Guild Wars 2

So I’m not gonna stand here and say mantra mesmer wasnt broken. It could burst literally any class 100-0, if you need proof of it go watch the recent AG tourny on GameWithStorm’s account and go to the temple fight. Although it was spotlighted during the stream, watch the bunker guardian 1v1 a mantra mesmer and see his health go from full will all buffs but protection to zero. That shouldnt happen.

Here’s what Anet did to mesmer after seeing that:
Got rid of the possibility of running mantra as it now (heal for example) has a 10s CD, a almost 1 second charge up, and if you dont trait for that mantra it does something like 2k heal? Speccing into it gives something like 6-7k heal. When instead you can go for a guaranteed 20s heal, over 6-7k almost guaranteed because you have dodge clones on PU build.

Additionally, they were like, y’know what. That’s not enough. Not enough what so ever. We need to destroy ALL mesmer builds. So lets nerf GS damage by removing a mirror blade. All this from 1 simple build.

Now, we as mesmer have 2 builds to choose from if we dont want to become food for the entire game. PU mesmer who has had about a 3k damage nerf on greatsword. or Bunker mesmer. Cause having to charge up your burst for a total of 2 seconds (both mantras) to land a very easily told burst wasnt enough.

If Anet wanted a balanced game they would’ve nerfed the healing after channeling mantras or got rid of that trait in general. and Boom. 5.2k healing gone on a mantra mesmer.

Anet— If you wanted to make a balanced nerf you would have realised that mesmer was broken but it was a quick patch to fix. You destroyed the class and welcomed back the boring cele meta of about a month ago. This meta was exciting. 1 mistake and you’re dead against any class and rotations had to be on point. I hope you nerf the survive on ele’s soon so we can get back to a meta that’s exciting like that. Cause this meta is going to be the tankiest we’ve seen since there will be no damage to counter it.

I’m prepared to see 2 dd ele, 2 cele necro, engi comps now since there is no consequence to running cele necro now and it can kill DD ele’s and nearly any class in the meta now. But don’t worry, it’s a high tier meta spec on the most favored NA team, it wont be nerfed

If anyone wants to argue that the meta before this one was broken (besides a simple nerf to mantra mesmer) please let me know. I would love to have that conversation.

Invis/bunker meta if you run a mesmer and otherwise cele meta incoming. Hope you enjoy it! Cause y’know, too many people qq about not dodging 2 skills on a mesmer and not focusing them and RIP. So sad.

I won’t be quitting the game like it sounds I will, but man. Anet kittened up hard.

I would gladly give away Confounding Suggestions turning dazes into stuns if it meant getting my Mirror Blade back.

Amen dude, Mirror blade nerfed every mesmer in the game, Not just mantras. such a piece of kitten change.

Obviously the burst classes (starting with mesmer now) will be brought back down so far that celestial monkeys will run around for another year or two. kitten this.

Heal mantra will also heal allies if you have the trait. It also gives you bonus damage stacks.

Mantra shatter mesmer doesn’t seem completely nonviable, it just seems like you can’t faceroll it anymore since you won’t be able to stunlock as frequently. That does mean that PU zerk will probably outdo it though.

The FotM mesmers will probably stop playing it as much for now, but I’d say that the top mesmer mains on NA like Mime and Zeromis will still continue to run mesmer, even if its not mantra that they go with.

As a partial necro main, I’m giddy with excitement that the rapage nerf will likely push warrior out of meta status, and cele necro seems the most likely candidate to take its spot, especially since cele necro handles PU mesmer far better than mantra due to not worrying about constant interrupts and perma-condi-cleanse. The only other competitors are ranger and engi. Ranger is well, ranger, and engi can’t abuse celestial stats anymore, so necro finally stands a good shot at becoming meta just from anets nerfing sprees alone. And this is good, since necro was only really meta for a month when dhuumfire was created.

I logged in just to point out that if you want to make any claim on the forum regarding a class, you should actually KNOW that class (and if you main it, well.. I have bad news for you).

Slininstien.7546:

Got rid of the possibility of running mantra as it now (heal for example) has a 10s CD, a almost 1 second charge up, and if you dont trait for that mantra it does something like 2k heal? Speccing into it gives something like 6-7k heal.

I gives ~2000 HP per charge on a Zerk amulet, meaning that, if you just spec for mantras, you got ~6000 HP and if you precasted (like any decent mesmer would have done) you could could have re-cast it (2600 HP) and use it again (another ~6000 HP x3), which would also trigger Mender’s Purity which would also trigger an additional Harmonious Mantra Stack. So yeah. It’s not a simple “6-7k heal”.

Slininstien.7546:

Additionally, they were like, y’know what. That’s not enough. Not enough what so ever. We need to destroy ALL mesmer builds. So lets nerf GS damage by removing a mirror blade. All this from 1 simple build.

That doesn’t even come close to destroying all mesmer builds. For a period of time (when Helseth dropped staff) mostly everyone dropped iElasticity for the recharge on shatter at 50% health. That attack crits for 1.5-2k on a Berserker (not even marauder) build. I doubt 2k less damage (if you were good enough to even let the 3rd bounce hit) would destroy mesmers.

Slininstien.7546:

If Anet wanted a balanced game they would’ve nerfed the healing after channeling mantras or got rid of that trait in general. and Boom. 5.2k healing gone on a mantra mesmer.

Aaaaaaand again you missed the point: the lockdown. THAT is what Anet wanted to nerf, and by doing so (which was just like pre-patch) they assured people that yes, they can still be stunlocked, but there’s a short window of time (those 20s) in which they are somewhat “safe”.

The only nerf I didn’t understand was the reduction from 4% to 3% for the stack of Harmonius Mantra. I mean, you give up an extra clone for that, and it’s not actually that easy to reach 5 stacks of it (given that it lasts 8s) withouth mindlessly spamming mantras. This also affected PVE (oh noes), as long as I know.

Now let’s wait for ele nerf, and I’ll be happy.

I’m not really good with mesmer, and looking at the patch I didn’t see huge nerf at mesmer, a little for mantra, but PU shatter look still OP?

And what does a single bounce could do against the class: just 2k less damage?
Mirror Blade: Reduced number of bounces from 4 to 3.

Mantra’s are still very viable, but you have to use the trait for it now, which is perfectly fine. I didn’t use the trait before and was able to just fire mantras of distraction into the air to recast and get 2 casts again, that’s just too powerful. Now, you have to be a bit more careful with it, which is perfectly fine. Heal Mantra with 3 casts is still very strong and the 10s CD isn’t too long at all. I think they balanced the mantras very well.

Ele not getting nerfed is weird, but I think they wanna use ele as a baseline now, because it’s actually hard to balance the D/D-Ele without hurting all other ele-builds.

Other than that, they buffed Ranger and Engi quite a bit, therefore creating alternatives to mass-D/D-Eles (since both can fit the role of a D/D-Ele).

War probably got the short end of the stick, but rampage-nerf was necessary, even though it’s what really made war picked quite often in competetive PvP.

balance-wise, it was IMHO a very good step.

They better fix ele sustain fast because their elite specialization is coming out. They are already tanky enough too. While they are currently balanced, elementalist wont be in the future.

PowerBottom.5796:

balance-wise, it was IMHO a very good step.

…..

You

PowerBottom.5796:

Ele not getting nerfed is weird, but I think they wanna use ele as a baseline now, because it’s actually hard to balance the D/D-Ele without hurting all other ele-builds.

Reducing the burning stacks from crossing Ring of Fire border from 3 to 1, reducing the duration of cleansing Fire burning from 4s to 3s (one less tick) and finally increasing Drake’s Breath CD from 5s to 8s (meaning that the skill would be, with -33% CD, on a 5¼s CD) might be steps in the right direction.

Less burning damage is one of the keys to achieve that. Of course these nerfs wouldn’t suffice alone, but I sympathize with the “little steps in the right direction ’till we get it” policy.

If they nerfed stop drop and roll too there might even be counterplay for conditions…

Hard to balance D/D ele without affecting all other ele builds? Guess Mirror Blade never got that message. Heck, the mantra recharge and Harmonious Mantra nerf hurt even mesmers in PvE, arguably more than those in PvP.

PowerBottom.5796:

Ele not getting nerfed is weird, but I think they wanna use ele as a baseline now

Lol good one, where is our +50% damage buff on all skills? Where is our ability to support teammates both offensively and defensively in one build, without ruining our damage output? Where is our viable WvW zerg damage build? Where is our compensation for the burning changes, they didn’t even adjust staff auto?

Photoloss.4817:

PowerBottom.5796:

Ele not getting nerfed is weird, but I think they wanna use ele as a baseline now

Lol good one, where is our +50% damage buff on all skills? Where is our ability to support teammates both offensively and defensively in one build, without ruining our damage output? Where is our viable WvW zerg damage build? Where is our compensation for the burning changes, they didn’t even adjust staff auto?

are you kittenn kidding me xD

DHawk.2687:

are you kittenn kidding me xD

Look at what ele can do in PvE/WvW zergs. What can we do instead? 1v1 noobs so they cry for more nerfs.

Lol, I kinda wanna say trolling but after these past few weeks even I can’t be sure anymore.

Elementalists are pretty much standard in every game mode. Between might stacking, water fields+group heals/cleanses and some pretty great DPS, ele is pretty much guaranteed a slot in the party no matter what you’re doing.

Putting my two cents here to not have to make another topic:

The ‘bug’ the mantras had, at least for Mantra of Resolve, was perfect. My build revolves around this Mantra (and torch cleanses). Honestly, I don’t care about any other mantras and if they get nerfed or buffed. But this condi cleanse during the ‘bug’ was essential. You couldn’t repeatedly cleanse yourself of 2 condis because you still had that 20 second cd (and an almost 3 second charge time) but more of strategically using it though. Now it’s complete and utter junk. Give some thought into reducing the CD or changing this mantra back to the ‘bug’ style.

Lunatic.4928:

Putting my two cents here to not have to make another topic:

The ‘bug’ the mantras had, at least for Mantra of Resolve, was perfect. My build revolves around this Mantra (and torch cleanses). Honestly, I don’t care about any other mantras and if they get nerfed or buffed. But this condi cleanse during the ‘bug’ was essential. You couldn’t repeatedly cleanse yourself of 2 condis because you still had that 20 second cd (and an almost 3 second charge time) but more of strategically using it though. Now it’s complete and utter junk. Give some thought into reducing the CD or changing this mantra back to the ‘bug’ style.

yes my thought as well, make it individual for the mantras instead of simply changing all of them, having them adjusted to what their purpouse is would balance the class better than just flat out copy pasting a nerf throughout all mantras

i dont understand the OP, so your acknowleging something was MASSIVELY overpowered and saying it should not have been nerfed much at the same time? that kinda contradicts itself right there…

if it was as overpowered as you make out then the nerfs that your complaining about were infact justified to begin with defeating the point in the rest of the post…

Necrotize.2974:

Hard to balance D/D ele without affecting all other ele builds? Guess Mirror Blade never got that message. Heck, the mantra recharge and Harmonious Mantra nerf hurt even mesmers in PvE, arguably more than those in PvP.

Not all builds use or rely on mantras and GS. I dont use mantras much, and I use GS only somewhat. Depends on what I’m doing.

So, no, MB and mantra nerfs did not hurt every build the mesmer had at all. It hurt some specific builds.

But by the same token, I think they could find ways to nerf D/D ele without hurting the rest of their builds. Primarily by going after specifically a trait or two, and the dagger skills if necessary.

I think some of you aren’t getting it. It was pretty clear that mantras were not working as intended, that they didn’t intend for them to recharge in the background. Was it nice? Of course! But it wasn’t behaving as intended.

As for being junk, I really disagree. I sometimes use one mantra, Mantra of Concentration, as a combo stunbreaker/stability. I think its the only skill we have that does both (other skills we have does one or the other, but not both), and it does so to a few allies as well.

Mantras have their place. Even with the “nerf” to make it behave as intended. And yes, I will still use the mantras as is when I’m feeling the desire for it. I see no problems.

As for mirror blade. Hm. Well, nerfs arent fun, but I didn’t see a problem with it. On the other hand, I wasnt running the meta build power shatter I’ve been hearing people talking about, reducing someone from 100-0 in an eye blink. Just because powerful or not, it just isn’t my style… and I suspected a nerf was coming and I didn’t want to get too dependent on it. I do think I want to research it though and see for myself how it worked.

Morfedel.4165:

I think some of you aren’t getting it. It was pretty clear that mantras were not working as intended, that they didn’t intend for them to recharge in the background. Was it nice? Of course! But it wasn’t behaving as intended.

Say that to the pre-specialisation traitline swap on HM. At this point there’s no way of distinguishing between a genuine bug, an intended change that didn’t make it into the published patchnotes, and an intentional nerf malevolently “disguised” as a bugfix.

When in doubt, don’t trust anything and assume Bugnet has even less of a clue than you do, seems about right so far…

You don’t get it, without a recharge trait, mantras are now worse than they were before the patch. I would rather the patch had never happened, or see CS deleted from the game than “fixing the bug”. The mantra gameplay now is clunky, painful, and slow. Prior to the patch we could reduce the cooldown and kinda get around this. Now though, mantra cooldowns are far too long for anything other than the kittened healing mantra. Once more the balance team show they are kittening morons.

Photoloss.4817:

Morfedel.4165:

I think some of you aren’t getting it. It was pretty clear that mantras were not working as intended, that they didn’t intend for them to recharge in the background. Was it nice? Of course! But it wasn’t behaving as intended.

Say that to the pre-specialisation traitline swap on HM. At this point there’s no way of distinguishing between a genuine bug, an intended change that didn’t make it into the published patchnotes, and an intentional nerf malevolently “disguised” as a bugfix.

When in doubt, don’t trust anything and assume Bugnet has even less of a clue than you do, seems about right so far…

Bugnet LOL!

Zarathustra.1458:

You don’t get it, without a recharge trait, mantras are now worse than they were before the patch. I would rather the patch had never happened, or see CS deleted from the game than “fixing the bug”. The mantra gameplay now is clunky, painful, and slow. Prior to the patch we could reduce the cooldown and kinda get around this. Now though, mantra cooldowns are far too long for anything other than the kittened healing mantra. Once more the balance team show they are kittening morons.

I disagree. To make mantras worthwhile you had to use several traits; now that several traits have been combined, for all classes, mantras had their compressed… and got more besides from the inspiration line.

When using mantras, i’ll usually use the healing mantra, concentration, and often resolve and/or distraction. Sometimes i’ll blend mantras with signets, such as mantra of distraction and signet of domination.

And as such I DO find them worthwhile. shrug but as usual, YMMV