Guild Wars 2

Alright. I didn’t do the math, I can only report from my own playing experience here.

Please refrain from arguments like “lol, it’s a multiplayer game” – that’s not my point here. I also feel useless in the damage department in PvE when partying, but I won’t have to be the one DPSing in that case, so it’s not that bad there. Still, the official stance of ANet is that all professions are viable for any of the three roles: Control, Support and yes, that includes damage.

So I’d like to know if I’m the only one who gets the following impressions when playing Mesmer solo in PvE, compared to my play experience with other professions.

- downing groups of normal mobs takes significantly longer
- instant, direct damage-dealing at the beginning of combat is significantly lower
- in general, it takes a lot of specializing / picking certain weapons (sword, pistol, staff for me) and specific rotations / skill combinations in order to down mobs at a speed somewhat comparable to other professions who can pick any weapon and just faceroll

- the one good thing I can think of: singular tough opponents can be survived almost indefinitely (until someone with way higher DPS comes along to finish the job for us, which would otherwise take ages)

I’m well aware of the official claim that Mesmers play ‘differently’. I didn’t expect it would result in having to invest much more effort than others to reach the same efficiency in PvE.

And no: This is not supposed to be a whine thread – I’m very much asking for suggestions in playstyle for doing more direct damage, downing mobs as quickly as possible, and generally finding an ‘ideal’ aprpoach to clearing PvE content quickly, straightforward and efficiently as a Mesmer. At the moment I’m traited for Domination, using longsword + pistol / staff.

mesmar are horrible pve profession. deal with it or reroll.

I’ve played my mesmer doing solo PvE quite a few ways, and in most ways i’ve been very succesful with it.

Staff:
A lot more survivability, good for boss fights and story quests. Requires kiting.

Sword/Sword:
Good damage and control, works great for running around doing DE’s and hearts. Kinda squishy but if you can dodge and evade well then you won’t have any problems.

Greatsword:
Great damage, kiting required, but you can drop enemies really quickly. Also seems to work very well if you do occasional dungeons and want to DPS.

Sword/Focus:
Haven’t done this one too much, but it works similar to S/S, just with some more survivability.

I personally use greatsword and sword+focus for most general questing. A good amount of AoE damage with beserker and warden and both 2 attacks from the different swords, also some good control abilities with the knockback and the focus 4 ability.

Atm I mainly use greatsword with the flame aoe gem. I have a high crit rate and it procs quite often allowing me to down your average mob pretty quick. Also greatsword is a great weapon for kiting like xerukm says.

I would recommend having a look this video demonstrating big pulls using shatter build. The discussion to this video can be found on reddit.

MrPrometheus is demonstrating his leveling bouncy staff build by pulling group of mobs here.

There is also a video demonstrating some pulls but it feels bit slower than the previous examples.

Try switching to focus offhand for pulls involving multiple mobs and practicing how to maximize uptime of the iWarden on the mobs. Unfortunately I have no videos demonstrating that, but Blurred Frenzy with the Warden next to you can result in a big AoE.

I would say that playing mesmer requires more “finese” to be really effective than just charging and pressing a button but I consider the skillcap as an advantage. You can be way less effective with bad build for given situation, but if you can adapt to the situation you will shine.

I’m currently not that experienced myself compared to lot of other players so that is the reason I’m linking videos instead of writing guides. There are a lot of people that are not satisfied with performance of the mesmers, but from the videos and some comments you can see that there are people thinking that mesmers are fine in PvE too and they are not afraid to demonstrate that.

Fast tagging in zergy DE can be a issue for mesmers but maybe this can help a bit.

@kubetz: Thanks, I’ll have a look at those videos later.

Try switching to focus offhand for pulls involving multiple mobs and practicing how to maximize uptime of the iWarden on the mobs. Unfortunately I have no videos demonstrating that, but Blurred Frenzy with the Warden next to you can result in a big AoE.

Thing is when I use the Focus 4 on where my Warden is (to pull the mobs to him), it pulls the mobs everywhere across the map, but not to anywhere close to the Curtain (or Warden). I don’t understand how to influence the outcome? Or is it a bug?

Another thing I realized, is once you learn to use your combo’s properly, you can up your DPS by quite a lot.

For instance, using a greatsword:

Feedback + Mirror Blade will cause a lot of confusion procs on the enemy, follow it up with Phantasmal Berserker and he will WW and cause confusion bolts for aoe confusion. Adds up to a lot of damage and burst.

Same can be done with various other AoE fields, such as Veil and the AoE poison skill you get from being Asura.

I haven’t experiment too much with these yet, but if you set up some combo’s you can easily drop most enemies.

Endolex.8327:

Thing is when I use the Focus 4 on where my Warden is (to pull the mobs to him), it pulls the mobs everywhere across the map, but not to anywhere close to the Curtain (or Warden). I don’t understand how to influence the outcome? Or is it a bug?

It should pull mobs towards the curtain but the distance of the pull is constant. If mob is close to curtain it will move to the other side of curtain. If his distance from the curtain is matching the pull distance he should be moved right into the center.

Here is a topic about it.

It is definitely not that easy to use to pull mobs towards the Warden’s AoE – at least not for me at the moment.

@xerukm: Thanks for the suggestions to look into combos in general. Though I get the feeling that confusion is not worth much in PvE, due to mobs attacking very slowly. :/

@kubetz:

It should pull mobs towards the curtain but the distance of the pull is constant.

Ah, that clears it up a little! And makes the skill difficult to use indeed!

There are probably better combo’s I assume if you have a AoE fire field without much of a cooldown that would be much better off as it would cause burning. I just found out about these last night so I didn’t get to play around with them too much.

Confusion definitely doesn’t do great on slow mobs, but against smaller more mobile ones it works quite well if you don’t have better alternatives.

Talking about combo fields .. Ethereal combo field with leap finisher (staff #2, sword #3) is Chaos Armor, with blast finisher (Prestige) it is AoE Chaos Armor which is useful. Duelist can stack confusion through the field and Warden too.

We have also acess to light field too (Temporal Curtain, Veil) and Asura mesmers can utilize also poison fields (Radiation Field).

Here is a good reference about the effects and who has access to which fields and finishers.

Right, I almost forgot about that, the big thing about using an ethereal field, even though confusion isn’t as great as other conditions when it comes to PvE, is the chaos armor. It works wonders during DE’s and there are other people around the monster, and they end up causing a lot of conditions to be placed.

I haven’t checked to see if it applies to the clones if they use a leap, but I assume it would, which would also be a benefit.

All in all, at first it may seem like your DPS is lacking and it takes longer to kill monsters than say a warrior or guardian. With a little bit more effort I believe you can surpass their DPS entirely and provide more benefits to those around you (even if thats not your main goal).

So I’d like to know if I’m the only one who gets the following impressions when playing Mesmer solo in PvE, compared to my play experience with other professions.
- downing groups of normal mobs takes significantly longer
- instant, direct damage-dealing at the beginning of combat is significantly lower

I don’t get this feeling because I actually use a burst / direct damage build using GS, Elasticity, and IP. When I was hardcore farming centaurs, I even brought along Mirror Image. Could burn through 3-packs in abour 4 seconds.

Soft normal mobs (Skelks) I can murder in a single 3-hit combo using half condition damage gear (that’s right, condition damage gear in a power spec, because Order of Whispers gear is kitten and I don’t have the resources for a Berserker set yet :P). Good god when I get real power gear I will faceroll those in 2 attacks.

Most people can’t get it through their heads that their phantasm army builds are sustained afk damage. And then they wonder why it takes them time to ramp up their DPS.

- in general, it takes a lot of specializing / picking certain weapons (sword, pistol, staff for me) and specific rotations / skill combinations in order to down mobs at a speed somewhat comparable to other professions who can pick any weapon and just faceroll

Incorrect: other professions have to specialize for fast direct damage as well. Do Warriors do a lot of fast direct damage with Sword/Warhorn? With Longbow? With a Shout tank build? Mace/Shield?

No, they use Axe/GS and drop 50 points into their direct damage traits.

Is Sharper Images a burst damage trait? No. Then why do people keep using it if they want fast damage?

- the one good thing I can think of: singular tough opponents can be survived almost indefinitely (until someone with way higher DPS comes along to finish the job for us, which would otherwise take ages)

Clearly, if you’re surviving indefinitely against a singular tough opponent, you don’t have a max DPS build (or you’re not using the build in a max DPS manner).

I have been having a blast on my mesmer. Use combo fields+ pistol phantasm/sword phantasm. Try out the staff, its great. I was about to kite and kill 10 mobs in harathi hinterlands to get a skill point. and Later i was about to solo a CHAMPION + 2-3 of his adds. You just need to get comfortable with the weapons.

I’m not sure why people are even suggesting Mesmers are bad at PvE. Mine can take on hordes of mobs at once with a Greatsword + Sword/sword combination. And I mean solo, not with a group. I’ve fought three veterans and five regular mobs at once and came out victorious. Darn near blew every one of my cooldowns, but that’s how the Mesmer is meant to be played.

Some general tips for Mesmer solo leveling;
- Stay on your toes; Dodge is your best friend.
- Don’t be afraid to blow cooldowns; Pop them as necessary!
- Generate clones/phantasms whenever possible; Try to put them on the hardest hitting/longest living mob.
- Get a stun breaker; Blink, Mantras, and Decoy are great ones!
- Start off ranged; then finish them as they close in with a melee weapon (sword/etc.)
- USE YOUR HEAL; It’s on a 20 second cooldown! That’s nothing compared to other professions! ABUSE IT, especially when you have illusions active!

The Mesmer is a thinking man’s (or woman’s) class. You can’t just press one button like the Guardian or Warrior; you have to be using multiple tactics. Which, in my opinion, is why the Mesmer makes for such a fun profession.

what Amiron said.

i honestly obliterate things.

Probably not the class for you I’m afraid. They are not weak in PvE and they can kill multiple mobs better then alot of classes. And it is very very difficult to kill us. I actually don’t even remember the last time I died farming stuff

The last time I died farming stuff was when I was fighting a veteran frenzy abomination that was cripple immune, immob immune, daze/knockback/knockdown/stun immune, and then I ran into respawning risen necro veterans along with a spark, ember, and 2 more patrolling risen.

And I was using a full Mantra build with 4 Mantras and no Blink/Decoy so I couldn’t book it.

Endolex.8327:

So I’d like to know if I’m the only one who gets the following impressions when playing Mesmer solo in PvE, compared to my play experience with other professions.

- downing groups of normal mobs takes significantly longer
- instant, direct damage-dealing at the beginning of combat is significantly lower

The only time I have ever felt anything like this in PvE was dealing with the instance boss in the story instance below the Temple of Melandru in Cursed Shore.

Given how often that stupid thing teleports itself and how often it’ll suddenly go completely invulnerable, anyone dealing with that solo would feel exactly the same way.

- in general, it takes a lot of specializing / picking certain weapons (sword, pistol, staff for me) and specific rotations / skill combinations in order to down mobs at a speed somewhat comparable to other professions who can pick any weapon and just faceroll

Like previously mentioned by others, that applies to all professions, not just Mesmer.

Thanks for all the input and suggestions. I’m currently taking the time to watch MrPrometheus’ Comprehensive Guide and I think I picked up a lot of pointers here, too.

@mangarrage: I like Mesmer too much and I wouldn’t give up playing it for the world, even if it really were an underpowered profession. But I believe I’m going to get a grip on things now. I guess the power is all there, just a lot less obvious than in other professions.

I have played all the classes in the game, a necro to 80, elementalist, guardian and Mesmer to about level 40 and the rest about level 20 and Mesmer just plain suck in PvE compared to any of the other classes.

Since i did my Mesmer last it is with good gear, upgrades and etc. all through the leveling so far. The DPS is so low that even regular mob that the other classes 1-2 shot, with just the primary #1 skill becomes an entire fight in itself when doing it with the Mesmer and that is with scattering of the clones, if they are alive, when the mob is low on health.

The mesmer two main problems is:
– the low DPS without atleast one or two phantasmal up (which takes time and cooldowns)
– the phantasmals and clones can get one shot by anything, this means if there are many mobs you cannot get any phantasmals up and running OR and this is where it gets really bad, if there is any aoe from the mobs all your phantasmals just dies.

Those who things means that in so many fights the main damage output is just close to nothing.

The Mesmer is IMHO completly broken in PvE in a very bad way. The main problem is the phantasmals can be killed so easily, if they where invulnerable or the same health as the Mesmer it could help a bit.

Tdc, you’re doing it wrong if you’re DPS is low bud lol.

TdcTaz.9703:

- the low DPS without atleast one or two phantasmal up (which takes time and cooldowns)

The main feature of the mesmer’s playstyle is using illusions (not only phantasms), so it is obvious that without them the DPS is lower.

TdcTaz.9703:

- the phantasmals and clones can get one shot by anything, this means if there are many mobs you cannot get any phantasmals up and running OR and this is where it gets really bad, if there is any aoe from the mobs all your phantasmals just dies.

If you are using melee illusions mobs that are cleaving or have PBAoE attacks, then of course they die. If you are spawning all the illusions on 1 place so that everything will get killed at once, then yes, they will die too. It is all about placement and managing your illusions. If your illusions are dead faster than you can recast them and you are not even timing your shatters when you expect them to die, then you are doing something wrong (build or playstyle).

TdcTaz.9703:

The Mesmer is IMHO completly broken in PvE in a very bad way.

It is not broken. I would suggest you to watch/read some guides and get more experience or just move on.

Amiron, then please tell me what Im doing wrong? – what are you doing?

From what I read here is we can run and kite for hours, and take on elites without problems if you have an hour to take them down. The problem is that the other classes can do the same in seconds, my necro and AoE entire pacts in seconds including bronze elites. The elementalist can do the same if goes on a rotation with his attunements, the Guardian can just stand there and take the hits and wipe the mobs out without breaking a sweat, the warrior and thief has DPS that make the examples I just gave a joke.

Is it possible to overcome the challenges with the Mesmer, sure, but it just takes 3-4 times as long as any other class.

TdcTaz.9703:

Is it possible to overcome the challenges with the Mesmer, sure, but it just takes 3-4 times as long as any other class.

So other professions are killing things 3-4 times faster than this? Wow!

xerukm.9256:

I haven’t checked to see if it applies to the clones if they use a leap, but I assume it would, which would also be a benefit.

It applies the effect to illusions.

Examples:
- Illusionary Leap through ethereal combo field -> clone gets Chaos Armor. Swap afterwards and you will get Chaos Armor too.
- The Prestige inside ethereal field and the blast finisher will apply AoE Chaos Armor to everybody near including your illusions.
- Phantasmal Swordsman can periodically leap into the combo fields gaining various buffs (ethereal – Chaos Armor, light – retaliation, etc).

Many people don’t seem to realize that however successful they think they’ve been with Mesmer in PvE, and however much they think their kitten is growing by talking about it, that we still cannot, with any amount of skill, compete with other classes in PvE, either single target or AoE damage.

I’m not saying that mesmers are necessarily better damage dealers than other classes, because I don’t have suffient data to say that. My only other experience is an level 80 elementalist, but when I see people feeling “useless” or they are saying that mesmers “plain suck” or “are completely broken” then it is a clear sign that they are not utilizing complete potential of the profession.

Also I don’t think it is safe to assume that every player who doesn’t think that mesmers suck have no idea about the performance of other professions.

I’m beginning to think people that are complaining about mesmer inabilities even after shown a video on how competent they are are just sour because they can’t seem to play one no matter how hard they try.

And Tdc, it takes me literally seconds to destroy a mob in PvE. sometimes all it takes is two attacks. Mirror Blade, build up Power, and then Mind Wrack. If it is taking you ten minutes to kill a veteran, you’re doing it wrong.

The skinny on levelling a Mesmer and the issues:

All cloth is much slower to grind while levelling than the non-cloth, period. Ele is just as slow. My Thief levelled so much faster than any other character I have, even my Warrior. The Thief burst dps is crazy but they are melee and squishier than Warrior or Guardian.

Melee level faster than cloth. Thats it in a nutshell. What does Anet do about that without skewing balance in other areas? I can’t really say….

Amiron.1067:

I’m beginning to think people that are complaining about mesmer inabilities even after shown a video on how competent they are are just sour because they can’t seem to play one no matter how hard they try.

Yet your post makes me feel you haven’t played other classes which decimate a Mesmer’s take down power in PvE. Perhaps you are coming at it from a level 80 point of view? I can’t say.

GOSU, I have a level 80 Guardian. Trust me, I know the different perspective. My mesmer is just as good as my guardian, if not better.

I have an 80 Warrior and a 74 Mesmer currently and the Mesmer does not feel weaker, but it DOES require more effort to play. I do not think i can compare them fully until i am 80 on Mesmer but i think when my Mesmer is in exotic gear and weapons like my warrior… it will be a monster, it really is very effective in PvE right now

One thing to note, i do think Mesmer suffers a bit in viable builds at lower level (the 20-40 range felt a bit weak to me) but once you can take the 30traits it feels quite powerful

My best moments so far have been in that level range of 20-40, Ainianu >_>

Melee level faster than cloth. Thats it in a nutshell. What does Anet do about that without skewing balance in other areas? I can’t really say….

But…but…what if you’re melee cloth?

And yes, getting the exotic weapon is a night and day difference Ainianu.

My two cents.

Mesmer does not seem as good at burning down single mobs as some other professions I’ve played. (Using my build – sword/focus and staff, using precision/cond damage and sharper image.) For a lot of people coming from other professions, they will seem weak.

What I found though is I burn down 3 mobs almost as fast as I burn down 1. Chaos storm applies conditions in an area, Chaos Armor to anything that hits you, shatter is AOE, Warden is AOE, Winds of Chaos bounces to multiple foes if you keep them together, sword attacks and Blurred Frenzy are AoE . . . Pull a group, use movement and dodges to survive while dishing damage to the group, and watch everything drop.

Long fights should be the exception, not the norm.

Based on what you was said here I tried to put 20 points into dueling and get Sharper Images and Deceptive Evasion and I must admit that it made a world of change to the class and makes it very enjoyable.

But the last 10 levels to 40 is very annoying and slow, and I must admit that the last 3 levels was done with crafting because it was just too slow doing normal PvE content.

Mesmer does not seem as good at burning down single mobs as some other professions I’ve played. (Using my build – sword/focus and staff, using precision/cond damage and sharper image.) For a lot of people coming from other professions, they will seem weak.

You’re using a damage over time / not a burst damage build.

My favorite “build” right now is a 0/0/25/25/20 build with staff and scepter/focus. I love it. The survivability is great and I don’t seem to have any issue taking down mobs. I say “build” because the 0/0/25/25/20 combination can be reconfigured to do a lot. I can roll with heavy conditions, or switch to buff glamour, or switch again to buff phantasms, or switch again for reflective focus skill.

Staff is great for about everything as is Focus. I could probably switch out scepter for sword but I love the scepter’s clone spam (combined with Debilitating Dissipation).

I am currently level 17 and so far, I think I’m playing wrong. I’m using GS+S/F currently. Firstly, I don’t have any combo fields… from what I read here, it’s a big mistake.

I use the default healing ability. I was using the mantra one for a while but .. I don’t see the point. It takes time to charge, you get to heal instantly twice for slightly more than the original one, but more often than not, I find myself needing to re-meditate in mid-combat which isn’t good.

I have 2 utility skills – the mantra that deals damage (for some quick nukes) and a passive that grants a random boon every 10 seconds of combat. The random boon one doesn’t seem great.

Most of my combat goes as follows (against a mob of equal or lower level):
1) Max range with GS, use skill 1 to get attention and do some decent damage.
2) When mob has closed 50% of gap, use ability 4 then 2 to get phantasm up, give him a buff, and get clone up.
3) If the mob has reached me at this point, I use 5 to get him back and get a couple more 1’s off (not great damage at this range though). I’ll pop a 3 in there as well because it is a nice little burst of damage.. for the most part the mob doesn’t have any boons so it’s for damage only.
4) Mob will be at about 30% now, if 2 is off cooldown, I’ll get another clone up and mind wrack them, usually enough to finish them off.

This is how it usually goes against an enemy higher than me or a vet mob:
1) GS 1 at max range
2) Summon phantasm and clone. Clone dies before it can attack, phantasm gets to 50% immediately.
3) Realizing the phantasm will die in a second before he can get another attack off, I shatter it.
4) Skill 3 then 5 to get some damage and distance. Swap to S/F
5) Skill 3 for clone, 5 for phantasm and throw the wall up (4).
6) 3 again to swap to illusion, use skill 2 to deal some good damage while p.warden spins.
7) P.warden dies after mob looks at him, I need to pop my heal. Mob is at 40%.

This is where it tends to fall apart and where I start to feel week. Mesmer seems to have a lot of ‘build up’ as far as ramping up conditions and illusions, but I tend to lose illusions before I can see their effect. I’ve looked through the trait tree and it looks like the only buff you can give them as far as survivability is 20% increased health. If they’re getting 1-shot now, this will either not help or give them another 2 seconds to live. I don’t want them to tank for me.. I don’t even want them to distract for me. I want the phantasms to do damage and the illusions to be shatter fodder, but they act more like lemmings.

I feel like I need to use a staff. GS is great for weaker guys, can burst them down quickly. Also great for groups when I can sit back and nuke. I love the melee capabilities of sword/focus and sword/sword (sword/torch is interesting and I’d like to play with it more). Staff should allow me to keep illusions longer, remain in the fight longer, and kite easier. Not sure if I should do staff+s/(whatever) or staff/gs.

I think it’s pretty much a non-issue, because as O.P. stated, “mesmers play differently.” I neither think a single character should be able to solo everything, nor do I think my mesmer has had a particularly hard time soloing most things. My mesmer had very enjoyable conquests: recently, in personal story “against the corruption”, after the npcs wipe I was able to solo the rest on my second attempt. My mesmer soloed the 4 sharks for the Fernwood(?) skill point that was recently fixed. I believe one of my earliest WvW experiences was soloing the centaur skill point.

I use the same weapon sets as have since week #2, I’ve not felt compelled to adjust to that to the opposition.

I am not certain, not having played an ele at all, but I’ve been hearing a lot more complaints from elementalists than mesmers. I think mesmers can often break aggro, and ele’s cannot. That would be a detriment, indeed. Thus, I feel lucky I rather choose a mesmer first.

In conclusion, I do not find the mesmer as “tedious” as the O.P seems to indicate. I am quite happy with my experience.

Mongo.2490:

I am currently level 17 and so far, I think I’m playing wrong. I’m using GS+S/F currently. Firstly, I don’t have any combo fields… from what I read here, it’s a big mistake.

You have Temporal Courtain on Focus, which is a combo field, but it is light and not ethereal. Some of the utility skills you have access to are ethereal combo fields.

Make sure you have 5 points in Inspiration, because that is a great investment. Also I would suggest using Blink and Decoy as it can buy you some time and get you into better position and make your general movement faster during leveling process. On ranged encouters switch to Feedback and don’t forget to abuse the fact that it is an ethereal combo field so you can use Sword #3 to get chaos armor on your clone and also on you.

You can always use staff on tougher mobs and use GS otherwise if you like it. Using Chaos Storm defensively can boost survavibility of you and your illusions in more difficult fights.

I use the same 0/0/25/25/20 build as Juno. I usually use Staff / Scepter + Focus. Against a solo mob, I’ll call with Sceptre 3 (Confusion stream), use pWarden when he closes in, switch to staff, hit Staff 5 (Chaos Storm), then Staff 3 (pMage).

Confusing Images is great, because it does a stream of damage initially, but then lays out a lot of damage as the mob attacks. Also, there’s a trait that gives confusion 33% extra duration, and this makes it hit twice for full damage usually.

Alternately, I’ll call with staff 1, as they close hit staff 5 (Chaos Storm), get in the storm, pop out with staff 2 (giving me Chaos Armor), optionally call pMage with Staff 3. I can sit and tank a little bit by popping staff 4 (Chaos Armor), but most of the time the mobs are dead at this point.

EasymodeX.4062:

Mesmer does not seem as good at burning down single mobs as some other professions I’ve played. (Using my build – sword/focus and staff, using precision/cond damage and sharper image.) For a lot of people coming from other professions, they will seem weak.

You’re using a damage over time / not a burst damage build.

I know.

Mongo, I’d swap your utility skills. If you want spike damage, mirror images > mantra of pain. Feedback combos nicely with both sword and GS, and enemies are too stupid to stop shooting when they’re in it.

I did end up grabbing mirror images, find them useful to instantly create and shatter 3 illusions. I like feedback, but I find it to be too institutional for PvE (especially when I only have 2 utility slots.. hard to justify using it for 10% of the enemies I face).

Remember that Feedback is also a combo field. I know I have a hard time saying no to being able to apply Chaos Armor without needing a staff.

Extra post to unbug the thread. :/