Guild Wars 2

Mesmers have a lot of glitchy or sub-par skills that desperately need fixing or improvement. I’m making this thread in the hopes that Anet will see it and maybe fix the worst ones, which I’ve listed below:

#1: Illusionary Leap: This skill is so unpredictably buggy, it’s barely usable. I believe it should be changed to be similar to the Guardian’s #2 sword skill. The reworked skill would function as follows:

Upon cast, the Mesmer would instantly shadowstep/blink behind their target in melee range, applying Immobilize and Vulnerability to their target. At the same time, a clone would be summoned at the location they teleported from, solving the extremely crippling issue of the clone’s pathing, which only works about 30% of the time.

#2: Phantasmal Warden: Currently, this skill is glitched so that the Warden follows targets at 900 range. Seeing as the Warden’s attack range is 130, it needs to follow targets at 130 range. The current follow distance drastically reduces the phantasm’s usability. Please, for the love of all things holy, fix this.

#3: Mind Stab: While a recent patch improved this ability by reducing the aftercast, the spell is still rather weak, and extremely small for an AoE. This can be improved in one of two ways:

1. Improve the radius to 180.

2. Lower the base damage but increase its damage against targets with no boons, much like the Sword’s third swing ability.

#4: Mantras: I personally don’t use Mantras and know very few people who do. By itself, that fact is a testament to their viability: The spells are just too slow and easy to interrupt. Because I don’t have any real experience using them, I can’t offer a concrete suggestion, but I believe the general consensus is that the cast time is too long. Perhaps this could be shortened, or made un-interruptable?

#5: Time Warp: A while back, many classes got improvements to their Quickness abilities. While this is nothing major, I would like to see one or both of the following things happen to Time Warp:

1. Add a combo field (either Ethereal or Light) to Time Warp.

2. Make Time Warp a Glamour. It’s already quite similar to all other Glamours, and I don’t think adding the Glamour fact to it would be horribly game-breaking.

Those are just my suggestions. If you guys have any more, please comment with something you’d like fixed! Let’s make Anet hear our voices! We Mesmers want a higher quality of life, and we want it now!

While I agree on a lot of things, I disagree heavily on the Warden. A lion share of using that Phantasm is having it not move around.

Otter.6348:

1. Add a combo field (either Ethereal or Light) to Time Warp.

Done!
(It is already an Ethereal combo field)

I disagree. The Warden is – as all Phantasms are- an offensive tool. To have it stand idly there with its mouth agape while the foe runs the opposite direction is simply bad design. And it’s certainly not doing this intentionally – the range issue is listed as a known glitch in the sticky at the top of the forum.

So Phantasmal Defender and Disenchanter are offensive tools? I don’t think so. The tooltip for the Warden even says he deflects projectiles, toting him as a defensive thing.

It used to not move at all btw. The fact that it runs at 900 range was added later.

Regardless – The 900 range isn’t doing anything especially useful. I believe I’m in the majority when I say I’d like the Warden to move into melee range between attacks, in the same fashion the Berserker does.

Ok, my own take on each issue:

Leap
Would love to see this fixed. However, as it’s a general game issue and not a Mesmer-specific thing, and it has been around a while already, I suspect this is something wrong deep in the pathing/movement code. As in: they will get it fixed, some day. Someone has to sit down and basically re-implement parts of the engine.

Phantasmal Warden
As said, I see it as a defensive tool. Another issue could be thakittens damage and proc potential are so high that we’ll see a substantial damage nerf if it could move after foes. It works well as a specialized Phantasm to do AE damage to stacked groups and to block projectiles, especially with a traited Focus.
Not sure what we’d benefit from removing it’s niche and making it “just another” damage phantasm really. Moving right after finishing one attack cycle would be ok, OTOH. I do however predict a nerf to damage and/or crit-combo-potential in that case, as the focus is already such a go-to offhand.

Mind Stab
Definitely. I prefer the same treatment Mind Stab on the 1H Sword got, it makes sense for a boon-ripping move. Either rip a boon, or do extra damage.

Mantras
Ugh. For starters, I’d return to a single charge and remove Harmonious Mantras entirely (that trait is 95% of the problems Mantras have faced, they could receive substantial buffs if it weren’t for that trait making them overpowered if they would get buffs – even at 2 charges base).
Then, make it so that Mantras charge 1,5s per already charged Mantra + 1,5s. So the first Mantra charges in 1,5s, then 3,0s, then kitten , then 6,0 is you are actually using four.
As a result of this, increase the power of the single mantra charge and the trait in Duelling.
The point would be to give increased front-loaded power in return for lower post-burst power.
And yes, this will unbalance 1v1. Couldn’t care any less, this is at the smallest a group-based game, it needs to worry about group-balance not duelling-balance.

Time Warp
Fine, still our most versatile and in general use strongest Elite, and quite powerful on it’s own. I would heavily oppose making it a glamour though, but this is because I feel that – in general! – no elite should be affected by traits unless it’s a trait specifically targetting only that elite or all elites (see Engineer Elite supplies for how to do it right, and our Mass Invisibility or in fact half of all elites on how to do it wrong).
The issue is: Elites need to be powerful, and they cannot be so if the devs also have to account for 5 traits potentially affecting one.

Otter.6348:

Make Time Warp a Glamour. It’s already quite similar to all other Glamours, and I don’t think adding the Glamour fact to it would be horribly game-breaking.

Would make TW have a shorter CD in some builds, and Elites are elites, no shorter CD. Therefore no Glamour skill.

Would make TW have a shorter CD in some builds, and Elites are elites, no shorter CD. Therefore no Glamour skill.

False. Warriors have an Elite signet, Rangers have an Elite Survival skill, Thieves have an Elite Venom, Elementalists have an Elite Glyph, Necromancers have an Elite Minion.
All of those can be affected by Traits that lower cooldown or cause additional effects. In fact, Mesmer is one of the only classes without an Elite that can be modified by Traits.

1. This is not a problem of the skill. Is the terrain, all the leap skills suffers from the same, if the terrain is not completely flat, these skills tend to fail.

1. As carighan said, the particularity of this phantasm makes it unique, extremely good for zerg in WvW and multi mobs in PvE, but instead weak in 1vs1 or bosses situations. It can also be played as a protector to anything against projectiles.

1. I think that it could be upgraded if it removed 2 boons instead of one. I find the radius and the damage OK, but it’s useless to waste time with this skill for what I can get from sword autoattack.

1. I think the un-interruptable way is the best. Mantras needs a long cast time, since they provide multiple effects with no CD.

1. Actually, Time Warp is an ethereal field, like glamour skills. I also think it should be considered as a Glamour skill, cause the similarities with Feedback and Null Field are obvious.
   Also, Mesmers and thiefs are the 2 classes that cannot upgrade their elites through anything. The problem is that thief elites have way shorter CD’s and we have to deal with being the second class with longest elites.

We can upgrade Mass Invisibility, Ansau.

Otter.6348:

Would make TW have a shorter CD in some builds, and Elites are elites, no shorter CD. Therefore no Glamour skill.

False. Warriors have an Elite signet, Rangers have an Elite Survival skill, Thieves have an Elite Venom, Elementalists have an Elite Glyph, Necromancers have an Elite Minion.
All of those can be affected by Traits that lower cooldown or cause additional effects. In fact, Mesmer is one of the only classes without an Elite that can be modified by Traits.

You forgot Mass Invisibility.

And Thieves can modify one of their elites, too.

Basilisk Venom can gain +1 charge and (more importantly) can be spread to other friendly players with a trait.

Carighan, you also forget that we’re also dealing with a game situation where at least one class (Guardian) has a Master Trait that affects -IIRC- every one of their Elites. As such, I do not see an issue with a Trait modifying TW. As is, our one Trait that effects MI is a freaking Grandmaster.

In addition, I’m surprised none of you have suggested removing Moa entire. We’re Illusionist/Psion-types, not Transmuters. Why in the bleeding Hells does that
Elite even exist? I’d say scrap the darn thing, replace it with something befitting our overall theme.

Regarding the other ideas, I’d leave P. Warden alone, but would do the following to Mind Stab:

• Increase AoE to 180. This should not be OP, when one considers that it is manually targeted.
• Transform it into a Blast Finisher. We, like Rangers, have a distinct lack of Blast Finishers. This would improve our in-built Comboing potential, and party support options.

I. Leap does need some form of changeover to defeat the pathing/LoS Curse. I like Otter’s idea on that one, although we would want to look at potential balance concerns.

Mantras … what can I say about those, honestly. They really are the misbegotten child, in regards to Mesmer skills. Besides the use of HM in concert with ’em, we really should brainstorm that topic, forum-wide.

My old idea was to scrap them (Mantras), but retain some of the “pay now, gain later” idea in reverse, Illusions.

We already have Illusion of Life (so there’s need for a new Manipulation skill!), but I’d add three more:

Illusion of Pain
Target takes X damage instantly. After Y seconds, target is healed for X health. Against strong enemies (read: Legendaries, Champions, Veterans) all damage taken is increased by 25% during the first half of this effect, during the second half all damage taken is reduced by 20%.

Illusion of Power
Gain Fury and Vigor for 8 seconds, which cannot be removed. After the effect ends, gain Weakness for 8 seconds, which cannot be removed.

Illusion of Health
Target friendly unit doesn’t lose any health for 6 seconds. After the effect ends, that unit is reduced to 1 health and cannot be healed for 4 seconds.

One caveat to these Illusions would be that a single unit can only suffer or gain from a single illusion at a time, this includes the second effect. So while Illusion of Power is applying Weakness to me, I cannot press Illusion of Health on myself (will simply not fire).

Could make for some interesting combat dynamics. One issue would be that currently, Mantras are a major source of condition cleansing and our only way (sans Arcane Thievery) to acquire Stability. We’d have to then figure how to work around those two
problems.

Oh good point, I need to rework my old ideas to at least incorporate those two (+burst damage IMO). Illusion of Health could potentially work for Mantra of Recovery, but the issue there would be that it’s not truly a healing skill, and the whole illusion concept is iffy when it comes to healing as a “proper” healing skill.

I don’t consider PU a way to improve our elite, just because then we would also need to consider boon duration and condition duration also an improvement for elites, so even it lets us in a much worst situation, since stealth is an effect of the whole game, not an exclusively part of MI.

PD: I forgot that Basilik Venom from thiefs also gets the benefits from venom traits, so it let us, Mesmers, as the only class that cannot improve CD or duration of our elites.

well mantras sounded so interesting, but i barely see anyone using them and even if i would try to use mantras and trait for it, it is simply not viable at all. plus the casttime is ridiculus. what if i am in a middle of a zerg? i will have to pull out and try to recharge all my mantras…its simply not working at all atm.

so either they fix that cast time, make them uniterruptable, or get rid of all of them and give us something new.

i would also like for mantras to have more than a 1v1 thing going.

wanna see the dev’s that defend mantras and think they are viable try to kill all the champions at the queens gaunlet with mantras.
i dare the balance team to all play mesmers in spvp and wvw. lets see what patch we would get after that..;-)

Please, selan … you know they main Thieves. Mind you, I like Thief for the same reason I dig Mesmer. But, c’mon.

Advent.6193:

Please, selan … you know they main Thieves. Mind you, I like Thief for the same reason I dig Mesmer. But, c’mon.

lol, actually i heard jonathan sharp mains a necro…., ut hey i really wanna see them on a live stream playing all characters and lots of different builds while trying to defeat all the champions there.
i think the following patches would change a lot after that. grrrrr liardiiii! XD

@Ansau:
I see PU as exactly what venom traits do for Thieves. They affect a set of abilities based on their effect type, one of which happens to be an elite. For us it’s stealth, starts rapidly giving boons (and lasts slightly longer). For thieves it’s venoms, being shared out to the party (and having +1 charge).

About a month ago, I started a reworked concept of mantras. I may finish it up and post it soon.

Leap could be fixed by having the clone appear next to the target (like the scepter clones). But this may make the time between clone generation and the swap too quick.

TooBz.3065:

Leap could be fixed by having the clone appear next to the target (like the scepter clones). But this may make the time between clone generation and the swap too quick.

I was considering that, too. My personal favorite solution is to have I. Leap function in the same way as the Guardian’s Sword #2 skill, but this might be a little bit too quick for PvP situations.

Another solution would be this: Make I. Leap ACT like a projectile without BEING a projectile.

On cast, an unreflectable “projectile” would launch at the target at roughly the same speed as the Clone from I. Leap already travels. Upon touching its target, it summons a clone, which can then be swapped as normal. This might be a slightly more complicated but more balance solution.

Mantras need some help big time. In pvp when you charge a mantra it’s the same as putting a huge sign above your head saying “kill me, I’m defenseless!”.

not sure if anyone else noticed, but I often throw mirror blade through light fields and even though it says it cleared a condition often it dosen’t really.

Can we have our Moa elite changed into something useful too? In its original state is was only really useful as a troll move in its current state it isn’t even really worth it for that.

Also as always +1 for more out of combat speed and mobility.

Levetty.1279:

Can we have our Moa elite changed into something useful too? In its original state is was only really useful as a troll move in its current state it isn’t even really worth it for that.

Also as always +1 for more out of combat speed and mobility.

Moa is very peculiar and is only effective with a very coordinated team. When you drop Moa your team needs to tackle and burn down the target quickly. Otherwise, if the Moa gets away the 3 minute CD spell is wasted. It is primarily useful right at the beginning of a mid-point fight to quickly burn down the opposing tank. It’s relatively useless in a 1v1 because that Moa can really hurt and is very mobile. I think the spell should be an instant cast, have 150s CD or less, and the duration should be 15s.

Was considering ways to increase swiftness uptime/run speed but didn’t feel they were ideas worth starting a new thread for so hopefully it’s alright to throw them in here.

I don’t know if this has been discussed before or not but what do people think about changing out the first minor trait in Chaos for 5s of swiftness for each second of stealth? Then throw the rejuv at 75% health in with the 15 point minor in Chaos and we don’t really lose anything and simply gain a bit of swiftness. With it, we get two offhands that offer swiftness (torch and focus), two utilities (three I suppose if you include the randomness of signet of inspiration) that give it as well (decoy, veil) and an elite that would also provide swiftness (mass invis).

It’s still not great (some pretty long CDs for a short swiftness boost), but at least this way we have a few more ways of obtaining swiftness without it being OP or groundbreaking IMO. The only complaint I can see is other classes complaining about buffing our ability to run away but really, how different is it to elementalists or thieves? Also, we could get away just fine without it before anyhow so no big difference I believe.

So TL;DR

New Chaos 5 point minor:
Deceptive Speed – For every 1s in stealth, the mesmer gains 5s of swiftness. Stackable.

Revamped Chaos 15 point minor (Metaphysical rejuv gets added to illusionary membrane):
Rejuvenating Membrane – 10s of regen when health hits 75% (30s CD) and gain protection for 3s when you gain regen (15s CD).

What do you all think?

We could only wish. But they’re so focused on the idea that Mesmers are OP. It doesn’t help that, no matter how much Nerfbat we get to the collective face, folks still cry like spoiled brats about the class as a whole. Meh.

Advent.6193:

We could only wish. But they’re so focused on the idea that Mesmers are OP. It doesn’t help that, no matter how much Nerfbat we get to the collective face, folks still cry like spoiled brats about the class as a whole. Meh.

To be fair, if we just got our bugs and inconsistencies fixed, we’d skyrocket to #1, easily.
Because in turn for how many broken and weird things we have, we have a handful of really powerful abilities.

I’d like to see those nerfed. In return for getting the bugs and oddities fixed.

That would make too much sense, Carighan. And we both know it. For what it’s worth, I wouldn’t mind that outcome in the least, since maybe then, the class can stop being the whipping boy for mass QQ and Nerfs.

Would it really be that OP though? Sigh, I love my mesmer but the lack of swiftness without having to switch to focus makes me so so sad.

woopwop.9281:

Would it really be that OP though? Sigh, I love my mesmer but the lack of swiftness without having to switch to focus makes me so so sad.

Engis need to spend 10 traitpoints and select a specific trait, Guardians need a staff… this isn’t exactly a Mesmer-only problem. And honestly, there is already an automatic OOC runspeed buff, it should just get increased if it’s too slow.

I’m honestly not bothered with Mind Stab, I find it quite good but situational. It’s a nice skill move on the GS, which can still do quite a bit of damage in cluster fights. Either way, feels pretty minor.

What’s more major to me is:

1. Leap just has to change. I agree with A-Net that skills like this are never truly fixable in a mmo with latency and terrain etc, -so change it-.

2. Warden should really follow the target. If you cannot follow the warden for the projectile reflect, then how can you dodge the enemy’s abilities? It just requires a little awareness, given how its FX is very obvious. In fact I think it would be easier to use its reflect if it moved with the enemy, since you wouldn’t have to make judgement calls on stopping to follow as needed.

3. Speed is frustrating but not sure how to fix. Focus seems too good compared to the other offhands because of it, despite that I feel we have overall good offhand skills.

Amethyst Lure.5624:

What’s more major to me is:

1. Leap just has to change. I agree with A-Net that skills like this are never truly fixable in a mmo with latency and terrain etc, -so change it-.

2. Warden should really follow the target. If you cannot follow the warden for the projectile reflect, then how can you dodge the enemy’s abilities? It just requires a little awareness, given how its FX is very obvious. In fact I think it would be easier to use its reflect if it moved with the enemy, since you wouldn’t have to make judgement calls on stopping to follow as needed.

3. Speed is frustrating but not sure how to fix. Focus seems too good compared to the other offhands because of it, despite that I feel we have overall good offhand skills.

I agree completely.