Guild Wars 2

Keenlam, Last time I checked, I could use portals underwater. However, the skill has to be on your underwater skillbar to use it. It is possible that you didn’t have it equipped when you jumped in. I’ve done that a few times. The good news is, you can swap it in even after opening the entrance portal.

Thanks Crossplay. I stand corrected.

I have some points about portal I wanted to make here. Firstly, portal is not simply a utility skill, its also a combat skill, used to manipulate the mesmer’s footing on the field, as seen in the promo video after mesmer was announced(the one showing him killing an Aatxe with it). It seems obnoxious to me to remove a skill to aid in both movement and combat inside a JP many of which have enemies that you have to fight to proceed, thus precluding portals use in combating them, which is unfair to a certain extent against mesmers. Secondly, there are other ways to handle JP’s, for example have a timer when a player enters a JP. If the player cannot beat the puzzle after say 2 hours then it warps you to the end. That way, people who can’t make the grade but try like crazy can get there, and you could technically prevent portal from working there. This is not my position, but is a possible method. Another method would be to limit portal use to only the mesmer inside jumping puzzles. It still offers some tangible benefits, but only to mesmer. Personally, I don’t favor the timer because if your going to give a pass after X amount of time you might as well have a community member, i.e. the mesmer offer this so people are helping each other. For those who feel this equates to some people getting something for nothing, I point out that the average few silver a JP gets as a reward is next to meaningless. For those complaining about achievements, I say: you only get the point once. After that, your pretty much getting nothing in the bigger picture, so why do you care honestly? WHat about people who can’t do it on their own for disadvantaged reasons, should we say those points are forever out of reach because a few people feel “cheapened” by them finally getting their what, one achievement point there? Out of the whole batch, its a miniscule amount so from a practical perspective I don’t see it being a difference to those going for the leaderboards.

@Freedan: good point about Portal being a combat skill. But after the nerf with the ridiculous CD of 90s, it’s quite clunky to use. I saw Osicat’s videos and that’s one great example of how portal is skillfully used in combat.

havoc.6814:

Wow, every post argueing in favor of portals in this thread is being posted by mesmers. Those mesmers are immediately and vociferously attacking anyone who posts in support of my OP.

Wait a minute. You posted this in the Mesmer forum, and this surprises you? This topic is a joke. I’ve only ever taken one Mesmer portal in a JP and that was the new one. I could’ve cared less about the shoulders. Useless stats for my characters. As for the content I missed, also could’ve cared less. If someone wants to skip and trivialize content, what’s it to you? Even reading all these replies I still honestly don’t understand. So much headache over the simple fact that people are worrying so much about what other people are doing. Worry about yourself.

For all the idiots (sorry if you tried this) trying to charge money for portals to the end of JPs, there are 10 more players who would do it for free. I am never doing Obsidium Sanctum again. I did it legit with a couple people who could do it blind folded. They knew I was a newbie and they took at least 15 minutes longer than they would have originally to let me catch up when I fell like the scrub that I am. These same players will always put down portals for free to help others. And you want to restrict them? Sure, there are people doing it for tactical advantage in WvW, but who cares? Get a group and go fight them to stop it. Do something about it instead of complain. Mesmer’s are illusionists and use deception and trickery. One was hiding in a keep you took over and let everyone else back in with a portal? Your teams own fault for not securing the area.

And for the record, it’s still in the game because there’s nothing wrong with it. Complaining about PvE is ludicrous. The computer controlled bosses and enemies aren’t getting their feelings hurt because they didn’t get to fight you.

Arale.4207:

You’re playing the wrong game then. Like I said before, this isn’t the MMO where you reach the magical pinnacle of xyz and get to brag about it. That mindset usually breeds elitism and tiers players into can do’s and can’t do’s. It’s archaic in my opinion, and only lessens the amount of choice players have. We get it. You and a select few others want everyone to do something the same way, or not at all. Sorry to say but it’ll never happen. Portal has been nerfed probably more then any other skill, and this game is more about helping people & being social then gloating & being a kitten.

It boggles my mind why someone elses actions that:

A. Doesn’t involve you, at all.
B. Doesn’t affect your gameplay or end result at all.

Cause some hilariously bad campaign to get everyone to do something the same way, or not at all. How many times does it have to be explained that not everyone is as good as that one person who does the JP without using portal? There’s a myriad of reasons on why someone can’t do a JP. So they use a portal. Big deal. That’s not your achievements, or accomplishments, so it’s none of your business, and thus should be none of your concern. You honestly have no right to dictate how other people go about this, if it doesn’t affect your gameplay. If it dents some inner ego or something like that, you may want to consider a different game, because like I said, this game allows for very little gloating in that sense & I’m glad.

If ANet shared your viewpoint, they would have changed JP’s by now. Seeing as they don’t, it looks like player choice wins over old content barriers.

Like I’ve said before, my view doesn’t have to do with how I play the game; I am looking at this from a game design standpoint. Is it really so hard to move past personal biases and question if something like bypassing content with portals is healthy game mechanics?

You speak about achievements and recognition like they are evil, only used by “elitists” who seek to demean others, brag about what they have, and cause general upset in the community. But there is nothing wrong with achievements and recognition when they are not displayed in an arrogant way, in fact, they can actually be a positive thing!

And I’m not so sure about “this isn’t the MMO where you reach the magical pinnacle of xyz and get to brag about it.” We have plenty of status symbols, from prestige equipment like legendaries, to account medals, to achievement points. The entire end-game reward system is pretty much based around these status symbols, so perhaps people who aim for those things aren’t playing the wrong game after all.

takatsu.9416:

just to remind about the post i made earlier again,

i think if all arguments are pushed aside,

you have to consider the players, ALL players.

there are some who are just extremely jumping challenged. they can try it for three hour and get nowhere, and get stuck in the same spot over and over or have to start again. especially on release when there were big and small characters crowded together

some people just can’t “physically” make it to the end of a jp even if they tried. some might have eye sight issues, sensitive to light, i also know some colorblind (even to certain colors only) that would hinder them. maybe someone who has a disability in their hand? who knows

people have different gaming ability. And even someone who is amazing at pvp and wvw, and fighting, but they might not be accurate with jumps.

at the end of the day, these people would be treated unfairly if there were no mesmers helping people with portals.

the portals are a must. Choose what way you want to get to the end as simple as that

I know this may sound harsh to some, but if someone can’t do the content, then they shouldn’t get the rewards for completing the content.

Just think if we expanded your line of reasoning to other content:

This poor guy can only play once a week, should we really give him the same amount of rewards as someone who played all week?

Another poor guy can’t manage to beat the dungeon, should we just let him skip all the enemies and still claim the full reward?

Its fine to be sympathetic to these people, and try to help them enjoy it, but giving them the same credit as those who worked through the content is wrong. And really, why would someone with these problems be doing the jump puzzle to begin with? If the point is the enjoy the content, which they cannot do, then why are they there in the first place? Are they just there for the rewards, and if that is the case they they don’t deserve them if they can’t do the content!

The super adventure box did this the correct way. It had an easy mode which allowed people to make it through the puzzle and enjoy things like the atmosphere, but this disabled the normal rewards. This is the right way to go, allowing players to enjoy it, but not giving them the same rewards for those who do it normally.

Bri.8354:

You speak about achievements and recognition like they are evil, only used by “elitists” who seek to demean others, brag about what they have, and cause general upset in the community. But there is nothing wrong with achievements and recognition when they are not displayed in an arrogant way, in fact, they can actually be a positive thing!

Yes, bug not in the way they’re used in regards to Jumping Puzzles.
What you are talking about are inspiring achievements, those which challenge you to do content in a way you’d normally not do them.

In fact you could sort-of solve the issue that way, no?
Create a new achievement for each jumping puzzle: Complete this puzzle while…

1. Not using Swiftness in any way.
2. Not using a Mesmer Portal.
3. Not using any ability which moves the character.
4. Not using a runspeed Signet.

In other words, “do it vanilla”.

And then have there be a title for someone who completely all JPs that way. And there we go. :P

Bri.8354:

This poor guy can only play once a week, should we really give him the same amount of rewards as someone who played all week?

This is a staple of MMO gameplay / social environment, people getting carried through content. Part of some MMO’s design is to facilitate this by ultimately balancing a 5man dungeon for “1 less”. You can easily 4 man them, which means that you can generally carry whoever along as long as they are back at the keyboard to open the chest at the end.

Is it good design? Well, no.
But MMO gamers are social people, they drag their friends / loved ones into the game, and they will quit if those stop playing because they cannot do it. It’s quite the necessity to make sure people aren’t pushed away by that.

But as I said above, just add an achievement to do the JP without any outside help (please not only portal, Swiftness is just as bad for trivializing JPs).

Deal
With
It

This is as constructive as I’m going to be on the subject.

160 posts later there is still not a single valid reason to remove portals from the game or nerf them…

Actually there is, it goes something along the lines of:

“Waaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh”

People wo are complaining about achevements… I sugest you all go to GW1 and get the “God Walking Among Mere Mortals” title and you’ll be busy for a while.

If you have that, than go get all the legendaries avalable in GW2. Than we’ll talk about somethig trivial as JP ports.

Carighan.6758:

Create a new achievement for each jumping puzzle: Complete this puzzle while…

1. Not using Swiftness in any way.
2. Not using a Mesmer Portal.
3. Not using any ability which moves the character.
4. Not using a runspeed Signet.

In other words, “do it vanilla”.

And then have there be a title for someone who completely all JPs that way. And there we go. :P

I’m not sure how easy it would be to implement, and running it with other players might mess you up through group swiftness, but I do like the spirit of the idea. Maybe they could even provide better chest rewards for people who finish it in this way, like a guaranteed rare from world bosses.

Yamiga.7863:

160 posts later there is still not a single valid reason to remove portals from the game or nerf them…

There have been valid points by both sides. Just because you may not agree with one side doesn’t make them any less valid.

Anyways, I don’t think I have anything else to add to this thread so I’ll take my leave now. Thanks for the discussion everyone.

Yamiga.7863:

160 posts later there is still not a single valid reason to remove portals from the game or nerf them…

There is.

Free amusement for readers.

10/10 would read this troll therad again.

/popcorn

keenlam.4753:

Crossplay.2067:

I really shouldn’t add to this discussion but I’m bored and there is a lot of ignorance about portal that needs to be cleared. There are a LOT of restrictions on this skill, which is why I find it ludicrous to ask for more.

-snip-

Crossplay, may I add to your lists 2 more restrictions that I learned about the hard way.

8. Portals cannot be used underwater.
There was this time I activated the entrance portal just to look down and see there wasn’t a tiny bit of land that my friends to swim to so i could jump down and create the exit to port them up

9. The first (entrance) portal expires (and the skill goes on CD) if the mesmer dies before they make the second (exit) one.
There were occasions as I rushed to my friends’ position, misjudged the height and jumped to my death, even if I got ressed in 1 second after, there’s no use creating the exit portal end.

Seriously, people who are against portals, try playing a mesmer than you’ll see that sometimes, figuring out where to put portals could be a bit of puzzle itself.

Portals can be used underwater, I did it yesterday. At least the exit portal.

havoc.6814:

Wow, every post argueing in favor of portals in this thread is being posted by mesmers. Those mesmers are immediately and vociferously attacking anyone who posts in support of my OP. I think this is very telling. I think that you know that portals are breaking the game and trivializing content. I think you know that you are wrong. I think that is why you are so aggressive. I think you just want to have your liscence to steal at any cost.

Apparently helping people in jps via portal is aggresive, you also have to remember, IT’S JUST A GAME, the mesmers aren’t taking advantage of people, they’re helping. (I can do jps no problem so it doesn’t effect me if they’re taken away)
Also, when you’re in WvW and use a mesmer to portal people in a fort, it’s hard, you can’t be detected, if you can’t find a mesmer in a fort, you aren’t looking hard enough.

How about we just have a majority vote to set the matter to rest? I think we can’t satisfy the few who want to nerf JP, but at least lets show what the majority feels about the matter so there is some closure for everyone on the matter. Everyone post +1 for those who want to leave portal alone, and -1 if they want it nerfed. Some numbers might clarify what real feelings are. Please no double-posting, we know who you are

Freedan.1769:

How about we just have a majority vote to set the matter to rest? I think we can’t satisfy the few who want to nerf JP, but at least lets show what the majority feels about the matter so there is some closure for everyone on the matter. Everyone post +1 for those who want to leave portal alone, and -1 if they want it nerfed. Some numbers might clarify what real feelings are. Please no double-posting, we know who you are

Do you mean on the forums? I imagine only a small fraction of actual players actively navigate and participate on the forums. Only a poll in game would get realistic and usable results. However, I doubt that ANet would do this.

I actually meant people who posted in here could add like a +1 post or -1 depending on their feelings. People who post here in the forums are individuals who care, and any attempt to do so in-game would be far too intangible short of letters to numerous people to get responses back which I think would be too difficult without having distribution lists.

This is what’s bothering you? Wow, does it drive you crazy if I put 2 T’s in putt as well?

I putt together this sentence.

Some of the things that bug people is just weird.

Godmoney, a lot of people like to discuss portal because we really like and love this skill. And before you say its just a game, you bothered to post in a game forum so you obviously cared enough to talk about it. Every once in a while I miss a t while typing(notice how g is right below it?) The fact you are attacking one misspelled word shows how childish you are. I for one have never complained about poor grammar in online forums since its par for the course but since it’s so important to you to be infantile please continue, I would love to hear more from you.

To sum it up: portals don’t harm anyone, but they help a lot of people.

Crossplay.2067:

7. Portal has a ridiculous 90 second cooldown (72 when traited) that makes is very unwieldly for personal use. This cooldown starts after the portals fade too. This makes sense in WvW and PVP but in PVE, there’s nothing to do but twiddle your thumbs and wait. This too causes many problems as the urge for a person to lose all common sense skyrockets during these 90 seconds.

This and the 20 player cap are among the most unthoughtful "fixes" to an obvious problem, thus being one of the prime examples for ANets lazyness when it comes to fixing things, right next to the confusion nerf. Instead of fixing mechanics, they tweak one or two numbers, breaking more related things without actually addressing the underlying issues in the process. One of the reasons I completely lost faith in anything they call "balancing".

Iruwen.3164:

One of the reasons I completely lost faith in anything they call “balancing”.

That is Anet all over. They have to be one of the WORST when it comes to “fixes” they some how manage NOT to fix the issue and break something else, its incredible.

I guess since phantasm build has been nerfed the new thing to complain about is portal, wonder what will be next.

Aitadis.8269:

I guess since phantasm build has been nerfed the new thing to complain about is portal, wonder what will be next.

The fact that Thieves cant kill us with 1 auto-attack?

If this is such a pressing problem then maybe when you enter a jumping puzzle all skills should go away… like that super fun box dungeon thing. It would make for an even playing field and no one can complain.

Karmasutra.9351:

If this is such a pressing problem then maybe when you enter a jumping puzzle all skills should go away… like that super fun box dungeon thing. It would make for an even playing field and no one can complain.

nope sry, but i also use my portal as insurance so in case i fall i get another chance.if portal gets removed, i wont do jp’s anymore as i suck at them and take very long.

only because some selfish dude doesn’t like when others get help, because he thinks he is sooo much better than everyone and needs acknowledgement for all that, others that need help cannot get any anymore, that’s bullkitten!pardon my french!

selan.8354:

Karmasutra.9351:

If this is such a pressing problem then maybe when you enter a jumping puzzle all skills should go away… like that super fun box dungeon thing. It would make for an even playing field and no one can complain.

nope sry, but i also use my portal as insurance so in case i fall i get another chance.if portal gets removed, i wont do jp’s anymore as i suck at them and take very long.

only because some selfish dude doesn’t like when others get help, because he thinks he is sooo much better than everyone and needs acknowledgement for all that, others that need help cannot get any anymore, that’s bullkitten!pardon my french!

I personally agree. I’m just saying right now, if portal is taken away everyone else better loose their skills that help them through JP’s as well.

If this is such a pressing problem then maybe when you enter a jumping puzzle all skills should go away…

Nah, then all those professions who got leaps to make JPs easier (guess, how many leaps mesmer got? Right, 0) would complain.

Iavra.8510:

If this is such a pressing problem then maybe when you enter a jumping puzzle all skills should go away…

Nah, then all those professions who got leaps to make JPs easier (guess, how many leaps mesmer got? Right, 0) would complain.

If this is such a pressing problem then maybe when you enter a jumping puzzle “ALL” skills should go away…

I understood your post very well, that’s why i wrote that all classes that are actually affected in their “jumping-puzzling” by removing their skills (not mesmers, since portal doesn’t help for doing the actual jumps) will complain.

Didn’t read all the posts (CBA to read all QQ-s about mesmers’ portal), but did anyone also mentioned about other proffessions skills also “must” be nerfed together with portal?
We all know about warrior’s hammer leap and sword leap, engi’s rifle leap, perma swiftness boost (guard/rngi/thief/ele/necro etc.) which could help a lot while doing some certain JP-s and offcourse on top of this Death Shroud of necro, which just simply could let you to forget about falling damage.
Portals are just the most obvious example how proffesion skills could be used in non-combat mechanics, but, indeed, not the only one…

Freedan.1769:

Godmoney, a lot of people like to discuss portal because we really like and love this skill. And before you say its just a game, you bothered to post in a game forum so you obviously cared enough to talk about it. Every once in a while I miss a t while typing(notice how g is right below it?) The fact you are attacking one misspelled word shows how childish you are. I for one have never complained about poor grammar in online forums since its par for the course but since it’s so important to you to be infantile please continue, I would love to hear more from you.

Portal is a optional ability basically for people who suck at jumping puzzles. I have many members like this in my guild as I’m sure you all do.

Some people don’t like jumping puzzles and portal is a harmless way for them to skip to the end.

NEWSFLASH IF THEY WANTED IT TO NOT BE USED IN JUMPING PUZZLES THEY WOULD HAVE REMOVED IT.

Every guild puzzle my guild does requires a portal for a person or 2 that failed a jump. There’s nothing wrong with people having fun. The game has been out for over 10 months. If portal was as game breaking as these people claim they would have already removed it 3 or 4 months ago.

Portal isn’t going anywhere and people skipping jumping puzzles is part of the design to help less than able guildies. Its pretty obvious once you do guild puzzles, etc every week like we do that the ability is intended to be used. Who would have thought? Amazing that they have ability that is meant to be used. >.>

PS. if you’re a mesmer you still need to do the jumping puzzle. Only now your bad jumping puzzle guildies can join in the fun. OH NOESSS! How dare they let guilds have fun!

This thread has to be the most pathetic complaint in the forums history. I’m ashamed for people that are bothered for others having fun. It’s so sad and shameful.

They need a consumable that gives everyone access to a portal like skill.

Guys, GUYS!

I dont know why portal, a mesmer skill have to be nerfed since its being used to help the othe classes… But anyway heres the ultimate fix for everything:

Anyone using a mesmer portal for easy achieves only gain half the points, the rest goes to the wonderfull mesmer who was helped.

The mesmer also gain a title “Master of Altruism, Giver of cheeseness, Lord of good will, Ambassador of joy” (yep, its all in one title). Since im in good mood the person helped gain also the title “Purple butterfly cleaner of X” where X is the mesmer name!

I know that i would be so happy…

Nerf people’s passive speed buffs. I as a mesmer have no way to zoom through JPs like most other classes do, so clearly other classes have an exploitable advantage somethingsomething arglebargle blerg.