Guild Wars 2

Zoser.7245:

I’ve readed in other forum that you need change the original unlocked traits to make it work again. Play with them a bit. It should work.

thanks you right

Excellent. I’m glad they re-evaluated their position on this overly heavy-handed nerf they had in mind.

I really do hate to complain and have been nothing but positive about this patch, so I’m glad they changed their minds at least for now. (I have no problems with balancing OPd stuff, but I strongly believe you’ll kill off Condie Shatter if you nerf MtD that hard.)

Good going Anet! Glad you listened to us!

skcamow.3527:

Patch just hit – still 2 stacks per shatter. Good, hopefully it stays that way for the time being and they can evaluate. Also confusing combatants change to fury is real (EDIT: now called Master Fencer).

So, basically … it was what I said earlier …

There was no proof and people got out their torches and pitchforks for nothing.

Funny how that worked out, eh? :-p

Let’s not all now go “oh, good, they decided to not …”.

Let’s be honest … many people had knee-jerk reactions to word-of-mouth … with no hard evidence.

This thread has been an excellent example of the sort of thing the forums don’t need and probably why we see less interaction from the devs in the forums than we did when the game first launched.

Sebrent.3625:

skcamow.3527:

Patch just hit – still 2 stacks per shatter. Good, hopefully it stays that way for the time being and they can evaluate. Also confusing combatants change to fury is real (EDIT: now called Master Fencer).

So, basically … it was what I said earlier …

There was no proof and people got out their torches and pitchforks for nothing.

Funny how that worked out, eh? :-p

Let’s not all now go “oh, good, they decided to not …”.

Let’s be honest … many people had knee-jerk reactions to word-of-mouth … with no hard evidence. This was an excellent example of the sort of thing the forums don’t know and probably why we see less interaction from the devs in the forums than we did when the game first launched.

Nah, I’m with you on the whole whining based on misinformation or lack of it – I detest that actually, but that wasn’t the case here. The proof was clear for the people who witnessed it in the live stream. Whether or not you trust those many who posted about it without the “proof” is up to you.

Bottom line we’re looking pretty good for now, happy times for mesmer.

Just to be clear, I wasn’t directing that at you skcamow. Yours was just the post confirming that MtD was still 2 stacks of torment per illusion shattered.

Honestly, I think many of the posters in the mesmer forum owe some apologies … some harsh/dumb thing were said and horribly unwarranted

Sebrent.3625:

skcamow.3527:

Patch just hit – still 2 stacks per shatter. Good, hopefully it stays that way for the time being and they can evaluate. Also confusing combatants change to fury is real (EDIT: now called Master Fencer).

So, basically … it was what I said earlier …

There was no proof and people got out their torches and pitchforks for nothing.

Funny how that worked out, eh? :-p

Let’s not all now go “oh, good, they decided to not …”.

Let’s be honest … many people had knee-jerk reactions to word-of-mouth … with no hard evidence.

This thread has been an excellent example of the sort of thing the forums don’t need and probably why we see less interaction from the devs in the forums than we did when the game first launched.

What?

For all we know they changed their minds because of this thread. There’s no proof against that either.

Two scenarios:

we say nothing, it gets nerfed – bad outcome.
we say nothing, it stays the same – lucky.

we complain, it gets nerfed – worst outcome
we complain, it stays the same – best outcome.

I am very happy thank you – I am 100% happy I complained and 100% happy it stayed the same, so I don’t see what the need to belittle nearly everone in this thread is.

Direct statements by devs during a stream is hardly unsubstantiated rumors. The concerns were valid because there was a stated intent by the devs to nerf the trait. Your denial of that fact is rather odd.

Sebrent.3625:

Just to be clear, I wasn’t directing that at you skcamow. Yours was just the post confirming that MtD was still 2 stacks of torment per illusion shattered.

Honestly, I think many of the posters in the mesmer forum owe some apologies … some harsh/dumb thing were said and horribly unwarranted

Ok none of us got a screenshot from the stream to prove it to you, but please don’t go all high and mighty on what was a totally valid complaint.

I’m not going to apologise for absolutely nothing.

Which leads me to my next point … so many times in the past month I’ve been in the Mesmer subforum and felt like I was in the Thief subforum …

… it makes me sad.

… it makes me horribly disappointed in the current Mesmer community. It used to be better than this.

I highly doubt that they made a code change and then reverted it in that less than 24 hour span because of the torches and pitchforks here.

If you want to talk about high-and-mighty … the entitlement and angry outburst shown by the forum despite nothing truly concrete … and then showing no regret/remorse for that behavior after being shown that there was no reason for it.

But, that’s fine, if you think you never do any wrong, that’s your own issue to deal with … I only have to roll my eyes at the product of it on the occasional forum post.

So you’re completely denying the fact that the devs outright stated the intention to nerf MtD on the stream yesterday. Ok, that’s logical and sensible for sure.

Ultimately, the facts are thus, and arguing with them only makes you look exceedingly foolish:

1. The devs stated their intention to nerf MtD.
2. The forum produced a significant and nasty backlash to that stated intention.

Whether or not they ever put code down to change it (it’s just a numbers change, would take ~5 minutes to implement) is irrelevant. The forum reaction was justified based on available information.

The current situation of un-nerfed MtD can’t be attributed solely to the forum nor can that possibility be ruled out.

You’re simply saying ‘it didn’t happen, that means it never was going to happen, and you’re all lying to me about what the devs said they were going to do’. I’ve honestly not seen such an outright and willful ignoring of reality in some time.

Sebrent.3625:

Which leads me to my next point … so many times in the past month I’ve been in the Mesmer subforum and felt like I was in the Thief subforum …

… it makes me sad.

… it makes me horribly disappointed in the current Mesmer community. It used to be better than this.

I highly doubt that they made a code change and then reverted it in that less than 24 hour span because of the torches and pitchforks here.

If you want to talk about high-and-mighty … the entitlement and angry outburst shown by the forum despite nothing truly concrete … and then showing no regret/remorse for that behavior after being shown that there was no reason for it.

But, that’s fine, if you think you never do any wrong, that’s your own issue to deal with … I only have to roll my eyes at the product of it on the occasional forum post.

In defense of myself:

Not getting a screenshot is my bad (I was at work at the time so screen-capping something was admittedly the furthest thing on my mind/just glad the boss lets me watch the streams quietly). However the devs I mentioned did state that they intended a nerf to MtD during the stream. I am happy that they did not carry through without allowing us to try it out first.

That being said, I think it is a bit harsh of you to start screaming liar, liar at the top of your lungs because “forum drama” (which I refuse to take part in intentionally). I admit that a screenshot would have been better and I will do so in the future if another incident such as this comes up. As your signature says:

“Try your best to not make mistakes, but, when you do make mistakes, learn from them. Better yourself.”

That being said I feel you could have made your point without hopping on your soap box.

Blimey – we’ll simply have to agree to disagree.

I personally have not used any personal attacks vs devs and complained solely about the (very) bad idea of nerfing mtd based on concrete proof in twitch. I don’t know how to emphasise this point any further – they mentioned it specifically and that they were thinking about changing it to one stack.

I don’t know how you keep missing or denying this point, but I am not going to answer to such ridiculous misguided judgement from one person thinking they’re better than everyone.

I strongly believe what I posted was right and could have added to the pivot of nerfing or keeping mtd as it is. I believe if we had not caused this uproar then we might very well be looking at 1 torment stack per shatter right now. Whether it is true or not, I don’t know – and neither do you.

Anyone who has been in these forums for the last few years knows that with Mesmer, always expect the worst. This patch is the first significant good Mesmer patch since launch so for the first time ever we are actually happy about the work. To even see mention if making an existing average build even weaker with an unnecessary Nerf immediately reinforces every bit of negativity we have learnt to develop over the last few years because of past balance decisions.

Please take the misguided morality lesson elsewhere.

op state condi nerf and its bit true even if its not mtd trait

while other class got burning raise from 1 stack to 2 stack or bleeding and poison we still have 1 stack with AA staff
so our burning dmg went from 800 to 350
bleeding also as if we need to shatter as anet wants to our illusion dont have time to do their crit bleed so again nerf

regarding mtd – do you always do 4 clones shatter which means are you always on melee range – no so not always you get the full potential of the ip as offensive trait

which means over all we got nerf a bit (not much but still as nerf)

@messiah:
Good point. Burning per hit is now down. However, burning now stacks. So:

• Scenario: 1 WoC applies burning … weaker than before
• Scenario: 2 WoC each apply burning … dependent on condition damage
• Scenario: 3 WoC each applying burning … stronger than before

So while we had damage taken away from a single instance of burning, we had more “burst potential” given with the other hand from multiple instances of burning.

Given that the opponents we care about are the good players that know when the cleanse, I think this might be superior as rather than getting longer burning duration we get more stacks of burning.

You could be right though and it be worse and possibly an oversight on ANet’s part.

@Fay:
First, don’t say I said things that I have not at all said …

• Not once did I say the devs did/didn’t say it … just that no one has provided any concrete evidence.
• Not once have I used the words “lie”, “liar”, “lying”, nor any synonym thereof.
• Not once have I said that MtD will never be nerfed.

Second, these are the facts … you can try to twist them all you want…

• Was there hard-evidence that it was being done? Nope.
• Was there even hard-evidence that it was said? Nope.
• Did people, despite the lack of hard-evidence, flip out? Yep.
• Did people only have to wait less than 24 hours to find out if there was a reason to flip out or not? Yep.
• Did players on the forum complain about ArenaNet making “knee-jerk reactions” when, in fact, it was players on the forum making “knee-jerk reactions” to what they were told? Yep.

I can’t help but think that you don’t like these facts being called out due to yourself being one of the most vocal. A simple search of Fay.2357 on this thread shows this.

Is it really that hard to admit that you reacted far too quickly and harshly? That your words/actions were unwarranted?

Heck, this is just like back before we learned what we were getting from the specializations and you were all negative-nancy about it … and lo and behold, you were wrong again … and still wouldn’t admit it … just ignored it. Heck, look back and you’ll see all the times Chaos and I pointed out to you that “if we get it, we’ll remind you” … I even got him on one … but he was gracious enough to joke back with me about it. He showed good character.

@Happicakes
Not once did I call you or anyone a liar. I simply do not believe these things unless someone provides actual proof. Till then I simply think, “well, maybe it’s true”.

As far as my signature … yes, people should learn from this mistake they just made and not have such violent knee-jerk reactions to hearsay. I’m most disappointed in seeing that not only did people behave as such but now they aren’t even admitting to having even possibly done anything close to “wrong” / “unwarranted” / etc.

@Curunen:
I never said that you specifically did anything … read again.

I don’t think I’m better than any of you. Why does pointing out a mistake automatically mean I’m trying to say I’m better than you? That’s some horrible [lack of] logic.

I do think that I and others did behave better than others with regard to this thread. If you’d like to disagree, then please tell me how people throwing fits over this thread was “better” than saying “let’s wait and see since we don’t see any hard evidence”.

If you think it’s still “with Mesmer, always expect the worst”, then get over there with Pyroatheist (Fay) who was being like that before the specializations and chronomancer and was horribly wrong about practically everything he said.

• Has mesmer been nerfed? Yep.
• Have other classes been nerfed? Yep.
• Has mesmer been buffed? Yep.
• Have other classes been buffed? Yep.
• Has mesmer received changes that don’t make sense to the playerbase? Yep.
• Have other classes received changes that don’t make sense to the playerbase? Yep.

Welcome to MMOs. This stuff has been happening in them for over about 2 decades.

I’d like to agree with your sentiments, Sebrent, but what was alleged ended up being pretty accurate considering the sources were correct about Confusing Combatants being dropped. No “hard evidence” was necessary. The statements that were made came from the same source and was pretty accurate.

I fully believe they’ve been working on this stuff up until the last minute. The proof is in the pudding with the changes they’ve already made…

You don’t have to directly call someone a liar to make implications of lying. By your repeated refusal to acknowledge statements made by the devs in the stream yesterday, you are absolutely calling everyone who has mentioned that event a liar.

I was absolutely one of the most vocal people in calling this suggested change awful. I did this because unlike you, I have a quite good memory of all of the abysmal changes and last minute nerfs that the devs have layered upon Mesmer over the past several years. This sort of ill-conceived change was not anything outside of normal operating procedures for the devs, and the violent reaction by many people just goes to show that.

I feel completely justified in my actions, and I’m extremely pleased that the change was not implemented, whatever the reason. There’s absolutely no way for you to determine that the forum outcry was not a contributing factor to not nerfing MtD, and as such I would do it again in a heartbeat if I thought it would help keep this class playable.

As far as specializations go, my concerns were that the shield was going to be a niche weapon that doesn’t see a lot of use outside of very specific situations. I have yet to see a single argument against that, quite the contrary, everything we’ve seen supports my statement.

@MailMail:
I don’t disagree. If someone had shown a screenshot of the chat there’d be less to talk about, but I still think the behaviour of some was ridiculous … and I think that screenshot would still have warranted a “let’s see if they actually do it before we go burning down the town”.

The only nice thing I can say about the behaviour is that “I’ve seen worse.” … but that’s not really much :-/

@Fay (Pyroatheist):
So you are allowed to just assume that I called someone a liar and that makes it the same as me calling someone a liar? <sarcasm> Well, while we’re using logic … </sarcasm>

“Good memory unlike me?” You have no clue about my memory … which recalls things like ANet fixing Mesmer OH Weapons showing on clones made our underwater weapons not function at all … remember that one from the first months the game was out?

How about how Temporal Curtain and Veil used to be able to stack … even by running through the same one multiple times … but that got nerfed while Guardian symbols went from only refreshing the boon duration to stacking it …

Memory is working just fine … just like how you’re primarily known for being Pyroatheist, the creator of the Immortal Mesmer build … which ArenaNet killed quite a while back. How you’re now known for your knowledge of Mesmer history … despite the fact that there are plenty of us still around that know it too … just don’t boost ourselves because we don’t feel the need to.

The fact that you feel justified in your actions is what I’m horribly disappointed in.

• Would it have been so hard to “wait and see” ?
• Would it have been so hard to just express that you don’t think making such a change would be a good idea … instead of all that extra garbage that was spewed?
• Is it so hard to see how you just acted like a little hate-filled teenager who found a new outlet?

As far as specializations, your complaints were far more than about the shield … you were complaining that we’d get nothing even before any information was out. That we’d not get IP baseline … that Shield abilities would do no damage … and so on … and were wrong on all counts.

I grow tired of teen angst. It got your last account banned yet you still haven’t learned.

Lol teen drama. Revels in causing harm to others seems childish to me.

I would like to take this time to thank the developers for not nerfing Maim the Disillusioned right off the bat, and to further ask them to allot ample time for the community to gauge how Mesmer stacks up against other classes in regards to this new condition meta.

Edit:

I retract the above sentiments.

Nothing says vitriol like a good fight within the Mesmer forum community!

I guess I was so disgusted with the rumors that I’ve just been focused on my signet build, and now I have very little interest in trying Maim right now. haha

lol at “teen angst”…

I can’t be bothered with this nonsense drama – I don’t have to defend myself against your personal judgement on my point of view or my actions in this thread.

I 100% stand by what I posted, and yes for the record I also have played mesmer pretty much since launch so I do know the history of balance decisions.

I’m going to make a request for the moderators to lock this thread as it’s obvious neither side is going to compromise on this matter.

Sebrent.3625:

@Fay (Pyroatheist):
So you are allowed to just assume that I called someone a liar and that makes it the same as me calling someone a liar?

That’s not an assumption. I make plenty of exaggerations and assumptions, but this isn’t one of them. By denying that there there was reason for outcry, you’re denying that the devs stated there would be a nerf. By denying the devs stated the would be a nerf, you’re calling those who said the devs stated that liars.

Not assumption, not exaggeration, but straightforward deduction.

Sebrent.3625:

“Good memory unlike me?” You have no clue about my memory …

I’m glad your memory is working well. Due to that fact, you should be able to note the pattern of dev interactions with Mesmer. You’re treating the nerf they stated would happen as if it’s some crazy thing that they’d never do, when really it would have been just another line in the long list of irrational nerfs.

Sebrent.3625:

The fact that you feel justified in your actions is what I’m horribly disappointed in.

• Would it have been so hard to “wait and see” ?
• Would it have been so hard to just express that you don’t think making such a change would be a good idea … instead of all that extra garbage that was spewed?
• Is it so hard to see how you just acted like a little hate-filled teenager who found a new outlet?

Changes are much easier to stop than undo. Undoing a change requires an admission of wrongdoing, that they made a mistake. Not implementing a change can simply be hand-waved aside and forgotten, as this one will be soon.

Knowing this, I’ll happily spew as much vitriol as necessary to get folks riled up about a bad potential change. I’m not foolish enough to think the devs are going through and reading down every thread. What they might do, however, is scan threads for general sentiment, look at quantity of people commenting, look for general patterns.

I do my best to make those patterns form in the right way. Big threads with a cohesive message of opposition to the change can be galvanized into existence by a strong enough nudge, and so I nudge.

Sebrent.3625:

As far as specializations, your complaints were far more than about the shield … you were complaining that we’d get nothing even before any information was out. That we’d not get IP baseline … that Shield abilities would do no damage … and so on … and were wrong on all counts.

You’re mixing some things here rather significantly. I doubted, reasonably so, that we would get IP baseline. I was pleasantly surprised in this regard, but you’d be hard-pressed to make a convincing argument showing that my doubt on that change wasn’t valid.

The shield phantasm isn’t going to do much damage, and I was right on that. It’s more of a utility-type phantasm. There’s nothing wrong with that, but I was still correct in that prediction. The wall, imo, actually does more damage than seems balanced (yes, I’m saying the damage on it should be nerfed). I certainly won’t argue if it stays this way, but such a potent offensive utility skill generally shouldn’t also do a lot of damage.

Sebrent.3625:

It got your last account banned yet you still haven’t learned.

It did not. Explicit and aggravated breaking of forum ToS was the cause of that ban.

@Curunen:
I’m horribly confused why you’re having such an issue with this …

I didn’t ever call out any of your posts … in fact yours were far more reasonable than others.

“teen agnst” was directed at Pyro, not you … due to his post history here … not just recent.

I’m confused that you feel the need to state how long you’ve been here given that no one has claimed anything about your time here or your memory.

Overall, I’m just confused by your post … it’s like you’re taking everything said to anyone and redirecting it yourself and replying to that … you’re a Mesmer, not an iDefender ;-)

@Fay:
Claiming that no one has shown evidence is not saying that it didn’t happen. The rest of your logic is taking “leaps” … it’s sorely lacking.

Stating “wait and see” is not denying that it will ever happen. It is saying “stop being a rage filled child and see if it actually happens”.

You can continue to try to play with words, but your post history and banned account are both there as great, concrete facts about who you are and what you do.

I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed man. Continue being proud of your tantrums over things real and imagined.

Look, I really don’t enjoy this kind of argument, but I agree with Pyro’s thoughts that prevention of a bad balance decision is much easier than getting them to revert a bad decision, and the best way of preventing such a decision is to create an uproar on the forums.

So you can see – I was determined not to see mtd senselessly nerfed so I did whatever I could to prevent that.

I’m sorry if I reacted violently to your posts but I don’t believe that any of us here have to apologise to the devs for getting worked up over a potential bad balance decision. I believe everyone who posted annoyed comments in this thread did the right thing, and may have contributed to keeping the trait as it is.

@Curunen:
Posts like yours (yes, I went back through the thread and looked at them) possibly did.

The hate-filled garbage that some others spewed … I highly doubt did anything but have any dev that read them think “there (s)he goes again” and roll their eyes.

Some people need to realize that the person that fusses about everything is often ignored when they fuss as opposed to the calmer person who doesn’t tilt at every windmill.

Overall, I miss some of our Mesmer streamers who would have said “Well, that looks like it will suck. Here’s why I think so. Now let’s man-up, move on, and see what we can do anyways”.

As I said, devs don’t go through and actually read these threads. They have neither the time nor the effort to do that, and that’s just fine. As I also said, they’ll, at the most, scan threads for general sentiment and statement.

Content of individual posts doesn’t matter. A cohesive and strong message does.

Besides, I challenge you to find statements I made that can’t be backed with factual events.

Heh, funnily enough I just decided to go back and read through the thread – in hindsight the whole thing looks rather peaceful and polite! ^^

Anyway, can we make the most of enjoying the rest of this excellent patch. I don’t want this sour note to cause a rift in our forum when we’re all here to enjoy the same class.

From what I’ve played so far, if they don’t touch anything on mesmer I feel it could be really nice. Lets keep our fingers crossed.

Countless

Silverkey.2078:

I did some maths and confusion combatants was just bad. On the other hand perma-fury = massive bleeding from sharper images and with the pistol traits and the fast procs of the duelist, pistol may just be our best condition off-hand weapon. Before I saw these changes, that’s actually what I was hoping for…

assuming it still works as it did before the patch, fury will NOT influence your illusions’ crit chance

Mesmer Condi is just eating people alive in pvp.

phokus.8934:

Mesmer Condi is just eating people alive in pvp.

Yeah, people who can’t dodge shatters

Curunen.8729:

Heh, funnily enough I just decided to go back and read through the thread – in hindsight the whole thing looks rather peaceful and polite! ^^

Anyway, can we make the most of enjoying the rest of this excellent patch. I don’t want this sour note to cause a rift in our forum when we’re all here to enjoy the same class.

Agreed. Lets enjoy the good times before the meta solidifies!

Well, they nerfed Mtg, that’s really disappointing.

Mesmer

Maim the Disillusioned: Reduced the torment from 2 stacks for 6 seconds to 1 stack for 6 seconds.

Lats update

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-June-23-2015/first#post5196957

And no other classes condi builds touched.

kittening joke.

Someone’s about to feel silly …

:(

Well at least I’ve been playing with it for the last two hours, and was able to win 90% of my matches. I guess I’ll go back to my signets build! Maim no more!

Sebrent.3625:

@Curunen:
I’m horribly confused why you’re having such an issue with this …

I didn’t ever call out any of your posts … in fact yours were far more reasonable than others.

“teen agnst” was directed at Pyro, not you … due to his post history here … not just recent.

I’m confused that you feel the need to state how long you’ve been here given that no one has claimed anything about your time here or your memory.

Overall, I’m just confused by your post … it’s like you’re taking everything said to anyone and redirecting it yourself and replying to that … you’re a Mesmer, not an iDefender ;-)

---

@Fay:
Claiming that no one has shown evidence is not saying that it didn’t happen. The rest of your logic is taking “leaps” … it’s sorely lacking.

Stating “wait and see” is not denying that it will ever happen. It is saying “stop being a rage filled child and see if it actually happens”.

You can continue to try to play with words, but your post history and banned account are both there as great, concrete facts about who you are and what you do.

I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed man. Continue being proud of your tantrums over things real and imagined.

can u like stop attacking pyro?!? pyro has always been helpful and yes he got banned because he stood up for the mesmer community. u are free to have an opinion, but personally attacking pyro makes me not even wanna listen to anything u have to say. if u have constructive input that doent attack others or complains about pyro, feel free to add that otherwise u are wasting your breath!

No!!!! Maim!!!!!
Couldn’t they just reduce duration? Half is just…. sad
They already nerfed torment as a condition compared to last week’s announce (the passive at least), now we just can’t apply torment anyway…

Silverkey.2078:

No!!!! Maim!!!!!
Couldn’t they just reduce duration? Half is just…. sad
They already nerfed torment as a condition compared to last week’s announce (the passive at least), now we just can’t apply torment anyway…

yeah its a shame. a reduction would have been sufficient. i still see decent ways of applying torment though, but i cant say much yet as i havent tested out the condi build i have in mind.

I am fortunate that I am never a condie lover. But condie mesmer will never be a thing.

Go to my thread and give it a +1, who knows maybe if enough people speak out now while its fresh then maybe we can get mtg back where it was before.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Revert-Maim-The-Disillusioned/first#post5199532

Guys it’s okay, we can still apply vulnerability !!

Sebrent.3625:

Is it really that hard to admit that you reacted far too quickly and harshly? That your words/actions were unwarranted?

Well that’s awkward. Unwarranted and too quickly and harshly indeed.

Fay.2357:

Sebrent.3625:

Is it really that hard to admit that you reacted far too quickly and harshly? That your words/actions were unwarranted?

Well that’s awkward. Unwarranted and too quickly and harshly indeed.

id say forget about this guys pyro! he acts like he is an authority and even threatens by mentioning that he was the one that got u banned etc. people like that dont deserve your attentiong. we mesmers however need u for our builds we are coming up with atm and our bugs and problems. ;-) (yesss pyro where is my wvw build!!!?!?!no more sleeping for u! get to work! i need my wvw build now!)

…

GG Anet, bye bye condi shatter.

Oh my unfortunately our fears were right…Condition mesmers have been teased and then put back in their place in a slap! Why can’t the devs be more open about what they are doing, those stealthy nerfs are difficult to diggest. Do you think that other classes will receive the same treatment?

What is everybody going to call their Engineer?

Fay.2357:

Sebrent.3625:

Is it really that hard to admit that you reacted far too quickly and harshly? That your words/actions were unwarranted?

Well that’s awkward. Unwarranted and too quickly and harshly indeed.

+1

In this case at least, hindsight was not just 20/20 for one side, but both.

Nothing foolish about making your voice heard! I’m guessing it made the devs at least hold off on the nerf long enough to let us play it. That much I appreciate, but sadly they’re still completely wrong on nerfing MtD! It clearly is not the root of the problem! If there even was one, which IMO there really wasn’t. It was bads who have not adjusted to a patch yet, that MtD wrecked. These same players playing “one trick pony” Power builds have always gotten destroyed by MtD. Guess what, if you don’t bring Condie clear, or your team doesn’t bring adequate cleansing for you, then you will die a horrible death against all Condition burst builds.

Now we’re relegated to a functional single-target Condition build, with very very little AoE pressure. And no, one stack of fairly short duration Confusion here or there from Blinds via Ineptitude doesn’t even come close to make up for the 50% butchering of MtD.

Together they merely produced the kind of burst that Power Shatter always has, and can now deliver with hugely improved defenses instantly. There was nothing wrong with that. Bring adequate cleansing, and you literally still completely shut down an MtD shatter build. (I witnessed this first hand by Eles, Warriors, and Guardians whom I was still completely unable to scratch with MtD re-nerf.)

This was nerfed based on Golem testing. Plain and simple.

@Windwalker:
Lol, aye at the 20/20.

Yep. I was wrong about calling it a knee-jerk reaction. Apologies.

I still think acting like a rage-filled teenager is dumb … and it accomplished nothing.

The child that always whines will be ignored as opposed to the calmer child who won’t be ignored when they whine because it’s an actual change.

Constantly griping about everything ruins the signal-to-noise ratio.

@Pyro
Let’s be clear about a difference. MtD was not nerfed for several hours. There was hard evidence of it seen by all. Heck, it was still not nerfed when I got off work and finally put the kids to bed. The claim that the devs were going to nerf it had 0 hard evidence until they actually did it … unless you count word-of-mouth as hard evidence.

I don’t agree with the change, but perhaps we’ll still see MtD used since it no longer competes with IP for a trait slot. That does make this slightly different than With the new system, it only competes with 1 Might per illusion shattered or +20% attack speed for phantasms. That’s a bit more of a toss-up; will have to look at the math for various scenarios to see what is “optimal”. My intuition is that the Might is better given that you already have some other conditions on the target and/or after some additional other hits while that Might is on you.

This is going in the list of things ArenaNet has done that don’t make much sense to me. I don’t see why we weren’t given more time to playtest it and I don’t see why some other things that I saw more outcry over in map chat (and some people whispering me to ask “wth”) about other things like Thief burst … but anyone who can do addition saw that one coming.