Hailsec – Asuran Mesmer | EVOS
Zraiyya – Asuran Elementalist | EVOS
Akkodi – Asuran Engineer | EVOS
Zraiyya – Asuran Elementalist | EVOS
Akkodi – Asuran Engineer | EVOS
Mesmer literally 1/6th dps of other classes
Thief: Just autoattacking clocks in at around 34.5k DPS
Amazing
Balance at its best. Our top DPS is half of the second worse.
WOW ANET, JUST WOW…
Ansau – Sylvari Mesmer – Exiled Warriors [wE] – Gandara
i7 5775c @ 4.1GHz – 12GB RAM @ 2400MHz – RX 480 @ 1390/2140MHz
i7 5775c @ 4.1GHz – 12GB RAM @ 2400MHz – RX 480 @ 1390/2140MHz
You should apply for a job at a tabloid newspaper with objective analysis and honesty like that.
You can thank spvp for this. They’d cry a river of tears if our autoattacks and blurred frenzy were brought up remotely close to what thief or ele is pulling.
Mesmer has always been held back by spvp, which is what they balance for.
Ha ha, yeah they’ve removed the numbers for Mesmer from the table, used to say 7.3k or something like that.
I definitely think Arena Net is long past due to resolve the issues of Mesmer sustained dps like the ramp up times, it being tied to pets that die when the enemy dies etc.
With comparable buffs mesmer does 12-14k and not 7k. The condimesmer you linked is more like a hybrid that still shares quickness with its team.
A full condimesmer probably does around 20-22k. A selfish dps zerk mesmer does around 20k as well (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LttCITP2iUg).
Yes, mesmer dmg is kitten, but don’t take things out of context.
(edited by MasterBlaster.6827)
That core mesmer is terrible considering you’re running a purely selfish build. Those mantras are useless, you are not even giving alacrity. For 20-21k power DPS.
Power ranger isn’t that much better, although a purely selfish condi ranger reaches 30k DPS.
And I will say it’s a terrible class design when you don’t even want to use your class mechanics because shatters by default in PvE are a DPS loss. That needs to change.
For curiosity’s sake I went to the aerodrome to try a selfish build matching the linked performance numbers’ ‘All Buffs’ variables. Note that some chosen traits were irrelevant to dps.
~20,500 dps consistently as follows
Domination — Empowered Illusions | Blurred Inscriptions | Mental Anguish
Dueling — Phantasmal Fury | Fencer’s Finesse | Harmonious Mantras
Illusions — Compounding Power | Phantasmal Haste | Master of Fragmentation
Sword/Sword /Pistol
Ascended berserker weapons and trinkets, armor is assassin — exception, exotic berserker pistol — superior sigil of force/concentration — superior rune of the chronomancer
Plate of Truffle Steak, Superior Sharpening Stone
2 mighty infusions, 5 resilient in the gear
Rotation — Phantasmal Duelist, Phantasmal Swordsman, Blurred Frenzy, Mind Slash chain, spawning two more Phantasmal Swordsman when the ability comes off cooldown. Auto-attack until golem is dead.
Note the absence of a dps-relevant 2nd sigil and 6-piece rune bonus. Substituting a sigil of air, better rune, and utilizing precision infusions to bring crit chance to 100% then the right into power, dps would be considerably higher. Maybe using mantras to add a 15% dmg bonus via Mantra Strength would be better, or a complete different build in general, I don’t know, but mesmer ‘selfish’ dps doesn’t seem as bad as many would have us believe.
EDIT: I forgot scholar runes don’t apply to phantasms, so scaling dps by 10% is unreasonable.
EDIT II: Phantasms account for 46% of dps in my dummy test.
(edited by HoneyBadger.5691)
Mesmer damage is low because of our utility. Hard to kill, hard to catch, reliable great CC and crazy party utility. We’d have to sacrifice a lot of that to get damage like the other classes sadly… wouldn’t mind somewhat of a boost though, for PvE bosses it’s pretty useless outside of ulti.
for PvE bosses it’s pretty useless outside of ulti.
But that’s the thing, there is more than dps to consider in a fight’s success (as you said, utility), and with chrono the net dps of the player pushing quickness/alacrity to others is large.
Jeez mesmers are the only class that always cry for buff
The only way you could possibly believe this is if the only class forum you’ve ever visited in your life is this one.
Amberley Avalen – Charr Mesmer
Tanya Larina – Human Thief
Finchy Whyte – Sylvari Ranger
Tanya Larina – Human Thief
Finchy Whyte – Sylvari Ranger
nerf all mesmers defensive options and u can have the damage buff
Sure! I’m totally good for this!
I’d gladly sacrifice some survivability/utilities if that means I get to play an illusion-themed mage who can actively participate in group fights instead of having other people fight for her. I mean I don’t mind buff slaves or sparkle tanks being options for those who want to utilize those parts of the class, but until we can go FULL D&D bard on every encounter and persuasion roll our way out of minor/solo fights and still get exp/drops or whatever, I’d really like to have at least one option where it feels like I’m playing a dps mage.
And I mean mage. if anyone has a budget build that doesn't use sword I'd love to hear it. I'm tired of playing a sparkly warrior who does no damage and is only good for asking other people to fight for her. srsly, pm me or somethin'
(edited by Roda.7468)
Mesmer damage is fine considering everything else we get
Shoot our power burst is prolly top 3 in the game.
Mesmer damage is fine considering everything else we get
Shoot our power burst is prolly top 3 in the game.
You are in the wrong part of the thread if you’re talking about burst
And MidoriMarch.8067 is also a suspect since he complained about defensive options in PvE lol.
Mesmer was never created to be TOP DPS.
Can a thief support?
Mesmer was never created to be TOP DPS.
Can a thief support?
Yes a thief can support. Ever heard of Venoms?
Besides, this game was advertised on each class can play all roles of the game instead of having multiple dedicated classes like WoW. GW2 was supposed to be the WOW KILLER, remember? Mesmer wasn’t supposed to be the top dps, but it wasn’t supposed to be the absolute bottom of the barrel trash dps where it is half as good as ranger.
Hailsec – Asuran Mesmer | EVOS
Zraiyya – Asuran Elementalist | EVOS
Akkodi – Asuran Engineer | EVOS
Zraiyya – Asuran Elementalist | EVOS
Akkodi – Asuran Engineer | EVOS
Mesmer damage is low because of our utility. Hard to kill, hard to catch, reliable great CC and crazy party utility. We’d have to sacrifice a lot of that to get damage like the other classes sadly… wouldn’t mind somewhat of a boost though, for PvE bosses it’s pretty useless outside of ulti.
What of the dps and utility other classes provide?
Ele had the best dps and before wash away the pain was needed some of the best group sustain too coupled with the flexibility to help in many scenarios. Great example is using water auto at feet in KC block phase as well as general healing.
Guard has long had great party support, blocks, almost monopoly on group stab, group cleanses with little effect on dps and now with traps they have great break bar usage too, once again with little sacrifice to DPS.
Warrior is doing double mesmer damage and gives a massive dps boost to the party for minimal dps sacrifice themselves. I know other classes can stack might but it would come at a high cost to dps and require precision rotations in blasting, something not easily done on moving targets.
The list literally goes on. The only class that offers little utility is thief and its dps build, it has some but most of the time it’s limited to blinds and CC via basi venom share (recent with patch) even if the endurance regen on agility activation is nice.
There is no reason for Mesmer to be doing such a poor amount of sustained dps with all its drawbacks such as phantasms dying when mobs die which massively hampers its cleave and ability to fight adds or in events where it’s mostly smaller enemies.
(edited by apharma.3741)
…..Or you can maybe consider the fact that mesmer was never meant to be a dps sustainable class? I mean, after complaining about its dps for more than three years (not targeting you OP specifically), maybe it is time to accept the fact that if you want to see big numbers on your screen, just don’t play it…..The least they could do is making sure that our phantasms would not die so quickly because of AoE stuff in open world. The best way to create a more dps version of mesmer is through elite specs I would say. Fingers crossed for you OP^^
Mesmer was never created to be TOP DPS.
Can a thief support?Yes a thief can support. Ever heard of Venoms?
Besides, this game was advertised on each class can play all roles of the game instead of having multiple dedicated classes like WoW. GW2 was supposed to be the WOW KILLER, remember? Mesmer wasn’t supposed to be the top dps, but it wasn’t supposed to be the absolute bottom of the barrel trash dps where it is half as good as ranger.
after reading this post, i can only laugh. There is no need to even try to discuss with you.
You made my day.
Now: go and ask Kasmeer to make DPS. This community…. maybe you should learn the real purpose of mesmers and you will see you can be useful to your team.
DPS DPS, mine is bigger than yours…. brain?
Mesmer damage is low because of our utility. Hard to kill, hard to catch, reliable great CC and crazy party utility. We’d have to sacrifice a lot of that to get damage like the other classes sadly… wouldn’t mind somewhat of a boost though, for PvE bosses it’s pretty useless outside of ulti.
What of the dps and utility other classes provide?
Ele had the best dps and before wash away the pain was needed some of the best group sustain too coupled with the flexibility to help in many scenarios. Great example is using water auto at feet in KC block phase as well as general healing.
Guard has long had great party support, blocks, almost monopoly on group stab, group cleanses with little effect on dps and now with traps they have great break bar usage too, once again with little sacrifice to DPS.
Warrior is doing double mesmer damage and gives a massive dps boost to the party for minimal dps sacrifice themselves. I know other classes can stack might but it would come at a high cost to dps and require precision rotations in blasting, something not easily done on moving targets.
The list literally goes on. The only class that offers little utility is thief and its dps build, it has some but most of the time it’s limited to blinds and CC via basi venom share (recent with patch) even if the endurance regen on agility activation is nice.
There is no reason for Mesmer to be doing such a poor amount of sustained dps with all its drawbacks such as phantasms dying when mobs die which massively hampers its cleave and ability to fight adds or in events where it’s mostly smaller enemies.
I would agree were iy not for the issue of PvP, where Mesmers are extremely hard to kill, they have the ability to lock people down as well as distraction and outright frustration to the enemy team. All of which are useless for bosses sadly.
None of the classes you mentioned can do that nearly as good, so a lot of that would have to go if our dps is to be boosted.
Mesmer damage is low because of our utility. Hard to kill, hard to catch, reliable great CC and crazy party utility. We’d have to sacrifice a lot of that to get damage like the other classes sadly… wouldn’t mind somewhat of a boost though, for PvE bosses it’s pretty useless outside of ulti.
What of the dps and utility other classes provide?
Ele had the best dps and before wash away the pain was needed some of the best group sustain too coupled with the flexibility to help in many scenarios. Great example is using water auto at feet in KC block phase as well as general healing.
Guard has long had great party support, blocks, almost monopoly on group stab, group cleanses with little effect on dps and now with traps they have great break bar usage too, once again with little sacrifice to DPS.
Warrior is doing double mesmer damage and gives a massive dps boost to the party for minimal dps sacrifice themselves. I know other classes can stack might but it would come at a high cost to dps and require precision rotations in blasting, something not easily done on moving targets.
The list literally goes on. The only class that offers little utility is thief and its dps build, it has some but most of the time it’s limited to blinds and CC via basi venom share (recent with patch) even if the endurance regen on agility activation is nice.
There is no reason for Mesmer to be doing such a poor amount of sustained dps with all its drawbacks such as phantasms dying when mobs die which massively hampers its cleave and ability to fight adds or in events where it’s mostly smaller enemies.
I would agree were iy not for the issue of PvP, where Mesmers are extremely hard to kill, they have the ability to lock people down as well as distraction and outright frustration to the enemy team. All of which are useless for bosses sadly.
None of the classes you mentioned can do that nearly as good, so a lot of that would have to go if our dps is to be boosted.
Not necessarily. They were drawing attention to how “new tech allows PvE and PvP split”, they could quite literally increase mesmers weapon damage of the number 1 skills by 30% in PvE only. 90% of people wouldn’t even notice the difference and those that do might actually be smart enough to realise why.
Do the ‘but muh support’ people really expect Mesmers to drag 4 people around with them through every story instance, get them to follow us around through every random thing we decide to head for in open world and to tag events for us? What if Queen’s gauntlet comes back with even harder fights? Do we demand that anet lets Mesmers bring a party in with us? Do you guys realise the support Warrior and Ele bring with their dps? Or that they can drop that support for even more dps.
I’m personally not even asking for mega dps, it being in the same ball park as everybody else would definitely be preferable but some QoL changes would make the world of difference. Even just buffig up all our auto attcks in PvE could do something. Go play through Glint’s Lair in LS2 as Mesmer then another class and tell me there is nothing wrong.
I guess for Mesmers the ‘play the way you want’ promise just another marketing lie like the no gear treadmill and no healer lies.
Condi mesmer do 21.7k dps and not all buff are needed for it. I tried it a few time on the test golem.
This is what I used as a build reference :
Just summon your duelist and use Confusing image on cool down while auto attacking (any other action is a loss of dps). Your fantasms do almost all the job, there is nothing difficult.
Note that i’m taking chrono just for mobility.
No core profession should be balanced around an optional elite specialization.
I’m personally not even asking for mega dps, it being in the same ball park as everybody else would definitely be preferable but some QoL changes would make the world of difference. Even just buffig up all our auto attcks in PvE could do something. Go play through Glint’s Lair in LS2 as Mesmer then another class and tell me there is nothing wrong.
That was painful. Ranger it wasn’t too bad but still suffered on LS2. Mesmer though flat out sucks for LS2.
1/6 of the DPS of other classes is a laughably exaggerated statement. That qT video is simply a showcase of the rotation, and with only realistic buffs too, mind you. If we dropped half of our support we could easily double or triple that DPS, but instead we take Inspiration and Chronomancer for quickness sharing, shield phantasms for alacrity sharing, and spend half of our time casting wells and signets and phantasms instead of actually trying to deal any damage. No wonder the DPS is so low.
Mesmer has always been a support/utility class since its conception. It’s what we signed up for. The fact that one Chronomancer alone can keep the whole raid party topped up with quickness, on top of alacrity, distortion-sharing, reflects, and great active defences, is the reason why our DPS is crap. You can argue that Druid, Warrior, and so on, i.e. the other support classes, bring better DPS than us while providing the same utility as us, but that’s not true. They can only effectively buff 5 – 7 players, which is why you often need to take two of them in raids, and that’s not even mentioning all the other more niche utility that Mesmer provides, such as boon strip, portals, and so on.
Mesmer is a utility class right now. They don’t need a DPS buff. I wouldn’t mind some QoL changes, bugfixes, and so on, but DPS buffs aren’t needed. Every MMO since time immemorial has support classes which are crappy to solo with, and Mesmer isn’t even that bad. It has good burst and AoE to deal with mobs, and a very easy time soloing thanks to a ton of evade/block/invuln frames and half of its damage being passive. Yeah, some classes have an easier time, but that’s fine. The sooner we try and make Mesmer like other classes, the sooner it starts losing its identity.
I’m fine with the next elite spec being more damage-oriented. In fact, I think that’d be awesome. But as it stands, Mesmer’s DPS numbers feel very fair to me.
Do the ‘but muh support’ people really expect Mesmers to drag 4 people around with them through every story instance, get them to follow us around through every random thing we decide to head for in open world and to tag events for us? What if Queen’s gauntlet comes back with even harder fights? Do we demand that anet lets Mesmers bring a party in with us? Do you guys realise the support Warrior and Ele bring with their dps? Or that they can drop that support for even more dps.
I’m personally not even asking for mega dps, it being in the same ball park as everybody else would definitely be preferable but some QoL changes would make the world of difference. Even just buffig up all our auto attcks in PvE could do something. Go play through Glint’s Lair in LS2 as Mesmer then another class and tell me there is nothing wrong.
I guess for Mesmers the ‘play the way you want’ promise just another marketing lie like the no gear treadmill and no healer lies.
“who cares mesmer solo play sucks .when i get a chronotank in raid i expect him with most expensive gear and do the hardest role perfectly since that mes better practice those stuff with his/her imaginary friends all day and earn the reward based the rate how op pvp forum think they are.
oh and i heard mes can get reward and kill mobs with gliding around new pve map now ,why they still cry for those nonsense
side note : i cant have my lave font auto attack anymore .how dare mes asking for more damage "
—— gw2 random players
1/6 of the DPS of other classes is a laughably exaggerated statement. That qT video is simply a showcase of the rotation, and with only realistic buffs too, mind you. If we dropped half of our support we could easily double or triple that DPS, but instead we take Inspiration and Chronomancer for quickness sharing, shield phantasms for alacrity sharing, and spend half of our time casting wells and signets and phantasms instead of actually trying to deal any damage. No wonder the DPS is so low.
Mesmer has always been a support/utility class since its conception. It’s what we signed up for. The fact that one Chronomancer alone can keep the whole raid party topped up with quickness, on top of alacrity, distortion-sharing, reflects, and great active defences, is the reason why our DPS is crap. You can argue that Druid, Warrior, and so on, i.e. the other support classes, bring better DPS than us while providing the same utility as us, but that’s not true. They can only effectively buff 5 – 7 players, which is why you often need to take two of them in raids, and that’s not even mentioning all the other more niche utility that Mesmer provides, such as boon strip, portals, and so on.
Mesmer is a utility class right now. They don’t need a DPS buff. I wouldn’t mind some QoL changes, bugfixes, and so on, but DPS buffs aren’t needed. Every MMO since time immemorial has support classes which are crappy to solo with, and Mesmer isn’t even that bad. It has good burst and AoE to deal with mobs, and a very easy time soloing thanks to a ton of evade/block/invuln frames and half of its damage being passive. Yeah, some classes have an easier time, but that’s fine. The sooner we try and make Mesmer like other classes, the sooner it starts losing its identity.
I’m fine with the next elite spec being more damage-oriented. In fact, I think that’d be awesome. But as it stands, Mesmer’s DPS numbers feel very fair to me.
in wow people asked for cleric solo buildbuff for years , and wow is/was a game with more group play than gw2
. back then you cant solo many open world quests unless you are hunter. so the support role is needed for every game mode from level 1 .and guess what ?
support class players get credit for being supporters from level 1 for all game modes.
in gw2 its certainly not the case , its a game without hard role and more focused on solo and open world play for years til the raid came out which is like 2% of gw2 population playing .
and guess why people felt the need for cleric solo build buff?
if one class sucks for every other content outside of raids they will certainly lose numbers .
you dont get your pro cleric for raids from no where .
and thats wow ,a raid based game.
would you feel its pathetic if people only played one certain class for its niche support build in 2% content in a mmo ?
1/6 of the DPS of other classes is a laughably exaggerated statement. That qT video is simply a showcase of the rotation, and with only realistic buffs too, mind you. If we dropped half of our support we could easily double or triple that DPS, but instead we take Inspiration and Chronomancer for quickness sharing, shield phantasms for alacrity sharing, and spend half of our time casting wells and signets and phantasms instead of actually trying to deal any damage. No wonder the DPS is so low.
Mesmer has always been a support/utility class since its conception. It’s what we signed up for. The fact that one Chronomancer alone can keep the whole raid party topped up with quickness, on top of alacrity, distortion-sharing, reflects, and great active defences, is the reason why our DPS is crap. You can argue that Druid, Warrior, and so on, i.e. the other support classes, bring better DPS than us while providing the same utility as us, but that’s not true. They can only effectively buff 5 – 7 players, which is why you often need to take two of them in raids, and that’s not even mentioning all the other more niche utility that Mesmer provides, such as boon strip, portals, and so on.
Mesmer is a utility class right now. They don’t need a DPS buff. I wouldn’t mind some QoL changes, bugfixes, and so on, but DPS buffs aren’t needed. Every MMO since time immemorial has support classes which are crappy to solo with, and Mesmer isn’t even that bad. It has good burst and AoE to deal with mobs, and a very easy time soloing thanks to a ton of evade/block/invuln frames and half of its damage being passive. Yeah, some classes have an easier time, but that’s fine. The sooner we try and make Mesmer like other classes, the sooner it starts losing its identity.
I’m fine with the next elite spec being more damage-oriented. In fact, I think that’d be awesome. But as it stands, Mesmer’s DPS numbers feel very fair to me.
While you are right the video was to show rotations and the DPS numbers they just show as mesmer with the alacrity/quickness role that isn’t the whole story about mesmer.
Mesmers completely suck for trash killing or in general any situation that has not got 1-3 big HP targets. This is due to phantasms being responsible for a large chunk of a mesmers damage but having 12-30s cool downs depending on cool down associated traiting. They also die when the target dies so the sustained dps of mesmers tends to be poor in situations where mobs die fairly quickly < CD+cast of phantasms.
Even on bosses mesmer DPS isn’t that good under normal circumstances, with most people in the forum getting about 13-15k in power builds and Xyonen claiming condi with 3 pistol phantasms getting higher with bleeds. Except there are now bosses that disappear, do you know how much that screws up phantasms? Best case scenario they stand there doing nothing but what generally happens is they despawn. That means you have the whole ramp up time to get the phantasms out once again.
We have decent quick burst but not sustained burst it makes sense. poke for 5-10k end it with a spike of damage before they heal. That is how mesmers have played and will play.
Lucky Leaf, Ángël, Clergyman, Side Kick -Lets make Gw2 a better game
Mesmer damage is fine considering everything else we get
Shoot our power burst is prolly top 3 in the game.
You are in the wrong part of the thread if you’re talking about burst
And MidoriMarch.8067 is also a suspect since he complained about defensive options in PvE lol.
With the best support in the game our DPS is perfectly fine. If you jack up DPS so the support build can do viable DPS compared to DPS builds what do you think will happen to PvP/WvW?
Yeah OP as kitten no thank you.
The sense of self entitlement on this subject forum is starting to rival that of the ele forum. Not good.
Really not hard to get 23k dps with bis gear. So no, our dps is not that bad.
Too many mesmers with terrible builds. Want good dps, need a good build.
Sustained phantasm build requires Domination, Dueling, and Illusions. Not Chronomancer. Any substitution will see a large dps loss.
Power shatter demands Domination and Dueling. Chronomancer or Illusions, not sure which is better but really should take one of the two. Prolly Illusions.
Way too many people running around open world with Inspiration. It’s a group support option vastly outclassed for solo play by any other choice. Chaos can be substituted to a build to make it ‘tankier’.
Haven’t played necro, warrior, or ng, but mesmer is god-tier compared to the other classes in open world. You can faceroll almost all content with the right build (prolly condi with chaos).
Mesmer damage is fine considering everything else we get
Shoot our power burst is prolly top 3 in the game.
You are in the wrong part of the thread if you’re talking about burst
And MidoriMarch.8067 is also a suspect since he complained about defensive options in PvE lol.
With the best support in the game our DPS is perfectly fine. If you jack up DPS so the support build can do viable DPS compared to DPS builds what do you think will happen to PvP/WvW?
Yeah OP as kitten no thank you.
The sense of self entitlement on this subject forum is starting to rival that of the ele forum. Not good.
What part of ‘PvE damage split’ do you have difficulty understanding?
Mesmer damage is fine considering everything else we get
Shoot our power burst is prolly top 3 in the game.
You are in the wrong part of the thread if you’re talking about burst
And MidoriMarch.8067 is also a suspect since he complained about defensive options in PvE lol.
With the best support in the game our DPS is perfectly fine. If you jack up DPS so the support build can do viable DPS compared to DPS builds what do you think will happen to PvP/WvW?
Yeah OP as kitten no thank you.
The sense of self entitlement on this subject forum is starting to rival that of the ele forum. Not good.
What part of ‘PvE damage split’ do you have difficulty understanding?
he seems to think that reasonable buff to mes damage will magically bring mes to “ do viable DPS compared to DPS builds ”
14k dps for mes to 44k dps for ele . @Azukas you do know people here ask for 30% aa damage buff or something like phant damage buff in pve not something like 300% damage buff right ?
Really not hard to get 23k dps with bis gear. So no, our dps is not that bad.
Too many mesmers with terrible builds. Want good dps, need a good build.
Sustained phantasm build requires Domination, Dueling, and Illusions. Not Chronomancer. Any substitution will see a large dps loss.
Power shatter demands Domination and Dueling. Chronomancer or Illusions, not sure which is better but really should take one of the two. Prolly Illusions.
Way too many people running around open world with Inspiration. It’s a group support option vastly outclassed for solo play by any other choice. Chaos can be substituted to a build to make it ‘tankier’.
Haven’t played necro, warrior, or ng, but mesmer is god-tier compared to the other classes in open world. You can faceroll almost all content with the right build (prolly condi with chaos).
go play necro war and almost everything else , and back to tell us you still feel mes is god tier in open world .
you can faceroll with any class really in open world , the thing is , other classes do this much much faster than mes .
Mesmer damage is fine considering everything else we get
Shoot our power burst is prolly top 3 in the game.
You are in the wrong part of the thread if you’re talking about burst
And MidoriMarch.8067 is also a suspect since he complained about defensive options in PvE lol.
With the best support in the game our DPS is perfectly fine. If you jack up DPS so the support build can do viable DPS compared to DPS builds what do you think will happen to PvP/WvW?
Yeah OP as kitten no thank you.
The sense of self entitlement on this subject forum is starting to rival that of the ele forum. Not good.
What part of ‘PvE damage split’ do you have difficulty understanding?
PVE = WvW
Try again
Mesmer damage is fine considering everything else we get
Shoot our power burst is prolly top 3 in the game.
You are in the wrong part of the thread if you’re talking about burst
And MidoriMarch.8067 is also a suspect since he complained about defensive options in PvE lol.
With the best support in the game our DPS is perfectly fine. If you jack up DPS so the support build can do viable DPS compared to DPS builds what do you think will happen to PvP/WvW?
Yeah OP as kitten no thank you.
The sense of self entitlement on this subject forum is starting to rival that of the ele forum. Not good.
What part of ‘PvE damage split’ do you have difficulty understanding?
he seems to think that reasonable buff to mes damage will magically bring mes to “ do viable DPS compared to DPS builds ”
14k dps for mes to 44k dps for ele . @Azukas you do know people here ask for 30% aa damage buff or something like phant damage buff in pve not something like 300% damage buff right ?
How are you going to increase mesmer DPS w/out overpowering the non support build?
Try again
Mesmer damage is fine considering everything else we get
Shoot our power burst is prolly top 3 in the game.
You are in the wrong part of the thread if you’re talking about burst
And MidoriMarch.8067 is also a suspect since he complained about defensive options in PvE lol.
With the best support in the game our DPS is perfectly fine. If you jack up DPS so the support build can do viable DPS compared to DPS builds what do you think will happen to PvP/WvW?
Yeah OP as kitten no thank you.
The sense of self entitlement on this subject forum is starting to rival that of the ele forum. Not good.
What part of ‘PvE damage split’ do you have difficulty understanding?
he seems to think that reasonable buff to mes damage will magically bring mes to “ do viable DPS compared to DPS builds ”
14k dps for mes to 44k dps for ele . @Azukas you do know people here ask for 30% aa damage buff or something like phant damage buff in pve not something like 300% damage buff right ?
How are you going to increase mesmer DPS w/out overpowering the non support build?
Try again
30% aa damage increas in pve only will certain make mes dps overpowerig ?
math is that hard?
Mesmer damage is fine considering everything else we get
Shoot our power burst is prolly top 3 in the game.
You are in the wrong part of the thread if you’re talking about burst
And MidoriMarch.8067 is also a suspect since he complained about defensive options in PvE lol.
With the best support in the game our DPS is perfectly fine. If you jack up DPS so the support build can do viable DPS compared to DPS builds what do you think will happen to PvP/WvW?
Yeah OP as kitten no thank you.
The sense of self entitlement on this subject forum is starting to rival that of the ele forum. Not good.
What part of ‘PvE damage split’ do you have difficulty understanding?
PVE = WvW
Try again
Except WvW doesn’t equal PvE. Retaliation for example has the same math in WvW and PvP (1/3 the PvE damage). If they can split this, they can split damage.
Mesmer has always been a support/utility class since its conception. It’s what we signed up for. The fact that one Chronomancer alone can keep the whole raid party topped up with quickness, on top of alacrity, distortion-sharing, reflects, and great active defences, is the reason why our DPS is crap. You can argue that Druid, Warrior, and so on, i.e. the other support classes, bring better DPS than us while providing the same utility as us, but that’s not true. They can only effectively buff 5 – 7 players, which is why you often need to take two of them in raids, and that’s not even mentioning all the other more niche utility that Mesmer provides, such as boon strip, portals, and so on.
You are right, most people just look at DPS buffs and DPS and not the other stuff. Alacrity/quickness are about the same scale as other class specific buffs and the Mesmer affects more people. I agree with you here. DPS is way off though because of utility…. but let’s look at this for a bit:
1) Guardian has pulls and reflects in roughly equal numbers to Mesmer.
2) Equal amounts of CC.
3) Both can tank.
4) Both reduce damage to the team. This is where things start to diverge. Guardian has hammer which heals and gives protection making everyone tanky. Aegis can block a single attach. Mesmers have distortion share. Granted distortion share is strictly better against specific mechanics but overall, I would actually put these at equal assuming you aren’t doing a specific raid speed run/low person run.
So with guardian and mesmer utility being about equal, but guardians doing 5x damage while chronos buff other people plenty, against popular opinion, I agree with you. And here is the thing too, top DPS raid guilds agree with us because if they didn’t, they wouldn’t bring chronos to raids.
Here is where we differ though and where I think most of the issue stems from for other people. If I want to go selfish DPS, I should be able to on Mesmer. This is why I really want damage modifiers to affect phantasms. PvP and WvW and PvE support builds don’t stack % modifiers but a PvE DPS build would. It doesn’t require a balance split, just a change in phantasm function.
If I want to go domination, dueling, illusion and spam Mantras for a 15% buff while providing no DPS buffs for my allies and no distortion share, I should do MORE theoretical dps than a staff ele. Staff eles are aoe and can spike hard while Mesmer phantasms are single target and have wind up time so in practice it would be less than an ele. If I want to go Domination, Dueling and Inspiration for reflects and distortion share but no alacrity/quickness, I should do as much as a guardian that brings equal amounts of utility.
TLDR: Yes the utility makes Chrono worth it despite abysmal damage. Otherwise, you wouldn’t see a chrono in 4 man VG kills or other raid speed runs. HOWEVER, if Mesmers want to forgo that utility, Mesmers should be able to do much better DPS than they currently do.
Jeez mesmers are the only class that always cry for buff
The only way you could possibly believe this is if the only class forum you’ve ever visited in your life is this one.
Everyone crys, mesmers moan and roll on the floor.
Shadowbane DarkAges Of Camelot WoW AION WarHammer GuildWars2
Mesmers in GW2 have the same problems Mesmer had in GW1. And just like in GW1 it’s taking the devs years to address it. Yes they have utility, yes they are good in SPvP , but guess what? They also fall behind all other classes in pve. They lack AoE’s in comparison to the other casters, and simply just can not steadily put out as much damage as other classes. Literally the same problems. I thought they were going to address it better than they did at the HoT release.
They need skill revamps. Some skills need to have their functionality completely changed. Maybe even split between pvp and pve. I’m sorry but my clones are not reliable aoe attacks in pve. They just aren’t.
[…]
Try again
Uhhh… that looks like a fun game and I’m feeling sassy tonight. Let’s try.
What part of ‘PvE damage split’ do you have difficulty understanding?
he seems to think that reasonable buff to mes damage will magically bring mes to “ do viable DPS compared to DPS builds ”
14k dps for mes to 44k dps for ele . @Azukas you do know people here ask for 30% aa damage buff or something like phant damage buff in pve not something like 300% damage buff right ?
How are you going to increase mesmer DPS w/out overpowering the non support build?
Try again
When buffing, for example, AA damage or coefficients (even if it wasn’t exclusive to PvE) or buffing Phantasm damage if they really can’t find another way around it (PvE only), this is a non-issue.
Try again.
What part of ‘PvE damage split’ do you have difficulty understanding?
PVE = WvW
Try again
Except WvW doesn’t equal PvE. Retaliation for example has the same math in WvW and PvP (1/3 the PvE damage). If they can split this, they can split damage.
…
I guess DuckDuck beat me to it.
Another example: Illusion/Phantasm health/damage reduction is split the same way.
Try again.
I really don’t see why there has to be a discussion about the aweful baseline DPS of certain classes. Nobody expects all classes to have top DPS but the gap should be smaller. There are only so many spots for supportive builds in raids or fractals.
Here is where we differ though and where I think most of the issue stems from for other people. If I want to go selfish DPS, I should be able to on Mesmer. This is why I really want damage modifiers to affect phantasms. PvP and WvW and PvE support builds don’t stack % modifiers but a PvE DPS build would. It doesn’t require a balance split, just a change in phantasm function.
If I want to go domination, dueling, illusion and spam Mantras for a 15% buff while providing no DPS buffs for my allies and no distortion share, I should do MORE theoretical dps than a staff ele. Staff eles are aoe and can spike hard while Mesmer phantasms are single target and have wind up time so in practice it would be less than an ele. If I want to go Domination, Dueling and Inspiration for reflects and distortion share but no alacrity/quickness, I should do as much as a guardian that brings equal amounts of utility.
TLDR: Yes the utility makes Chrono worth it despite abysmal damage. Otherwise, you wouldn’t see a chrono in 4 man VG kills or other raid speed runs. HOWEVER, if Mesmers want to forgo that utility, Mesmers should be able to do much better DPS than they currently do.
I see what you mean, and I don’t think I can disagree with that… it would definitely be nice to be able to drop most of our utility for the ability to deal great DPS.
That being said, as it stands, there really isn’t all that much ArenaNet can do to give us the option to deal comparative DPS in a way that forces us to drop our utility (especially utility of the offensive kind, such as alacrity and quickness). If they buff either of our offensive trait lines like Domination and Dueling, there’s nothing stopping us from taking those trait lines along with Chronomancer and having better DPS while still being awesome support gods of timey wimey stuff.
Point is, Chronomancer is like 80 – 90% of our group DPS buffing, so if we’re not forced to drop that trait line for better DPS, then ArenaNet will undoubtedly be very reluctant to give us those DPS buffs (and rightly so). There is a simple solution though; force us to drop it, and guess what feature does exactly that? Another elite spec! That’s why I’m hoping the next elite spec gives us great DPS. I don’t think we’ll ever reach the kind of numbers that the powerhouse classes such as Elementalist can output, since core Mesmer is still built upon a lot of good utility, which has to mean some kind of trade-off in damage, but I do think there’s room for the next elite spec to give us some more damage.
Sure, another elite spec is probably a long way away, but I really don’t find this a big deal. Let’s face it, Mesmer is in a really good spot in a lot of PvE. Dungeons, fractals, and raids all want Mesmers, and in raids people consider them practically mandatory. Very few other classes have that kind of luxury, and some aren’t even guaranteed to be accepted in a raid. We’ve also got respectable mobility and survivability for open world PvE and are the universally-respected gods of jumping puzzles and porting people around. They are definitely not useful in just a small niche; they’re useful nearly everywhere.
(edited by Step.1285)
Been playing Mesmer since the release of Gw2, it was my only class that i played in the game. Even in Gw1 this was my class which i had most fun of. Sure i have other chars,but mostly of the content i did with my Mesmer ,because i love this class. Today i finished my ascended armor on my warrior and gone to my first Fractal with a new class other than mesmer. What can i say….its ridicolus how much Mesmer sucks in comparison. Guild friends say its okay if we take you with us…the quickness is worth it…but for me personally it feels like im just carried,which sucks. So…today i only use my Mesmer for Roleplay Purposes, Warrior will be my future Class to go, until A-net makes Mesmer playable again without being a drag. And im talking not about raids, i only do world events, Dungeons and fractals.
That being said, as it stands, there really isn’t all that much ArenaNet can do to give us the option to deal comparative DPS in a way that forces us to drop our utility (especially utility of the offensive kind, such as alacrity and quickness). If they buff either of our offensive trait lines like Domination and Dueling, there’s nothing stopping us from taking those trait lines along with Chronomancer and having better DPS while still being awesome support gods of timey wimey stuff.
Point is, Chronomancer is like 80 – 90% of our group DPS buffing, so if we’re not forced to drop that trait line for better DPS
So this is why I think the damage modifier changes would work well: Runes, sigils and food also affect chrono buffs. Rune of chrono is a big part of group quickness but prevents scholar bonus. Sigil of concentration prevents use of force and accuracy(or night/slaying for dungeons) at the same time. 20% boon duration food is mutually exclusive with 10% salad or other DPS stat food.
Domination has 15% and then another 12.5% vs vuln.
Dueling has p.fury, 15% and 150 ferocity and requires spamming MoP.
Illusions has phantasmal haste and 9%
Chrono and inspiration are both used in the support build. It’s about the choice of picking all 3 DPS trait lines and DPS gear or only being able to pick one DPS traitline and support gear. If all those modifiers affected phantasms: (1.125*1.15*1.09*1.05*1.07*1.1*1.1=90% more phantasms DPS) and then also p.Fury and p.Haste and ferocity need to be factored in for around a ~150% more phantasm damage that wouldn’t be available in chrono support build. This isn’t including grace of the land and other team buffs that aren’t raw stats.
Summon 1 duelist and 2 swordsman with this build in the DPS testing with the most basic off buffs (vuln, might and banners)
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQRAra88msICloBUrhFVDqsDlYAkBYE7EtLpJKA-TBBXgA9q/As/o8LU/wjSQSBMwYA-e
About 7.8k dps for just phantasms. 7.8k * 2.5 = 19.5k dps from just the phantasm. Add some auto attacks, sc 3 and MoP spam and it wouldn’t be half bad and you hit about 30k in the most selfish mesmer DPS build. Add party buffs like spotter and grace of the land affecting phantasms too and the Mesmer now has a good DPS build that is selfish. Could theoretically go higher with staff phantasms and enough conditions. No major rework to separate PvP, WvW and PvE. Mutually exclusive with the chrono support build.
Mesmer is a fun class to play. If you want dps and monster crit numbers flashing on screen, play something else. Everyone on the team doesn’t need massive dps. What utility would you give up for the dps boost?
——
Raichi – Sylvari Mesmer (Strike Force)
Stormbluff Isle
Raichi – Sylvari Mesmer (Strike Force)
Stormbluff Isle
Mesmer is a fun class to play. If you want dps and monster crit numbers flashing on screen, play something else. Everyone on the team doesn’t need massive dps. What utility would you give up for the dps boost?
The utility warriors are giving for their 26k DPS. Which is to say, none.
I gave up the idea of dps with mesmer, but i would be happy when playing solo or open pve chains of event with an elite skill which spawn 3 phantasms all at once. I would stop complaining for ever
Looking for a gay friendly guild?
Join the Rainbow Pride
Join the Rainbow Pride
That being said, as it stands, there really isn’t all that much ArenaNet can do to give us the option to deal comparative DPS in a way that forces us to drop our utility (especially utility of the offensive kind, such as alacrity and quickness). If they buff either of our offensive trait lines like Domination and Dueling, there’s nothing stopping us from taking those trait lines along with Chronomancer and having better DPS while still being awesome support gods of timey wimey stuff.
Point is, Chronomancer is like 80 – 90% of our group DPS buffing, so if we’re not forced to drop that trait line for better DPS
So this is why I think the damage modifier changes would work well: Runes, sigils and food also affect chrono buffs. Rune of chrono is a big part of group quickness but prevents scholar bonus. Sigil of concentration prevents use of force and accuracy(or night/slaying for dungeons) at the same time. 20% boon duration food is mutually exclusive with 10% salad or other DPS stat food.
Domination has 15% and then another 12.5% vs vuln.
Dueling has p.fury, 15% and 150 ferocity and requires spamming MoP.
Illusions has phantasmal haste and 9%Chrono and inspiration are both used in the support build. It’s about the choice of picking all 3 DPS trait lines and DPS gear or only being able to pick one DPS traitline and support gear. If all those modifiers affected phantasms: (1.125*1.15*1.09*1.05*1.07*1.1*1.1=90% more phantasms DPS) and then also p.Fury and p.Haste and ferocity need to be factored in for around a ~150% more phantasm damage that wouldn’t be available in chrono support build. This isn’t including grace of the land and other team buffs that aren’t raw stats.
Summon 1 duelist and 2 swordsman with this build in the DPS testing with the most basic off buffs (vuln, might and banners)
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQRAra88msICloBUrhFVDqsDlYAkBYE7EtLpJKA-TBBXgA9q/As/o8LU/wjSQSBMwYA-e
About 7.8k dps for just phantasms. 7.8k * 2.5 = 19.5k dps from just the phantasm. Add some auto attacks, sc 3 and MoP spam and it wouldn’t be half bad and you hit about 30k in the most selfish mesmer DPS build. Add party buffs like spotter and grace of the land affecting phantasms too and the Mesmer now has a good DPS build that is selfish. Could theoretically go higher with staff phantasms and enough conditions. No major rework to separate PvP, WvW and PvE. Mutually exclusive with the chrono support build.
Personally I’d rather they didn’t go down that route as we still have the clunkiness of the phantasm mechanic which puts us at odds with our class mechanic shatters. There are no other classes that sacrifice all their DPS just to use their mechanic.
Instead I’d rather they remove the idea of phantasms from the game entirely and adjust skills accordingly but that’s just personal preference. I know it would take a lot but phantasms just don’t work at all.
Balance at its best. Our top DPS is half of the second worse.
WOW ANET, JUST WOW…
Yes but the sPvPers are going to flood them in tears until they nerf it even more. It’s a shame that even after Confusion and Torment got gutted as much as they are, sPvP players still insist that everything should be avoidable and “l33t pr0 counterplay skeelz”. No matter how terrible the RPG they apply that to ends up in the process.
Though, to be fair, with how few players play that mode… can they please just re-do balance ignoring PvP for a minute? The game could be incredibly fun to play if classes were based around specific, strong, effects. If Mesmers had seriously strong disruptive and punitive powers, causing bosses to hit themselves for 5-digit numbers instead of doing direct damage to them, Tempests were able to set entire rooms on fire hitting 200+ enemies in the process, etc etc.
Would be very rich to play from a RPG standpoint, plus easier to balance (each class has a unique aspect or two they provide), but ofc sPvP would no longer be possible to balance after that. My counter to that would be, however: Given only 5 players on each side, that is already impossible. No loss.
The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.