Guild Wars 2

With the nerf of the energy sigil, what build to play?
phantasm?
condi with the scepter trait buff?

Well, my old shatter build will work again (no more tank amulets). Assuming spvp. Assuming wvw, old kitten build will be god still. No change. Just land your explosion, stealth a few seconds, repeat… If you go chrono, its even easier. Just takes Domination Signet, Decoy, The Cripple Well, and the Spirit Bomb Well. Idgaf about heals, still gonna nuke. I barely touch Mesmer too, maybe thats why it works? I remember 6/23 very well, one shotting every player in wvw. MB→Blink→Pistol 5→Flurry→MI→Shatter. Phantasm staff will still work fine. Condi with the new aegis well might be incredibly potent, will test. Don’t be down. Just stop thinking inside the box and do what I do. Write down all the skills functionality (mentality or actually writing), theorize. People being attached usually overthink. Especially before full reveal.

That’s my help, I’ma skedaddle before people try to roast me for something or other.

Nina.4317:

With the nerf of the energy sigil, what build to play?
phantasm?
condi with the scepter trait buff?

Depends on the content. Or did you expect there to be one and the same build that covers all of it?

I don’t remember energy sigil being at the CORE of mesmer’s build… it was important, especially when DE was mandatory, but with Chrono line? It’s clearly not as necessary anymore.
If anything, it will make us less spammy with our little dodge. I’m much more afraid of the power creep all around and the neverending problem of having our core class mechanic fulfilling both offensive and defensive roles and contradicting each other rather than a much needed nerf on a sigil.

Lol. You guys are such cry-babies. According to your logic, its okay that you guys can live through 3v1 indefinitely. And now that you are slightly being nerfed you cry hard…bahahahahaha. Come. Be a thief and see what its like to have every class counter you lol.

Riz.8925:

Lol. You guys are such cry-babies. According to your logic, its okay that you guys can live through 3v1 indefinitely. And now that you are slightly being nerfed you cry hard…bahahahahaha. Come. Be a thief and see what its like to have every class counter you lol.

Riz, most of the people here have been playing mesmer since 2012 and they know very well what it’s like to be countered.

kolompi.1287:

Riz.8925:

Lol. You guys are such cry-babies. According to your logic, its okay that you guys can live through 3v1 indefinitely. And now that you are slightly being nerfed you cry hard…bahahahahaha. Come. Be a thief and see what its like to have every class counter you lol.

Riz, most of the people here have been playing mesmer since 2012 and they know very well what it’s like to be countered.

Rofl. Riz has no idea what forum he walked into XD

Riz.8925:

Lol. You guys are such cry-babies. According to your logic, its okay that you guys can live through 3v1 indefinitely. And now that you are slightly being nerfed you cry hard…bahahahahaha. Come. Be a thief and see what its like to have every class counter you lol.

No need, you walked right in the perfect for that. Even thief had longer meta playtime than us, and they usually are our hard counter on every level. Keep trying, you’ll get there

Pepsi.8907:

Riz.8925:

Lol. You guys are such cry-babies. According to your logic, its okay that you guys can live through 3v1 indefinitely. And now that you are slightly being nerfed you cry hard…bahahahahaha. Come. Be a thief and see what its like to have every class counter you lol.

No need, you walked right in the perfect for that. Even thief had longer meta playtime than us, and they usually are our hard counter on every level. Keep trying, you’ll get there

Just ignore them, they’ve only been playing the game for about 4 months.

We don’t take kindly to new players ’round here!

Riz.8925:

Lol. You guys are such cry-babies. According to your logic, its okay that you guys can live through 3v1 indefinitely. And now that you are slightly being nerfed you cry hard…bahahahahaha. Come. Be a thief and see what its like to have every class counter you lol.

you walked into the wrong neighbourhood burglarboy

I’m talking for pvp in fact.

I had to bought the Hot to be competitive but with this patch, it leads to be unplayable for a core mesmer.
why? with the nerf of the energy sigil (I understand the nerf to tone down the tanky meta) the core mesmer has no viable build in PvP.
I really hope they buff some others points of the mesmer.
And don’t bring chrono mancer line here, it’s about only core mesmer

I haven’t used energy sigil for at least six month, and while I needed adjustment, I could still produce enough clônes to not waste dodge on them, In fact, I’ve foregone the whole dueling line quite a while ago
Core mesmer is lacking and needs buff to be made competitive, I agree, and chrono makes the absence of energy that much easier to bear, but claiming a whole class is dead because one sigil gets nerfed? You’re just panicking

iReversion and chronophantasma should be more than enough to cover clones from energy sigil, problem comes from our playstyle. In the end we’re back to old school tricks, whether that’d work in current meta I doubt it, but this depends on individual perspectives.

EDIT: Oh and we might get narrowed trait selection depending on preference I guess.

It’s tough, i look at a build for my mesmer and think, you know what if i just add chrono to this……

But that goes with all the elites, they were way over tuned compared to the core classes. I loved how Anet came out with the speech about how the Elite specs are meant to be played alongside the core specs. No Anet, they replace the core specs because they are simply better.

Chorazin.4107:

They replace the core specs because they are simply better.

Mostly yes, but some classes can do without, such as necro, engineer, guardian. It is because they don’t lose as much if they don’t take their elite specs. Then, you have druid and daredevil, that if you don’t spec them, you’re gimping yourself. The tools they offer > vanilla class.

In the case of the Chronomancer, it feels just so powerful. F5 is enough to overshadow the Mesmer. Now, not even talking about Alacrity and mobility speed.

Riz.8925:

Lol. You guys are such cry-babies. According to your logic, its okay that you guys can live through 3v1 indefinitely. And now that you are slightly being nerfed you cry hard…bahahahahaha. Come. Be a thief and see what its like to have every class counter you lol.

I think you’re missing the point.

I wouldn’t mind nerfs to:

• health
• armor
• damage output
• mobility
• block (although it has been nerfed by ~33% already)
• etc

What I do mind is nerfs to clearly class-themed and class-defining elements. Making Distortion Aegis instead is one such thing. Culling Alacrity for myself (instead of just my ability to give it to others) is another such thing.

I thought – and correct me if I’m wrong here – that the HoT elite specs were supposed to have strong themes. Since you mention Thief, the Daredevil is supposed to be an extremely agile fighter instead of the dirty-tricks overpowering fighter the Thief is.

Likewise, Chronomancers are supposed to mess with time.

A few effects embody this, as far as translating it into gameplay goes:

• Alacrity (gives super short cooldowns, as if we live in an accelerated pocket of time).
• Continuum Split. It doesn’t do this well, mind you, because ultimate this might have just been called “Double Elite Skill” and it’d work just the same. But I’m digressing.
• Wells, some of them. Namely Precognition via granting blur, hence conveying this “I know the future!”-idea, and Action, shifting time from enemies via slowing them to allies via giving quickness.

Now, I don’t mind nerfs. Harsh nerfs, even.

I mind when class identity gets eroded. And I hate that for every class. Yes, in the interest of a “balanced sPvP” (said in Jim Stirling’s worst-games voice) it’s useful to make classes as similar as possible but to me personally it’s the worst sin a MMO can commit.

Classes need to be quite different. Clearly defined. Very very very strong identity defining elements. And weak elsewhere so that they rely on helping each other (the whole point of a class-based system is that your classes are good at X and bad at not-X so they need to work together – and I don’t mean tanking/healing/damage here, that’s roles, not classes, class is about identity and themed gameplay).

Nina.4317:

With the nerf of the energy sigil, what build to play?
phantasm?
condi with the scepter trait buff?

Where are you seeing that energy sigil is being nerfed? Link?

Found it: http://dulfy.net/2016/01/15/gw2-upcoming-changes-to-pvp-runessigils-and-amulets/

I actually think there are couple of ways we can improve on core mesmer to bring it in line with chrono. Chrono traitline actually is the most consistent traitline for mesmer, you have specialized options dedicated to illusion shatter, alacrity (wells included) and/or slow. Applying the same principle to other core traitlines and we can bring shatter mesmer back into meta.

For example, give domination a boon stripping oriented goal.

• Replace rending shatter with imagined burden and add a GM trait that gives might for 10s when remove a boon from opponent etc (or gain whatever boon you removed with 1s ICD).
• Combine empowered illusions with protected phantasm. Giving protected phantasm more consistency with phantasm oriented inspiration. Then add a new trait that inflict 2 stacks of vulnerability whenever you rip a boon. This synergise with other vulnerability minor traits.

For Dueling you want to have an evasive goal and an illusion (both in direct damage and conditions) aspect:

• Swap desperate decoy with master of manipulation. So Chaos can utilize slightly more stealth while not being OP; and standard shatter has more utility and heal options available.
• Fencer’s finesse gives sword clone auto 25% of mesmer’s auto damage, I think this concept was put up by Chaos before (can’t remember his numbers) and it really helps make this trait competitive with other traits in PvP and boost mesmer in PvE setting.
• Change duelist discipline to inflict confusion instead of bleeding and it’ll be more tempting than before and in synergise with mistrust.
• Mistrust needs to add other conditions to make it worthwhile, since condition cleanse is so prominent in WvW zergs this trait has very little use even in its best case scenario. No matter how high the stack goes it’ll get cleanse with just one condition cleansing. Something like 3 stacks of poison along with 2 stacks of confusion to reduce zerg’s heal potential etc.

For illusions it is a clear that they’re going for condition mesmer but overnerfed its offensive potential with maim being reduced to 1 stack. In addition its shatter benefits have been overshadowed by chronomancer. So I think it needs some buffing to keep it in line with current meta:

• Persistence of memory increased to 3s to boost mesmer sustain (even 5s in PvE to make Illusions and shatter a viable choice in PvE).
• Shattered strength returns to 2 stacks of might instead of 1 stack (not 3 stacks as we all know what happened lol). This will make people prefer illusion due to the direct damage benefit it gives.
• Change malicious sorcery functionality to increase torment damage by 50% (like it was shown in the past trait revamp), rather than the stupid attack speed in a weapon that only has 1 channel skill and an auto attack chain. This will completely make scepter viable since 2/3 of its skills have torment, while fine tune condi shatter to 75% effectiveness of previous maim builds. This fine tuning from trait synergy is also a good direction where mesmer stuff isn’t always butchered by 50% like maim and alacrity rate.
• I think I said it somewhere but give blast to mind wreck using master of fragmentation. 10% crit chance is nothing when we have master fencer or danger time; Change MoF’s effect of CoF to reduction in CD by 10s so confusion shatter is actually a thing. This will work a lot better instead of cripple, because let’s face it, cripple isn’t anywhere near useful with the amount of chill these days.

That’s it from me, any suggestion is welcome.

Might or some other effect when you remove a boon is such an amazing idea. It should be built more upon, in my opinion.

Quadox.7834:

Might or some other effect when you remove a boon is such an amazing idea. It should be built more upon, in my opinion.

We had this topic a while back before HoT. I personally also really like the idea. However, I don’t think it will happen. At least not in a way where the boon removal is the trigger for an added effect. The reason being the difference in our ways of removing boons.

• Sword – on an AA, cleave
• Shattered Concentration – on shatter, single and area effect, varying number
• Arcane Thievery – on utility, single target, 3 at once
• Nullfield – on utility, area effect, 1 each second
• iDisenchanter – on utility, on bounce, but mainly single target

I just don’t see a reasonable way to balance a trait which grants you something on succesful boon removal for Mesmers. It would either be overpowered with specific ways of removing a boon or totally underwhelming. That would result in a lack of build diversity if boon removal turns out to be the new thing for Mesmers some day.

Things I could see is improving the boon removal itself. For example:

• When removing a boon from a target affected by Stability, also remove the Stability. This plays into the strength of Mesmers regarding boon removal plus promotes lockdown or interrupt builds.
• Hitting a foe with x active boons refreshes your boon removal skills (e.g. by x seconds, or by a percentage, or completely with a reasonable cooldown).

I can also see the introduction of new ways of removing boons. For example:

• Remove x boons when interrupting a target. Tricky because of Stability but that aside it is quite straight forward.
• Remove a boon on blind. We don’t got any random Chaos Armor blinds anymore. So why not go for it.
• Grant boon removal to allies. Think of it working like Venoms.

@nicenikeshoes:
Yeah I agree, the existent 5 core lines need stronger themes which are more consistently translated into their picks how they affect gameplay.

I would however, while we’re at it, remove illusion-generation and shattering from the traitlines as far as raw output goes (that includes things such as F3-interrupt-enhancing because that is the raw output of the Diversion skill).

The reason I’d do this is because it is our class defining ability to shatter, and this has to – naturally – include the ability to produce the fodder for it (bad design, ANet devs, our class ability should be context-free :P ). Hence, this power should be stable independent of spec.

This does mean that we have a problem with two traits in chrono in that regard, and yeah that is a bit iffy, but meh… or maybe all line has a master and a GM pick to produce more clones/phantasms? But then you could pick 6 of them and that’d be crazy, OTOH, sounds like fun.

Anyhow, themes:

• Domination: Interrupts and Boon Stripping.
• Dueling: Personal power and stealthing – fits the name, IMO.
• Chaos: Unpredictable boons/conditions, even target areas. Stronger than others, but no way to aim it anywhere.
• Inspiration: Healing and support.
• Illusions: Confusion and Debuffing in general.
• Chronomancer: “Messing with time”

Xaylin.1860:

• When removing a boon from a target affected by Stability, also remove the Stability.

• Hitting a foe with x active boons refreshes your boon removal skills (e.g. by x seconds, or by a percentage, or completely with a reasonable cooldown).

Awesome ideas. I wish ANet would take these suggestions and put in Mesmer traits !

Carighan.6758:

@nicenikeshoes:
Yeah I agree, the existent 5 core lines need stronger themes which are more consistently translated into their picks how they affect gameplay.

I would however, while we’re at it, remove illusion-generation and shattering from the traitlines as far as raw output goes (that includes things such as F3-interrupt-enhancing because that is the raw output of the Diversion skill).

The reason I’d do this is because it is our class defining ability to shatter, and this has to – naturally – include the ability to produce the fodder for it (bad design, ANet devs, our class ability should be context-free :P ). Hence, this power should be stable independent of spec.

This does mean that we have a problem with two traits in chrono in that regard, and yeah that is a bit iffy, but meh… or maybe all line has a master and a GM pick to produce more clones/phantasms? But then you could pick 6 of them and that’d be crazy, OTOH, sounds like fun.

Anyhow, themes:

• Domination: Interrupts and Boon Stripping.
• Dueling: Personal power and stealthing – fits the name, IMO.
• Chaos: Unpredictable boons/conditions, even target areas. Stronger than others, but no way to aim it anywhere.
• Inspiration: Healing and support.
• Illusions: Confusion and Debuffing in general.
• Chronomancer: “Messing with time”

Domination: Hard cc, shatters, boonstrip, greatsword.
Dueling: Evasion, personal power(?), sword and pistol.
Chaos: Interrupts, boons, soft cc, staff
Inspiration: Healing, support, utility(?), focus.
Illusions: Shatters, conditions, torch, scepter.

That’s how i see it =)

Quadox.7834:

Carighan.6758:

@nicenikeshoes:
Yeah I agree, the existent 5 core lines need stronger themes which are more consistently translated into their picks how they affect gameplay.

I would however, while we’re at it, remove illusion-generation and shattering from the traitlines as far as raw output goes (that includes things such as F3-interrupt-enhancing because that is the raw output of the Diversion skill).

The reason I’d do this is because it is our class defining ability to shatter, and this has to – naturally – include the ability to produce the fodder for it (bad design, ANet devs, our class ability should be context-free :P ). Hence, this power should be stable independent of spec.

This does mean that we have a problem with two traits in chrono in that regard, and yeah that is a bit iffy, but meh… or maybe all line has a master and a GM pick to produce more clones/phantasms? But then you could pick 6 of them and that’d be crazy, OTOH, sounds like fun.

Anyhow, themes:

• Domination: Interrupts and Boon Stripping.
• Dueling: Personal power and stealthing – fits the name, IMO.
• Chaos: Unpredictable boons/conditions, even target areas. Stronger than others, but no way to aim it anywhere.
• Inspiration: Healing and support.
• Illusions: Confusion and Debuffing in general.
• Chronomancer: “Messing with time”

Domination: Hard cc, shatters, boonstrip, greatsword.
Dueling: Evasion, personal power(?), sword and pistol.
Chaos: Interrupts, boons, soft cc, staff
Inspiration: Healing, support, utility(?), focus.
Illusions: Shatters, conditions, torch, scepter.

That’s how i see it =)

You could at least have added into Chaos that it also empower our condition duration (and not only boons duration) depending on how many boons we have from Chaotic Persistence. Chaos is very important for both build based on direct damage with boons or build with condition damage to get more duration in anyway.
Stealth (PU) is also one reason why Chaos is so powerful as MI get more time for invisibility and a reduced recharge rate (90s) from Manipulation skill reduction and here you have also one source for getting stability from shatter (BD).

Domination provide several different sources of application for the “opposite” of Might: Vulnerability! This make it a very important core as both GS and Sword apply vulnerability which have an effect on both how much incoming direct damage and condition applied on target with vulnerability on them. Here in Domination there are also interrupt, damage modification (more vuln. = more damage) and improved daze (CC) and stun.

Duelling is a powerful line for getting blind (on 5 targets) on shatter. It is a source for higher critical chance from Fury and Ferocity (critical damage). Mantras get also important boost with Harmonious Mantras.

Chaos and Inspiration have most of group/party based abilities which can be shared. Mantras is another combination which can be empowered from Duelling and Inspiration.

Making a list like those like Carighan and Quadox have done is not the best way to describe how or why one want to pick core specialisations. They lack too much information about what actually is in each core specialisation and as far as I can tell none of you have put any effort to also include condition based builds or any other builds then yourself are probably used to play with.

Lists of this type or discussion about a “cleaner” core specialisation tend to forget those with other goals, game modes or builds.

From the way I see it we have:

Shattering
Both Mesmer and Chronomesmer continue to have shattering as their base. You have either stability from Bountiful Disillusion (Chaos), blind from Blinding Dissipation (Duelling), vulnerability from Rending Shatter, more damage from Mental Anguish or Boon Removal (Domination), Inspiration heals and remove condition from Restorative Illusions. Maim the Disillusioned provide Torment on hit with shatter or Shattered Strength (Might) and Master of Fragmentation from core specialisation in Illusions. Same specialisation will also add confusion and boost it from shatter.

Utility and Elite skill
We need to combine at least two specialisation to get what we want for our utilities (look for how Mantras work; Signets [distortion; for group you need to add Inspiration] etc), the main exception would probably be PU+MI+Master of Manipulation for shorter recharge rate on both MI, Portals and Blink among other which all can be found in Chaos.

Weapon
Domination is clearly intended with GS in mind. Stealth from Chaos fit with The Pledge for Torch from Illusions. Same specialisation have Malicious Sorcery for sceptre. Focus is in Warden’s Feedback (Inspiration). Sword is better to use with Domination and Duelling for vulnerability stacking and for Ferocity from Fencer’s Finesse. Staff is clearly in Chaos for aura and recharge rate reduction.

Most of these weapons will have a shorter recharge and some other effects from these specialisation.

I don’t think it is possible to get a more pure and more “core” specialisation if we want to keep those options there is today for each core. What is needed is weapon, utility and specialisation that are buffed to work together

ShadowCatz.8437:

Quadox.7834:

Carighan.6758:

@nicenikeshoes:
Yeah I agree, the existent 5 core lines need stronger themes which are more consistently translated into their picks how they affect gameplay.

I would however, while we’re at it, remove illusion-generation and shattering from the traitlines as far as raw output goes (that includes things such as F3-interrupt-enhancing because that is the raw output of the Diversion skill).

The reason I’d do this is because it is our class defining ability to shatter, and this has to – naturally – include the ability to produce the fodder for it (bad design, ANet devs, our class ability should be context-free :P ). Hence, this power should be stable independent of spec.

This does mean that we have a problem with two traits in chrono in that regard, and yeah that is a bit iffy, but meh… or maybe all line has a master and a GM pick to produce more clones/phantasms? But then you could pick 6 of them and that’d be crazy, OTOH, sounds like fun.

Anyhow, themes:

• Domination: Interrupts and Boon Stripping.
• Dueling: Personal power and stealthing – fits the name, IMO.
• Chaos: Unpredictable boons/conditions, even target areas. Stronger than others, but no way to aim it anywhere.
• Inspiration: Healing and support.
• Illusions: Confusion and Debuffing in general.
• Chronomancer: “Messing with time”

Domination: Hard cc, shatters, boonstrip, greatsword.
Dueling: Evasion, personal power(?), sword and pistol.
Chaos: Interrupts, boons, soft cc, staff
Inspiration: Healing, support, utility(?), focus.
Illusions: Shatters, conditions, torch, scepter.

That’s how i see it =)

You could at least have added into Chaos that it also empower our condition duration (and not only boons duration) depending on how many boons we have from Chaotic Persistence. Chaos is very important for both build based on direct damage with boons or build with condition damage to get more duration in anyway.
Stealth (PU) is also one reason why Chaos is so powerful as MI get more time for invisibility and a reduced recharge rate (90s) from Manipulation skill reduction and here you have also one source for getting stability from shatter (BD).

Domination provide several different sources of application for the “opposite” of Might: Vulnerability! This make it a very important core as both GS and Sword apply vulnerability which have an effect on both how much incoming direct damage and condition applied on target with vulnerability on them. Here in Domination there are also interrupt, damage modification (more vuln. = more damage) and improved daze (CC) and stun.

Duelling is a powerful line for getting blind (on 5 targets) on shatter. It is a source for higher critical chance from Fury and Ferocity (critical damage). Mantras get also important boost with Harmonious Mantras.

Chaos and Inspiration have most of group/party based abilities which can be shared. Mantras is another combination which can be empowered from Duelling and Inspiration.

Making a list like those like Carighan and Quadox have done is not the best way to describe how or why one want to pick core specialisations. They lack too much information about what actually is in each core specialisation and as far as I can tell none of you have put any effort to also include condition based builds or any other builds then yourself are probably used to play with.

Lists of this type or discussion about a “cleaner” core specialisation tend to forget those with other goals, game modes or builds.

From the way I see it we have:

Shattering
Both Mesmer and Chronomesmer continue to have shattering as their base. You have either stability from Bountiful Disillusion (Chaos), blind from Blinding Dissipation (Duelling), vulnerability from Rending Shatter, more damage from Mental Anguish or Boon Removal (Domination), Inspiration heals and remove condition from Restorative Illusions. Maim the Disillusioned provide Torment on hit with shatter or Shattered Strength (Might) and Master of Fragmentation from core specialisation in Illusions. Same specialisation will also add confusion and boost it from shatter.

Utility and Elite skill
We need to combine at least two specialisation to get what we want for our utilities (look for how Mantras work; Signets [distortion; for group you need to add Inspiration] etc), the main exception would probably be PU+MI+Master of Manipulation for shorter recharge rate on both MI, Portals and Blink among other which all can be found in Chaos.

Weapon
Domination is clearly intended with GS in mind. Stealth from Chaos fit with The Pledge for Torch from Illusions. Same specialisation have Malicious Sorcery for sceptre. Focus is in Warden’s Feedback (Inspiration). Sword is better to use with Domination and Duelling for vulnerability stacking and for Ferocity from Fencer’s Finesse. Staff is clearly in Chaos for aura and recharge rate reduction.

Most of these weapons will have a shorter recharge and some other effects from these specialisation.

I don’t think it is possible to get a more pure and more “core” specialisation if we want to keep those options there is today for each core. What is needed is weapon, utility and specialisation that are buffed to work together

My post has 0 to do with the question on how to choose a build, just felt like clarifying another perspective on the post i replied to. What my post DOES do is that it simply describes the way i think the traitlines work best as, personally. I thought about writing “damage” on domination but came to the conslusion that i don’t agree with that mentality. I also don’t understand why you think that “none of you have put any effort to also include condition based builds or any other builds then yourself are probably used to play with”. It doesn’t seem to make sense.