Guild Wars 2

Hi Tyrians.

I loved the Specialization Patch. It improved Mesmer by a lot in PvE.
However, i still feel like some of our Traits lines should be tweaked a bit in order to give us a stronger place in organized settings (Dungeons) and general PvE. Some examples are the Domination & Illusions GM Traits that feel very lackluster in the types of content I mentioned.

So…I will propose a list of small tweaks…and you let me know how you feel about them! DEAL?

Domination:

Mental Anguish – Shatter skills do 20% more damage. You do 10% more damage to foes not activating skills. (A MUCH NEEDED DAMAGE MODIFIER)

Inspiration:

Persisting Images – Moved to 1st Minor.
Protected Phantasms – Moved to 2nd Minor.
Phantasmal Invigoration – New 3rd Minor. Phantasms grant regeneration (3 sec) and might (2 stacks for 3 seconds) every 3 seconds to nearby allies.

(GIVING THE MINORS A MORE COHERENT THEME – PHANTASMS)

Inspiring Distortion – Moved to Adept.
Healing Prism – Moved to Adept.
Mender’s Purity – Moved to Master. Merged with Restorative Mantras.
Illusionary Inspiration – Cast Signet of Inspiration when you create a Phantasm. The Regen in now on the 3rd Minor I proposed.

Illusions:

Illusionary Retribution – 1st Minor. Remains the same.
Confusing Combatants – New 2nd Minor. You and your illusions have a chance (33%) to inflict confusion on crit (3sec).
Master of Misdirection – 3rd Minor. Remains the same.

(MINORS HAVE A MORE COHERENT THEME – CONFUSION)

Migraine - New Master. Replacing Phantasmal Haste. 5/10 % more damage to foes suffering from confusion. (DAMAGE MODIFIER)

Master of Illusions/Illusionist – New GM Trait. Replacing Ineptitude. Your illusions attack skills recharge 20% faster causing them to attack more often. Reduced recharge on illusion summoning skills. (Merge of Illusionist’s Celerity & Phantasmal Haste).

Thoughts?

Inspiration: Like in all professions, the developers have tried to bring support in different flavors. Phantasm support is one of them, hence the adept, master and GM phantasm support traits. Then there is the ‘glamour’ support, the shatter supports etc… All of these correspond to different playstyles, so they don’t fit as minor. Minor should fit in any build: condi cleanse on heal works for any build, healing prism the same. The only somewhat weird one is the distortion one, since we get it from sword, signets or shatter only… but well…

Confusing Combatants : they want to have confusion as bursts and not continuous application.

I don’t get the Mental Anguish change, pve mobs should count as “not activating skills” most of the time anyway.

Inspiration minors already have a theme, the 3 pillars of “defensive support” in GW2: healing, damage mitigation, cleansing (technically #4: defensive boons, but those go into Chaos)

Speaking of Chaos, that line is utter trash for pve, really disappointed they kept all the crappy selfish minors and added nothing of value. GMs are garbage, can’t take staff cd and +condi dmg together anymore, nothing to fuel the GM minor and replace the 30% boon duration gutted from the original line.

The Illusions changes would probably annoy power shatter pvp players quite a bit.

In general, while damage modifiers are the be-all-end-all for dungeon speedruns, they are ultimately boring and unnecessarily widen the gap between “average” and “top” builds due to multiplicative stacking. If anything make the Illusions GM something that shares all the existing personal buffs with our illusions and keep PH where it is.

Silverkey.2078:

Confusing Combatants : they want to have confusion as bursts and not continuous application.

Then make it so! How do you “burst” with and effect that achieves less maximum dps (in pve) than just maintaining bleed stacks???

@Silverkey: Totally agree with this!

@Photoloss: The change would make the 10% dmg modifier for every skill and 20% for shatter. Right now the 15% and 30% are ONLY for shatter.

@Rexx: I love the Illusions changes, since this traitline is very lackluster for pve in the grandmaster section. The other stuff however is rather important / needed. The Domination change seems a bit overkill.

The illusions changes would absolutely massacre a ton of PvP builds, they’re pretty awful. IC is integral to a lot of builds flowing properly, and ineptitude is a very strong trait right now.

@ Silverkey: While what you say is true, imo, Phantasms also fit any build. More than Healing Prism & Inspiring Distortion.

@Photoloss: The 10% would be for every skill. I feel like the GMs in this line are all very meh for PvE.

@ Fay: First of all…i’m honored by you posting in my thread.
We could move Ineptitude to Master and scrap the “Migraine” one I proposed.
And Illusionist’s Celerity is still there, i just merged it with Phantasmal Haste and made it GM.

Btw…what PvP builds do you think the Illusion changes would massacre?

Rexx.1805:

@ Silverkey: While what you say is true, imo, Phantasms also fit any build. More than Healing Prism & Inspiring Distortion.

@Photoloss: The 10% would be for every skill. I feel like the GMs in this line are all very meh for PvE.

@ Fay: First of all…i’m honored by you posting in my thread.
We could move Ineptitude to Master and scrap the “Migraine” one I proposed.
And Illusionist’s Celerity is still there, i just merged it with Phantasmal Haste and made it GM.

Btw…what PvP builds do you think the Illusion changes would massacre?

Well, pretty much all the condie ones atm. Ineptitude is pretty key for a lot of them, and being forced to trait specifically to get the IC cooldown would be incredibly damaging.

IC has always been a minor trait, and really belongs there. Suddenly changing it to a major would be bad, similar to how chaotic transference suddenly becoming a major that conflicts with chaotic dampening is very bad.

Fay.2357:

Well, pretty much all the condie ones atm. Ineptitude is pretty key for a lot of them, and being forced to trait specifically to get the IC cooldown would be incredibly damaging.

IC has always been a minor trait, and really belongs there. Suddenly changing it to a major would be bad, similar to how chaotic transference suddenly becoming a major that conflicts with chaotic dampening is very bad.

“Confusing Combatants” as an Illusion Minor would somewhat compensate the “Ineptitude” new placement. But I do see your point.
The things I’m suggesting are PvE focused but we could tweak them to minimize the “strain” on PvP.

What do you think of the changes considering just PvE?

Uh, why exactly are you forcing 3 worthless Confusion minors on pve players then? And why no mention of the Chaos traitline, which is absolutely worthless even if you want to play boon support.

Rexx.1805:

Fay.2357:

Well, pretty much all the condie ones atm. Ineptitude is pretty key for a lot of them, and being forced to trait specifically to get the IC cooldown would be incredibly damaging.

IC has always been a minor trait, and really belongs there. Suddenly changing it to a major would be bad, similar to how chaotic transference suddenly becoming a major that conflicts with chaotic dampening is very bad.

“Confusing Combatants” as an Illusion Minor would somewhat compensate the “Ineptitude” new placement. But I do see your point.
The things I’m suggesting are PvE focused but we could tweak them to minimize the “strain” on PvP.

What do you think of the changes considering just PvE?

PvE they’d be fine, but you can’t ignore half of the game when making changes. A set of traits needs to have both PvP and PvE options.

Currently, illusions GMs lack PvE options because shatters are awful in PvE. Ultimately, shatters need to become less awful in PvE if a lot of this stuff is to make sense at all.

I don’t think we are doing so bad in PvE that we need to fix things. But yes, most GM are not so useful there, and I think it is because they want us to shatter… And maybe we should shatter more. I haven’t done calculations to see how useful could shatter be now with IP baseline and persistence of memory, but I am not so optimistic. It just takes so much time to summon phantasms that even if we have our phantasms and signet off-CD, shattering + respawning phantasms is not worth it.

Photoloss.4817:

Uh, why exactly are you forcing 3 worthless Confusion minors on pve players then? And why no mention of the Chaos traitline, which is absolutely worthless even if you want to play boon support.

Because I also proposed a 10% damage modifier to foes suffering from Confusion in the same line?

Yes, I’m not exactly sure but it seems I can’t get more than 7k damage on a mind wrack, while our sword AA is 5k DPS. So it we take more than 1.5s to respawn the dead phantasms, we are loosing DPS (as always this is in an ideal situation, if our phantasms are going to die anyway…)

This is my criteria when choosing the GMs in Domination & Illusions (PvE):

“Choose the least useless one!”

Rexx.1805:

Because I also proposed a 10% damage modifier to foes suffering from Confusion in the same line?

And then your first concession to PvP players was to drop that trait, plus it is boring. And you’re still ignoring Chaos…

Rexx.1805:

Mender’s Purity – Moved to Master. Merged with Restorative Mantras.

NO! Leave Mender’s Purity alone! I am glad I can take Mender’s Purity and Medic’s Feedback OR with a Mantra Build Mender’s Purity and Restorative Mantras.

Confusing Combatants – New 2nd Minor. You and your illusions have a chance (33%) to inflict confusion on crit (3sec).

We don’t need more passive condition procs. We want more active condition play (e.g. with a buffed Maim the Disillusioned)

Silverkey.2078:

The only somewhat weird one is the distortion one, since we get it from sword, signets or shatter only… but well….

Sword gives Blur, not Distortion. Functionally, it’s the same, but it won’t count as Distortion.

Photoloss.4817:

Rexx.1805:

Because I also proposed a 10% damage modifier to foes suffering from Confusion in the same line?

And then your first concession to PvP players was to drop that trait, plus it is boring. And you’re still ignoring Chaos…

Hi again Photo. I’m ignoring Chaos because that line (like Defense, Earth Magic, Shadow Arts, …) is more geared for PvP and making it good in PvE would require massive changes. Fixing that is way beyond my capabilities.

Domination, Illusions & Inspiration already have a place in PvE…and making them better is much easier.

Btw…i’m just giving ideas for people to discuss & Devs to consider. They’re not final and it’s normal if some of them are bad, annoying, etc. Work in progress…

Question: Of the changes I proposed which ones did you like? (It’s fine if you say “none!”) :P

Rexx.1805:

Hi again Photo. I’m ignoring Chaos because that line (like Defense, Earth Magic, Shadow Arts, …) is more geared for PvP and making it good in PvE would require massive changes. Fixing that is way beyond my capabilities.

Domination, Illusions & Inspiration already have a place in PvE…and making them better is much easier.

Btw…i’m just giving ideas for people to discuss & Devs to consider. They’re not final and it’s normal if some of them are bad, annoying, etc. Work in progress…

Question: Of the changes I proposed which ones did you like? (It’s fine if you say “none!”) :P

Thing is, Chaos wouldn’t take that much work imho: Make Chaotic Dampening give 5% per tick or even more, but reduce Protection to whatever the sPvP crowd considers “acceptable”. Un-nerf MtD, maybe buff the staff auto (mesmer only, not the clones). Bam, AoE condi-shatter build with tons of party-wide boons, complementary option for every use other than nuking down a boss in an organised speedrun. At least in theory.

As for your suggestions, Mental Anguish might as well give +30%dmg flat in PvE, or +100% shatter damage or something. Thing is, with only 5 spots in a party someone will always be left out of the very top rungs in terms of world record speedruns, and below that mesmers offer so many things other classes can’t provide (in particular, much like engi, a bit of everything)

The Inspiration rework is “different”, not necessarily “better”: wasting half a trait when not using mantra heal (when the other half is really good in itself) is a problem, and not being able to trait Focus and mantra heal greatly diminishes the maximum support potential. Having Persisting Images and Protected Phantasms forced on you is a bit overkill, in particular Persisting Images is more of a niche pick (many bosses can 1shot phantasms regardless of this trait)

Illusionist GM, on second reading, would really annoy PvPers since you mention “illusions” and not “phantasms”. IC and confusion/damage modifiers have already been discussed.

Really, if you only want to eke out more damage modifiers a much cleaner solution would be to increase the skill coefficients of autoattacks, MoP and shatters, then reduce the base values so sPvP stays at the same level. The higher PvE gear stats and 25might will massively increase the maximum dps without any skill splits or fodder traits. Same with conditions, give a non-zero base stat dependent on game mode instead of “base direct damage”. Oh, and double all Healing Power coefficients except the Regen boon.

Esplen.3940:

Silverkey.2078:

The only somewhat weird one is the distortion one, since we get it from sword, signets or shatter only… but well….

Sword gives Blur, not Distortion. Functionally, it’s the same, but it won’t count as Distortion.

Blur is evade. Distortion is invulnerability. Functionally they are very different.

Fay.2357:

Esplen.3940:

Silverkey.2078:

The only somewhat weird one is the distortion one, since we get it from sword, signets or shatter only… but well….

Sword gives Blur, not Distortion. Functionally, it’s the same, but it won’t count as Distortion.

Blur is evade. Distortion is invulnerability. Functionally they are very different.

Ah yah, you’re right. I’m still living in the age of Lightning Shield not stunning through BF.

Just had a neat idea for a PvE Chaos trait:
Intention: To provide a pve-oriented support option aimed primarily at Staff and “slightly sub-optimal” group play.

Chaotic Inversion: Your first-slot weapon skills apply Might around struck foes (1-2 stacks, 5-10s ?), and a damaging condition around struck allies (thematically Confusion/Torment, best for PvE Bleeding/Burning, potency similar to WoC or slightly less). Does not affect clones’ or phantasms’ attacks. Works with all weapons, but is obviously geared towards Staff and cleaving Sword hits.

In terms of placement, anywhere that doesn’t clash with Chaotic Dampening or Chaotic Persistence should be fine. Minors could be merged, Descent Into Madness/Illusionary Defense/Mirror Of Anguish could be merged (3->2 I mean), or maybe the GM traits could be shuffled a bit.

To the PvP naysayers: keep in mind you need an ally within ~melee range of an enemy for this trait to have any benefit at all. Stealth-campers, run-in-circles-while-phantasms-kill-stuff and shatter burst builds should get little to no benefit out of it due to Revealed, limited AoE and ramp-up respectively. Again, only your own autoattacks would buff people, not clones!

To any Anet devs potentially reading this: Note most of the standard Staff cadence is instant-cast, leaving you with ample room for autoattacks in between, rather than being forced to “1-afk”. Since clones don’t benefit in any way you’re also encouraged to shatter frequently, rather than letting said clones pile up conditions or /dancing while phantasms do the work for you.

Any concerns beyond numerical effectiveness? @Rexx: this is not meant to out-dps the Dom-Duel-Insp/Ill “max damage” builds, nor to render Phalanx warriors obsolete.