Guild Wars 2

Calmed down, and while the nerfs are annoying and disappointing, my biggest ire is still with the fact they are focusing on Nerfs and fixing empowering bugs and completely ignoring the other bugs that are a detriment to the class.

Well, any predictions of what will occur next Bloody Nerfing Monday?
Mine are:
1) G.Sword’s I.Zerker requires Line of Sight. (Expected).
2) Mirror Blade dropping to two stacks of Might/Vulnerability per bounce, or dropping to just two bounces without Illusionary Elasticity.
3) Illusions’ Shredding Recharge Rate, fixed. (Yay, bug introduced last week fixed this week, as per the norm.)
4) And no other bug fixes again. (Kitten on being optimistic. Its ruining my disposition for the day when hoping for the best, and getting the opposite each week.)

prodigy.1023:

alanis.6094:

@prodigy
He’s not the only one here that thinks all the kids here are overreacting.

Leave those kids alone and let’s go back to the topic. Do you deny that in one patch we got pretty much all of our weapon setups nerfed?

Obviously the changes increased the reuse timers, nobody is going to disagree with that. I think that ANET could have been justified in doing more than they did, as it didn’t lower damage and they haven’t reduced our incredible on-use survivability.

Do you deny that c/ds of phantasms are for all practical purposes doubled?

Yes, I’m not a math wiz, but I can’t imagine a way you can come away to calculate this as doubling the c/d’s. It is like 3s increase for most of them.

Do you deny that staff is ruined to the point where it’s just a waste of a gear slot?

Laughable. 35s for CS seems pretty fair for how incredibly powerful it is. I can still keep CA on me for plenty, and the CD for iWarlock is fine.

Come on. I’ve played several MMOs and I’ve seen my share of nerfs. Serious, painful nerfs. But this… this isn’t even funny. Why don’t they just /delete the class then?

This is so barely a nerf in my eyes that I saw it and said “Oh, that is nice. Now others will think we were nerfed pretty bad when in reality is has barely any actually effect.”

^

This. I did a small happy dance that we didn’t get anything significant nerfed.

Significant:

1. Anything related to GS.
2. LoS on iB in particular.
3. Warden’s Feedback.
4. Feedback in general.
5. Regen on phantasms.
6. IP.
7. Mind Wrack scaling.
8. Rumored Portal nerfing.
9. Blink usability.

alanis.6094:

Now others will think we were nerfed pretty bad

Unfortunately they have no idea how bad we are actually nerfed. Maybe then we’d get a /hug at least.

Don’t get it wrong I’m not new to rerolling. But I really, really liked mes gameplay. And now it’s all taken from me and I’m sad.

EasymodeX.4062:

^

This. I did a small happy dance that we didn’t get anything significant nerfed.

Significant:

1. Anything related to GS.
2. LoS on iB in particular.
3. Warden’s Feedback.
4. Feedback in general.
5. Regen on phantasms.
6. IP.
7. Mind Wrack scaling.
8. Rumored Portal nerfing.
9. Blink usability.

iB LoS is broken and should be fixed, IMHO.

MLieBennett.9031:

Calmed down, and while the nerfs are annoying and disappointing, my biggest ire is still with the fact they are focusing on Nerfs and fixing empowering bugs and completely ignoring the other bugs that are a detriment to the class.

I totally agree with you, my main concern is not about this week’s nerf but about the fact that they are nerfing the class before fixing it which i find totally counterproductive. It clearly puts the mesmer into a series of “niche” builds while the other class have hundreds to work with.

Correction, ‘most’ classes have a bunch to work with. Elementalist has maybe 2 or 3 builds that work for specific situations currently.

Last I checked, Thieves have like 4 builds, Necros have like 1.5, Warrs float at around 4 builds …

prodigy.1023:

Don’t get it wrong I’m not new to rerolling. But I really, really liked mes gameplay. And now it’s all taken from me and I’m sad.

The molehill→mountain is amazing. I doubt even the best PR person for some crazy religious sect could write stuff as outlandishly exaggerated as you can.

Yes, our Phantasm CDs got doubled! You know what? All of them!
And Staff is now useless! Because it got kitten CD improvement on Chaos Armour, ofc! Silly me not to see that!!!
And let’s not forget the camera change! It was listed under general fixes, but this was done specifically to nerf Mesmers! We all know it!!one!eleven!1!1!!

I dont think people understand the potential DPS loss for the PvE side of Mesmer. Phantasm builds provided some of the best PvE damage. Which even as it was, was not that great simply because Phantasms can be killed the second they are spawned by AoE, random boss aggro, ect. Now that you add 2-6 seconds depending on build, to the cooldown, you’ve now made it so that Mesmer ha s to auto attack that much longer, without its main source of DPS.

Imagine making thiefs heartseeker have a 15% chance to do 0 damage and cost 2 extra Initiative

or warriors Hundred Blades, to have a 15% chance to do 0 damage, and put on cooldown.

thats to some extent how it is. Yeah, it still works most of the time. But if there is a relative high chance its going to fail, then be put on an extended cooldown from what it was before thats not fair.

prodigy.1023:

alanis.6094:

@prodigy

He’s not the only one here that thinks all the kids here are overreacting.

Leave those kids alone and let’s go back to the topic. Do you deny that in one patch we got pretty much all of our weapon setups nerfed? Do you deny that c/ds of phantasms are for all practical purposes doubled? Do you deny that staff is ruined to the point where it’s just a waste of a gear slot?

Come on. I’ve played several MMOs and I’ve seen my share of nerfs. Serious, painful nerfs. But this… this isn’t even funny. Why don’t they just /delete the class then?

I have to agree with Alanis here.

As for the paragraph of questions:

Do you deny that in one patch we got pretty much all of our weapon setups nerfed?
No, but it was needed and it was not severe.

Do you deny that c/ds of phantasms are for all practical purposes doubled?
Yes, this is just silly.

Do you deny that staff is ruined to the point where it’s just a waste of a gear slot?
I am still giggling about this one. Yes, I deny that. Staff is an incredible weapon with loads of utility.

Why don’t they just /delete the class then?
Because it a great class that many enjoy. Would a better option not be for you to just roll another toon?

I had leveled 5 characters to 40 and then went Mesmer. Took it to 80, spent all my resources on Mesmer gear and now it can’t do in PvE what I could do before. I played solo in Orr last night and I was getting killed by stuff that I normally could keep at bay and kill, which is not fun. I have no interest in putting more time into something that ANET will kill the fun of. Guess I’m done. No will to have ANET waste more of my time.

Back in 2006, I chose to be a Shaman in WoW

Now I went Mesmer.

Call me Mr. Nerf Magnet.

@Leon
Now if only you can roll a Giganticus Lupicus …

I think, by far, the worse possible fate of a profession is when the general consent agree that they’re weak and not worth bringing along.
Mesmer seem way more high maintenance than my alts and in all fairness, as far as PvE goes (which is my game) more bark than bite.
But I do really well when I make an effort. I just don’t think its fair that the Mesmer have to read up, watch vids, plan a perfect build, get each gear slot right and stay focused w/o slips to get the same result as my friends do while playing naked with their elbows.

Going by the posts on this forum, regardless of the latest patch, this is how I interpret it; Mesmer have the potential to be ‘just as good’ as any other class – but you need to really know what you’re doing (aka be all sort of awesome) – if that is the case; Mesmer will outshine the average random-mouse-clickers.

I don’t love the fact that my Mesmer will run around mobs that my alts would plow through.
I guess that’s down to personal preferences and how you enjoy playing… Still, as much as I love my Mesmer, can’t help to feel a wee bit bummed out when (just as I hit level 35 and got in my full rare gear and fueled with all sort of know-how from guides) still couldn’t keep up with my casually rag-tag same-level warrior.

Hirr hirr – with that river of tears its time for the underdog to get back to playing :-D

Whats killing me every patch so far has just been pushing me to join the ever growing legion of warriors. Everything I can do, warriors can do much better and not have a class mechanic that punishes them for playing outside of a set build that also works against many traits. Now with increased cooldowns and lack of weapon variety I’m getting incredibly bored with having to stand around auto-attacking everything because the mobs die so fast due to the damage from other players I’m lucky if my phantasm even gets its attack off in time.

Utter frustration is setting in since I’ve been looking forward to the mesmer’s return and now I have no clue what the devs are even trying to do with the class.

Edit: Thanks for the catch lollie.

^I think in the above post it’s important to note that the mobs “die so fast” not due to mesmer damage, but due to the damage of other players. Just to be clear seeing as the devs totally seem to not understand what the mesmer actually is going through here.

Now that you add 2-6 seconds depending on build

In no coherent build will 6 seconds be added.

You’re looking at, what, 0-5 seconds depending on build. Around 0-4 seconds in most builds.

Carighan.6758:

And Staff is now useless! Because it got kitten CD improvement on Chaos Armour, ofc!

Really? Wow, all our troubles are gone, it’s time to rejoice! /sarcasm off

Dude, CA is 5 sec duration on a 35 sec c/d (down from 40). It only works when you get struck – something you rather want to avoid. Furthermore, in PvP it’s a huge sparkling pink bubble that screams “don’t touch that guy right now!”

So the “buff” to CA isn’t even the proverbial bone. It’s plain insult to injury.

prodigy.1023:

Carighan.6758:

And Staff is now useless! Because it got kitten CD improvement on Chaos Armour, ofc!

Really? Wow, all our troubles are gone, it’s time to rejoice! /sarcasm off

Dude, CA is 5 sec duration on a 35 sec c/d (down from 40). It only works when you get struck – something you rather want to avoid. Furthermore, in PvP it’s a huge sparkling pink bubble that screams “don’t touch that guy right now!”

So the “buff” to CA isn’t even the proverbial bone. It’s plain insult to injury.

5 seconds of an enemy deciding not to attack you is kittens huge.

alanis.6094:

5 seconds of an enemy deciding not to attack you

I wouldn’t count on that happening too often. Point is, CA is situational at best. In most cases it’s only slightly more powerful than retaliation and definitely less powerful than fury. In the meanwhile both ret and fury are more subtle and almost any class can get those on a short c/d.

On a 20 sec c/d it would be a viable skill. On a 35 sec c/d it’s waste of an ability slot.

Chaos Armour actually has a reasonable CD compared to many other skills that grant a significant duration of Protection. Compare it with Spectral Armour or Armour of Earth. It’s secondary effect, granting boons and inflicting conditions on hit, is also very potent.

In general you want to use Chaos Armour when you really need it, i.e. you’re under attack and don’t have an out ready. In these situations it can mitigate a lot of damage from Protection, Blind and Regeneration; and can even deal a nice bit of damage from Confusion (at least if you’re a condition Mesmer).

I know this might come over wrong. But i been playing IDuelist with the bleed trait in PvE went decent but they did die rather often but now the inc cd on them makes it even harder to do dmg as a condition dmg mesmer. Anyone got any advice i rly love con dmg in PvE but kinda feel like i aint doing well enough anymore cause of the Iduelist dying often and the inc cd. So anyone know a con build that works?

Not here, Healurownbum. I’m still working on getting a set of Precision/Toughness/Condition Dmg armor, Undead Runes, Jewelery, and Weapons to match for a hopes of finding one that will. So only Theory Crafting so far on my side.

0/20/30/0/20 build, with Dueling II & X, Chaos IV / V / X, and Illusions V & VIII. Staff + Sword & Pistol for weapons. Decoy, I.Defender, and Signet of Illusions for utilities.
Basically hoping to tough it out, lay out conditions with staff, Clones, or a Duelist. But untested theorycrafting, which I’m still getting the items to pull off right.

One could change things up with a Glamour-centric build combining with Blind + Confusion and Confusion. Its just one I don’t have experience with just yet, and likely to try after the above theorycraft is done.

I keep reading complaints that as a result of these changes, the time between Phant summons has increased. Am I completely mistaken or is everyone reading the change to Phant “recharge” rate instead as Phant “summon” rate. Unless ANet mistakenly said “recharge,” I think they meant recharge, which therefore has no impact on the cooldown to summon Phants. Recharge rate has always referred to the time between their attacks.

Phantasmal Warlock: Increased recharge to 20 seconds.
Phantasmal Duelist: Increased recharge to 20 seconds.
Phantasmal Swordsman: Increased recharge to 18 seconds.

Regardless of the fact that this change obviously still hurts PvE dps, am I missing something that others are seeing?

Mojo.7986:

I had leveled 5 characters to 40 and then went Mesmer. Took it to 80, spent all my resources on Mesmer gear and now it can’t do in PvE what I could do before. I played solo in Orr last night and I was getting killed by stuff that I normally could keep at bay and kill, which is not fun. I have no interest in putting more time into something that ANET will kill the fun of. Guess I’m done. No will to have ANET waste more of my time.

what is wrong with people like this poster?

are you unable to adapt? have none of you ever used a kitten greatsword?

me in orr killing multiple mobs – spatial surge > mirror blade > iberserker > dodge >shatter. everything dies

gear right and learn to play

Dixa, that just sounds like there is only one way to play this game and if you dont u suck. I love being a condition damage dealer. And i know it will hurt my AoE and im fine with that. But remarks like that just are a waste.

Don’t worry Dixa, I think all of us are expecting the G.Sword to get hit hard this coming Bloody Nerfing Monday. iBerserker, and likely Mirror Blade for the kitten of it, are going to be the big targets after all the sPvP talk about Mesmers and their G.Swords.

Also on gear right and learn to play? Gear right takes Gold, which sadly Mesmers have a harder time to make then other classes without an Alt like a Warrior or Engineer. Which is especially aggravating for some that bought the wrong “Right Gear” the first time. And on Learn to Play? They did, the learned, then what they learned no longer fits with what is after the patch. Some over reactions, yes. Though its still aggravating as kitten.
-Those of us who didn’t buy Berserker’s Exotic Weapons/Armor/Jewelery specifically.

So don’t worry, ANet has the Mesmer’s G.Sword in its sights.

Hey, maybe they’ll do something like remove Critical Damage Multiplier from affecting our Phantasms or something. Because removing 90% of someone’s life with an I.Zerker Phantasm has to be broken as a forum post stated on PvP that has to be true? Just adapt, gear right, and learn to play, right?

Healurownbum.8175:

Dixa, that just sounds like there is only one way to play this game and if you dont u suck. I love being a condition damage dealer. And i know it will hurt my AoE and im fine with that. But remarks like that just are a waste.

no, that’s what you and others like you are saying and now that they added a measly 3-4 seconds to your phantasm you can’t play that ONE WAY anymore

Leon Trotsky.3674:

Back in 2006, I chose to be a Shaman in WoW

Now I went Mesmer.

Call me Mr. Nerf Magnet.

deathknights saw a nerf every patch and sub patch for the entireyl of wotlk. they are without a doubt the most nerfed and redesigned class in that game in the shortest amount of time.

i was a dk dps main for our raid during that expansion, and every. single. patch. i had to learn a new rotation and get different weapons. shelved it for my vanilla/bc shadow priest when cata hit.

gearing does not take gold. outside of my weaopns – which are level 78 exotics because level 80 are not much of an upgrade – i crafted everything myself. my jewelry and my exotic gear. i didn’t spend money until i wanted a second and third set of gear for different situations.

Dixa.6017:

Healurownbum.8175:

Dixa, that just sounds like there is only one way to play this game and if you dont u suck. I love being a condition damage dealer. And i know it will hurt my AoE and im fine with that. But remarks like that just are a waste.

no, that’s what you and others like you are saying and now that they added a measly 3-4 seconds to your phantasm you can’t play that ONE WAY anymore

I could barely pull it off in Exp mode as it was on bosses cause of AoE or mobs killing my illusions i aint saying it cant be played anymore. But i now know my dmg is even lower then before and i can barely keep any bleeds on the target and that as a condition damage dealer is a huge hit. I play sword/gun staff. And Iwarlock is nice enough with the conditions but i rather have 1/2 Iduelists up which was normal now its generaly the 1 i have up making me feel rather useless.

Dixa, if you crafted everything yourself and didn’t spend Gold, then you farmed it all.

And thats the problem if you bought the wrong armor, specifically anything but Berserker’s, and trying to farm the Ectos and Gossamers to make the armor … well your outta luck. As only either the iZerker or a Shatter build using said armor has a decent chance of tagging DE mobs for the good gathering rate for armor.

They really need to redo the whole phantasm deal. Its so broken, they are so easily killed and are so slow in attacking. I suggest they persist through death, who likes to see their phantasm on permanent CD because 1) they get aoe’d down. 2) mob dies 3) you are out of reach from the mob hence wasting the skill. too stupid and broken

I wouldnt of cared abt the change if the phantasms rly felt like they said they would, like living hexes. But now there just my main dmg dealers that die extreemly easily XD And i have no dmg myself

prodigy.1023:

Dixa.6017:

what is wrong with people like this poster?

are you unable to adapt? have none of you ever used a kitten greatsword?

I don’t want to use a greatsword! Give me my back my staff!

Or keep it the way it is. Because I’ve already adapted. I now play warrior like everyone else.

---

To anyone who came to this thread to learn about the current state of Mes: don’t listen to trolls and ANet fanboys. Mes is dead.

Mes is not dead, just your ability to play mes is dead. I love playing mesmer, it’s an amazing class.

It’s not dead, not with just that, but the nerf was not that slight, it hurt quite a bit :/
But the class is not useless only for that, it’s just less DPS capable ^^

Exploding Acorn.3754:

Whats killing me every patch so far has just been pushing me to join the ever growing legion of warriors.

many share this sentiment and are jumping ship on the mesmer, myself included and apparently several guildies… though they’ll likely nerf the warrior next.

Please refrain from making posts that do not provide any meaningful contribution to the topic at hand.

Fail devs. STOP for GOD SAKE focussing on pvp. It hurts PVE tremendous.

After playing with the changes for a few days, I can’t tell anything changed.

Normal solo fights were over before phantasm recharged. They still are. (An even in a long fight, by the time phantasms recharge, enemies are so close to dead you don’t want to waste a phantasm on it.) Phantasms were recharged by the time I could gather the next group. They still are. The slightly longer recharge means nothing.

In zerg DE’s, I would bring out a warlock and pump out two clones, and replace them on recharge. I still do. It takes a whole 5 seconds longer, give or take. I got gold then, and I still do now.

There’s a lot of over reaction to something that really wasnt all that bad.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Fail devs. STOP for GOD SAKE focussing on pvp. It hurts PVE tremendous.

I don’t think that word means what you think it means.

Dreamo.4971:

I would gladly double the cooldown if they would last through an entire fight and not just a single mob.

I agree. They have no survivability as it is so if they decided to increase the cooldowns they might as well let them last as long as you are in combat.

moderator.2879:

Please refrain from making posts that do not provide any meaningful contribution to the topic at hand.

Meaningful as in; players are turning away from mesmer profession; turning to a profession with multiple viable builds — the warrior; suggesting fundimental issues in the thematic structure of the mesmer profession, particularly the ‘narrowness’ of the shatter mechanic, being woefully ‘under-baked’. That, for good example, many players are turning to a profession properly developed; and the obvious and typical a fear that time investment in the next profession a player chooses will likely recieve the same treatment once the ‘whine’ begins to ‘spilleth over’.

.. though I prefer fewer words with more meaning, words that typically – bite.