Mesmers In TPvP: Let's Talk Nerfs

Mesmers In TPvP: Let's Talk Nerfs

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Posted by: nerva.7940

nerva.7940

in my opinion, mesmers (along with certain bunker builds, which can actually be manageable) are ruining tpvp. it’s two things and you know exactly what im gonna say:

1. portals: for these control maps especially treb repair in Khylo, this is hugely OP. portals should either be an ult, or go on a huge CD after one use. this would fix it for WvW as well.

2. sword/pistol/staff/shatter: this playstyle effectively renders every other mesmer build obsolete. not only is this particular weapon combination and its typical shatter build the best 1v1 build in the game, but mind wreck is some of the best AOE burst in the game as well. this mesmer is not a one trick pony because you can literally do the stun/shatter/blurred frenzy burst combo over and over again. 15k+ burst on demand with a huge tank to boot. take that thieves.

/discuss

Ikiro – 80 Ranger
Umie – 80 Guardian
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgLbWtvtzdU0Ho0zto6VnTQ

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Posted by: Ayanavi.1904

Ayanavi.1904

in my opinion, mesmers (along with a certain undead profession, which needs more love as well) are bugged as kitten. It’s two things, and you know exactly what I’m gonna say:

1. Bugged skills: We have so many buggy traits and skills it’s not even funny. The last time they ‘fixed’ a bug, it was the phase-retreat into terrain glitch… which didn’t actually fix it, it still happens. I think our phantasm fury/retaliation traits still overwrite each other, and let’s not even get started on the +50% health signet, the phantasmal disenchanter.

2. Unloved Weapons: Our weapons have yet to receive any kind of “here, this will help!” patch. Ever. Despite our widely known issues with tagging in DE’s, and possibly the single slowest kill time relative to the other classes. We do, however, get our phantasms patched to attack slower, our attacks bounce less, and our primary AoE become 10s longer on a CD. What did we manage to get since launch exactly? Our scepter projectiles now travel moderately faster. In exchange for it’s best skill being cut to 3/4ths of it’s old range.

I hear a lot about how Mesmer is so OP in PvP, and lots of “ermahgerd, nerf demz!1011!1!!one!” from other professions. And, with little exception, Mesmer tends to receive at least one nerf per patch. No buffs. No bug fixes. No tweaking to our mechanics.

So before we talk nerfs, let’s talk bug fixes shall we? I sure would like a fully functioning class before I started wondering what I could take away or kitten on it. Especially since a massive portion of this game… happens to be PvE!

In the meantime, I don’t see how this issue deserves a more heartfelt response than say… Thieves insta-gibbing people both before and after the patch where in a change was made specifically to stop them from insta-gibbing. Out of stealth, at that.

Or how warriors still have the 32k Hundred Blades combo and tons of HP/armor to back it up.

“Oh, but those are so easy, you just need to learn to avoid them.”

… Well, use a stun break skill and dodgeroll on those shatters? Stop trying to take Mesmer, the 1v1 Dueling class which was made specifically for 1v1 Dueling and to excel at 1v1 dueling… In a 1v1 match?

And all of this may sound quite aggressive, but I would like to reiterate my point.

Let’s talk bug fixes and tweaks to our known problems as a profession instead of pretending that Mesmers exist purely to be unfair in PvP and make you miserable.

/discuss

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Posted by: Lumines.3916

Lumines.3916

Good use of portals means you can be literally two places at once. In forests you can drop a portal at keep and go assault mine/henge and port back when needed to defend. In foefire it means when you have the far point you can wear down keep door while still being able to instantly port back to defend. Kyhlo treb repair has been discussed to death.

Been leveling a Mesmer through WvW and been playing the shatter build you’ve described to better know how to fight against it, after 20 tPvP matches with it, I still don’t know how you’d go about really countering this spec outside of just 2v1 and blasting it. It runs berserkers and is a glass cannon, but it sure as hell does not feel like one when I play it.

My friends whom I play tournaments with usually are pretty even when we duel. However, none of them can even come close to beating this build. I’m not any better than them, it’s just purely being carried by class/build here.

Unlike Backstab thieves who blow half their utilities to set up their burst and can unload every 45s, you can do this combo pretty much every 12s (or 16s if you wait for iDuelist). You can hide behind the safety LoS while crapping illusions out to send after your foes. Like all Mesmers you can also LoS behind your illusions.

Warriors and Thieves can be CC’d to stop their burst if you’re quick (or have one of those CC them back when CC’d traits). For example, Reaper’s Protection > most of those two class’ combos. It does nothing to the Mesmer as blurred frenzy is complete invul. If you don’t have a stun break, condition removal, you can’t peel the Mesmer when using blurred frenzy and must eat the damage.

Phantasm builds and condition stacking builds can be soft countered by destroying their illusions effectively putting a stand still on their damage output. Shatter builds pop them as they come out, they get some of the initial phantasm damage in and go for shatter burst, the same rules cannot be applied here.

Lastly, the combo hits like a truck! Mindwrack can crit for 1.9-2k x4 (persona) even on toughness stacked characters. I can usually push them to 35-40% in one full combo, glass specs get straight up obliterated. This is all while having Portal, Decoy, and Blink to escape if things should ever get hairy. Don’t know how to go about nerfing the spec but it’s clearly too good.

Mesmers are far from just being the “duelist class” it’s the best at that for sure. But along with it, it also packs some of the best utilities in the game in a team setting. It’s easier to kill a Mesmer team fight yes, but they can also easily turn things over, Time Warp is steroids for your group on point. In tournaments if you’re somewhat roaming, all you have to do is go in with your combo and finish any fight with dat burst.

@Aya you sound like you’re upset over PvE nerfs due to PvP, that sucks and is understandable. But that doesn’t change the fact that Mesmers are too strong as a whole in both WvW and PvP. I feel the only problem for Mesmers at this point is DE tagging, they’re also extremely great to have in dungeons despite what regular PuGs think.

Also, yes Hundred blades hits like a truck, but there’s so many restrictions on it AND it’s even more of a one trick pony than thieves. If anything, Warriors are free kills when I see one..

Nevertheless, this thread is obviously on PvP balance and not so much the PvE/PvP split.

(edited by Lumines.3916)

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Posted by: Sabin.4590

Sabin.4590

i dont mind nerfs on pistol and staff, but please dont nerf gs and sword sword style of shatters, that would ruin mesmer pve more then it is already nerfed.

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Posted by: nerva.7940

nerva.7940

agreed, sword and GS are great as they are. arguably, even pistol is ok, but may need higher CD’s. if anything, mind wrack needs a nerf.

Ikiro – 80 Ranger
Umie – 80 Guardian
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgLbWtvtzdU0Ho0zto6VnTQ

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Posted by: Norseman.4280

Norseman.4280

I’m rather tired of tPvP people thinking the entire game ought to be balanced around their particular kind of play. You happen to play the one area where mesmer does shine a bit. Anet needs to throw something out to the PvE and WvW folks before any more nerfs happen. Reference Ayan’s post above.

Jade Quarry. [Nord] [OMFG]

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Posted by: Iconoclast.1506

Iconoclast.1506

If the build is so strong that it has no counter then why aren’t the top teams made up of just 5 mesmers?

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Posted by: Telsyr.8723

Telsyr.8723

Frankly I tire of the Blizzard-esque “nerf” tendencies of developers, I know how to fix pvp, get rid of it, it is only going to drag GW2 down further due to its poor design to begin with. WvW and PvE are more than sufficient to keep player base longevity.

But heaven forbid they would rather drive players away than lose their e-sport, the only other way to fix everything is to isolate PvP completely, much like items are their own entity in PvP/PvE skills should follow, and before you start in about it “Ruining the game” Asian-based MMO’s have been using two sets of skills (Same skills different damage/effect/CD/DR’s) for over 10 years with a hugely positive results.

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Posted by: Tinantier.5964

Tinantier.5964

So again a PVPer comes in here, crying and QQing and demanding nerfs because of their own lack of ability? Same old, in every game I suppose.

Telsyr is absolutely right – split the skills – not only does it work in Asian MMOs, it worked in GW1 as well – It amazes me that they haven’t done that here given how good an idea it actually is.

The PVPers can QQ to their hearts content then without affecting the PVEers (and lets face it, when did you last see a PVEer come in screaming for nerfs?)

Yasma – Mesmer – Divine Legend – Desolation

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Posted by: NatashaK.9418

NatashaK.9418

Buffs and nerfs for sPvP dont bother me much. I can create any class at 80, and give it whatever gear / spec I want. People playing this can be assumed to be the best and no one cares about the low skilled players trying to get through their personal story.

If I have a PvE/WvW character and they nerf say the GS and I have to swap all my zerker gear for carrion (or whatever) that hurts a lot.

I’m pretty much never going to beat anyone 1v1 in a fair fight. So I don’t spec to try, and I focus on strategy so that the fights are never fair.

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Posted by: Odaman.8359

Odaman.8359

Treb repair has been beaten to death. No the repair kit should not be able to be taken through the portal.

The shatter build though… that’s a different story. The counter is any aoe spam class killing the clones =p There’s a reason it’s not run in wvw, and I promise it’s not because another build is better fighting groups. It’s because clones die running into the zerg. It’s fine if you burn mirror images in melee, but outside of that you’re not getting a good mind wrack. The same goes for decent teams in tpvp.

It’s a strong build, and something does need to be changed in tpvp’s balance. I don’t think shatter build should be first though.

Odaman 80 Mesmer
Maguuma

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Posted by: Krelkain.5418

Krelkain.5418

This is more of an all encompassing point, but I think one thing that bugs me is that the mesmer has a learning curve.

It’s not a class one can readily jump into.

If someone learns to play it well and effectively, that’s their gain. When you’re up against overwhelming opposition and managing to hold your own, you’re having to work for it. You’re pulling all the stops that you can because you played a lot and trained yourself up to that point.

On that note, I just think that nerfs, should any be deemed necessary, have thoughtful consideration so that it doesn’t go too far. An undesirable result is that you get a class where it takes more effort to accomplish the same thing that another class can do. What you achieve should scale with the amount of effort you put in if possible.

Edit: Sounds like im suggestin a learning curve is bad — it aint. I’m just saying that, in a way, a good mesmer has earned their right to play their class well and do well cause of it. Not in every situation of course, but yeah — I think y’all might get what I mean.

Jezri | [NoQQ] Earmentalist & Guardkat
[NoQQ] Videos
Devona’s Rest

(edited by Krelkain.5418)

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Posted by: Ayanavi.1904

Ayanavi.1904

@Lumines

It’s not so much that I’m upset over the PvE nerfs, because honestly I love Mesmer and am still quite capable of running WvW/PvE/sPvP pretty well. With each patch it becomes a little harder, but Mesmer has always been about having to try harder to achieve a similar effect – So in a way, it’s like adding just a little more of a learning curve.

What I’m irritated about, however, is that these nerfs in general are being focused on and provided before any of our bugs are fixed. I can understand people QQing over some profession and wanting nerfs, and I can understand that a profession’s capabilities will fluctuate over time due to patches and changes in metagame, so that’s simply expected.

What I can’t understand however, is why all of these nerfs are being treated as a higher priority than the bugs and short-comings in the profession that have been known almost since launch? And with each patch of people finding something new to demand a nerf for regarding Mesmer, it’s another patch where our profession remains awkward and buggy.

Is it too much to ask for some legitimate attention to be paid to how well we function overall before we cater to the one specific crowd that walks into the Mesmer side of the forums, a profession which has received no bug fixes and at least one nerf a patch, and then makes a thread specifically going “Let’s talk about how we can nerf you more.”

…When do the Mesmers get love? If we get nerfed more, I’ll adapt and make do then as well, but can’t we at least get nerfed more after they throw some bug fixes our way?

Can people stop QQing over something else Mesmer has done in sPvP long enough for Anet to actually tinker with our profession?

Edit: I think it’s funny that so much QQ comes from Mesmer in sPvP. Does anyone remember that when the game first launched, there was this really heavy “anti-mesmer” feel on the boards, where a bunch of hardcore PvP people disregarded Mesmer as a “trash” profession because anything it could do could be covered better by a different profession?

I was here. Retribution feels good.

(edited by Ayanavi.1904)

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Posted by: LaronX.8079

LaronX.8079

sigh this again. we need to mack a stick with “QQ ppl read this first”

1. ALL our ullity is bound either to a area or to shattering/keeping our Illuisons/phantasem. By looking and moving around as soon as you see certain stuff droped you can negate the effect. The enemy Mesmer uses time warp? Well move back he blew a massiv CD and if you don’t fight him on the ground he wants to he wasted it. Or push him out.

2. We have sooooo much burst. True mindwrack is on a pretty short CD if spec for it (12 sec) and you can use CoF to cover the down time pretty good. But all our burst can be avoided pretty easy. Shatter, B-frenzy everything. We have 2 stuns. Both have a decently long CD(25sec) and one of them is a utility that gives cond. dmg. Which means it is pretty usless for burst builds. The problem most classes have is that they tend to only take a stun breaker and try to use it at our leap frenzy combo. Which is stupied as hell. “Immobilized” is a condtion and can be clansed by any condtion remover. And there are tons of ways to get ride of condtions for every class.

3. You try to get into a 1v1 fight with the most confusing class in the game with little to no knowledge about the mechanics of the class. You pretty much ask to get killed.

Blub.

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Posted by: nerva.7940

nerva.7940

guys, im not asking for tips. i play a high level mes in tpvp, in addition to other profs. i only play tpvp. im asking for a nerf. thanks.

Ikiro – 80 Ranger
Umie – 80 Guardian
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgLbWtvtzdU0Ho0zto6VnTQ

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Posted by: Odaman.8359

Odaman.8359

High level tpvp against idiots who can’t seem to counter one of the most telegraphed abilities in the game.

Odaman 80 Mesmer
Maguuma

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Posted by: Ayanavi.1904

Ayanavi.1904

>Plays high level Mesmer in tPvP
>tPvP automatically scales you to the highest level
>only plays tPvP
>Asks for a nerf to the entire profession based on moderate experience in a single aspect of the game

Welp.

The sad thing? I bet you’ll get a nerf for us if you QQ hard enough.

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Posted by: Criselli.7462

Criselli.7462

The mesmer GS did get a buff. Particularly to skills 1 and 3. The scepter as well recently received (albeit minor) improvement to it’s #1 skill. So please don’t claim we haven’t received any love.

To the OP. It’s not our only viable build but it is one of the more common.

Aiyli 80 Necro, Aista & Criselli 80 Mesmers
Aîsta & Çriselli 80 engies, Zeira Blackstar 80 Grd Meloryn 80 Ran, Vexri Crisellista 80 War
Server: Kaineng

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Posted by: Ayanavi.1904

Ayanavi.1904

…By “buff”, do you mean “Mesmer stopped having to become perfectly still in a mobile combat game for upwards of 2-3 seconds to launch a very small-radius AoE with an equally long cast time to move out of the very small circle”? Or “Mesmer’s auto-attack is no longer slower than kittens compared to every other profession”?

And isn’t the scepter’s increased projectile speed essentially negated by it’s continued inability to cause confusion, the bug fix of Scepter 3 having 900 range instead of 1200, the scepter auto-attack overwriting phantasms, and the fact that it’s still our worst weapon possible in nearly every build out there?

Not sure if that’s love… Or bribing the kid to not report parents to social services.

It comes back to just wanting the profession to be functioning entirely as intended before altering it, rather than switching things out on the fly during the repair process. We don’t even know the Mesmers full capabilities, and we’re demanding it be changed already.

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Posted by: Criselli.7462

Criselli.7462

I consider it a buff as it’s Better Now than Previously. Working as intended is an entirely different issue. Regardless, they’ve altered the weapons (for better or worse) so it’s not like they’re completely unaware.

Aiyli 80 Necro, Aista & Criselli 80 Mesmers
Aîsta & Çriselli 80 engies, Zeira Blackstar 80 Grd Meloryn 80 Ran, Vexri Crisellista 80 War
Server: Kaineng

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Posted by: RaM.8523

RaM.8523

@Telsyr.8723 “Asian-based MMO’s have been using two sets of skills (Same skills different damage/effect/CD/DR’s) for over 10 years with a hugely positive results.”

You mean like GW1?

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Posted by: ManCaptain.3154

ManCaptain.3154

To your number 2 point:
First, I’ll stop playing that one build that everyone is playing when ANet actually properly designs the class. When they actually make something other than zerker shatter burst builds viable, then I might play something else. Until then I’ll keep playing the one build that actually works, thank you very much.

And secondly, how can you even compare thief and mesmer. Mesmer using Mind Wrack shatter + blurred frenzy + phantasms and if they all crit he can deal 15k damage perhaps, but it’s all telegraphed and a lot of it is avoidable. Thief deals massive amounts of damage popping out of stealth.
And your claim that they have 45 second recharge to do it is a complete strawman argument. They only need to use their utilities if they want really high damage single hit. They deal massive damage just fine without using any utilities. Steal for 4.8k, then cloak and dagger for 6k, backstab for 7k+, even throw dagger crits for over 4k. All of this while shadowstepping and popping in and out of invis.

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Posted by: Gajarell.4370

Gajarell.4370

> sword/pistol/staff/shatter the one and only build

Still assuming that staff/gs beats this build and i am sure that the gap is not nearly as wide as you think it is.

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Posted by: Blood Red Arachnid.2493

Blood Red Arachnid.2493

I came up with the sword/pistol/staff shatter build on my own awhile ago, and it is quite powerful. The entirety of the power can be based on one thing that I do think should recieve a bit of a nerf:

Clones are too difficult to kill.

The issue with a good mesmer build is that they are capable of mass producing clones very quickly. This wouldn’t be a problem if the clones didn’t do anything, but the fact is that the clones do many things. Sword clones stack vulnerability, and staff clones cause conditions, and the presence of clones themselves gives increased power to shatter skills. You would think it would be advantageous to kill the clones off so they lose these abilities, but the mesmer makes them so fast that no advantage is really gained from destroying the clones. The clones themselves have enough HP that it takes several attacks to destroy any one, and they don’t always bunch up into an easy-to-AoE cluster. What you can do is spend the whole fight just destroying the clones, who then act as a defensive barrier for the mesmers that stop incoming damage. It doesn’t help that often times a mesmer can get lost amongst it’s clone army.

Darned if you destroy the clones, darned if you don’t. There isn’t a tactic other than to try and take the mesmer down before you get overwhelmed, and to that end the mesmer has plenty of tools to stop that from happening. The hardest bit is actually fixing this problem, since no matter which way you turn you end up stepping on toes.

You can make clones have less health, but this hurts players who don’t use clone builds since their naturally forming clones now crumble like leaves, making them useless. You can make it so players can’t make clones as quickly, but this destroys the usefulness of any and all illusion based abilities since they can’t be used as frequently or just don’t work as well anymore. There needs to be some kind of diminishing return system in place where having a few clone abilities is good, but overloading with clone abilities doesn’t work that well. If you can figure one out, be my guest.

I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.

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Posted by: ManCaptain.3154

ManCaptain.3154

What? If you have aoe like guardian staff kill the clones otherwise just ignore them.
It’s not hard. Pick out the real mesmer and apply pressure on him. Watch clones to dodge the shatter. Easy. I never target clones.

What you can do is spend the whole fight just destroying the clones, who then act as a defensive barrier for the mesmers that stop incoming damage.

Then don’t do that. It’s not rocket science. Ignore the clones.

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Posted by: Blood Red Arachnid.2493

Blood Red Arachnid.2493

Sometimes you just know when someone didn’t pay attention.

I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.

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Posted by: Urkhan.7126

Urkhan.7126

Cloaking, Portal, 10s Moa, you don’t need to pvp to understand that some skills may be over the top.

After all you are the self-proclaimed mesmer masters, that created a lvl 80 and understand everything about a class, still, you don’t know how to read the trait tooltips to try to understand what could cause the imbalances. You could have created a post about a specific skill, or trait, but no… you had to go to the obvious. Nerf the mesmer, the class that have illusions and can shatter them.

Imbalanced or not, what ever happens, you will always complain.

And Blood Red Spider :-P, I don’t think that’s the problem, to calculate the staff damage you have to sum all those factors, conditions, illusions uptime, shatter damage, staff damage, is the damage in 12 seconds that much to handle? How much time to setup? With or without phantasm? how much of that damage is avoidable or cleansed? What can be imbalanced for a weapon may not be a problem for another at all.

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Posted by: Loosifah.4738

Loosifah.4738

You do realize our portal closes after like 10 seconds, right?

Also clones do no damage themselves, phantasms do the damage. And recently our phantasms all got stuck on a higher CD so we can’t mass produce them.

(edited by Loosifah.4738)

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Posted by: Valandil.8152

Valandil.8152

Can anyone link the build you talk about?

(edited by Valandil.8152)

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Posted by: Omnio.3652

Omnio.3652

Everything is OP I hear in PvP. Someone hates this and someone hates that. I think PvP in GW 2 is quite ballanced because everyone is whining about it. But! I play only sPvP so far so cant speak for tPvP which is usualy quite different.

Yet in sPvP I met warrior who was able to take me down as nothing (yes, I play mesmer), thief who was able to kill me by one or two hits from stealth – I hate it, but hey its thief and I think as thief he is supposed to be doing it to light armor classes. I met guardian who let me kill myself thx to his retaliation – yea, my bad, etc. etc. Every class here is good if you can realy play it I think. There are bugs etc. so as Ayanavi sad, first bug fixes, after that lets talk nerfs.

P.S. Everything is OP if you can play it better than the other man. I was dying pretty fast and a lot at start. Now? Almost rank 20 and hey, I’m making cry even some guardians who I hated before and I also can survive most thiefs, at least for a while, but good players, no matter what profession, get me down whenever they want to.

Was he swedish?
Yes.
A moose. It was a moose.

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Posted by: Odaman.8359

Odaman.8359

You don’t have to kill clones to counter a shatter build, that’s the thing. You dodge mind wrack. Usually that means you’re dodging cry of frustration as well since they hit at pretty much the same time. After that you’re free to fight the mesmer itself while only having to deal with distortion for 10s. 24s after the initial burst you’ll have to dodge again. The boon strip has more issues than the damage itself and honestly with the lack of stripping in this game if you nerf that aspect you need to redistribute it elsewhere.

Odaman 80 Mesmer
Maguuma

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Posted by: djmckie.4876

djmckie.4876

To take away the Mesmer ability to teleport their team mates would go against Anets own ideal for team based play. the cooldown on the portal is also fairly long considering it only stays open for 10 secs.

As for shattering clones, a lot of classes AoE skills kill clones before they can be shattered (thanks in part to signet of illusions being kittens (i actually typed out kittens).

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Posted by: Blood Red Arachnid.2493

Blood Red Arachnid.2493

And Blood Red Spider :-P, I don’t think that’s the problem, to calculate the staff damage you have to sum all those factors, conditions, illusions uptime, shatter damage, staff damage, is the damage in 12 seconds that much to handle? How much time to setup? With or without phantasm? how much of that damage is avoidable or cleansed? What can be imbalanced for a weapon may not be a problem for another at all.

Hence, why it is that making clones weaker will hurt other builds that don’t spam them too much. All of these other questions should be immediately answerable to anyone who has experience with the build: Set up is nearly instant since clone manufacturing abilities like Mirror Images, Decoy, Desperate Decoy, and Deceptive Evasion and this is all without going into weapon skills or weapon swapping. The damage from conditions caused by clones is not avoidable since 3 of them firing it off constantly provides no focal point in which you can dodge and evade. Cleansing it not beneficial since the conditions caused by those skills are short lived and are continually reapplied to sustain damage. Avoiding the damage from shatter skills is not reliable since shatters are instantaneous at close range and cannot be seen from behind and will chase the player down instead of detonating at whatever location they are standing in, assuming that the player is not dazed, stunned, or otherwise disabled, which they usually are.

I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.

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Posted by: EsLafiel.4517

EsLafiel.4517

To your number 2 point:
First, I’ll stop playing that one build that everyone is playing when ANet actually properly designs the class. When they actually make something other than zerker shatter burst builds viable, then I might play something else. Until then I’ll keep playing the one build that actually works, thank you very much.

First let me say I cut out your second part, because I agree with it.

I’m a Mez and I dont use this build.
Actually I only use shatter for f4.
Which even that is rare.

Yet I’ve tooking out 1v5 on multy times, and sometimes even against larger numbers.(in WvW, but that’s with using the terrain to my advantage)

In 1v3, i can count on one hand how many times ive died. and I got over 600hrs on this ez charr, with a lot of it in WvW and spvp.

So yes Mez maybe OP, but it not this build that for sure.

Well main thing I wanted to say was, their is multy other good builds out their for Mez.

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Posted by: Volrath.1473

Volrath.1473

Moa Morph should not last more that 4 seconds… atm it’s a “I WIN Button”

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Posted by: Nedrapter.9752

Nedrapter.9752

Ruining or not Portal has only one effective use and it’s that. Nerfing it would make it totally useless. If you dont like that portal, replace it with a totally different utility. Mesmers already have many pointless utility spells. As for the shatter builds they are strong but not to the point you describe them. First Anet nerfs phantasms to the point that PVE is too hard compared to other classes. Now you ask to nerf shatter? what after that?

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Posted by: gorma.3725

gorma.3725

Sigh … there will always be a OP Mesmer build. First you cry about phantasms and it gets nerfed, now you cry about shatter. I already have the next OP build for the case shattering gets nerfed. Say hai to confusion glamour

Regarding portals i don’t like them aswell. Its an instant “lulz we outnumber u” button. And spvp seriously doesn’t need more outnumbering. I hate portals as much as bunker builds And they both are needed to win this is what sucks atm not mesmers in general.

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Posted by: Shinigami.5932

Shinigami.5932

I agree Tpvp is not everything and those who do it, being competitive, can easily tunnel vision on it. I also agree moa for 10 seconds is probably too long. Few things I don’t understand/agree with:

People keep talking about a mesmer portal and it’s wonderous powers. iirc the mesmer portal requires you to be standing where you want the entrance, then run to where ever you want the exit to be to place it. Then once you have placed the exit, the portal lasts 10 seconds with about a 60 second cooldown. These claims of a mesmer being able to teleport back and forth between battle zones wreaking havoc everywhere sound overblown. Like, extremely exaggerated.

Frankly I tire of the Blizzard-esque “nerf” tendencies of developers, I know how to fix pvp, get rid of it, it is only going to drag GW2 down further due to its poor design to begin with. WvW and PvE are more than sufficient to keep player base longevity.

But heaven forbid they would rather drive players away than lose their e-sport

You blame developer’s for tending toward “blizzard style nerfs”? If anything it’s the players who have kept the spirit of nerf & buff alive by bringing the mentality with them to every other game. Adjustments in this game I haven’t seen anywhere near the extreme that blizzard use to do.

Get rid of pvp because loud posters hate certain aspects? Sounds like cutting off your hand to remove some freckles. Rather drive away players to keep esport? You realize removing esport would also drive away players? Your whole post comes across as very bitter and jaded from past experiences unrelated to gw2.

Aizen San

(edited by Shinigami.5932)

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Posted by: Relentliss.2170

Relentliss.2170

They are completely dominating in current pvp. You can’t give a class high survivability, high control and high damage and not expect them to pwn everyone. Something has to give. Not to mention how devastating portal bomb is in wvw… strut up invisible and plonk 40 foes in your midst… c’mon.

We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional

Anet lied (where’s the Manifesto now?)

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Posted by: Gwalchgwn.1659

Gwalchgwn.1659

I hear a lot about how Mesmer is so OP in PvP, and lots of “ermahgerd, nerf demz!1011!1!!one!” from other professions

You should try reading the thief forums lol. I try to find rageposts on every forum just so I don’t feel like everyone is targeting the thief. But compared to the thief forums, approximately no one complains here … :P

Ring of Fire
GL – “The Afternoon’s Watch” [OATH]

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Posted by: Leuca.5732

Leuca.5732

All I can say is that my third time playing a mesmer in PvP, I made my own “cannon” build with a GS, and proceeded to decimate people; often in 2v1. The burst is stupid high; and half of the time people can’t lock on to you because you’re removing target or not in LoS. I killed a siege without having to even look at the person who was trying to defend it by using GS4 and crapping out dodge clones. It was extremely easy work; even if not quite as fast as a staff ele raining MS down. I actually felt a little bad; the poor guy had no idea I was just sitting in a corner spamming some stupid crap. I almost killed him in the process I think, what with the AoE from GS4 and shatters.

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Posted by: EasymodeX.4062

EasymodeX.4062

1. portals: for these control maps especially treb repair in Khylo, this is hugely OP. portals should either be an ult, or go on a huge CD after one use. this would fix it for WvW as well.

This wouldn’t make much difference for WvW. Please don’t spam about gameplay segments with which you are unfamiliar.

2. sword/pistol/staff/shatter: this playstyle effectively renders every other mesmer build obsolete. not only is this particular weapon combination and its typical shatter build the best 1v1 build in the game, but mind wreck is some of the best AOE burst in the game as well.

Ironically, most scrubby Mesmers believe that Phantasm army is better than Shatters.

If you can’t read English, please do not reply to my post.

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Posted by: djtool.8372

djtool.8372

why do people complain about portals instead of altering their thief and ranger builds to spam all their traps right on the exit portal? has anyone even thought to try that? Seems like that would really bleep the mesmer up <shrug>.

And like I said in the other thread like this I’m sure if AoE was more commom there wouldn’t be nearly as many complaints about mesmer. Its not the mesmers fault that people only want to do bunkers and ST damage.

Listen i’m not saying that there couldn’t be an adjustment or two, there’s always room for that in any profession. It just seems to me people don’t like mesmers because they don’t want to adjust their playstyles. I hate fighting mesmers too, so I changed my mesmer build to give myself more consistent AoE damage (and for us that’s pretty much just bouncing attacks) so I could more properly deal with mesmers and that thieves guild elite.

ever since this game launched people have been trying to make arena.net adjust the professions to fit their own personal concepts or playstyles.

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Posted by: EasymodeX.4062

EasymodeX.4062

Zomg are you serious? You can change your build to adapt to your opponents?

Holy kitten when did they add this feature to games?

If you can’t read English, please do not reply to my post.

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Posted by: tqhx.2190

tqhx.2190

You are completely full of it. Im a GS/Staff build with full exotic Berzerker gear and have played TPVP plenty. I feel like most fights are pretty fair and balanced. The only i win we have is MOA, which i feel maybe could be nerfed to a 5-6s instead of 10s. Otherwise i dont feel greatly OP vs anyone, especially not when i was fighting some engi and no matter how much dps i did his health bar was barely moving, or the thief who vanished when i had him at 20%, came back about a minute later and killed me within 3 seconds. Im not complaining, im sure i could stack toughness and duke it out longer, but then my DPS would suffer more. My mind wrack crit% is 45% and it does crit for 2k, but i feel like it still doesnt crit that often, usually all 3 pops are 1k hits. My zerker which is my only other spell that does any real dps has a pretty long CD, and any smart player who knows to smack my clones and phantasms a couple times leaves me completely defenseless. Either you are playing against terrible players, or this thread is complete trollbait.

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Posted by: Oliver.7201

Oliver.7201

I prefer to think of builds and classes like a game of rock, paper, scissors. One will always have an advantage over the other. And memsers are no exception. They are made to be tricky and controlling; just like warriors are made to be sturdy and unrelenting. Every class has an OP build and no matter how much nerfing is done there is always going to be another OP build. By this very logic we could keep nerfing all the classes down to nothing. >_< Now thats no fun is it?

Also it helps if you stop thinking of clones and phantoms like pets, they are spells which are no more different to that of any other spell caster. Now you don’t stand inside the red circle when a elementalist fires off a storm, nor do you try killing all a necromancers minions, nor do you focus on the rangers pet while they kill you from afar. Well the mesmer is no different.

On the topic of mesmer being no different. I agree completely with whats been said above; the mesmer has a step learning curve, and nerfing damage or timing on any skill will only make that curve bigger, causing those in PvE to suffer. The mesmer will always be the class that flicks around the field causing absolute chaos, and for lack of a better word trolling, thats what they do; it’s in-build, you can’t change it, no more then you change the fact scissors will always beat paper. No more then you can change thieves going invisible. Thats what the class does, Nerfing Anything Won’t Change It. What your looking at is a complete redesign, and I say NO.
Huff Puff

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Posted by: Leuca.5732

Leuca.5732

Some mesmer builds have no learning curve to operate at a relatively functional level. Maybe coming from somebody who plays ele a lot, but I find the mesmer extremely easy to operate. I mean, all that operative ability on 1-2 weapon sets with nothing else but f1-f4 to worry about is just a breeze.

There is also a difference between being tricky/controlling and being tricky/controlling with loliblowupurface damage along with it.

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Posted by: Cathaoir.5467

Cathaoir.5467

The problem with the Moa Elite, is that the Moa is completely useless in all regards, I know that’s the point but pressing any attack button will guarantee you your death as your not running away. It’s a Moa for goodness sake make it faster and have more “Run Away” buttons at the very least give it a small heal.

It’s the reverse issue of 90% of the game’s transformation elites being awful just ask any warrior about Juggernaut or any engineer about Elixir X.

Dont nerf Mesmer, Buff Moa.

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Posted by: Delofasht.4231

Delofasht.4231

@Cathaoir: I agree, don’t nerf Mesmer, Buff Moa. Both sides of the ability, reduce it’s CD, but give people basically a free get the kitten out of dodge ability. In fact, make them 100% invulnerable for all I care, for 10 seconds, but let me use it every 90 seconds. NOW THAT is a button to push, both offensively for keeping someone out of a fight and defensively for holding a point till reinforcements come. Man oh man, that’d be fun times right there! Doubt there’d be quite as much QQ about how getting Moa’d wins the fight then, it just pauses the fight for 10 seconds, at least 1v1. (which btw, might still be really strong since it’d give you a burst combo, Moa, burst combo up again if timed well, for after the 100% invulnerability)

“I’m sorry, my responses are limited. You must ask the right questions.”
- Dr. Alfred Lanning, fictional character of great intellect.

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Posted by: djtool.8372

djtool.8372

Zomg are you serious? You can change your build to adapt to your opponents?

Holy kitten when did they add this feature to games?

I sure hope I didnt blow your mind so hard that you’ll sue me to cover medical expenses. I have kids to buy presents for soon. :-)