Guild Wars 2

ANET can you explain us how we kill a mesmer that apply on us 25 stacks of confusion and we die in 10 sec from it witout using any skill?

I hear that dodging is all the rage lately.

Dodge and cleanse/resist/block/evade/invuln/transfer/conversion 2stronk against condi mesmer.

Nurf all other builds plz kthx.

To the original poster, in all seriousness, the mesmer probably blew all their shatters and used Confusing Images, leaving them with nothing to do but run away until their cooldowns are back.

So, if you would post your build, I’d fathom we could help you figure out how to fight that pesky mesmer.

25 stacks of confusion? Please tell me how that works. I’ve never managed such a thing.

Dead in 10 seconds? Apparently you’ve never had a DH insta drop a kitten load of traps in your lap or any of several warrior bursts. 10 seconds is a very slow death in GW2.

I get that you’re unhappy you got downed. The claim you’re making doesn’t make sense though. Condi cleanse and dodge the shatters.

@Ithilwen – 25 stacks isn’t that hard to achieve, but a mesmer can’t apply it all without being noticed.

Confusing Images – 6 as a base
CoF – Another 8 with 3 illusions out and taking Illusionary Retribution
That’s 14 right off the bat

With Chronophantasma and IR you could easily hit 25 stacks of confusion as a chrono against a single target.

Think Signet of Illusions and Mimic. Yea, a very silly choice of utilities in a well-rounded build, but I’ve seen it done…and it’s super annoying until it’s on cooldown. 25 easy.

You don’t even need SoI or mimic to achieve those stacks, but those utilities would certainly make it easier to do so.

Sounds like someone got wrecked by Gravity Well + Mistrust.

this is the build that i was speaking above i use it to but when i see 5 vs 1 and the mesmer win …i want that to be posibile even from other clases wich i dont see.
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAW7encfClphFpBGoBEgiFcjCNIOpdoMAWtfpuVv1cF-TFyHABKq+DAXAgiU+ZwBBgNdD3u/wsPBg6UCGAABgZOzZOzZOzSBA4YL-w

Pre-perplexity change, I did manage to get 42 stacks of confusion on someone in WvW. Most without perplexity has been 38 which is pretty good really. Mistrust is quite potent at times, but all you really need is a bit of stability and a single cleanse to make the trait redundant.

I did get 26 stacks on a Ranger yesterday by just chaining interrupts between the Ranger and pet in combination with shatters and confusion images. They didn’t last 10 seconds…more like 4 seconds. If I had been on power shatter they probably would have died in 2 seconds.

FOKOZUYNEN.8206:

this is the build that i was speaking above i use it to but when i see 5 vs 1 and the mesmer win …i want that to be posibile even from other clases wich i dont see.
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAW7encfClphFpBGoBEgiFcjCNIOpdoMAWtfpuVv1cF-TFyHABKq+DAXAgiU+ZwBBgNdD3u/wsPBg6UCGAABgZOzZOzZOzSBA4YL-w

Ahahahaha yes. Minions vs mistrust mesmer. I highly recommend you either avoid those fights or avoid using minions vs that type of build.

Edit: that build link is wrong btw. The grandmaster dueling trait ‘mistrust’ is what’s stacking the confusion on you.

the build can be used either the way if you know how to combo the clones shater, but the fact is either the way the image was to show that at tha point i was having 22 stacks of confusion on me after that on 2 sec i was down.

FOKOZUYNEN.8206:

the image was to show that at tha point i was having 22 stacks of confusion on me after that on 2 sec i was down.

Well, seems to me like you should have taken some action other than spamming skills and wondering why you got killed…

Judging by the lack of counter-actions on your part that is required to get hit with 25 stacks of Confusion, you would have died to a Power Shatter Mesmer in about 2-4 seconds.

As someone said, 10 seconds is an eternity in GW2 combat. Some classes can kill you 2-3 times over in that time.

Confusion is meant to stop you from mindlessly performing actions rapidly…which clearly is what you were doing when you first received 25 stacks of Confusion, and then proceeded to happily perform a series of actions that clearly did not involve cleansing them!

Mesmers can also hit you with 20 stacks of Torment pretty easily if you don’t take any defensive measures, and if you ignore that and run around like a newb, you die like a newb. You either have to cleanse it, or stop moving! With Confusion you either cleanse it, or stop performing actions!

If you get hit with 15+ stacks of Burning (Guard, Eng, War) you only have ONE choice…cleanse or die. So IMO you should be happy the Mesmers primary Conditions both have innate counters built into their mechanics.

ok so i have to explain all the combat seems… .i clean 20 stacks of confusion then another 5 and then another 3 ,after all this i got those 22 and i instant die. So you say i have to cleanse ok i do a full remove condition build just to encounter that mesmer and then what i do power with what?
After all we was 5 vs him at one moment and i was not spaming any skill and still i die to fast from confusion only, loking at my combat log i was getting same damage as when i do any action. Just for to say necromancer known as a condition master in this game seems the most low when is come about that.
If 10 sec seems to much for you then you must be one of those than in 1 minute of combat kill a entire zerg solo, take in consideration that i was near a keep in this fight where aura buff gave me advantage and my build on that necro is made to fight with zerg, what if i was having a power build as Anet push now for necro i was sure dead in firs skill that i spam like other 4 that atack him.

FOKOZUYNEN.8206:

ok so i have to explain all the combat seems… .i clean 20 stacks of confusion then another 5 and then another 3 ,after all this i got those 22 and i instant die. So you say i have to cleanse ok i do a full remove condition build just to encounter that mesmer and then what i do power with what?
After all we was 5 vs him at one moment and i was not spaming any skill and still i die to fast from confusion only, loking at my combat log i was getting same damage as when i do any action. Just for to say necromancer known as a condition master in this game seems the most low when is come about that.
If 10 sec seems to much for you then you must be one of those than in 1 minute of combat kill a entire zerg solo, take in consideration that i was near a keep in this fight where aura buff gave me advantage and my build on that necro is made to fight with zerg, what if i was having a power build as Anet push now for necro i was sure dead in firs skill that i spam like other 4 that atack him.

If you somehow managed to get 20 stacks of confusion and then ANOTHER 22 stacks of confusion instantly afterwards, you’re essentially acting like a target dummy surrounded by more target dummies all holding down 1 so that the mesmer can get interrupts every time they sneeze on you.

This is a L2P issue, nothing more.

i dont get it , first you say i spam all skill then you say i hold only 1 1 1 . i remove the condi i move around i use stability but mesmer put evry sec those stack of confusion and torment togheter with other small condi , show me that Necro cand do that. As about DH condi that is easy is have like around 12 stack of fire even more but in the end is only 1 condi to remove and not 25 stacks of each type evry sec.
You try to play necro or ele thief warrior vs that type of mesmer and show me that you actually manage to get him down. Is easy to speak when you all play only mesmer.

FOKOZUYNEN.8206:

ok so i have to explain all the combat seems… .i clean 20 stacks of confusion then another 5 and then another 3 ,after all this i got those 22 and i instant die. So you say i have to cleanse ok i do a full remove condition build just to encounter that mesmer and then what i do power with what?
After all we was 5 vs him at one moment and i was not spaming any skill and still i die to fast from confusion only, loking at my combat log i was getting same damage as when i do any action. Just for to say necromancer known as a condition master in this game seems the most low when is come about that.
If 10 sec seems to much for you then you must be one of those than in 1 minute of combat kill a entire zerg solo, take in consideration that i was near a keep in this fight where aura buff gave me advantage and my build on that necro is made to fight with zerg, what if i was having a power build as Anet push now for necro i was sure dead in firs skill that i spam like other 4 that atack him.

post the video you liar. upload it, i’ll wait.

I’ve fought that mesmer and I’m linked or maybe even from your server, he’s not amazing but he at least knows how to play. The unfortunate reality is you’re pointing at him and everything else as being wrong instead of being able to admit your own faults and trying to improve.

If you were all losing to him 5v1 I’m afraid it’s the 5 people that are to blame not him.

I think in a 1 player versus 1 player fight, a condi mesmer has an advantage over a necro. As long as the mesmer avoids the attacks that can transfer condis back from the necro to the mesmer, I think the mesmer should win this fight. And the game will always have cases where one profession is stronger than another in 1v1.

If this happened during a fight where there five players versus one mesmer, what were the other four players doing? Nobody rezzed you? It’s really hard to stomp when four other players are attacking

yep you all have right i need to improve actually mesmer is very low need more power a bit more stacks 25 stacks of each condi is not enaf . and i need to play a bunker build yeep that is what i will do.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink.

FOKOZUYNEN.8206:

yep you all have right i need to improve actually mesmer is very low need more power a bit more stacks 25 stacks of each condi is not enaf . and i need to play a bunker build yeep that is what i will do.

still no video posted liar

Post a video or it didn’t happen. Simple as that.

We all know it’s theoretically only possible from a very rare niche build that uses Mistrust, which relies heavily on unskilled enemies. I could see it being hard to fight as any profession that uses multiple pets…you know like Mesmers too, and of course Necros. Those pets can get you killed. This is working as intended!

If this build was even remotely as strong as you imply, why is almost no one using it? Why is it not used in high level team play?

A meta condie shatter build can not stack 20+ stacks of either Confusion and certainly not Torment, back to back, unless maybe you were AFK and they spend a good 10 seconds or more to combo that much stuff on you. (After which 3 skills with very long CDs will be down…that being CS, and Signet of Illusion used in conjunction with Mimic. However that still leaves the issue of Illusion generation, so I’m not even sure that is possible. Certainly not if you dodged even once, much less used any kind of defensive skills.)

The only thing that sounds half way plausible is a Mistrust build and either a really bad team of players that are feeding you the high Confusion stacks (when they’re interrupted near you), or a bunch of pets/minions…which of course are essentially brain dead team-mates that are easily chain interrupted for massive AE Confusion stacks.

I’ve tried that build a few times, but it’s utterly unreliable and generally quite inferior to the meta condie shatter build.

FOKOZUYNEN.8206:

ANET can you explain us how we kill a mesmer that apply on us 25 stacks of confusion and we die in 10 sec from it witout using any skill?

This is the typical user arena net he has listened to. Completely ruining the mesmer.

Condi Chrono has been meta in pvp for many months now. i don’t have the time to explain to you how to fight them, but if you watch some recent tournament vids and watch how the pros deal with them. Whether it’s fighting or picking their fights and know their build can’t fight them alone ect. Another piece of advice if not said yet is to practice a bit on the build that is killing you and your party. Before it was pvp meta, Condi Mes was the WvW troll king. It got some nerfs along the way, many of them needed, but it’s not unkillable. But still very powerful. Especially if you’re not really paying attention, know how to manage conditions and how to dodge clone shatters correctly. Solo you need to know what your weaknesses are and what builds out there you counter ect. Just do the work and learn to kill Condi Mes. Lots of time wasted making and replying to the thread instead of getting your kittening revenge! Go learn young grasshopper, don’t complain.

Having beaten that very same Mesmer (judging by the character image+guild tag, anyway) I can guarantee that you must’ve done something wrong.
The fact that there were 5 of you plus minions etcetera actually worked in the Mesmers favour, especially considering most of you probably spammed whatever you had available to pick up an easy 5v1 lootbag. That’s me guessing at how that fight went, looking at the average AG player in WvW…

All I can say is: Try to bait out the Mesmer’ utilities, (using weaponstow) and your ranged advantage. Only get close when you got your cleanses/transfers ready to go in an instant.
It’s a remarkably easy build to whittle down on a necro, just make clever use of what you got available to you.

Mistrust + gravity well is easy way to achieve this when enemy’s get inturupted

@OP

from screenshot you posted, mesmer has Signet of Inspiration, Blink (possibly); Decoy/Mirror Image (Not sure) and as elite Moa. Also if you check his buffs, you see illusionary defender that means he using inspiration line, which is defensive traitline. He runs chrono/inspiation/Illusions .

Answer of how you get that amount of confusion and torment is you ate all of shatters, if that mesmer was power you prolly got 1shotted. Your build is medicore and don’t expect you can kill something with that build. Once again Learn 2 Play issue.

first some said is imposibile to get more than 12stacks of confusion then i post the image and now they want a video XD. i see a lots of pro that really know how mesmer work but i have a question: do you really think evryone that read this are so stupid to not do maths from where you get all those stacks of confusion?

FOKOZUYNEN.8206:

first some said is imposibile to get more than 12stacks of confusion then i post the image and now they want a video XD. i see a lots of pro that really know how mesmer work but i have a question: do you really think evryone that read this are so stupid to not do maths from where you get all those stacks of confusion?

No, we just realize that if you get 20 stacks of confusion on you, you’re bad. This means that any complaints as to the strength of the tactics used to apply confusion are suspect because they’re from the perspective of someone that’s bad.

Edit: And before anyone gets on me about how attacking the source of information is a logical fallacy, that only applies to actual arguments. OP hasn’t made any arguments, they’re just complaining about how it’s too strong.

Sorry gotta add to the theory of l2p here. I noticed when going from bronze to gold in pvp that necros at first was such a breeze, most went down quite swiftly and I really felt sorry for them. This changed quite much when playing in gold where they knew how to handle the condi-spam. They cleansed out much better and the fights where more 50/50 or they just took too long time.

Find a mesmer to practice with and you’ll get hang of it.

I can help out if you want, im in EU.

FOKOZUYNEN.8206:

ok so i have to explain all the combat seems… .i clean 20 stacks of confusion then another 5 and then another 3 ,after all this i got those 22 and i instant die.

You have 6k HP, and stood around dong nothing while someone went through all the effort get nearly 50 stacks of Confusion onto you? Were you in the kitchen making coffee? O.o

lol do you really think that i go there and stay still not moving around , basic of fight either you move or you die, as for condi remove i end up all my remove condi at that point and is not that i can remove only a specific condition from all of them. i may have only that health but my built is condi though vitality,,,,hiw many players have vitality on theyr built and how much?
i play this game from beta not from yesterday like that mesmer . i know you are angry because mesmer may get nerf but what is true is true anyone can do those kill with a mesmer with that build wich i even made it in hurry.
dont ask for video add me to friend list ingame we go to guild hall set for wvw and i come with mesmer you come with what ever you want and we test, i already done with guildies , is not that i make this forum because i dont have nothing to do.
btw fliping a keep not a tower a keep how easy is with mesmer and how imposibile is with other ?
aaaaa you dont like ,well i dont like it either when evryone complain in past about elementalist and now you dont see elementalist with dagger anymore are all with staff and that warhorn is a pve…..not balanced well ok is fine for me then lets say who is the OP atm in this way we go all mesmer wvw.

FOKOZUYNEN.8206:

lol do you really think that i go there and stay still not moving around

Yeah, we actually do. Want to know why?

FOKOZUYNEN.8206:

i see a lots of pro that really know how mesmer work but i have a question: do you really think evryone that read this are so stupid to not do maths from where you get all those stacks of confusion?

OK, you want math? I can give you math. You’re not going to like my math, but I’ll give it to you anyway.

FOKOZUYNEN.8206:

ok so i have to explain all the combat seems… .i clean 20 stacks of confusion then another 5 and then another 3 ,after all this i got those 22 and i instant die.

OK, let’s do some math!

The only possible way for this amount of confusion to occur is through the use of the mistrust trait. Mistrust applies 4 AOE stacks of confusion on interrupt. This means a clean 5 interrupts will get you that 20 stack of confusion that you initially saw. Since I don’t see the daze mantra on the bar of the Mesmer in your screenshot, it’s a safe assumption that you and your allies all got hit by gravity well and/or tides of time.

Now here’s the kicker: you and your allies all stood on top of each other, didn’t use stability, and spammed skills without paying attention to the attacks that the Mesmer was doing.

Know what else will kill 5 people playing like that? Giganticus Lupicus.

So when traited we can 2 stacks per illusion per shatter except f2 which gives 3 each. With the signet we can do that twice. Then we have scepter 3 which does 6. Total that gives us 33. Then we can assume that we may get 2 interrupts from f3 which would move our total olto 41. Now we could also add 3 to that from chaos armor. This would bring our grand total to 44. The OP said he got hit by 20 then 22. So while what OP said could theoretically happen if traited, the victim would have to not dodge, or block and could only condi clear once. To add on to this the victim would have to get hit by both f3s. I did this calculation off of the top of my head and posted via my phone so if someone wants to double check my math that would be great.

Other key points:
PU mesmers usually dont take the signet
Condi chronos (didnt do math for) usually dont take dueling
The above assumes that you are a hacker that has unlimited clones to shatter.

tl;dr
It could happen to you if you are a potato.

Maggotpez.7598:

So when traited we can 2 stacks per illusion per shatter except f2 which gives 3 each. With the signet we can do that twice. Then we have scepter 3 which does 6. Total that gives us 33. Then we can assume that we may get 2 interrupts from f3 which would move our total olto 41. Now we could also add 3 to that from chaos armor. This would bring our grand total to 44. The OP said he got hit by 20 then 22. So while what OP said could theoretically happen if traited, the victim would have to not dodge, or block and could only condi clear once. To add on to this the victim would have to get hit by both f3s. I did this calculation off of the top of my head and posted via my phone so if someone wants to double check my math that would be great.

Other key points:
PU mesmers usually dont take the signet
Condi chronos (didnt do math for) usually dont take dueling
The above assumes that you are a hacker that has unlimited clones to shatter.

tl;dr
It could happen to you if you are a potato.

Might need to redo your math a bit. With traits, we can do 1 stack of confusion per illusion shattered, 2 with cry. Combining the blind on shatter with the confusion on blind trait gets an extra stack per shatter, but not per clone.

In total, that gets us 5 per non-cry shatter and 9 for cry.

Thanks for the correction @Fay. Also like I sort of mentioned, that does not account for the clone generation problem. I think if you die from 20+ stacks of confusion you are not even trying.

Maggotpez.7598:

Thanks for the correction @Fay. Also like I sort of mentioned, that does not account for the clone generation problem. I think if you die from 20+ stacks of confusion you are not even trying.

Well, let’s see.

For starters, let’s assume that we’ve got 2 phantasms and a clone on op without having any skills on cooldown. Since op is basically a target golem, this is a reasonable assumption. Shattering pops CP on both phantasms and IR returns the clone. That gets us our second shatter, providing another clone and losing both phantasms. Now we pop the signet and summon 2 more phantasms by using the shield skill twice, getting us our third and fourth full shatters. At this point we’ve done 2 MR and 2 CoF for a total of 28 confusion, 34 with confusing images. We can use the phantasm on our other set plus generating a clone to get another full shatter for 39, then finish off with the IR clone and CP phantasm for another 4 stacks and a grand total of 43.

Bam, 43 confusion is possible. Clearly the OP has a legitimate complaint and isn’t actually doing their best impression of a target golem shaped like a necromancer.

This thread is click bait.

25 stacks of confusion against an actual human player is only realistically possible with Mistrust.

I think the real problem is that the OP was trying to 1v1 with a necro – the class that has 0 winning matchups and is completely dependent on party support to do anything.

Also guys if you look at the image the OP provided, he was trying to deal with the condis, he had both dagger #4 and Well of Power on CD. Necro simply doesn’t have the tools available to deal with the shatterspam.

That said a power Mesmer would have just deleted him without any chance for him to counter.

Crinn.7864:

I think the real problem is that the OP was trying to 1v1 with a necro – the class that has 0 winning matchups and is completely dependent on party support to do anything.

Well that’s a lie.

Crinn.7864:

Also guys if you look at the image the OP provided, he was trying to deal with the condis, he had both dagger #4 and Well of Power on CD. Necro simply doesn’t have the tools available to deal with the shatterspam..

Whaaaaaat? The class with the most and most potent condition transfer and manipulation abilities in the game simply doesn’t have the tools to deal with a bit of condie application? Man, you must be playing a very different game than the rest of us.