are extremely strong. If not THE strongest 1v profession. So before anyone complains about nerf’s, we can probably use more to get us better balanced.

Define strongest.

i really would like watch helseth and supcutie in any organized competitive large acale geoup.. And would like to hear what they ll think about the class in kind of zergs..

Probably will be the same words as other competitive large scale players..
Mesmer is not viable.. Just would required for veil.. if not have veil better to go other classes will be more efficient.. Because mesmer will not better melee train as guards or war.. Will not periphery hunter efficient as thiefs.. Or enemy melee pressure or support as ele or necros.. in overall productivity..

But most argument is coming from is.. " if anet already said in offical that balances include wvw(large scale mechanics) " so Wtf is this?? it is shame NOT FAiR, NOT ETHiC!!! Am i wrong

Lets do some comparetion pvp mesmer & zerg mesmer(in os gvg maybe)
Staff,

• phase retreat, where u positon your self as in spvp where staffs most efficient is come from
• chaos storm, lemon grass? Not holding point as pvp, mobile train..
• iwarlock, think to use it on periphery, projectile slow even not foe dodging, movements can evade it + plus lemon grass
• aa= efficient is more in pvp than wvw..

GS

• not much different than pvp style EXCEPT
  Possibility to hit with izerker.. if on melee train cant pressure fair compare to pvp izerken can.. How mesmer is good with group support on pressure for caps in pvp with team fights.. and if ure regular shatter in gvg and used izerker to melee train izerken can Highly obstructed/insta dead maybe without 1 hit and for insta shatter u risked your f1 for nothing.. And u know it is just only respected damage aoe skill on mesmer..

Sword,

• Blurred frenzy how is very good on team fights pressure in pvp however which is not meta..
  its meta in large scale fights cuz of lacking better positioning self compare to spvp, and most reason that it is meta cuz of posibility to ve very big bursts on u can be.. And using for veil makes u more u should closer to commander(who are very first line),
  And bf bursts in gvg is sucha lame cuz of enemies can have perma retal(organized group)

Other things large scale vs spvp

• no respawn (u cant risk as in pvp ) if u re dead your efficint become “0”
• less unconnection time, there will have constant action in gvg.. Exp in pvp there some unconnection to action beteeen caps.
• less efficient positioning( being close to thiefs) as mostly why torch is more meta or smth as mandatory.
• aoe cap, where skills can be more efficient with maxing your cap in wvw but in pvp enviroment is differ with hardly possible to max cap skill.. And other classes?

Bahhh bla bla bla just bored with these and i leap can make any sense.. ??? Bla bla bla

Yeeaah yupiiii Yess mesmer have Veillllll! its enough for everything..

just my opinions.. More/less subj/obj right/wrong

/Holyscrub
/Azo Holycrab

it seems to me fasistic, if there will be democracy.. illiterate.. Education is must