I want to know if there will ever be skills added to the mesmer class to actually defend or kill the thief class. because when i Wvw roam and run into a thief im pretty much dead on the spot.
and strongly think that is really * to be honest Cant you guys look into adding more actual damage skills to the mesmer class or something that makes them able to actually last more then 10sec against a thief i mean all they do is spam pistol+heart seeker. and if its other sword or whatever its just easy spamming of the skill.
I mean jeez I can last as long as my dodges are there which is (2) after that i just get melted.. Even the elite skills of a mesmer is to be laughed at, whats the use of invisible when fighting a thief, or moa when he blinds you and it doesnt work. i mean come on think of what you would like to use when playing the class.
Yeah, what build do you use, what game types are you playing in, and how much practice do you have? I rarely lose to thieves anymore, even in shatter builds.
I mean jeez I can last as long as my dodges are there which is (2) after that i just get melted..
You also have access to leaps, evade and block skills, aegis, invuln, invis, vigor, blind, and even portals so be creative and use some of your class defense.
Preparation: Prepare a torch off-hand and decoy. Blink is great for distance making, too.
Step 1. Use stealth skills after the thief. If thief is C&D, dodge it/make distance.
Step 2. Summon phantasms after the thief re-appears.
Step 3. Repeat #1-#2 until the thief is dead.
Having played a thief yourself makes them laughable easy to deal with. Try one
Against a good thief you will most likely lose, there are a number of things in favour of the thief. He has stealth on demand off your clones if he is c’n’d or just in general with the leap from heartseeker. So the window in which to get phants up is small and even if you do a good thief will realise this is a good time to reset the fight and return later. A good thief will be patient knowing you have a finite amount of stealth whereas he can enter readily via c’n’d or heartseeker leap.
You can start the fight at 50% health if he gets the drop on you with a big frontloaded backstab. You are instantly on the backfoot here and most likely burning a decoy or blink to get some distance/disengage to recover. This can also occur at any moment during the fight if you make a mistake.
Mobility, it cannot be understated but even outside stealth a thief can simply run away from a mesmer if things arnt going his way and reset the fight. This is opposite for the mesmer, you cannot escape a good thief if he gets the upper hand.
The steal for a thief is awesome against a mesmer, consume ectoplasm.
You avoid the damage but he still gets the stealth from the clone you just spawned via deceptive evasion. Which is really what he wants anyway, the damage, if it lands, is just icing.
Here’s my advice:
Instead of pretending to know everything about both classes and blaming the game because you’re losing to something, maybe actually learn to play better and overcome the difficulties with your own abilities.
In general, thieves usually counter mesmers. That’s just the way it is. That doesn’t make it unfair. Mesmers usually counter other classes.
Here’s my advice:
Instead of pretending to know everything about both classes and blaming the game because you’re losing to something, maybe actually learn to play better and overcome the difficulties with your own abilities.
In general, thieves usually counter mesmers. That’s just the way it is. That doesn’t make it unfair. Mesmers usually counter other classes.
Could you tell me what classes mesmers counter exactly because I can’t seem to find any. You could say condimancer but that’s literally one class spec amongst many and it’s not even that prevalent in tpvp/wvw. You could say we do well against other classes but I don’t see how we counter anything at all in pvps current state.
Also thieves counter almost all glass cannon specs. That’s what makes it unfair.
If you run PU power vs a P/D thief in a duel situation, make sure us toughness food, healing mantra IDefender and sword/Torch – Scepter/sword(or pistol). Make sure to trait 3% defense / clone and clone on dodge. DO NOT USE GS a good thief own you then.
The healing mantra will give max heal possible. Also spec 10-20-30-10 for condi clear on heal and retalitation. This setup work wonders for me, most thiefs die, some I have endless draws vs.
For shatters its reflexes good use of daze and nuke when you can. Some vids here:
if it is a d/p 30 SA thief who knows what he is doing then you are probably going to lose. These are the perma-stealth guys that you will see in WvW.
blocks are your friend either scepter or offhand sword (which hits glass thieves really hard)
all else being equal the thief has a huge advantage. it is not so much the stealth as it is the blinds. I don’t even bother with them anymore and I don’t play d/p on my thief either. It is totally imba
Here’s my advice:
Instead of pretending to know everything about both classes and blaming the game because you’re losing to something, maybe actually learn to play better and overcome the difficulties with your own abilities.
In general, thieves usually counter mesmers. That’s just the way it is. That doesn’t make it unfair. Mesmers usually counter other classes.
First part of your post you blame the player…and you knock this guy saying that he’s blaming the game…
and then it gets real good because you blame the game calling the thief a counter to mesmers.
lol…..
I want to know what classes mesmers counter. I can have some pretty good fights vs thieves, guards and warriors. If they don’t run…or pull the plug on the game….
Shadowbane DarkAges Of Camelot WoW AION WarHammer GuildWars2
Thief beating a Mesmer? Are you new? I’m not bashing you, just wondering what experience you have, because you really shouldn’t lose to thief unless they got their full burst combo off and you didn’t see it coming in which case it’s kind of what coined the term “glass cannon”.
“I’m waiting for the staff to get off their lunch
break. I feel like they should be back by now..”
I have to agree with the OP. I also find thieves hard to beat in WvW. They seem to know that they have the advantage against another light armour class, because they tend to go straight for the mesmer, especially when roaming or if you are trying to join a zerg. the thing I find hard is when they come out of stealth and crit hit me for about 3/4 of my health (I have between 18-19k).
If I see a thief first it’s more of a fair fight. Most of the time they surprise me from behind and I’m pretty much dead. Not particularly a fun fight. I tend to run a build similar to the PU power build and have 2300 toughness. In general I find the narrow field of view in GW2 to be quite off putting, especially for a kiting class like the mesmer. It’s the first MMO I’ve played that doesn’t allow significant zoom out, which I’m finding hard to get use to with a kiting class. Adding increased zoom out on the camera would likely help.
If I see a thief first it’s more of a fair fight. Most of the time they surprise me from behind and I’m pretty much dead.
So this is a bit of a learn to play issue is the thing. Thieves, contrary to popular belief, don’t roam around in stealth constantly. If you keep your camera moving, keep aware of your surroundings, you will almost always see thieves before they engage on you.
If you are dying to thieves in a 1v1 you should prolly head into the obsidian sanctum to practice against some thieves
You got embarrassed by Sensotix last time you tried to troll a mesmer thread spouting the same garbage. Thief > mesmer is one of the hardest counters in the meta atm.
+1 for dueling in the mists.
+1 for 3v3 or 2v2 deathmatch
Thief > mesmer is one of the hardest counters in the meta atm.
Sorta. Thief counters the standard meta builds that are capable of being particularly useful in a tPvP situation. There are other builds that can rip thieves apart, but they aren’t viable in an organized team for other reasons.
If you are dying to thieves in a 1v1 you should prolly head into the obsidian sanctum to practice against some thieves
You got embarrassed by Sensotix last time you tried to troll a mesmer thread spouting the same garbage. Thief > mesmer is one of the hardest counters in the meta atm.
Uh that one mesmer fella who fails against thieves but the rest of us can take on 2
Some thieves run from me, some I was able to take time and laugh at them during the fight and some kill me every time. As a class thieves can kill every other class in 1v1 fights. In reality it depends on the player. If every thief kills you sorry to say it but you suck as a mesmer. Try war. It is easy mode.
Here’s my advice:
Instead of pretending to know everything about both classes and blaming the game because you’re losing to something, maybe actually learn to play better and overcome the difficulties with your own abilities.
In general, thieves usually counter mesmers. That’s just the way it is. That doesn’t make it unfair. Mesmers usually counter other classes.
Could you tell me what classes mesmers counter exactly because I can’t seem to find any. You could say condimancer but that’s literally one class spec amongst many and it’s not even that prevalent in tpvp/wvw. You could say we do well against other classes but I don’t see how we counter anything at all in pvps current state.
Also thieves counter almost all glass cannon specs. That’s what makes it unfair.
Conditionmancer is actually pretty decent against mesmers, because of their lack of condition cleanse.
I can tell you a few classes I find Mesmers are strong against, but it also greatly depends on your build and the opponent’s build.
Tell me what kind of build you’re using and I’ll try to describe what enemies you’re strong against.
Axel i have to disagree with you. Mesmers have an exellent cond management but 90% prefer to use other skills instead of cond removals.
Mendels purity if you use mantra of recovery as a heal removes 2+2 cond instantly or 2 every time with any other healing skill. Mantra of resolve removes another 4 instantly. Null field.
I always run mantra of resolve. Usually it is enough in 1v1 fights with almost every cond build. So far i have an issue only with good cond engis. They can melt me in seconds. Necros not so much and cond thieves are my favored type to fight. Fast glass cannons are much worst.
If you are only interested in winning against average to bad thieves. Stationary phantasms are pretty much the worst thing to use against good to great thieves. They are just CnD fodder.
PU will rock thieves all day, but i personally hate PU cuz they can just run if they want, and i feel useless in group fights.
I personally run GS S/S and can beat a majority of theives. But vs the absolute best thieves its about 50/50 because of trying to get a phatasm off with all the blind spam is rough.
Axel i have to disagree with you. Mesmers have an exellent cond management but 90% prefer to use other skills instead of cond removals.
Mendels purity if you use mantra of recovery as a heal removes 2+2 cond instantly or 2 every time with any other healing skill. Mantra of resolve removes another 4 instantly. Null field.
I always run mantra of resolve. Usually it is enough in 1v1 fights with almost every cond build. So far i have an issue only with good cond engis. They can melt me in seconds. Necros not so much and cond thieves are my favored type to fight. Fast glass cannons are much worst.
I was referring to the lack of condition cleanse in weapon skills.
Of course you should take a condition cleanse in your utilities, but that doesn’t suddenly make you a counter to condition Necromancers. It will help you deal with them, but any decent Necromancer will let the fight drag on till you can’t take it any more.
Axel i have to disagree with you. Mesmers have an exellent cond management but 90% prefer to use other skills instead of cond removals.
Mendels purity if you use mantra of recovery as a heal removes 2+2 cond instantly or 2 every time with any other healing skill. Mantra of resolve removes another 4 instantly. Null field.
I always run mantra of resolve. Usually it is enough in 1v1 fights with almost every cond build. So far i have an issue only with good cond engis. They can melt me in seconds. Necros not so much and cond thieves are my favored type to fight. Fast glass cannons are much worst.
I was referring to the lack of condition cleanse in weapon skills.
Of course you should take a condition cleanse in your utilities, but that doesn’t suddenly make you a counter to condition Necromancers. It will help you deal with them, but any decent Necromancer will let the fight drag on till you can’t take it any more.
Depends on which cleanse you take. pDisenchanter is a defacto hard counter to condimancers.
Against a good thief you will most likely lose, there are a number of things in favour of the thief. He has stealth on demand off your clones if he is c’n’d or just in general with the leap from heartseeker. So the window in which to get phants up is small and even if you do a good thief will realise this is a good time to reset the fight and return later. A good thief will be patient knowing you have a finite amount of stealth whereas he can enter readily via c’n’d or heartseeker leap.
You can start the fight at 50% health if he gets the drop on you with a big frontloaded backstab. You are instantly on the backfoot here and most likely burning a decoy or blink to get some distance/disengage to recover. This can also occur at any moment during the fight if you make a mistake.
Mobility, it cannot be understated but even outside stealth a thief can simply run away from a mesmer if things arnt going his way and reset the fight. This is opposite for the mesmer, you cannot escape a good thief if he gets the upper hand.
The steal for a thief is awesome against a mesmer, consume ectoplasm.
You avoid the damage but he still gets the stealth from the clone you just spawned via deceptive evasion. Which is really what he wants anyway, the damage, if it lands, is just icing.
I utterly disagree with your overall take, and think a lot of it comes down to build and experience.
I utterly disagree with your overall take, and think a lot of it comes down to build and experience.
Look ive rocked my fair share of terrible, average and even good thieves, lots of them, i have about 300 ranks all in small man and solo roam. But against really class players on thief who are patient it is always an uphill battle.
And the fact they can reset the fight if you do get the upper hand with a few phantasms. It’s only the bad thieves that hang around trying to kill you when you have an izerker and iduelist up just waiting for the thief to come out of stealth. Those bad thieves deserve to die, especially when they have the option to reset the fight, which pops the phants. Then come back and try again.
And as people have mentioned you can respec specifically for a fight against a thief, but that isnt really a true reflection of roaming battles. I dont respec specifically for a fight vs 1 class. I use GS mostly because of the nice damage it provides over the staff survivability, and tbh i got tired of people just running away from me when i was Blackwater build so i play a bit of a hybrid atm.
@ OP what is your toughness when being melted on average? If you are full zerker, i.e. around 930ish, then adding about 400-500 toughness will cut the direct dmg you take by around 20-30%. So you’ll have 20-30% more hp remaining after that initial opener, which is a pretty big difference. If you spread the stats out right you still will have plenty of dmg left over to kill the thief quickly, as the are most likely pretty glass.
A little shift towards toughness I find goes a long way when fighting thieves. For an example check out Osicat’s most recent shatter build, ghost or something. He goes mostly knight armor and weapons and zerker trinkets, more or less, and you can see the stats he manages with that. You can get similar without too much cost and it should help significantly.
Axel i have to disagree with you. Mesmers have an exellent cond management but 90% prefer to use other skills instead of cond removals.
Mendels purity if you use mantra of recovery as a heal removes 2+2 cond instantly or 2 every time with any other healing skill. Mantra of resolve removes another 4 instantly. Null field.
I always run mantra of resolve. Usually it is enough in 1v1 fights with almost every cond build. So far i have an issue only with good cond engis. They can melt me in seconds. Necros not so much and cond thieves are my favored type to fight. Fast glass cannons are much worst.
I was referring to the lack of condition cleanse in weapon skills.
Of course you should take a condition cleanse in your utilities, but that doesn’t suddenly make you a counter to condition Necromancers. It will help you deal with them, but any decent Necromancer will let the fight drag on till you can’t take it any more.
Depends on which cleanse you take. pDisenchanter is a defacto hard counter to condimancers.
It is but i didn’t mention it coz it has real bad synergy with Deceptive Evasion and Mirror Images. It has long animation and easily destroyed not even by opponent but usually by yourself. In PVE tho against high cond bosses in long fights it is very good.
If you are only interested in winning against average to bad thieves. Stationary phantasms are pretty much the worst thing to use against good to great thieves. They are just CnD fodder.
PU will rock thieves all day, but i personally hate PU cuz they can just run if they want, and i feel useless in group fights.
I personally run GS S/S and can beat a majority of theives. But vs the absolute best thieves its about 50/50 because of trying to get a phatasm off with all the blind spam is rough.
I of course come from the viewpoint of sPvP, seeing as WvW can scarcely be considered when complaining about/discussing balance, I just hope this is realised.
In which case my point still stands un-changed seeing as the game-type is Conquest, and stealth then contributes to nothing.
If you lose to a Theif and you have Illusionary Duellist on hand, it’s not that the Theif is average, you’re definitely an average Mesmer.
When i say good thief with c’n’d this is what i mean, he even makes a few mistakes, unloads on a clone etc. But we are all human it’s rare a fight goes 100% perfectly. Mesmers have 2 iZerkers and an iDuelist up at 1 stage.
I did find thief also impossible, but not now. I think a lot of it is to do with me getting better at the game and also the build am using.
This coming from sPVP game play, I meeting them too often which helped me learn how to counter them. What I do is try to lock them down and offload on them fast. Getting a jumped, in most cases, I will lose but sometime turned the match around to get a kill.
And yes I have gone against two at once 99% it over for me but there was this one time when I manage to take one out and the other down to 20% ish before hitting the deck myself.
I will say practices some more and maybe change your build.
When i say good thief with c’n’d this is what i mean, he even makes a few mistakes, unloads on a clone etc. But we are all human it’s rare a fight goes 100% perfectly. Mesmers have 2 iZerkers and an iDuelist up at 1 stage.
I am not saying this guy is not good but video is more about how little ppl understand right way to fight thieves.
Newer try to revive anyone when thief in stealth around, use AOE over downed player or traps or just keep hitting empty space over him. By reviving you usually not gonna save your friend but also let thief breathing time to get into full health. Only mesmer and thief can revive downed player in that situation. They should use mass invis or SR and then revive.
PPL in video don’t take any advantage from NPC or enviroment. Why fight him on the wall and not in the middle of 4 friendly guards on the top.
1 thing i am 100% sure. If mesmer and thief have same skill lvl as players thief wins in 90%. Thieves have an advantage against any other class in the game in 1v1 fights.
1 thing i am 100% sure. If mesmer and thief have same skill lvl as players thief wins in 90%. Thieves have an advantage against any other class in the game in 1v1 fights.
This is what im talking about. I think we have all killed our fair share of thieves but against a good thief that is patient and knows how to use his c’n’d effectively. It is always an uphill battle.
When i say good thief with c’n’d this is what i mean, he even makes a few mistakes, unloads on a clone etc. But we are all human it’s rare a fight goes 100% perfectly. Mesmers have 2 iZerkers and an iDuelist up at 1 stage.
He is good, or rather has access to a good class mechanic (stealth) which turns the Mesmers AI into a predictable attack HE CONTROLLS. So saying he’s good is saying he has a solid understanding of the game, which is what the best need. That said, look at what he’s fighting. iDuelist and iZerker power phantasm builds, with predictable old offensive GS (and iLeap/sword combos).
Maybe he wouldn’t die (a good thief can always run away), but he’d never be able to put me in the position he did those mesmers. Utter reliance on Ai = fail.
Blink and decoy your way out of the encounter and hope that there’s other friendly players nearby.
I love Mesmer, but 1 versus anything in WvW is pretty sucky for this class, thief being the worst encounter of all.
Bro we are second best class for 1v1. Thieves are #1. I would put mesmers at #3 and engy at #1 but good engy is very rare. In my experience 1 of 10 engys you see in WVW can play his profession well.
Yeah, but that’s only if you’re playing a meta build and even then, your mobility will be severely lacking compared to most other classes except for necromancer.
Yeah, but that’s only if you’re playing a meta build and even then, your mobility will be severely lacking compared to most other classes except for necromancer.
Travelers rune or rune of speed. Check Osicat vids and builds. What do you call meta? We have PU we have Phat we have Shatt we can be power we can be cond and every build if played right in 1v1 can be awesome.
Yeah, but that’s only if you’re playing a meta build and even then, your mobility will be severely lacking compared to most other classes except for necromancer.
