Guild Wars 2

Lol the BIG PROBLEM HERE, is that the PvE facet was mainly ignored, and this was more a PvP balance issue. People whining about Mes doing too much damage in PvP. Unfortunately this made us a little bit worse in PvE, which I really don’t understand. Though I’m pretty sure in most fights where our phants don’t get killed, we probably out dps every other class anyway. My only issue is the higher CD’s on our major AoE’s make tagging harder, which is a pain while karma grinding. It can also be a pain when you end up getting multi mob spawns on top of you while farming.

Well —- it took ANet like 5 years or so until they finally realized that they had angered so many PvE players with their 100% PvP related changes that they finally did something that had been requested by the community for ages: Split PvP and PvE skills.

Did they learn? Aparently not so because GW 2 comes again with … combined skills, sigh.

So they will, as they did with GW 1, have a look at PvP and patch whatever needs patching there and wonder at the same time if the PvE community starts howling. Hopefully, though, it will NOT take them 5 years again to realize that PvP and PvE are two entirely different modes to play the game and that what is great for one mode does not necessarily has to be good for the other.

ppl always saying the nerf is ok but this is kittened… ill go lvl another char.. cus mesmer getting worse and worse… u hardly getting any loot from events cus some kittening aoe classes nuke everything… why not nerf aoe on elementalist…..

If you’re not getting any loot from events then I agree with you it’s time for you to roll another toon. I suggest a warrior or an aoe specced Clothie as they will probably fit more your playing style.

Same for the peeps not doing well in PVE. May be the Mesmer isn’t a toon for you. No shame and I’m not flaming here.

Mesmer has a very weird playing style and in some way with a lot of contradictions. This is actually his/her strength once mastered a bit, but it’s also a hell of an headache when you can’t see the “light” in that playing style.

nidwin.6731:

Same for the peeps not doing well in PVE. May be the Mesmer isn’t a toon for you. No shame and I’m not flaming here.

I had no problem whatsoever in PvE with Mes (after you hit 60 and get the hang out of it, and do not pretend to 1-button – AoE your way trough mobs with stellar dmg).

Just, since today, seems that the reward aren’t anymore on par with the challenge (that i like) – and time – to get stuff work.

Maybe that’s me, but i’ve simply lost a lvl 70 char. Now parked in HotM indefinitely waiting for better times in pve.

I’m sure there’s a reason for the Phantasm CD increases, but I really don’t understand why the Duelist got a CD increase of 5 seconds when the swordsman got just 3. The duelist being range and hitting 8 times in one go made him great for my build, but the swordsman hits for more damage and is quicker to use their skill. I just can’t see why the duelist would have 2 more seconds over him.

And if the reason for the increase is to help balance for PvP then maybe phantasms should get a little more health, as in PvP they are not the first target but they usually are in PvE. So when we finally pop then out, they can survive a little more. The CD increases will make it harder for those that have Phantasm builds. Increase the HP of them and using them in dungeons and such will mean the extra CD’s won’t make it such a problem.

The mesmer rage is because bugs which have been around since beta are not getting fixed, we’re taking nerfs based on stuff that isn’t even working right yet like minor traits in the same line that over write each other and stuff like that. I think the nerfs would have gone over fine if they’d done anything to address anything that concerns mesmers desires. Notice that the mesmer patch changes are entirely about what everyone except mesmers wants while mesmers are waiting a month for some stupid bugfixes.

Also mesmers are the weakest pve class and nerfing our ability to benefit from events further is horrible. We already have to time these long cooldown abilities perfectly to tag mobs (literally 1 second either way and it fails) in events where the window of opportunity is maybe 1.5 times the cast time of a phantasm or ability to get credit. Nerfing this further is outright brutal.

I leveled my mesmer to 80, he’s more than half exotic but I dunno if I can bring myself to finish it while most of the builds I would play are underpowered or broken and I already feel like my value in 5 mans is iffy at best compared to any other class. I can’t set of loads of finishers and I can’t spam smoke and dark fields to set up those combos and my burst damage is limited.

No doubt shatter will have a nerf (though they’ll never fix the issues with clones not always getting there) soon.

Arena Net would rather pander to pvp whiners even though it’ll nerf an already underpowered class in pve than fix bugs. GG

People whining about soloing / levelling up, who cares? No MMORPG is balanced on the basis of levelling / farming stuff in PvE, in every MMO there are classes better for farming or that level up faster or can take on more more mobs, etc.

The problem here is that they nerfed us out of all the classes they nerfed us. A young man talked about them not wanting to seem swayed but thats exactly what has been happening with mesmer. Ignorant people don’t understand our skill so they complain about it and we get nerfed.

It started with our portals distance you cant even set one in front of the briar tower and go the south way to the center island and make it to where everyone puts trebs.

This nerf was just silly we were already one of the weakest classes thiefs 2 shot people and Rangers 1-3 shot people and have max range; warrior can 1-2 shot people and we get a nerf.

“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance”-Socrates

I’m sad to see yet another game being ruined by endless circle of buffs/nerfs based on whines. Naive me for hoping this one won’t do that. Will kill some more kitten on Thief.

Lianna.6980:

I’m sad to see yet another game being ruined by endless circle of buffs/nerfs based on whines.

Yeah because games are perfectly balanced upon release and require no changes…

The funniest part of this to me is this.

I’ve been playing mmo’s for a long time. I’m 36. The thing I’ve noticed is that in any mmo you can pick Warrior and know without a doubt that you will be able to dominate damage and mitigation.

Warriors in my vent are always throwing out these huge numbers of 7k, 10k, 15k flurries.

I’ve seen my warlock hit once for 4500. I’m in full exotics.

If we had damage meter’s nobody would ever bring a mez for Explorables again. Luckily we don’t have any damage meters.

I love the class and all, but every single mmo I’m sitting here scratching my head wondering why Warriors are the chosen mesiah’s of every single game.

To people who think that phantasms did too much damage and was not worth the effort to kill…

First off, if you ‘let’ a mesmer get out 3 phantasms, you clearly have no idea how to kill a mesmer in the first place. First off, each phantasm has a certain amount of delay’ in casting them, and another delay before they do their attack animation. Secondly, a mesmer can only get up 2 phantasms up and a clone in ‘fast’ time, considering each weapon set has 1 clone and one phantasm generation. So, you would, at max, have to let the mesmer live through multiple weapon swaps to get 3 phantasms up.

Then, we’ll deal with the low HP poo of a phantasm. Every notice how stupidly easy they die???? AE’s…they won’t live through, random damage flying everywhere that hits them, they die. And quite possibly, before they get off an attack. 90% of teh time, a phantasm or clone is dead the moment it is spawn, wasting CD’s and serving the mesmer little purpose.

And its not as if (just assuming) that the phantasms continually spam their damage. They attack….wait….wait…wait….wait…wait….wait….attack again. Wait…wait…wait…wait….wait…wait…wait…sighs attacks again…

they accumulation of DPS PvP’ers were so worried about is readily defendable, just simply by killing a mesmer. So what if they pump out another one? Kill it! they die fast! And you’ve just wasted a mesmer’s life.

Now, clones on the other hand…

Do 0 damage. And only inflict conditions if you kill them, if the mesmer traits for it. yes, we canget these things out fast, but that is the point. Pump them out, distract the enemy, hide, survive. That is what we mesmers do. It’s How A.Net built us.

This nerf was really that (and it doesn’t seriously affect pvp, but pve!) and mesmers have a good reason to be ‘irrate’.

Or maybe they are just a conceptually much simpler class. Everyone knows what a warrior is about, take weapon, bash things over the head.

It’s easy to implement. No unique features to explore really, just stuff which hits people in the face. Even the rage-mechanic, back when WoW released something quite novel, pre-modelled how to work on the adrenaline-idea. The only novel idea in GW2’s warrior is the fully viable ranged loadout.
Likewise, Rangers, Elementalists, Necromancers, these are all tried and true concepts. Fans know what to expect, Devs know exactly what to do to meet those expectations. Years of previous work to take a look at.

OTOH, try a much more unique class like the Mesmer, especially given that the pure Debuffer role of GW1 is no longer usable since WoW already abolished the three non-stacking roles and now GW2 abolishes the other three.
So it’s blank slate, and everything has be constructed from the ground up.

Sylosi.6503:

People whining about soloing / levelling up, who cares? No MMORPG is balanced on the basis of levelling / farming stuff in PvE, in every MMO there are classes better for farming or that level up faster or can take on more more mobs, etc.

Um … MMORPG = Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game.

The first part (MMO) means it is a huge, persistent world.
The second part (RPG) means players take on a ‘Role’ & play as that ‘Role’ through a ‘Journey’ as they grow stronger & more powerful (Leveling).

Thus MMORPG is VERY MUCH about leveling & as such SHOULD be balanced upon that.

If you wish to trivialize the leveling then I would assume you would prefer Battlefied, or Call of Duty, which are certainly NOT an MMORPG & thus the emphasis is more on the PvP …& ‘balancing’ skills based on that is perfectly warranted.

Even most people in ANet tend to forget that Guild Wars is NOT primarily a PvP game. If it were it would certainly have not have lasted 7 years & Guild Wars 2 would certainly not have even half their current player numbers.

If Guild Wars classes are going to be ‘balanced’ based on their PvP game then it is 100% necessary to Split PvE & PvP skills, as they are Totally Different Games.

Um … MMORPG = Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game.

The first part (MMO) means it is a huge, persistent world.
The second part (RPG) means players take on a ‘Role’ & play as that ‘Role’ through a ‘Journey’ as they grow stronger & more powerful (Leveling).

Thus MMORPG is VERY MUCH about leveling & as such SHOULD be balanced upon that.

If you wish to trivialize the leveling then I would assume you would prefer Battlefied, or Call of Duty, which are certainly NOT an MMORPG

I’m not trivialising the levelling, I enjoy levelling in MMORPGs (I am not one of these people who “power level”, I enjoy exploring the world), however all that is required from the developer is that each class can do that, it does not matter that class A is faster than class B, or class A has more AOE, balance is not a big consideration when it comes to levelling, hence why every game balances on content like dungeons and PvP, where it actually matters.

As a mesmer

These are minor nerfs. Calm the kitten down. Mesmers are an incredibly powerful class with a crapton of utility. Those abilities NEEDED CD change.

For those of you complaining about the Chaos Storm nerf especially, might I recommend shattering clones for AoE tagging, as it’s FAR more effective than Storm. I haven’t noticed a huge decrease in dungeon effectiveness, or in general.

Ocellaris.8362:

Pretty surprised that they made Phantasms worse. I definitely thought they needed a buff for more effective PVE use. This patch nerfs DPS and AOE, two areas Mesmers do not exactly excel at…

dont know my duel sword mesmer right now seems to dole out dps and aoe at least effectivly not the top im sure but i have no trouble standing and holding ground like a tank that does dps lol

nidwin.6731:

If you’re not getting any loot from events then I agree with you it’s time for you to roll another toon. I suggest a warrior or an aoe specced Clothie as they will probably fit more your playing style.

Same for the peeps not doing well in PVE. May be the Mesmer isn’t a toon for you. No shame and I’m not flaming here.

Mesmer has a very weird playing style and in some way with a lot of contradictions. This is actually his/her strength once mastered a bit, but it’s also a hell of an headache when you can’t see the “light” in that playing style.

i dont think its weird but more like the thief in a sense idk how everyone is playing theirs but mine i chaos storm switch to duel blades illusionary leap switch with clone sword skill number 2 for invulnerability and dodge around the enemies in circles every dodge leaves a clone and by the time im done smash the clones to finish them off

i dont think its weird but more like the thief in a sense idk how everyone is playing theirs but mine i chaos storm switch to duel blades illusionary leap switch with clone sword skill number 2 for invulnerability and dodge around the enemies in circles every dodge leaves a clone and by the time im done smash the clones to finish them off

There isn’t enough time for people to do that on some servers. When I play, if you can’t do a significant amount of damage in 2 or 3 seconds, the mobs are dead and you won’t get credit. Often I would try dropping a Chaos Storm as the mobs were spawning, get out a Clone, then start mashing Shatter and the mobs would be dead before the Clone walked a few feet to Shatter. Then I end up with no loot and move onto the next spawn point to try again…

i dont think its weird but more like the thief in a sense idk how everyone is playing theirs but mine i chaos storm switch to duel blades illusionary leap switch with clone sword skill number 2 for invulnerability and dodge around the enemies in circles every dodge leaves a clone and by the time im done smash the clones to finish them off

There isn’t enough time for people to do that on some servers. When I play, if you can’t do a significant amount of damage in 2 or 3 seconds, the mobs are dead and you won’t get credit. Often I would try dropping a Chaos Storm as the mobs were spawning, get out a Clone, then start mashing Shatter and the mobs would be dead before the Clone walked a few feet to Shatter. Then I end up with no loot and move onto the next spawn point to try again…

I still can run Greatsword Karma event farm. Good to know.

Too bad I reroll some easymode class cough engineer cough.

Main a Mesmer. Can safely say that Phantasm build certainly isn’t dead.

A few seconds to generate a new iWarlock or a few more seconds on Storm doesn’t wreck the staff. Staff is still one of the most potent weapons. This does encourage us to swap weapons between recharges, which is what you should be doing anyway unless you want to stack more conditions in which you would be auto-attacking more regardless, and you can still spam #2 to keep stacking damaging conditions.

Happy to see the reduced recharge on Chaos Storm.

iSwordsman and iDuelist had VERY short recharge timers as well. It’s not like you don’t have other skills or other weapon sets to use during recharges, it just encourages less “Phantasm + AA lulz gg” play.

Why anyone is expecting our Phantasms to tank is beyond me. Clones can tank. We have multiple ways to dodge, kite and become invulnerable. Phantasms bring the damage. If you’ve been playing Mesmer for more than a couple days you’ve adjusted to this fact, and slightly higher recharge timers don’t hurt us that much frankly.

Conclusion: Sky is not falling, just keeping us “honest” with regards to Phantasm-only spam. Calm down.

Few things …

1) Mesmer is a PvP class, like in Gw1
2) Therefore PvP balance is their top priority (and then hopefully traits)
3) Mesmer will become better in PvE with expansions and new content (skills etc.)

EDIT:

4) Real Mesmer players choose it for style and concept, not power or popularity

Maybe part of my rage was that I was hoping for bug fixes and instead I get my skills nerfed. If ArenaNet had spent their time fixing the bugs with our class first, I would have been just fine with them “balancing” us. Right now we are not a strong PvE class. I’m saying were terrible by any means, but there’s a reason fewer people roll a Mesmer for PvE. I’d appreciate having the bugs in my class fixed before rendering my skills less useful.

True Seeker.3682:

Main a Mesmer. Can safely say that Phantasm build certainly isn’t dead.

A few seconds to generate a new iWarlock or a few more seconds on Storm doesn’t wreck the staff. Staff is still one of the most potent weapons. This does encourage us to swap weapons between recharges, which is what you should be doing anyway unless you want to stack more conditions in which you would be auto-attacking more regardless, and you can still spam #2 to keep stacking damaging conditions.

Happy to see the reduced recharge on Chaos Storm.

iSwordsman and iDuelist had VERY short recharge timers as well. It’s not like you don’t have other skills or other weapon sets to use during recharges, it just encourages less “Phantasm + AA lulz gg” play.

Why anyone is expecting our Phantasms to tank is beyond me. Clones can tank. We have multiple ways to dodge, kite and become invulnerable. Phantasms bring the damage. If you’ve been playing Mesmer for more than a couple days you’ve adjusted to this fact, and slightly higher recharge timers don’t hurt us that much frankly.

Conclusion: Sky is not falling, just keeping us “honest” with regards to Phantasm-only spam. Calm down.

This.

As I’ve said before, I played through a couple hours of DE’s and a few dungeons last night, with a phantasm build, and nothing felt “broken”. I played as I do every other night. Like I’ve said before, the changes were noticeable but not to the point where Mesmers are “unplayable” and “destroyed” as so many people are claiming.

And the funniest thing about all this outrage and crying is just how many of the posts were made by people who didn’t even play with the changes. I’m sure some did, but this thread blew up before my patch had even downloaded, there’s absolutely no way most of the people who initially posted here had a chance to actually test anything out.

Mesmer got destroyed? No.

First off, everyone has the trait that reduces illusion summoning time 20% across the board. Granted, they should have fixed that before they start messing with summon times but basically duelist still comes up every 16 seconds and 12 seconds with the pistol trait as well, which becomes a more interesting choice. Likewise the staff trait becomes a much more interesting choice than it used to be.

Chaos Armor actually got a slight buff. Have you noticed it always grants like 5 seconds of protection? And you can combo it with Chaos Armor? I tell you, with Illusionary Membrane you can have crazy protection uptime as a mesmer. Let’s not even talk about Signet of Inspiration, which I think is totally underrated.

Anyway. Thieves are the ones that should be crying. Instead of nerfing quickness which is the real source of imbalance, I guess they will just systematically nerf burst damage. Lol. Have you ever rolled with a thief and warrior and timed your Time Warp with their burst abilities? ANet if you’re reading this, quickness is WRONG. Make spikes actually have to be coordinated, not come from an IWIN button.

Ocellaris.8362:

i dont think its weird but more like the thief in a sense idk how everyone is playing theirs but mine i chaos storm switch to duel blades illusionary leap switch with clone sword skill number 2 for invulnerability and dodge around the enemies in circles every dodge leaves a clone and by the time im done smash the clones to finish them off

There isn’t enough time for people to do that on some servers. When I play, if you can’t do a significant amount of damage in 2 or 3 seconds, the mobs are dead and you won’t get credit. Often I would try dropping a Chaos Storm as the mobs were spawning, get out a Clone, then start mashing Shatter and the mobs would be dead before the Clone walked a few feet to Shatter. Then I end up with no loot and move onto the next spawn point to try again…

im not saying you have to lay down the chaos storm the mesmer is all about thinking ahead of your enemy rather then just straight attacking so strategy is required here
oh and while im at it thats all i tend to do is help others with events i butt into other events all the time often walk away with a gold metal

Luka.6831:

Few things …

1) Mesmer is a PvP class, like in Gw1
2) Therefore PvP balance is their top priority (and then hopefully traits)
3) Mesmer will become better in PvE with expansions and new content (skills etc.)

Really? Then why do they still lack any real use in RvR. Ports and utilities? Wow, what fun (oh and no rewards for it).

My first and only class is a Mesmer, 80 of course, in full exotics(except for aquahelm). I absolutely destroy in WvW and PVE. Before, and after the patch. I eat warriors alive. Thieves can be rough, but I still haven’t lost to one in any 1v1 situation regardless of their cheesy tactics. In PVE, I get TONS of loot no matter what event I’m in, because I know this class like the back of my hand. I’m not really sure what all the whining is about, we are probably the most underrated and overpowered class in the game when played right. Don’t even get me started on underwater combat, I regularly will take on 2-3 decked out players with no problems at all, unless they have a mesmer with them.

jokermo.3058:

Ocellaris.8362:

i dont think its weird but more like the thief in a sense idk how everyone is playing theirs but mine i chaos storm switch to duel blades illusionary leap switch with clone sword skill number 2 for invulnerability and dodge around the enemies in circles every dodge leaves a clone and by the time im done smash the clones to finish them off

There isn’t enough time for people to do that on some servers. When I play, if you can’t do a significant amount of damage in 2 or 3 seconds, the mobs are dead and you won’t get credit. Often I would try dropping a Chaos Storm as the mobs were spawning, get out a Clone, then start mashing Shatter and the mobs would be dead before the Clone walked a few feet to Shatter. Then I end up with no loot and move onto the next spawn point to try again…

im not saying you have to lay down the chaos storm the mesmer is all about thinking ahead of your enemy rather then just straight attacking so strategy is required here
oh and while im at it thats all i tend to do is help others with events i butt into other events all the time often walk away with a gold metal

Err, don’t think you “absorbed” what the person you quoted was saying.

There is not enough time to get our attacks off: the long cooldown aoe isn’t helpful, and shattering illusions can’t be done before the mobs are already dead to the hands of the multiple other players who actually have decent aoe skills.

Devicus.8326:

The mesmer rage is because bugs which have been around since beta are not getting fixed, we’re taking nerfs based on stuff that isn’t even working right yet like minor traits in the same line that over write each other and stuff like that. I think the nerfs would have gone over fine if they’d done anything to address anything that concerns mesmers desires. Notice that the mesmer patch changes are entirely about what everyone except mesmers wants while mesmers are waiting a month for some stupid bugfixes.

Also mesmers are the weakest pve class and nerfing our ability to benefit from events further is horrible. We already have to time these long cooldown abilities perfectly to tag mobs (literally 1 second either way and it fails) in events where the window of opportunity is maybe 1.5 times the cast time of a phantasm or ability to get credit. Nerfing this further is outright brutal.

I leveled my mesmer to 80, he’s more than half exotic but I dunno if I can bring myself to finish it while most of the builds I would play are underpowered or broken and I already feel like my value in 5 mans is iffy at best compared to any other class. I can’t set of loads of finishers and I can’t spam smoke and dark fields to set up those combos and my burst damage is limited.

No doubt shatter will have a nerf (though they’ll never fix the issues with clones not always getting there) soon.

Arena Net would rather pander to pvp whiners even though it’ll nerf an already underpowered class in pve than fix bugs. GG

Exactly this.

I think you’re right. I’m just tired of waiting for Mesmer bugs to get fixed. Had Anet taken any care to polish the class at all since beta people wouldn’t be so angered by this change, which, in all honesty, isn’t that big a deal.

I use
2hand sword and sword focus build.
I dont see why some phantasm should have shorter cd than others so np change it.

But really fix all the broken stuff first, so there are some more options.

i’m all for as many of you leaving the class as is possible. you should all roll thieves.

i mean if a change to the cooldown of the two least used illusions in pvp makes you think the class is broken then the class was not for you in the first place

i’m almost always gs/staff and the warlock recharge chagne did not affect my gameplay in the slightest. i did not lean heavily on the broken warden as so many did nor did i ever think the swordsman would be viable coming off an 80 ranger as i know full well how terrible melee ai is in this game.

we are still nasty in wvwvw. we can still drop izerkers out of los on people inside keeps and half kill anyone kitted/geared glass cannon. we can still rip people off their siege equipment and off walls. we can still shut down ranged attackers and break up a zerg single handedly.

this class is one of only two with multiple viable weapon choices and multiple viable builds and multiple viable gear loadouts in any and all aspects of the game – IF played well. it is not a faceroll class and after playing it with any skill and for any length of time at 80 you will find it difficult to play any other class because they will bore you to tears.

unless you were never meant to play this type of class in the first place.

bottom line: too much QQ, needs more Pew Pew

Dixa.6017:

i’m all for as many of you leaving the class as is possible. you should all roll thieves.

i mean if a change to the cooldown of the two least used illusions in pvp makes you think the class is broken then the class was not for you in the first place

i’m almost always gs/staff and the warlock recharge chagne did not affect my gameplay in the slightest. i did not lean heavily on the broken warden as so many did nor did i ever think the swordsman would be viable coming off an 80 ranger as i know full well how terrible melee ai is in this game.

we are still nasty in wvwvw. we can still drop izerkers out of los on people inside keeps and half kill anyone kitted/geared glass cannon. we can still rip people off their siege equipment and off walls. we can still shut down ranged attackers and break up a zerg single handedly.

this class is one of only two with multiple viable weapon choices and multiple viable builds and multiple viable gear loadouts in any and all aspects of the game – IF played well. it is not a faceroll class and after playing it with any skill and for any length of time at 80 you will find it difficult to play any other class because they will bore you to tears.

unless you were never meant to play this type of class in the first place.

bottom line: too much QQ, needs more Pew Pew

^ What he said

Dixa.6017:

i mean if a change to the cooldown of the two least used illusions in pvp

Yeah, sooo…pve.

They borked pve abilities to make zero change to the pvp aspects of this class? This looks like an epic fail to me.

Dixa.6017:

i mean if a change to the cooldown of the two least used illusions in pvp makes you think the class is broken then the class was not for you in the first place

I think you missed the point …

Phantasm recharges make next to no difference in PvE. If you were getting multiple copies of the same phantasm out during a normal fight (anything below champion, sometimes veteran) you don’t know what you’re doing with mesmer. So really, the longer recharge is next to meaningless for most fights. For a boss fight, he will still stay up long enough for you to have 3 out, it will just take a little longer.

Five second longer Chaos Storm in exchange for 5 seconds quicker Chaos Armor works out fine for me.

Signet change wasn’t mesmer specific.

What exactly does the mantra change do?

I use staff, which had 3 of the nerfs listed, and didn’t notice a change in my ability to chain pull groups after the patch. I was feeling like something was different but it didn’t change my effectiveness at all. FWIW.

Sylosi.6503:

Lianna.6980:

I’m sad to see yet another game being ruined by endless circle of buffs/nerfs based on whines.

Yeah because games are perfectly balanced upon release and require no changes…

Main part was “based on whines”.

Guide: Did you get facerolled by any profession or any build? Go on forums, bring up some friends with you, make great long thread with autobiographic and statistical “facts” about how something is overpowered while your profession/build is obviously underpowered although played by true e-sport gurus. Make your “enemies” nerfed. Be happy. Choose next target.
Watching it happen in GW2. Too soon for the new game. But we already had craft nerfs and loot nerfs, not speaking about karma and dungeon nerfs…

Sidenote: no, I’m not Phantasm-built Mesmer.

Really seems like we need a splitt pve/pvp skill pool again. Furthermore alot more bugfixes on abilities and traits.
And I’m not just talking about the mesmer here. Necromancer and Elementalist also suffer a great deal from bugs.

…. meh, may delete my lvl 60 mesmer to free up a slot. Minion bombing is getting – boring. Chaos storm being only interesting skill. Shatters are a joke as they’re only functional with but one or two viable builds. Won’t likely see a much needed overhaul of profession any time soon. Very high probability there will be many more ‘balancing’ nerfs as the profession was never properly ‘complete’ at release. Nerfs are just ‘stop-gaps’ for poor skill/trait synergy.

Weird, for being the least played profession there is such a great need for nerfs, … smacks of bad profession design

Few things …
1) Mesmer is a PvP class, like in Gw1
2) Therefore PvP balance is their top priority (and then hopefully traits)
3) Mesmer will become better in PvE with expansions and new content (skills etc.)
EDIT:
4) Real Mesmer players choose it for style and concept, not power or popularity

1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
2) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
3) Unfounded assertion?
4) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

Lianna.6980:

Sylosi.6503:

Lianna.6980:

I’m sad to see yet another game being ruined by endless circle of buffs/nerfs based on whines.

Yeah because games are perfectly balanced upon release and require no changes…

Main part was “based on whines”.

Guide: Did you get facerolled by any profession or any build? Go on forums, bring up some friends with you, make great long thread with autobiographic and statistical “facts” about how something is overpowered while your profession/build is obviously underpowered although played by true e-sport gurus. Make your “enemies” nerfed. Be happy. Choose next target.
Watching it happen in GW2. Too soon for the new game. But we already had craft nerfs and loot nerfs, not speaking about karma and dungeon nerfs…

Sidenote: no, I’m not Phantasm-built Mesmer.

Still doesn’t make any sense, they’ve nerfed several things no one “whines” about, yet have left several of the most “whined” about skills untouched (Backstab for instance).

But you know what does happen in most MMORPGs, there are a group of people who whine every time their class gets nerfed, because they can’t seem to grasp overall balance is all that matters.

As for the e-sport thing, most of the best players want balance, else the game is poor and will fail like WoW (as an e-sport).

Sylosi.6503:

overall balance…As for the e-sport thing, most of the best players want balance…

Would you mind explaining how nerfing two pve phantasms (hardly used in pvp) helps with overall esport balance?

lollie.5816:

Sylosi.6503:

overall balance…As for the e-sport thing, most of the best players want balance…

Would you mind explaining how nerfing two pve phantasms (hardly used in pvp) helps with overall esport balance?

….which two Phantasms are never used in sPvP? iDuelist sees a great deal of use, as does iWarlock. iSwordsman serves same purpose as iDuelist in terms of “high damage dealing Phantasm for offhand” but tends to see less use due to OH Pistol having a better second skill and iDuelist doing more damage once you factor in multiple hits + Sharper Images.

Also, to address the people stating that Mesmers dont need nerfs due to being the least played profession, you are assuming that the reason people are not choosing Mesmer is due to an overall power level issue. This is an assumption, and it’s an incorrect one. When you look at profession/class popularity in games, you generally see professions picked due to the following:

1) Who deals the most damage?
2) Who has the most obvious synergies/obvious build paths?
3) Who has the most effect vs level of effort?
4) “Cool” factor

This is why many games are flooded with Warrior and Rogue variants. They usually deal the most damage, are the simplest to build, don’t require much effort and have a lot of developer support for cool weapons/gear. The more esoteric the class gets, the less play they see in general. There are outliers, of course, especially if a profession is woefully and obviously overpowered, but that is rare.

Mesmers did actually require some nerfage on their more spammable Phantasms. The amount of damage we could output over time was getting ridiculous. The “kill the Phantasms” mentality for “how to counter Mesmers” only makes sense if killing the Phantasms actually inconveniences the Mesmer in any way. If we can simply replace our Phantasms too rapidly, there becomes no reason not to simply spam them and it becomes an impossible situation to deal with.

Preface: My main has been a mesmer since early access (just getting that out there).

Underwater Mantra trouble was crippling a range of builds (well done).

Phantasms were too strong in PvP when fully specced for them (well done).

Chaos storm duration increase was likely due to the ease at which combo finisher ethereals could be accomplished. I don’t know about the rest of you, but short of testing weapons and skill combos I rarely use, I almost never had to push my Chaos Armor button to have Chaos Armor. Add to that the combo of Chaos Storm and The Prestige and you are protecting a group of people on a regular basis. They reduced the cooldown of Chaos Armor. This screams to me that not having to cast this for the effect consistently was definitely on their mind with this adjustment.

If you want a real laugh, go to the elementalists forums. They are a crew of people under the belief that they are the weakest class in existence, yet are marked as over performing due to the fact that when played as a support class instead of dps (and it is amusing how many of them still think it is crazy if you spec low crit/low power) they are beef cakes in PvP.

True Seeker.3682:

Mesmers did actually require some nerfage on their more spammable Phantasms.

Why can’t we kill other the weapons of other classes then? Also, I wouldn’t call phantasms spammable…they take far too long before they can be respawned and can be killed far too easily (down in one or two hits – lucky if they get one of their skills off before they die) – now it’s even longer before they can be respawned, and this class gets nerfs, yet the traits are still bugged on them.

People saying this isn’t a big difference to PvE for Mesmers do realise that this patch proves that PvE players are nothing in Anets eyes right?

They did this purely to balance PvP and don’t care about how the class is struggling in PvE. Now that the whiners have won they will turn their eyes to the next thing and whine until that is nerfed. Know what was more powerful then phantasm builds in PvP? Shatter builds. Have fun next monday when they are nerfed.

lollie.5816
Would you mind explaining how nerfing two pve phantasms (hardly used in pvp) helps with overall esport balance?

Two things:

1 – Both the duelist and swordsman are used in PvP.
2 – It has nothing to do with what you quoted.

Does anyone else see a nerf to mimic on the horizon? I ignored it for a long time. Now I realize most abilities seem to fall into the “ranged” category. Add to that that after “absorbing” (aka being hit really hard and still taking the damage) the first ability it acts as a full shield with retaliation. I am not 100% sure, but I believe in my last WvWvW match it worked against 100 blades and just slaughtered the warrior.