Guild Wars 2

Greetings everyone. Lately I’ve been wondering how much % damage I do and how much my phantasms. Was it more worth to trait for +32.25% phantasm damage and +25% attack speed or better +3% damage per Illusion and +4% damage per Mantra for myself?

(Btw I know different boni are multiplicative but is the calculation for +3% and +4% per I/M multiplicative too? So it would it be +9% and +16% or +9.3% and +17%? btt:)

Best dps in general: mh sword aa in one minute:
24 x (650 + 650 + 1200) = 60’000

• 60% crit chance
• 100% crit damage
  = 114’000 /min
  = 1’900 DpS
  (no mantra or illusion bonus, nor might)

iSwordsman:
13 × 2100 = 27’300

• 80% crit chance
• 100% crit damage
  = 60’060 /min
  = 1’001 DpS
  (no bonus damage or attack speed, nor might on me)

We actually can keep up 2 phantasms all the time and the trait boni are much better for phantasms than for ourselves. They would benefit from a +65.3% damage increase if everything is traited, while we stay at +27.8%. So it would be:

1 Mesmer:

• 1 Target(s): 1’900 | 2’428
• 2 Target(s): 3’800 | 4’856
• 3 Target(s): 5’700 | 7’284

iSwordsman:

• 1 Phantasm: 1’001 | 1’655
• 2 Phantasm: 2’002 | 3’309
• 3 Phantasm: 3’003 | 4’964

It’s a bit short minded I know, but at single targets we get outdamaged by far by our phantasms. Against multiple targets we win, aslong we don’t use iWardens or iZerkers I guess. Well the warden is known for its poor dps however it requires more testings to show this. Maybe (colesy will hate me for this sentence now) if full traited for phantasms the bonus damage of the iZerker is higher against many targets than the loss of DpS from the basic attack of the sword compared to the aa of the GS.

All in all I feel like the damage in practice will be 50:50, wich means it’s more worth taking for example 25 in inspiration than 10 in illusions or 30 in duelling to increase the own damage by a few %. But as allways – everything is situational. But what do you think? Did I miss something important?

greetings

The problem is that phantasms are unreliable and you need 14 seconds minimum to get three out. Stacking personal damage modifiers with compounding power and empowering mantras is far more reliable since players, well competent ones, will have longer dps uptime and three illusions is easy with deceptive evasion if you slot it in. Not saying I really have a strong opinion for either side, but both have merits. Remember that damage modifiers make our reflects stronger too.

How will damage modifiers affect the wardens reflection? And I see that 2 phantasms are already enough to overwhelm the mesmers single target damage. Also – while casting something we got death time, didn’t calculate that either. And dodge etc. It’s pretty even isn’kitten

As cosley mentioned, your reflects are based off of your modifiers. 1.04^3 × 1.03^3 × 1.1 = 35% increase in your stabbing and reflect damage. The extra crit dmg and precision helps too. That math is only with a potion of slaying (10%). If you toss a sigil of night/slaying/runes… it gets up to 80% more stabbing/reflects. The 100% more damage from stacking in melee for group buffs also does not translate to 100% more phantasm damage. It would be closer to 70% more phantasm damage.

Ideal situations, your sword auto math will end up being buffed 260%. The phantasm damage by ~70%. Reflect damage will be uped by ~100%. In not ideal situations, your math would be much closer to reality but I would still favor steady sword auto attack to GS phantasm aoe as the sword auto is much more reliable and stacks in mele better.

Supposedly the warden reflects are based off of phantasm damage increases as well although I have never tested this myself. They should not be affected by the 80% I mentioned above for reflecting though. So feedback buffed like crazy is still better for fights like lupi.

Ok now you have to help me, I really lost you.

The extra crit dmg and precision helps too.

What are you talking about? o.O Wich extra stuff?

Sigil of night/slaying/runes…

There are Mesmers that use those? Since battle gives overall 8%~ and of course bloodlust. But that’s just my personal opinion.

it gets up to 80% more stabbing/reflects

I reeeeeeally doubt that. Give me the math on this. 80% Is pretty heavy.

The 100% more damage from stacking in melee for group buffs also does not translate to 100% more phantasm damage. It would be closer to 70% more phantasm damage.

Wat? o.O what 100% more damage from melee? What buffs?

Ideal situations, your sword auto math will end up being buffed 260%. The phantasm damage by ~70%. Reflect damage will be uped by ~100%

? @_@’’

So a lot of what I was talking about where super optimized conditions with some quick math before class started. I’ll try to spell more stuff out.

So 25 might stacks is 875 power/condi dmg. Compared to ~2000 power that most mesmers run with and some bonus bleed damage from sharper images, that can be about 40-50% increase just from might stacks. Mesmers also have a hard time with fury: 20% more chance to do about 160% bonus damage (crit dmg has a base of 50% bonus). Then add banners for more power/crit chance/crit dmg. All of this adds up to about 100% more damage. Also could factor in frost spirit/spotter/empower although those aren’t nearly as common.

With that in mind, these don’t require melee stacking, just stacking with your team. However, in practice I have rarely seen groups stack all those buffs at range. The buffs have 600 range, usually require blast finishers centered on the enemies and most people that play at range will spread out because stacking is “dangerous.”

Mantra: 1.04^3 (It could be 4 but usually you bring at least feedback) 1.03^3 for 3 illusions. Sigil of night, runes of scholar and sigil/potion of slaying are all 1.1 coefficients. All of these multipliers are multiplicative so…
1.04^3 × 1.03^3 × 1.1^4 = 1.8 multiplier. If you are doing 100% more damage and then having that further multiplied by 1.8, 1.8 × 2 = 3.6 or 260% bonus damage.

Reflects will be boosted by the 1.8 multiplier and also the fury so I estimated about 100% more. Phantasms will only be affected by raw stats like might but not the potions/sigils/fury (they already have it).

Personally, I have about half of those buffs in my bags. Potions for the common enemies for dungeons I usually run. I’ve also gotten a bit lazy after getting my second Bolt since I don’t feel like equipping any of my other swords. I also don’t bring the mantra trait since I tried it and hated using mantras. In practice, I’m probably at about 180% bonus damage in the groups I usually run with. I also run 0/20/0/25/25 since I often carry a few noob guildies and reflects help that a lot more than the ~20% more personal damage.

While these numbers may seem ridiculous, just look at a speed kill video of lupi for example. Under 20 seconds. Now compare that to your random pug. Is 300%-500% more damage really that far fetched? Keep in mind that ranged AA usually does 50-70% BASE damage of melee.

Mind to post a picture? Two bolts, thats my goal!

I love the mad king gloves. They have a perfect biker glove feel with them. If you want to see them in game, just whisper me. I’m on a US server.

Many thanks pal. I will look for those gloves now that I am focusing in cosmetics and so. unfortunatly i am on EU :’(

First of all – sorry for the late answer Had much to do this week. ^^

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

So 25 might stacks is 875 power/condi dmg. Compared to ~2000 power that most mesmers run with and some bonus bleed damage from sharper images, that can be about 40-50% increase just from might stacks.

• 875 malice is pretty much 100% increased bleeding damage (+ for phantasms).
• 875 bonus power increases the phantasm’s damage exactly the same % as the mesmer’s damage.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

Mesmers also have a hard time with fury: 20% more chance to do about 160% bonus damage (crit dmg has a base of 50% bonus). Then add banners for more power/crit chance/crit dmg. All of this adds up to about 100% more damage. Also could factor in frost spirit/spotter/empower although those aren’t nearly as common.

• 20% more crit chance is just for the mesmer yes, because phantasms already got it permanently (+ for mesmer compared to my calculations).
• The crits however are the same for the phantasms as for the mesmer (160% bonus damage) however, just more often due their perma fury.
• Banners: power affects phantasms too, precision too aswell crit damage … so no benefits for the mesmer compared to the phantasm.
• All of those adds are for the phantasm too … so? They still got better scalings.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

With that in mind, these don’t require melee stacking, just stacking with your team. However, in practice I have rarely seen groups stack all those buffs at range. The buffs have 600 range, usually require blast finishers centered on the enemies and most people that play at range will spread out because stacking is “dangerous.”

You stay melee, recive the buffs (as mentioned above) an transit them to the phantasms. So what do you wanna tell me with this part?? o.ô

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

Mantra: 1.04^3 (It could be 4 but usually you bring at least feedback) 1.03^3 for 3 illusions. Sigil of night, runes of scholar and sigil/potion of slaying are all 1.1 coefficients. All of these multipliers are multiplicative so…
1.04^3 × 1.03^3 × 1.1^4 = 1.8 multiplier. If you are doing 100% more damage and then having that further multiplied by 1.8, 1.8 × 2 = 3.6 or 260% bonus damage.

• Very optimistic. Mantras go on CD, you could make great use of Signet of Inspiration if you had space for it, Illusions die etc. Everything together could be a better investment if you let your personal damage go and trait for the phantasms. They get the +65.3% too, so the damage would be the same, but your utility increases a lot.
• Forget about the “100% more damage” – as I mentioned before. Its about the Phantasm vs Mesmer and not “how much can I pimp my Mesmer” :P It makes the final calculation of 260% bonus damage a bit silly.
• Sigils, runes and potions of slaying are indeed 3x 1.1. You mentioned 2x the sigil or did I miss something? However: Battle Sigils grant you 6 stacks might (share → face book … I MEAN SIGNET o.O) and add ~8% damage to you and the phants. Also Bloodlust. But yes you can switch the full stacked bloodlust with that 1.1 multiplicator. However, until then – and if you get downed – nope. It’s too situational.
• Same is for the runes. The best stats for you and your phantasms you get from the Ruby Orbs.
• Slaying pots are nice and sure something a phantasm will never benefit from. However I hate them since they make you even more squishy.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

Reflects will be boosted by the 1.8 multiplier and also the fury so I estimated about 100% more. Phantasms will only be affected by raw stats like might but not the potions/sigils/fury (they already have it).

This is the main + for the Mesmer. But when do you really need that boost? Lupicus … go on … I won’t trait for something such specific. It’s like to go for confusion and condition damage to defeat one specific boss :P imo

Greeez

Sigil of battle and inspiration are normally part of my kit. However, if my party has an elementalist, guardian, warrior and/or engineer that knows how to stack might, the signet/sigil aren’t worth it. It isn’t sustainable group support that other classes will bring. For a fractal run, I often hit 25 sigil stacks and manage to carry those to maw. For shorter dungeons, stacking sigils aren’t worth it.

The potions make you do 10% more base/reflect damage and take 10% less damage. That makes you tankier not squishier ^^. Let’s look at this a different way. Add 1.03^3 × 1.1^2 × 1.05(Trait+runes/potion+sigil of force: that seems rather reasonable to me) = 40% more base damage + 20% crit chance. How much damage did the phantasm lose in this scenario? Ruby orbs vs scholars is: -55 power, + 4% crit chance + 4% crit dmg. That’s rather negligible.

Where is that 63.5% increase for phantasms coming from? You factored fury into the base and phantasmal haste doesn’t affect the swordsman. It should only be 32%. Briefly looking at your math but with an easy 40% boost + fury in mind, it looks like the sword auto attack would be comparable to 3 swordsman vs ONE target. 3 phantasms are not always feasible either. Also reflects!

Nearly everything makes sense if you write it down like this, thx

But the poitons are bugged since release – or the tooltip is just terrible written. You take 10% more damage from enemies of the specific type. There is a also somewhere a thread about this at the bug forum. It has been confirmed by really many ppl. But well – we are Zerkers and we trade tankyness for dmg i guess :P