Guild Wars 2

What is wrong with you people all i read is how you find mesmers so weak and how other classes are stronger!

LEARN TO PLAY THE GAME!

Mesmers may not be the strongest but thats not what they are used for! when your a lower level you should be able to solo if you are not a complete fool but once you get to the higher levels you need to work on how great they are in a group! i have not had a single problem with my mesmer and even when im in dungeons im probably the last person to die, all you have to do is make sure you move around and learn how to use your clones and phantasms to take the agro from you, im not going to tell you what weapons or traits to use because thats taking the fun out of the game and its up to you to choose what kind of mesmer you want to be!

stop being haters and enjoy the game,
if you cant get to grips with a mesmer then be a theif, warrior or gaurdian like everyone else!

I agree.
But I see this for all classes, “How do I do max DPS?”, “How do I tank the best?”, “What’s our highest damage ranged setup?”.

I call it “wowthink”, to reference 1984.
It is the doublethink of both accepting the non-role nature of GW2, and at the same time accepting or wanting to accept the – inherently conflicting – focus on a single role.

Now mind you, sure, I can make a glass cannon setup on any class. I’d argue that unless your enemies are stupid and ignoring you, you’re being inferior as a damage producer with that compared to a more defensive setup.
GW2 combat tends to be about survival, moving fronts and target-isolation (WvW), full control, zugzwang (sPvP) and redundant defensive maneuvers (PvE). Providing those things for each respective area of gameplay means you won before you engaged in the fight, and your damage becomes virtually meaningless (I mean, beyond what you do anyhow, glasscannon setup or not) simply because your enemy is not in a position to defeat you first.

That being said, you can very well make a GW2 character who viable focuses around dealing more damage than the average, say, Mesmer does. However, this still means you shouldn’t play it like a WoW Elemental Shaman, being a DPSer with nothing else behind it. You do nice damage + let your team down.

In short:
To cause maximum damage (making them lose), you should not aim to cause maximum damage (the number above the enemies’ heads).

And of course the fact that people just don’t tally the damage conditions do as real damage since it’s fairly difficult to corrolate and keep tabs on a lot of small ticking numbers compared to a big multi K swing from a greatsword on something else.

I agree,

I feel people are forgetting that GW is and has been about working in a team, its about figuring out what role you want to play in a group and trying to be the best at that role, but all i am seeing people say is how they cant do as much damage as another class, alot of people are making common areas and forgetting to utilise their traits to their role, but they are also forgetting that not all classes are matched for dps and defence, where would the fun be in the game if all classes could do the same damage and all you had to do was press one key after another!

Or they count each number shown by the PDuelist as a separate shot instead of the continuously growing total tally, and then feel all high and mighty about their l33t Duelist damage. :P

Carighan (I wonder, the same Carighan that posted on WoW forums all those years ago? It cannae be) – while it is true that the classes are supposed to work in unison and that max damage is not always the way to go, do not forget that a lot of the time, a player may run around solo. If the class were bad at soloing, this would be a problem. Luckily, Mesmers aren’t bad at soloing and a lot about them is preconceptions based on specific builds. For instance, people traiting into phantasm build will of course have bad burst, but that has nothing to do with the class, it has to do with how they chose to specialize in it.

yes people are moaning because they see like a theif or a warrior kill something before them but they dont get that it takes a little longer for a mesmer to kill them, this does not mean they are worse just means you have to think a little more

People are actually moaning a bit because we have so many bugs, kittening some of our mechanics and making us unable to function properly in certain circumstances.

As for dieing as last one in a dungeon. Same here but this doesn’t mean I was actually being efficient there. With the actual status of our bugged healing on mantras and crappy design on our phantasm for the regeneration we already lose an important aspect we could bring to a group in a dungeon. Because we all have to be honnest that you don’t take a mesmer in a dungeon because of the Mesmer’s dps. There are much better toons out there for that job.

I understand that aNet devleopment has probably more important stuff to fix at the moment but the Mesmer is in need of some attention.

tufy.7859:

Carighan (I wonder, the same Carighan that posted on WoW forums all those years ago? It cannae be)

The Warlock named Carighan?
That’s me, yeah.

The Shaman named Carrigan, also. That’s why you might not have seen me since mid-TBC, mostly been frequently the Shaman and Healer forums instead of the Warlock ones. Switched because Warlock turned further and further away from a support-focused debuffer and towards a “simple” DPSer, and well, Shamans were needed in Ab Aeterno.

tufy.7859:

- while it is true that the classes are supposed to work in unison and that max damage is not always the way to go, do not forget that a lot of the time, a player may run around solo.

No I know, but even for soloing – or maybe even especially there – I’d argue that a max-DPS build is more hurting than beneficial. Yes it looks great, but while WoW has all conditioned us to think the following pattern:

1. Are you a Tank? The more EH you have, the better you are.
2. Are you a Healer? The more you can heal, the better you are.
3. Anything else? The more and bigger the numbers above the enemy head, the better.

I think GW2 doesn’t really work this way. I tried it, it is doable, but while it feels stronger due to the numbers you see, it feels weaker due to how unstable it becomes.
At least in direct comparison, a more balanced setup which trades some offence for a lot of interrupts can handle dungeons, solo and PvP so much better simply because I can genuinely disrupt 50%-75% of the incoming damage and it’ll never hit me. The whole pressure to burn everything down ASAP disappears. Especially in dungeons, but solo-PvE isn’t that much different really. Once you know the animations, locking down enemies and avoiding ~100% of the damage is really easy. Especially since, once an enemy is focused on us, we can play to our Distortion-Strength.

nidwin.6731:

As for dieing as last one in a dungeon. Same here but this doesn’t mean I was actually being efficient there. With the actual status of our bugged healing on mantras and crappy design on our phantasm for the regeneration we already lose an important aspect we could bring to a group in a dungeon. Because we all have to be honnest that you don’t take a mesmer in a dungeon because of the Mesmer’s dps.

You shouldn’t take anyone for their DPS, at least to a dungeon.
The reason we die last is because unlike the other people in the group we worries for a split-second about our self defence. We tend to, since we are so good at it and it’s everywhere on our stuff (just look at Shatters or Blurred Frenzy).

Contrary to that, plenty other players just stand&nuke, expecting to burn down the enemy before it burns them down. They’re the ones who survive fights with 5% HP left or after hitting the floor thrice, and who complain that they again lost 2 gold and 2 hours on a dungeon and kept having to grave-zerg the boss.
Get them to actually play more defensive, and you do entire dungeons where the worst which happens is someone getting downed from jumping down too far at a ledge. It’s amazing how much survivability Interrupts + Dodges + Invulnerabilities provide if everyone uses them and splits the task between them.

it’s funny, My character is necro, ppl complain how nacro skills are trash in nacro thread, then I checked Ele thread and found complaint about how weak Ele in pve, then come to Mesmer thread and found out Mesmer’s whine as well. So I stop going to other profession thread :/

sazaw.1347:

it’s funny, My character is necro, ppl complain how nacro skills are trash in nacro thread, then I checked Ele thread and found complaint about how weak Ele in pve, then come to Mesmer thread and found out Mesmer’s whine as well. So I stop going to other profession thread :/

That’s exactly my point, it’s just as with every other MMO, everyone whines how their class is clearly the weakest, and how the devs hate their class specifically. :P

Carighan
It’s a known fact but that’s not the issue here.

I spent a lot of karma, gold when I could finaly respec to have some healing abilities available once lvl 60. I needed some healing power stuff and so on. Just to find out that our healing is kittened, bugged.
I think that’s one of the main reasons peeps are moaning a bit. Too many bugged or inacurate stuff. (skills, traits, tooltips, not stacking, not working and so on)

I just thnk we need a few tweaks… And a Better way to tag mobs in Orr…

I don’t think our healing is bugged, is it?
It works as advertised, for all three abilities.

Oh, sec, edit, traits.
Yeah, those are bugged. Phantasmal one is weird, but I also wouldn’t just want a straight buff without first limiting Phantasms to 1 or something, it’d just further – and quite substantially – promote 3-Phantasm gameplay which essentially disables the class-mechanic (and I see the problem with being able to have 3 Phantasms, not with the Shatter mechanic :P ).
Likewise the heal-on-shatter is weird. It doesn’t scale with # shattered, it doesn’t seem to scale at all. Not even with healing power. Probably bugged.

Also our mantra healing trait isn’t working. Some said it heals on recharge but even that’s not working.

anyway

Mesmers are great at somethings and suck at others.

They lack burst aoe dps and so its difficult to reliably get good contribution rewards or kill credit in PVP and PVE.

They are an incredibly fun class to play and really very effective when played well, however all is not rosy and some things need looking at. To be honest the class is fine, its the contribution system that needs chucking out and reworking from scratch.

Ironically, the forums of all the other professions are all full of similar whining. So the mesmer isn’t alone.

Aside from a few minor issues, mesmer is fine, learn to play.

Cameirus.8407:

They lack burst aoe dps and so its difficult to reliably get good contribution rewards or kill credit in PVP and PVE.

No they don’t.. plenty of AOE damage on GS+Staff+Shatters… think we might even have the most AOE damage of all classes. Can’t remember the last time I didn’t have gold contribution in an event.

The Shaman named Carrigan, also. That’s why you might not have seen me since mid-TBC, mostly been frequently the Shaman and Healer forums instead of the Warlock ones.

Oh, I’ve seen you, as I’ve played a shammy too – Nathaira. We meet again

At least in direct comparison, a more balanced setup which trades some offence for a lot of interrupts can handle dungeons, solo and PvP so much better simply because I can genuinely disrupt 50%-75% of the incoming damage and it’ll never hit me.

Absolutely, that’s one of the reasons I didn’t trust double sword build at first – Focus with Warden’s Feedback is REALLY powerful avoidance tool. However, a steady stream of clones and less reliance on phantasms tends to work out better for me.

Anyway, I’d argue that most of the nasty damage can be avoided through good gameplay and a wee bit of creative thinking. For instance, not only does every class have at least one ability that cures conditions, but they ALL have abilities that remove conditions on nearby allies, regardless of specialization. We have the ability to swap utilities for a reason after all. Granted, the first time learning a place can be a bit tricky, as you don’t know what to expect, but the next time you’re in there, things tend to go much better. And frankly, I wouldn’t have it any other way

the worst which happens is someone getting downed from jumping down too far at a ledge.

/remembers yesterday… :p

tufy.7859:

Oh, I’ve seen you, as I’ve played a shammy too – Nathaira. We meet again

It’s amazing how small the world can be. :P

Docmandu.2914:

Cameirus.8407:

They lack burst aoe dps and so its difficult to reliably get good contribution rewards or kill credit in PVP and PVE.

No they don’t.. plenty of AOE damage on GS+Staff+Shatters… think we might even have the most AOE damage of all classes. Can’t remember the last time I didn’t have gold contribution in an event.

yes they do, Aoe takes at least a few secs to set up, cast chaos storm cast illuisions, shatter (with ru in time).

We have pretty pathetic aoe compared to warriors, thiefs, elementalist, engineers, guardains…

Dont be in denial.
Also you must be on a really low pop server to always get gold, Heavy aoe will kills stuff before you can shatter an the 25stack limit on conditions will cap your possible dps.

Like I said I dont really think its a Mesmer issue though, its the problem wiht the really bad contribution system.

Cameirus.8407:

Like I said I dont really think its a Mesmer issue though, its the problem wiht the really bad contribution system.

Yeah I agree, this is not something I’d like to see fixed on the Mesmer side, because that’d mean the devs then sit down and ignore the actual issue. :P

Problem is that you need to damage mobs to tag them, and only damage is extrapolated to contribution level.
Which is… well…

I should be fine doing nothing but rezzing people dying, assuming I find enough for it. I could have done so at the Claw encounter earlier, np, plenty people were on the floor all the time.
If I want to contribute that way, I should be eligible for credit!

I should be fine spending my time debuffing single high-power Veterans in the large packs. I should not be required to spread abilities out to the small ones, I am already contributing and pushing buttons like mad!

I should grab nearby environmental weapons and using them, even if they are mobile shield projectors like in the Dredge zone!

And that is what needs fixing. We need an activity-based proximity contribution system. You were nearby, you were active, you get credit. Based on what % of time you were active and what % of time you spent close to the encounter.

This is strange as I always end with gold in a DE, except if I show up at the end.

And my contribution doesn’t come from high damage or kills.

Dunning Kruger effect…From the view of poor players, It’s always never their fault…and they mostly think they are better than what they are…hence it must be the class or something else.

Cameirus.8407:

Docmandu.2914:

Cameirus.8407:

They lack burst aoe dps and so its difficult to reliably get good contribution rewards or kill credit in PVP and PVE.

No they don’t.. plenty of AOE damage on GS+Staff+Shatters… think we might even have the most AOE damage of all classes. Can’t remember the last time I didn’t have gold contribution in an event.

yes they do, Aoe takes at least a few secs to set up, cast chaos storm cast illuisions, shatter (with ru in time).

We have pretty pathetic aoe compared to warriors, thiefs, elementalist, engineers, guardains…

Dont be in denial.
Also you must be on a really low pop server to always get gold, Heavy aoe will kills stuff before you can shatter an the 25stack limit on conditions will cap your possible dps.

Like I said I dont really think its a Mesmer issue though, its the problem wiht the really bad contribution system.

Farshiverpeaks.. yeps low pop server lol… anyway guess you must be doing something wrong then… chaos storm, switch GS, iberzerker, mirror blade (with extra bounce), wave, mind stab.. casting all those takes very little time.. if stuff is still alive, shatter… rinse and repeat…. gold contribution guaranteed, even with 50 people around.

Farshiverpeaks.. yeps low pop server lol… anyway guess you must be doing something wrong then… chaos storm, switch GS, iberzerker, mirror blade (with extra bounce), wave, mind stab.. casting all those takes very little time.. if stuff is still alive, shatter… rinse and repeat…. gold contribution guaranteed, even with 50 people around.

FWIW I’ve never not had a Gold completion (not unless I’ve come very late to the party, e.g. when a Champion just has an inch of health or whatever). If I’m there from the beginning, or even come in at 3/4 health bar (say), I always get Gold, no matter how many people are there.

Again, the key to the Mesmer is that it is a very busy playstyle. If you’re not pressing a lot of keys in quick succession constantly, you’re doing it wrong. The class is meant for people who prefer to do with lots of keypresses what other classes can do with one or two

The mantra healing trait works, but it is close to useless due to the extremely short range on it. For me, at the time of testing it (level 80 but with crappy gear), it healed for approx 2600. This is just to give you a rough estimation on the amount.

It’s not broken, but it deffinately would need a buff.

Docmandu.2914:

Cameirus.8407:

Docmandu.2914:

Cameirus.8407:

They lack burst aoe dps and so its difficult to reliably get good contribution rewards or kill credit in PVP and PVE.

No they don’t.. plenty of AOE damage on GS+Staff+Shatters… think we might even have the most AOE damage of all classes. Can’t remember the last time I didn’t have gold contribution in an event.

yes they do, Aoe takes at least a few secs to set up, cast chaos storm cast illuisions, shatter (with ru in time).

We have pretty pathetic aoe compared to warriors, thiefs, elementalist, engineers, guardains…

Dont be in denial.
Also you must be on a really low pop server to always get gold, Heavy aoe will kills stuff before you can shatter an the 25stack limit on conditions will cap your possible dps.

Like I said I dont really think its a Mesmer issue though, its the problem wiht the really bad contribution system.

Farshiverpeaks.. yeps low pop server lol… anyway guess you must be doing something wrong then… chaos storm, switch GS, iberzerker, mirror blade (with extra bounce), wave, mind stab.. casting all those takes very little time.. if stuff is still alive, shatter… rinse and repeat…. gold contribution guaranteed, even with 50 people around.

Farshiverpeaks.. yeps low pop server lol… anyway guess you must be doing something wrong then… chaos storm, switch GS, iberzerker, mirror blade (with extra bounce), wave, mind stab.. casting all those takes very little time.. if stuff is still alive, shatter… rinse and repeat…. gold contribution guaranteed, even with 50 people around.

with 50 people you wouldn’t be able to get a shatter off due to your target already being dead, stop bullkitten and leave your dreamworld where you think mesmers are perfect since every class has its flaws

Syn.3459:

with 50 people you wouldn’t be able to get a shatter off due to your target already being dead, stop bullkitten and leave your dreamworld where you think mesmers are perfect since every class has its flaws

Maybe read before trying to be rude….

“if stuff is still alive, shatter”

Docmandu.2914:

Syn.3459:

with 50 people you wouldn’t be able to get a shatter off due to your target already being dead, stop bullkitten and leave your dreamworld where you think mesmers are perfect since every class has its flaws

Maybe read before trying to be rude….

“if stuff is still alive, shatter”

i’d say the same to you, i said you wouldn’t even be able to get a shatter off because your target would already be dead, if you’d like i’ll also add “let alone do your rotation”

with 50 people you wouldn’t be able to get a shatter off due to your target already being dead, stop bullkitten and leave your dreamworld where you think mesmers are perfect since every class has its flaws

My Shatters begin instantly because I have Illusory Persona.

Good game son.

Mesmer AoE:

-Shatters traited to always inflict confusion. Mass confusion = good damage.
-Traits into Inspiration for 20% cd reduction on focus skills
-Rezzing allies give feedback bubble, enough to protect and provide a combo field for confusion finishers
-Phantasmal Berserker AoE cripple and deals 3k dmg every ~6 seconds (+/- 0.4 seconds) (20% phantasm attack speed)
-Phantasmal Warden deals 7k dmg in a small field, reflects projectiles, and grants protection (33% damage reduction). + Phantasmal Berserker, you can kite mobs around the Warden and keep very nice damage output.
-Temporal Curtain is an excellent cripple and knockback.. proper placement can pull mobs back to your Phantasmal Warden for easy AoE setup.
-On bosses, stacking 3 x Phantasmal Wardens + Time Warp = Rapage.
-5 points into illusions gives you 20% reduction on illusion skills..
-Signet of illusions gives you 50% increase health to phantasms
-10 pts into inspiration gives your phantasms 20% more health.

Durable phantasms that deal massive damage, cripple, and reflect and grant protection anyone? Heck if you wanted to, they would even give you a endless refresh of regeneration with traits into inspiration.

-Phantasmal Berserker AoE cripple and deals 3k dmg every 6 seconds (20% phantasm attack speed)

It’s every 6s without that trait, so faster with.

I don’t like the mesmer (at least the starting) masks.

Helberus.4320:

-5 pts into inspiration gives your phantasms 20% more health.

That’s a 10 point trait. 5 pointer is retaliation off the top of my head.

Thalzion.1378:

I don’t like the mesmer (at least the starting) masks.

The tailored “Acolyte” masks are pretty good.

I like the Order of Whispers set. Pretty ninja. More like an Arabian Knight style though.

I have a great time when grouped with people running dungeons with my mesmer. I made my mesmer to be all supporty so I don’t put out the best damage all the time but I sure as hell can make sure myself and my group stay alive as long as possible.

Mesmer is amazing and definitely not underpowered.

To be fair, I have hardly seen people who claimed it was underpowered, only people who pointed out a problem with a skill or mechanic.

EasymodeX.4062:

Helberus.4320:

-5 pts into inspiration gives your phantasms 20% more health.

That’s a 10 point trait. 5 pointer is retaliation off the top of my head.

Yes, you’re correct. Edited post.

EasymodeX.4062:

-Phantasmal Berserker AoE cripple and deals 3k dmg every 6 seconds (20% phantasm attack speed)

It’s every 6s without that trait, so faster with.

Is the wiki wrong?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Berserker

Says 7 seconds without and 6 with.

Hmm, dunno. When I timed them, I counted 6 for iB/iWarlock/iD, 4 for iS.

iB is slightly trickier to time since you need to ensure you time from the same part of the animation. Don’t know if whoever provided that wiki info timed precisely, or if they pulled data from another source.

I could be mistaken, but the part that makes me dubious is the “7 → 6”. A 20% cooldown on 7s is 5.6s, not 6.0s. Game doesn’t round for those things, and there’s no reason to round for the wiki info.

EasymodeX.4062:

Hmm, dunno. When I timed them, I counted 6 for iB/iWarlock/iD, 4 for iS.

iB is slightly trickier to time since you need to ensure you time from the same part of the animation. Don’t know if whoever provided that wiki info timed precisely, or if they pulled data from another source.

I could be mistaken, but the part that makes me dubious is the “7 -> 6”. A 20% cooldown on 7s is 5.6s, not 6.0s. Game doesn’t round for those things, and there’s no reason to round for the wiki info.

We’ll say ~6.0 for iB. +/- .04 seconds

Thalzion.1378:

I don’t like the mesmer (at least the starting) masks.

I don’t like my poo, because it’s smelly..

A profession is much more than it’s appearance…

But if it’s 6.0 base, then -20% would be 4.8s :O.

I love my mesmer, you can really do some very clever things with this class but you have to think about what you are doing. The longer people think it’s underpowered and under-estimate them, that’s better for me lol.

I won’t go into details of things I’ve done, but I have won 3v1’s in WvW and 2v1’s in sPvP and if I catch you alone somewhere, your gonna die

I fight against mesmers all the time. They are so powerful in PVP it’s not even funny. pve though? they suck.

I hate when people get SO defensive of the class they play:

“OMGWTF we’re not weak STkittenU you just suck!!!11!!11!!”

Learning about a class comes with recognizing both the strengths AND weaknesses. We have great control, escapes, debuffs, and single target DPS however AOE burst is definitely not up to par. The key is being able to realize the weakness and address it, like learning to use the warden effectively when you need to AOE or picking certain talents to make up for it. But outright denying a weakness is there is just…sad.

I find the mesmer to be a fascinating prof and very powerful. I started leveling this after I got my engineer to 80. I am contemplating scrapping the engineer because Mesmer is so much more fun and more powerful. I find with GS/Staff that I can destroy things fairly quickly and I have a ton of survivability.

I actually picked this class up because so many on here were saying it was a weak prof and I wanted to see if it was really that bad. It isn’t. This prof takes a little to ramp up but then it just unloads.

lol at newbs telling others to l2p