Guild Wars 2

It seems to me one of my biggest weakness is facing another mesmer, either in sPvP or WvW.

I main Staff, and the pew pew from GS beam really hurts me, even with Chaos Armor. They keep at distance greater than 600 so I don’t get the additional bounce off Staff#1 , and my dmg output is halved. By the time I do get enough conditions going on the opponent to force him Blink/Heal/Stealth, I’ve already burned 1 or 2 of those utilities myself and HP lower than his.

So, Staff Mesmers, how do you counter and beat the GS pew pew?

get up close and personal

Bearlin.7238:

get up close and personal

That’s kind of the problem, with Staff being defense oriented, getting up and close plays against that. Also, GS#4 and #5 always set me back. So, like I said, by the time I do get close enough and conditions going, he is only a blink and GS#5 away from resetting the fight distance.

Staff actually gets considerably better the closer you are to the enemy.

WoC bounces faster, you can get yourself and your opponent in Chaos Storm, and Phase Shift means you can get away quickly at a moment’s notice when/if you need to.

Also important to consider is that you don’t get the bounce from WoC if you are more than 600 units away because of how the bouncing works.

So, yeah, get up on top of a GS Mesmer and do your best to stay close, as you get better and he gets worse.

in wvw, you use staff as a backup weapon most of the time, and with most builds. you basically switch to it for the oh kitten chaos storm/armor or to interrupt a res.

in spvp, staff is great, since it’s all control point based, its fine if they shoot you from range, they’re not on the point and you are. just take advantage of los.

Ur doomed GS phantasm mesmer is the best build mesmers got.

Unless you’re running a condition damage build, staff should be a very definite secondary defensive set. If you are trying to duel someone just sitting in staff without running a cd build, you’re going to have problems.

Generally, you want to only switch to staff when you need the defensive or mobility utility that it provides. Until then, stay with sword/x, close your distance, and pressure the gs Mesmer.

I find fighting mesmers is all about control. He who controls the fight, wins.

Keep that in your head. Fighting a GS mesmer? get up in his face and start blowing the crap out of him, put him on the defensive.

Fight starts stalemting out? switch tactics, try playing like a phantasm mesmer, or like a shatter mesmer, vica-versa

Rinzler.8072:

I find fighting mesmers is all about control. He who controls the fight, wins.

Keep that in your head. Fighting a GS mesmer? get up in his face and start blowing the crap out of him, put him on the defensive.

Fight starts stalemting out? switch tactics, try playing like a phantasm mesmer, or like a shatter mesmer, vica-versa

This is pretty much how I deal with everyone lol. Just get up in their face and dance around them so they have to keep turning around to face you to attack.

I’m guessing you’re unconsciously putting distance because you’re holding a staff. Get up close and personal is the right answer. GS#5 shouldn’t be an excuse; the CD on that skill is looooong.

Pretend inferiority and encourage his arrogance.

Govern terrain and choose your battlefield.

Or to put it simply, if you’re unable to control your fight with a GS mesmer by staying in his face, just flat out do not engage a GS mesmer. Fall back to a battleground of your choosing. Look for some areas with small confined spaces, or LoS breakers. Bank on your enemies arrogance to follow you, then trap him in those close quarters. If he doesn’t follow, you’ve already won.

“The supreme art of war is to subdue your enemy without fighting”

This may seem obvious but, are you maintaining three Staff Clones (or maybe a Duelist) on your opponent? Winds of Chaos is a rather poor condition attack even with Illusionary Elasticity, you really do need Illusions to help keep your opponent Burning/Bleeding.

I find that Blinking right into your opponent’s face (or preferably behind them) can often surprise them, especially if you use Far-Reaching Manipulations. You could also use the Sword as your other set to close the distance with Illusionary Leap.

Thanks for the tips guys.

I guess my first post was a bit unclear. I do want to be very much in his face fighting, but the other Mesmer knows what I’m thinking and is preventing me to get close.

I’ve fought terrible mesmers that get carelessly burned or bled to death. But it seems at a n evenly matched skill, GS has the advantage. After 16s and two izerkers are up, it’s extremely difficult for me to close distance.

I feel a bit like what Rose Biddle said, just have to walk away from a knowledgeable GS Mesmer. I can nullify his shatters, I can read through his decoy, I can prolong the fight so my conditions can do their job. But so can he. I blink to close, he blinks to distance, i appear from stealth, he goes into stealth. If I can’t do the one thing I really want – to be up close, then the battle appears already half lost.

This GW2 game is balance. Playstyle affects so much in fight.

GS Mesmer know… Staff Mesmer gonna come to melee and unleash 4x Mind Wrack damage. While Staff Mesmer know too.. GS Mesmer don’t want to take that 4x Mind Wrack and keep the range.

Except if both of them are Shatter build. Maybe they will hug each other on Melee range.

Eliesume.1687:

Thanks for the tips guys.

I guess my first post was a bit unclear. I do want to be very much in his face fighting, but the other Mesmer knows what I’m thinking and is preventing me to get close.

I’ve fought terrible mesmers that get carelessly burned or bled to death. But it seems at a n evenly matched skill, GS has the advantage. After 16s and two izerkers are up, it’s extremely difficult for me to close distance.

I feel a bit like what Rose Biddle said, just have to walk away from a knowledgeable GS Mesmer. I can nullify his shatters, I can read through his decoy, I can prolong the fight so my conditions can do their job. But so can he. I blink to close, he blinks to distance, i appear from stealth, he goes into stealth. If I can’t do the one thing I really want – to be up close, then the battle appears already half lost.

Stop using the staff as a gap closing weapon, because it doesn’t function that way. From what you said, you’re running a condition build, which is fine, but you still can’t gap close with the staff. You gap close with mainhand sword, and once you get there, feel free to switch back to staff.

I must be missing something – what’s your second weapon set?

You can make use of ileap, stealth, focus pull, (traited) duelist, blocks, blink, daze…. there are loads of ways, each situational and varying with build. GS #5 has a long cooldown, and you should have access to enough CC and movement abilities to get in close, fast. If not, then it is best to swap around some skills/traits.

Have you tried using domination V – crippling dissipation? With MH sword, all your clones will run up to your opponent and provide free cripple on death.

You could even use a GS yourself as a second set!

If you’re intent on staying in staff, drop target and use reverse phase retreat to close a little distance.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Stop using the staff as a gap closing weapon, because it doesn’t function that way. From what you said, you’re running a condition build, which is fine, but you still can’t gap close with the staff. You gap close with mainhand sword, and once you get there, feel free to switch back to staff.

… I frequently use staff 2 to close gaps. Its amazing.

Staff cant be your only weapon, it sounds like GS isn’t your second, so try sword/focus and use the pull to MAKE him come up close, then sword 3 can immobilize him.

I think people are not getting in their imaginary battles that you are not fighting some dumb NPC… The opponent has a counter tool for anything you can throw at him and even if you let’s say do close that gap, can you actually keep that gap closed for more than a couple of moments? And then is that gap closing will actually really work in your favor to begin with?

The answer is not really.

With condition spec your staff clones are a good source of damage. So break line of sight, even get out of range and let your staff clones beat on him. Decoy when you need to sneak up on him and chaos armour yourself and him.
If your using sword as other set then don’t be afraid to waste a frenzy for the invulnarability even when he’s stood at range. Torch is a great offhand for sneaking up and getting burn on him too.

Gaidax.7835:

I think people are not getting in their imaginary battles that you are not fighting some dumb NPC… The opponent has a counter tool for anything you can throw at him and even if you let’s say do close that gap, can you actually keep that gap closed for more than a couple of moments? And then is that gap closing will actually really work in your favor to begin with?

The answer is not really.

Same applies to you as your opponent – neither are npcs.
Just as your opponent can counter what you do, so you can do the same to them – all swings and roundabouts, and there are enough skills/traits/abilities to choose from to counter each other (taking into account player skill).

If they are playing a phantasm spec and staying at medium-long range with the GS (with something like the iduelist unloading on you), then yeah it’s tough…

Should have recorded a good example last night. Zerg had run off to a camp. I stopped to cap a sentry point, the one east of garrison, south of NE camp. I saw an enemy running up the road. Turned out to be a GS mes. Well before they could engage I turned and ran the other way, turning up the hill and obscuring LoS with the cliff. When they came to the bottom of the cliff I turned back around so they were hugged tightly in against the cliff. Then with their back to the wall I opened up on them. Simple.

I controlled the entire direction of the fight by choosing where and when it was going happen. He did blink out to run north soon after, but since he had to blink past me, my blink outranged his. I could stick to glue like him from that point on.

Blanket mesmer vs. Mesmer tips:

Shatter for distortion before anything else. Save it for when you see their clones coming.

Target their phantasms when you summon yours. They will blow them up and move on to the player.

Summon your clones and los the other guy. Once you ‘tag’ the guy new clones will just go at him.

If you use mass invis use it on approach to give yourself the initial strike (for you either a mind wrack or cry of ffrustration, but only if you have the capability to restock your clones).

djtool.8372:

Target their phantasms when you summon yours. They will blow them up and move on to the player

This is false. If you target the phantasms when you summon yours, your phantasms will simply dissipate once their target is destroyed, just like every other clone or phantasm works.

A pure staff mesmer is a melee – midrange build, and just has to get like all the dissipation stuff and of course deceptive evasion.

Just dodge around the target, keep a healthy distance if it is a melee, and stack conditions.
Thankfully you are a mesmer, and get some really nice OP traits, like AoE cripple whenever a clone dies, which just applies cripple. You cannot even evade the cripple. You can dodge, yet you get crippled.
If it is a shatter mesmer, you will survive because Phase Retreat is on kitten cooldown.
If it is a phantasm mesmer you will win because he will have near to 0 condi remove, and you will outtank his damage with your toughness and dodge/BF.

Basically you will phase retreat out of almost any dangerous 1v1 situation. If all stars align and your phase retreat is on cooldown, you will just use F4.
The sword clones are ok at stacking bleeding, especially when you replace them (replacing = dying = all the dissipation stuff triggers). The vul stacks up quite nice, and allows for like 1.5-2k BF, which isn’t alot. With staff clones you will maintain like 8-10 stacks of might most of the time, and have a 100% fury and vigor uptime (67% crit in sPvP mode).
For hotjoins you can also swap out portal and illusion of life. Nobody is gonna use this anyway.

Here is that staff condi build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAW8alwzyqnTzpGaNJiJFBHyh+w1RqQpVmBvdhA-TsAAzCpIgR5jzHDMyZszMWYVx+DA

It is way better than for example a condi necro, because there is basically no way to counter cleanse your conditions (yes it kills bunker guardians and bunker eles).

Don’t know what the trouble is, I don’t lose to GS main mesmers. I primarily run a condition build and the worst case scenario I end up in is basically a stalemate (or at least a fight that lasts 20+ minutes).

The thing you need to keep in mind is using your staff movements to your greatest advantage. Blink on the other side, roll and use phase retreat causing a nice gap with 2 clones pounding him with conditions plus making him try to track you. Use decoy to keep him wondering where you are. Drop chaos storm at yours and his feet to buff yourself and hurt him. Above all, utilize both weapon sets constantly. By staying in just your staff set, you are wasting 5 skills you can have at your disposal. Bring a sword/pistol for the magic bullet stun, iDuelist to stack bleeding, leap to immobilize. Try focus to pull your foe around, drop an iWarden on him with feedback to give him more confusion and bleed if he stays near it. Torch is a great condition weapon as you have a blast finisher, cause burning plus have stealth to make him lose targeting on you as well as have his illusions stop hitting you temporarily.

I tell people constantly. The real key to getting better is knowing what your weaknesses are and adapting. Learning to deal with those problem areas when they arise allows you to improve the most. If you are having trouble getting close when you want to, adjust your secondary weapon set or a utility to help with that.

One last piece of advice, as Ross Biddle stated. Control the situation which can include doing a quick weapon swap prior to engaging to help you out.

As a GS + S/S Mesmer I mainly lose to Staff Mesmers! some great tips for both sides in this thread, thanks!

i mainly dont lose staff mesmer, they just dont have to much time stuck all condition, allways try go away. never atack mesmer under chaos armor, and just dodge dodge. if i summoned phantom, i just run aroud try avoid enemy spels. and let phantasm do they job.

MarkusParkus.8467:

As a GS + S/S Mesmer I mainly lose to Staff Mesmers! some great tips for both sides in this thread, thanks!

okay …

drongas.4189:

i mainly dont lose staff mesmer, they just dont have to much time stuck all condition, allways try go away. never atack mesmer under chaos armor, and just dodge dodge. if i summoned phantom, i just run aroud try avoid enemy spels. and let phantasm do they job.

O’really ~ guess there’s only one way to find out.

MarkusParkus vs. drongas . Duel…. FIGHT !

Eliesume.1687:

MarkusParkus.8467:

As a GS + S/S Mesmer I mainly lose to Staff Mesmers! some great tips for both sides in this thread, thanks!

okay …

drongas.4189:

i mainly dont lose staff mesmer, they just dont have to much time stuck all condition, allways try go away. never atack mesmer under chaos armor, and just dodge dodge. if i summoned phantom, i just run aroud try avoid enemy spels. and let phantasm do they job.

O’really ~ guess there’s only one way to find out.

MarkusParkus vs. drongas . Duel…. FIGHT !

Np. soon after patch our servers can meet eachover. so we can duel ofc

Most GS mesmers would start off by attacking from a distance, which means that they would be off-point.

1. Use this time to get out of their line of sight and prevent them from summoning iBerserker.
2. If you can’t do number 1, summon clones and iWarlock, pop Chaos Armor
3. Proceed to close gap with sword and pressure them… shatter if you must
4. If they use GS 5, close the gap again with blink or sword

Basically, keeping close to them will most likely force them to use sword for melee combat. Once this happens, I normally switch to staff to negate the damage they might do with the sword while at the same time putting conditions faster

Bearlin.7238:

1. Use this time to get out of their line of sight and prevent them from summoning iBerserker.

Aka fight in Bridge or Forest. But don’t worry there’s no Forest on Flipping objective in WVW. GS upperhand on Open field is good

2. If you can’t do number 1, summon clones and iWarlock, pop Chaos Armor

Steal the Prot Boon for 5sec!!

3. Proceed to close gap with sword and pressure them… shatter if you must

GS mes will Blink when u do Sword #2 or simply.. DOdge..

4. If they use GS 5, close the gap again with blink or sword

If this happened after point 3 and ur Sword #2 and Sword #3 are on CD. GS Mesmer simply will change into Sword and give u Sword #3 and Sword #2.

The hardest Staff Mesmer is GC Build with “Insane” F4 from “Recharge All Shatter on 50% HP” On 1st 10sec of the fight the pressure of this STaff Mesmer will be very insane since They will Stealth a lot, and when they are not on Stealth they will spam F4. Leaving GS Mesmer on hard position coz GS mes can;t regenerate any clones or Phantasm.

drongas.4189:

Eliesume.1687:

MarkusParkus.8467:

As a GS + S/S Mesmer I mainly lose to Staff Mesmers! some great tips for both sides in this thread, thanks!

okay …

drongas.4189:

i mainly dont lose staff mesmer, they just dont have to much time stuck all condition, allways try go away. never atack mesmer under chaos armor, and just dodge dodge. if i summoned phantom, i just run aroud try avoid enemy spels. and let phantasm do they job.

O’really ~ guess there’s only one way to find out.

MarkusParkus vs. drongas . Duel…. FIGHT !

Np. soon after patch our servers can meet eachover. so we can duel ofc

Gunnar’s vs Gandara would certainly be an interesting match! (stompfest) but I’ll look forward to it if we are matched up

MarkusParkus.8467:

drongas.4189:

Eliesume.1687:

MarkusParkus.8467:

As a GS + S/S Mesmer I mainly lose to Staff Mesmers! some great tips for both sides in this thread, thanks!

okay …

drongas.4189:

i mainly dont lose staff mesmer, they just dont have to much time stuck all condition, allways try go away. never atack mesmer under chaos armor, and just dodge dodge. if i summoned phantom, i just run aroud try avoid enemy spels. and let phantasm do they job.

O’really ~ guess there’s only one way to find out.

MarkusParkus vs. drongas . Duel…. FIGHT !

Np. soon after patch our servers can meet eachover. so we can duel ofc

Gunnar’s vs Gandara would certainly be an interesting match! (stompfest) but I’ll look forward to it if we are matched up

what kind battle style ur server use? i hope not tower bunkers/blob? gandara preffer 4-5 small group open field fight ninja style

and i hope new ranking system be more flexible

I run Staff + Sword/Torch, 20/20/0/0/30 atm. Mix of knight, cavalier and zerker, rabid staff and zerker s/t.
I think mesmer vs. mesmer fights are pretty fun, although they can be very long ones.

Couple things that I’ve learned:
-The fights are mostly about cooldowns, and how each manages them. Try to force the other guy to use more defensive CDs than you.
-Counter your opponent’s stealth with your own.
-iLeap → BF+Shatter doesn’t usually work. Use iLeap to bait BF/Distortion/Blink, and try leap+BF+Shatter when you think he has to eat it.
-Sword autoattack is great, and sword clones are easier to shatter.
-Use Blink, BF or Phase Retreat+dodge to clones to counter his leap+bf+shatter.

I personally don’t have much trouble beating GS mesmers. iZerker is pretty easy to dodge, and they lack the survivability of staff.

GS mesmer is all the rage when you can get a better build – a dumb player could perfect GS build.

I can usually take down a GS mesmer with a staff if im paying attention- especially since GS mesmers tend to have little to no toughness and you can take her out with a few illusions and shatter along with Chaos storm and – blink around- its not that bad since they will tend to try to keep you away from them and cant deal with up close- unless she have a sword as second hand.

Im a berserker GS/sword//focus Mesmer and in wvw you know what I do when I seen any Mesmer that isn’t a green arrow?

I RUN to zerg or nearest tower lol.

And yes if someone gets in my face I die 7 times out of 10. Because we like to fight at range. We switch to sword when we feel confident we can win/already won the fight and move in for the kill. The 3 out of 10 times I do win is because I kill them with warden/swap/blurred frenzy or simply scare them out of melee with said combo.

This might sound strange but I find Sword Focus + staff to be a extrelmy good counter to GS. The knockdown + 6 sec cripple let me stay on target and staff let me use hes clones to phase retreat towards enemy. Tbh any pet class has a disadvantage vs staff as you with a little practice can blink towards him by mark a pet and then remark enemy.

/Osicat