Guild Wars 2

First off, I just want to make clear that I think that the mechanic of the chronomancer is actually really cool. The ability to control time; slowing/stopping enemies while speeding up allies, meanwhile we also get to replay/reset out skillbar (to a certain degree). We basically help to control that battle and that sounds really fun.

That being said. TWO skills? Really? The dragon hunter get 5 skills, plus a revamp of their current special feature (which practically gave them 3 more action skills). The reaper gets 10 because they get an upgrade of their current special feature too. From the trailer we can tell that rangers will get at least 5 (since they are getting the staff), and the engineers will get 5 as well (from hammer), plus others for their F5 slot. The elementalist will get at least 8 new skills regardless of what weapon they get, and they might even get more if their specialization is another type of element.

The reason I call it the " back hand compliment" of specializations, is because it practically says " hey, here’s the ability to increase your recharges and even replay skills, so now you can use all your old skills even more often!" All the other professions are getting all these new, fun, flashy skills and it feels like we’re getting the short end of the skill stick. Although my mesmer is my main character, I’m much more interested in seeing/playing those new skills the other profession are getting, than I am at learning my main character’s new specialization. And that’s a sentiment I share with many others. The bottom line is we need more skills, it’s only fair.

It is not beyond imagination to give mesmers a dagger. Skill 1 could be similar to the scepter, where the 3rd hit summons a clone, while the first 2 could apply a condition. Skill 2 could be something like “Dancing Daggers: Summon illusionary daggers that surround you blocking attacks for a short time; Click again to send the daggers flying around you causing damage, crippling, and bleeding foes around you”. Skill 3 could be a bouncing dagger that summons a phantasmal rogue at the last hit, and stealths you. Depending on how you want the specialization to work the dagger could have slow condition on its skills. And this is just one simple option, thought of in 20 min. There are many other option that can be fun and flashy like the other skills released for the other professions.

Now, I’m not completely out of touch with reality. I know that the expansion has a deadline and that adding a new weapon takes time with all the art, and the balance. I just hope that this issue is taken seriously, and into consideration, and that in maybe a month or two after the expansion comes out there is an updated to the mesmer. So that way mesmers will be at par with the other professions (in terms of skills). Otherwise it’s just gonna be another year or two or more before we maybe see anything new for the profession again. Which is simply not fair.

They could have at least changed the mainhand skills we have when equipped with a shield….or make it like the thioef where the combination of a weapon with a shield gives a combo skill.

But nope, a 90 sec cd convoluted cd reset that shatters your dps source is what comes out of a pvp-centric class developer.

I understand you. Some specializations are receiving even 6 new skills more than us.

The picture is something like:

“We are the child, looking for new ways to play with his old toys while the other childs plays and have fun with their new toys”. Sigh

The dark side of this is that, even with the potential of alacrity, the bat of the balance team will be there. Their work is maintain more or less the same final potential between all professions. So, at the end, you are going to be equally effective with a higher skill ceiling and less new toys to play with.

Zenith.7301:

is what comes out of a pvp-centric class developer.

haha, 10/10, good one

To be honest, I’d rather get good mileage out of the ~20 skills I like and use now than a couple more weapon skills.

Plus, Evasive Mirror is cooler to me than anything you could put on a weapon.

I’m really looking forward to this: http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgMB2AJcBlg~ Or this: http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgMFaAJcBlg~ Shatter Build.

The new continuum burst will be insane. Doubt I’ll be using a shield though.

Teutos.8620:

Zenith.7301:

is what comes out of a pvp-centric class developer.

haha, 10/10, good one

Totally, all those traits in chronomancy are super useful PvE traits.

As are all the interrupt traits he revamped the mesmer with.

I share your sentiment. All those threads about how Chrono is cooler or better than X profession is like something someone would make to lie to himself. Or how our traits are better. No, not really. Their traits work with their other trait tree lines too. Let’s be objective.

So far, DH and Reaper are specializations that cover something the profession was lacking. Guardian : range, got LB. Necro : melee aoe cleave, got GS. I believe one of the problem we have (mesmer) is a lack of main hand options (precisely : power, ranged, main hand). What we got ? A support off hand.

Did we get a shatter rework ? No. They did. I believe necro new DS gonna have new underwater skills too. Not that it’s gonna change everything, but they get in total 20 new skills. Only other profession that can get a weak spec is gonna be warrior or thief.

Where is the funeral? Did I miss it?

Zenith.7301:

Teutos.8620:

Zenith.7301:

is what comes out of a pvp-centric class developer.

haha, 10/10, good one

Totally, all those traits in chronomancy are super useful PvE traits.

As are all the interrupt traits he revamped the mesmer with.

Currently the two most underwhelming profession in PvP are: Mesmer & Necro; so just a coincidence that they both share the same developer?
Compare that to the DH in which livestream they killed Svanir a PvP mob, and didn’t show some PvE-Boss footage

Teutos.8620:

Zenith.7301:

Teutos.8620:

Zenith.7301:

is what comes out of a pvp-centric class developer.

haha, 10/10, good one

Totally, all those traits in chronomancy are super useful PvE traits.

As are all the interrupt traits he revamped the mesmer with.

Currently the two most underwhelming profession in PvP are: Mesmer & Necro; so just a coincidence that they both share the same developer?
Compare that to the DH in which livestream they killed Svanir a PvP mob, and didn’t show some PvE-Boss footage

Mesmer underwhelming in pvp? Man seriously cant get enough of qqs.

Teutos.8620:

Zenith.7301:

Teutos.8620:

Zenith.7301:

is what comes out of a pvp-centric class developer.

haha, 10/10, good one

Totally, all those traits in chronomancy are super useful PvE traits.

As are all the interrupt traits he revamped the mesmer with.

Currently the two most underwhelming profession in PvP are: Mesmer & Necro; so just a coincidence that they both share the same developer?
Compare that to the DH in which livestream they killed Svanir a PvP mob, and didn’t show some PvE-Boss footage

lol only thieves hardcounter mesmers. Mesmer takes a crap on everything else, if thief didn’t exist mesmer would be meta in spvp and for roaming/dueling mesmer is more than fine.

StickerHappy.8052:

Mesmer underwhelming in pvp? Man seriously cant get enough of qqs.

Zenith.7301:

lol only thieves hardcounter mesmers. Mesmer takes a crap on everything else, if thief didn’t exist mesmer would be meta in spvp and for roaming/dueling mesmer is more than fine.

You are both totally right, every top team plays with a mesmer… oh wait… last go4cups there was only 1 mesmer on EU → Helseth
Even Misha changed to Offguard, because Mesmer is not strong enough.

Teutos.8620:

StickerHappy.8052:

Mesmer underwhelming in pvp? Man seriously cant get enough of qqs.

Zenith.7301:

lol only thieves hardcounter mesmers. Mesmer takes a crap on everything else, if thief didn’t exist mesmer would be meta in spvp and for roaming/dueling mesmer is more than fine.

You are both totally right, every top team plays with a mesmer… oh wait… last go4cups there was only 1 mesmer on EU -> Helseth
Even Misha changed to Offguard, because Mesmer is not strong enough.

Do you play weekly cups? High tier pvp? ToL?

We may only get one profession skill out of it, but it’s an incredibly powerful, borderline broken skill. Dragonhunter and Reaper skills do considerably less, and there’s a much higher opportunity cost in that you have to sacrifice your existing skills. The Chronomancer doesn’t have to sacrifice anything but one traitline, and has the lowest tradeoff of any spec we’ve seen so far.

Reaper and Dragonhunter got more skills, but we got more utility overall.

StickerHappy.8052:

Do you play weekly cups? High tier pvp? ToL?

No, I don’t. Since I can’t see my MMR, hard to tell at which level I’m playing.
Still don’t get your point. I am not good enough to participate in the WTS, but I also don’t have a problem playing mesmer in normal ranked pvp.

Still, every (except one) top mesmer switched away from mesmer to be more effective in the WTS. Do you know any facts, that I don’t know?

Just telling you, that the argument, that Robert is focused on pvp is wrong, otherwise the profession would not be in it’s current state (= not played at the WTS-tier).

Teutos.8620:

StickerHappy.8052:

Do you play weekly cups? High tier pvp? ToL?

No, I don’t. Since I can’t see my MMR, hard to tell at which level I’m playing.
Still don’t get your point. I am not good enough to participate in the WTS, but I also don’t have a problem playing mesmer in normal ranked pvp.

Still, every (except one) top mesmer switched away from mesmer to be more effective in the WTS. Do you know any facts, that I don’t know?

Just telling you, that the argument, that Robert is focused on pvp is wrong, otherwise the profession would not be in it’s current state (= not played at the WTS-tier).

So where are you getting that Mesmer is underwhelming in PvP?

Are other people’s experience with mesmer a reflection of yours? So there’s only 1 mesmer in EU top tier, so Is that enough to say mesmer is underwhelming in pvp?

A lot of us mesmers here play competitively in PvP.

Again that guy Robert has made a lot of better changes for mesmers and still you people are not contented?

I would take the changes robert made any day than the state we had before.

It is a broken logic to deduce the state of a class from top tier PvP, when the majority of players don’t play top tier PvP. We have a certain “meta”, this is normal. But having a certain “meta” does neither mean that everyone plays the most effective nor that this is the only “meta” possible.

Does Mesmer have issues in PvP? Yes! Does that mean the class is garbage in PvP? Certainly not. Also we do not know yet, how the meta will develop in HoT.

TyPin.9860:

It is a broken logic to deduce the state of a class from top tier PvP, when the majority of players don’t play top tier PvP. We have a certain “meta”, this is normal. But having a certain “meta” does neither mean that everyone plays the most effective nor that this is the only “meta” possible.

Does Mesmer have issues in PvP? Yes! Does that mean the class is garbage in PvP? Certainly not. Also we do not know yet, how the meta will develop in HoT.

Exactly this, all the crying, dramas make me sick.

• We get nerfed, waaaaaa!
• We get buffs, waaaaaaa!
• We get bad changes, waaaaa!
• We get good changes, waaaaa!

How bout not getting any changes at all?

Lemme guess? Waaaaaaaa!

StickerHappy.8052:

So where are you getting that Mesmer is underwhelming in PvP?

In the past there where enough top mesmer, who loved to play their profession. Please tell me why they have all changed. I can tell you → their team runs better with another profession, so they switched.

So there’s only 1 mesmer in EU top tier, so Is that enough to say mesmer is underwhelming in pvp?

Yes, that is enough.

A lot of us mesmers here play competitively in PvP.

Show me a single mesmer (except Helseth) who is successful at WTS level.

Again that guy Robert has made a lot of better changes for mesmers and still you people are not contented?

I have no clue. Tell that to the person who complained that all the changes are PvP focused.

I would take the changes robert made any day than the state we had before.

From my take (please tell me if I’m wrong here), Robert was also responsible for the old state.

Teutos.8620:

StickerHappy.8052:

Mesmer underwhelming in pvp? Man seriously cant get enough of qqs.

Zenith.7301:

lol only thieves hardcounter mesmers. Mesmer takes a crap on everything else, if thief didn’t exist mesmer would be meta in spvp and for roaming/dueling mesmer is more than fine.

You are both totally right, every top team plays with a mesmer… oh wait… last go4cups there was only 1 mesmer on EU -> Helseth
Even Misha changed to Offguard, because Mesmer is not strong enough.

……because thief pushes them out. Apparently that makes the mesmer a terrible pvp class when the obvious answer is to nerf thieves instead.

Teutos.8620:

StickerHappy.8052:

So where are you getting that Mesmer is underwhelming in PvP?

In the past there where enough top mesmer, who loved to play their profession. Please tell me why they have all changed. I can tell you -> their team runs better with another profession, so they switched.

So there’s only 1 mesmer in EU top tier, so Is that enough to say mesmer is underwhelming in pvp?

Yes, that is enough.

A lot of us mesmers here play competitively in PvP.

Show me a single mesmer (except Helseth) who is successful at WTS level.

Again that guy Robert has made a lot of better changes for mesmers and still you people are not contented?

I have no clue. Tell that to the person who complained that all the changes are PvP focused.

I would take the changes robert made any day than the state we had before.

From my take (please tell me if I’m wrong here), Robert was also responsible for the old state.

From all your statements, basing it from 1 mesmer, this is a player based issue. So now Helseth dictates your POV in the mesmer scene? LOL.

Why did they change? Because they wanted to? Now Tell me why didnt helseth change his class?

Zenith.7301:

Teutos.8620:

StickerHappy.8052:

Mesmer underwhelming in pvp? Man seriously cant get enough of qqs.

Zenith.7301:

lol only thieves hardcounter mesmers. Mesmer takes a crap on everything else, if thief didn’t exist mesmer would be meta in spvp and for roaming/dueling mesmer is more than fine.

You are both totally right, every top team plays with a mesmer… oh wait… last go4cups there was only 1 mesmer on EU -> Helseth
Even Misha changed to Offguard, because Mesmer is not strong enough.

……because thief pushes them out. Apparently that makes the mesmer a terrible pvp class when the obvious answer is to nerf thieves instead.

Thief pushes them out? This statement is ill misinformed and only half true. Thieves hardcounters ZERK Mesmers, not ALL

They do good against most Zerk Classes for that matter, except medi guard.

Not having a new Mainhand is very disappointing, we really needed it as we have the best set of offhands but no reasonable person would take Scepter – maybe they’ll update Scepter ^^

However the Chronomancer is a really cool and fun sounding spec, very excited for it and I think you’ll understand when you play it that there is a lot more mechanically going on than first you see.

Thief does hard counter Mesmer but it is what it is. Anyway chrono looks amazing, but I am too annoyed that we just got an offhand shield. I feel we should get a new main hand as well. Oh well

1. Mesmers do have a lack of mainhand weapons. They have 2, 1 “damage” and 1 condi, and I feel they could do with 1 more however it should be folded into baseline Mesmer.

2. A lot of mesmer traits (in the revamp) do seem PvP focused, sure there’s some use in PvE for some of them but it feels like the old necro now where you’re choosing what you can from a bad set.

And before someone mentions that 8s stacking ferocity boost on using mantras, you will spend half your time charging the blooming things which will probably be a net loss. I know, high skill cap and all but that doesn’t mean anything if other classes do more, for less, easier. Emphasis on the more glares at guardians.

I think for me it put the final nail in the coffin of my PvE Mesmer when they said they wanted mesmers to shatter in PvE. Without a huge rebalance of the way mesmers do damage I do not see this as viable without handing Helseth lighting bolts and calling him Zeus.

I appreciate the hard work put in on the Mesmer and the chronomancer by Robert but I think it’s just going too PvP orientated which is killing the class for me. Why should I play my Mesmer when it’s doing half the damage of my guard (both zerk) because phantasms die and offers less utility as guards get team wide aegis, condi cleanse, healing, protection and projectile mitigation as well as doing better damage?

Why should I play my mesmer in high fractals when my engineer strips defiance better, are heals, and condo cleanses at little to no cost to damage and, once again does more damage.

Even ranger is more use (played well and not longbow camping) as they provide long lasting water fields, a range of boons based on pets, team support and projectile mitigation at little cost to dps, which, yep is more than mesmers on average.

StickerHappy.8052:

Teutos.8620:

StickerHappy.8052:

Do you play weekly cups? High tier pvp? ToL?

No, I don’t. Since I can’t see my MMR, hard to tell at which level I’m playing.
Still don’t get your point. I am not good enough to participate in the WTS, but I also don’t have a problem playing mesmer in normal ranked pvp.

Still, every (except one) top mesmer switched away from mesmer to be more effective in the WTS. Do you know any facts, that I don’t know?

Just telling you, that the argument, that Robert is focused on pvp is wrong, otherwise the profession would not be in it’s current state (= not played at the WTS-tier).

So where are you getting that Mesmer is underwhelming in PvP?

Are other people’s experience with mesmer a reflection of yours? So there’s only 1 mesmer in EU top tier, so Is that enough to say mesmer is underwhelming in pvp?

A lot of us mesmers here play competitively in PvP.

Again that guy Robert has made a lot of better changes for mesmers and still you people are not contented?

I would take the changes robert made any day than the state we had before.

And this is how mediocrity is born.

OP here;
I feel some people took this thread in the wrong direction. I didn’t want to talk about the traits. The builds, specifically in terms of traits, will always change. What you do and don’t do behinds the scenes is a whole different thing. As a matter of fact I actually like the traits given to the Chronomancer, I feel they are good in terms of functionality and application.

The issue I’m having and would like to discuss is directly with the skills themselves. When I play my mesmer I feel very limited in what I can use effectively in pve. Specially in high difficulty settings, like high level Fractals. For instance, mesmers lack AoE; they barely have any right now. That was addressed (sorta) with the wells, but they are all utilities. When it comes to a 1v1 sort of setting I find that I can use all my weapons effectively. However when we get in larger groups, whether I’m alone or with others, my weapon choices are drastically reduced. I had hopes that the expansion would give some new skills not only to refresh my game play by adding some variety, but also to address the fact that we’re incredibly dependent on our shatters, and in PVE they are not reliable. Like apharma.3741 mention, in many situations, taking the a mesmer into battle is not even worth it because other professions do a much better job a damage and support.
Here I am looking at the reaper and dragon hunter with their skills (many of which hit multiple targets) and I’m just thinking wtf? I don’t mean to say that the the skills for the shield are bad, but we deserve to have the rest of our bars filled, and the rest of out issues addressed.

Here’s the rub, IMO:
(Certain of-) us are rather expecting (nigh-)perfection when all that’s changed in the large-scale is we got one newish Dev who is working to upgrade (at the very least) both Mesmer and Necro’s glaring gameplay issues.

• How much do you honestly think one guy can pull off, seriously? Fact is, this dude’s pulled more to better both classes in a short period of time, than has been seen done in literal years.
• Do I think more needs looked at? Hell, yes! (For instance, we absolutely need more -preferably baseline- mainhands.) But it’s kinda messed up to sit and act like Mesmers got massively shafted, here. Especially when we’ve only seen 3 Specializations.

Where does it says that only mesmer will get one-handed weapon? I kind of expect warrior to get a one-handed weapon, unless they get to play martial art staff like Gandalf. Having shortbow while already possess longbow is also kind of redundant for warrior, especially when the two weapons share the same skin in many sets.

Anyway back to mesmer in PvE. I love to play as mesmer, but mesmer really don’t have much options in high end PvE, because our class characteristic is bound to illusions, duelist etc. Perhaps slow can be a way to mitigate fractal damage past defiances but our AoE offense will always be limited.

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

Where does it says that only mesmer will get one-handed weapon? I kind of expect warrior to get a one-handed weapon, unless they get to play martial art staff like Gandalf. Having shortbow while already possess longbow is also kind of redundant for warrior, especially when the two weapons share the same skin in many sets.

Anyway back to mesmer in PvE. I love to play as mesmer, but mesmer really don’t have much options in high end PvE, because our class characteristic is bound to illusions, duelist etc. Perhaps slow can be a way to mitigate fractal damage past defiances but our AoE offense will always be limited.

Tempest has more or less been confirmed to be getting a sword. There are only so many two-handed weapons to go around, so each class getting a 2h is impossible. Unless Warriors are getting a scepter or pistol they’re getting an offhand.

I think a staff, monk type specialization for warrior is pretty likely. A martial artist.

idk yet how chrono will play out in pve but i think having non ai aoe with wells etc is defenitely a step in the right direction. im not sure that a new weapon would change the pve mes viability. pve and wvw zerg is a little similar. in both cases ai does not much for u.

a new main hand would not help u much in pve nor would it in wvw. the wells a re non ai which is great and they are aoe too. so lets see how the new chrono skills will play out in pve. there are new traits that could also help your pve play. i think whith whoever at anet is helping with the class balance and new designs is definitely making a good effort and im sure step by step mes will get back into the pve meta.

The best thing Mesmer could have gotten with specialisation would have been a control oriented mainhand, it would have rounded off a Mesmer’s weapon options quite nicely, since the offhands they currently have can multirole between direct damage, condi and control very well.

I do like the look of the shield skills, it looks like a fun weapon and Id rather not bash it, but its so entirely unnecessary and unneeded in the Mesmer’s repertoire.

Shield main hand weapon. Duel shield class ftw.

Probably best to see how it all plays out. It only takes one decent skill to completely change the way a class can be played.

StickerHappy.8052:

From all your statements, basing it from 1 mesmer, this is a player based issue.

Why did they change? Because they wanted to?

Do you interpret something into my posts, or do you just have a problem understanding what I’m saying? If that’s the case, I can try to repeat myself with other words, since English is not my first language.

My statements are based on the representation of mesmers in the wts-tier. Not on someones personal opinion about mesmer. Not talking about why that’s the case (there have already been multiple threads about it).

The longtime mesmer players changed, because with another profession, they are much more successful in the wts-tier. Playing a different profession enables them to maybe even win the wts. This is a fact, not a personal opinion.

So now Helseth dictates your POV in the mesmer scene? LOL. Now Tell me why didnt helseth change his class?

He is the only positive example which I mentioned. He is the exception confirming the rule. He didn’t change, because he is too arrogant. He has the urge to show everyone, that he is the best and therefore he sticks with mesmer regardless of crippling his team.

Feel free to ask around yourself.

Zenith.7301:

I think a staff, monk type specialization for warrior is pretty likely. A martial artist.

I think you don’t read into the specialization news. Because that has a 0% chance of occurring. Staff went to Ranger

TyPin.9860:

It is a broken logic to deduce the state of a class from top tier PvP, when the majority of players don’t play top tier PvP. We have a certain “meta”, this is normal. But having a certain “meta” does neither mean that everyone plays the most effective nor that this is the only “meta” possible.

Does Mesmer have issues in PvP? Yes! Does that mean the class is garbage in PvP? Certainly not. Also we do not know yet, how the meta will develop in HoT.

I think this post needs to be emphasized again. Because everyone keeps reading Sticker Happy’s posts and quoting them when this one is far more concise and relevant.

Daniel Handler.4816:

TyPin.9860:

It is a broken logic to deduce the state of a class from top tier PvP, when the majority of players don’t play top tier PvP. We have a certain “meta”, this is normal. But having a certain “meta” does neither mean that everyone plays the most effective nor that this is the only “meta” possible.

Does Mesmer have issues in PvP? Yes! Does that mean the class is garbage in PvP? Certainly not. Also we do not know yet, how the meta will develop in HoT.

I think this post needs to be emphasized again. Because everyone keeps reading Sticker Happy’s posts and quoting them when this one is far more concise and relevant.

You’re a meanie Kent! but you do notice we mean the same thing but mine are quoted for more aggressive responses? Haha. I’m just spilling the bitter tea pill.

SkinnyT.5382:

OP here;
I feel some people took this thread in the wrong direction. I didn’t want to talk about the traits. The builds, specifically in terms of traits, will always change. What you do and don’t do behinds the scenes is a whole different thing. As a matter of fact I actually like the traits given to the Chronomancer, I feel they are good in terms of functionality and application.

The issue I’m having and would like to discuss is directly with the skills themselves. When I play my mesmer I feel very limited in what I can use effectively in pve. Specially in high difficulty settings, like high level Fractals. For instance, mesmers lack AoE; they barely have any right now. That was addressed (sorta) with the wells, but they are all utilities. When it comes to a 1v1 sort of setting I find that I can use all my weapons effectively. However when we get in larger groups, whether I’m alone or with others, my weapon choices are drastically reduced. I had hopes that the expansion would give some new skills not only to refresh my game play by adding some variety, but also to address the fact that we’re incredibly dependent on our shatters, and in PVE they are not reliable. Like apharma.3741 mention, in many situations, taking the a mesmer into battle is not even worth it because other professions do a much better job a damage and support.
Here I am looking at the reaper and dragon hunter with their skills (many of which hit multiple targets) and I’m just thinking wtf? I don’t mean to say that the the skills for the shield are bad, but we deserve to have the rest of our bars filled, and the rest of out issues addressed.

We got 2.5 skills (echo of memory is 1.5 skill). Adding in the rift means we got 5 skills.

People do seem to be being weenies about your post. I agree that rather than drastically change our situation, the spec seems to have been a slight buff to some areas of weakness without really changing the situation, and been a large buff to what mesmer is already good at. I am fine with this, as different classes will excel at different things. But I hear what you are saying, and I kind of think that you were expecting a little much if being “dependent on our shatters” is a problem for you. They never said there were going to completely remake the class from the ground up, which is kind of the only way to address our dependence on shatters/phantasms. I hear what you are saying, but far from a “back hand compliment” I think the spec shows someone was actually trying to listen to a big part of the player base and took mesmer a little toward what it was in GW1. This mostly a pvp perspective, of course. The mesmer in HoT seems like it will be a better version of what it is now, but largely still with the same overall weaknesses/strengths in the meta.