Guild Wars 2

Had a couple friends doing a dungeon and one of them says man we picked up a mesmer. So then I was like what is wrong with a mesmer and he said they arent good dungeon dps. Where is this negative connotation coming from? This is actually what I dont like to see in a game where the player base alienates a specific class.

If it’s story mode then it shouldn’t really matter. But as a mesmer I won’t do explorable modes because I feel like it’s unfair to my party to do so.

Mesmers have bad damage and weak utility, and weaker control.

then it seems they need some love in this area

I ran CM explorable and didn’t feel like I was kittening my party. Is it possible that an ineffective trait set up was being used?

If the mesmer in your party isnt doing his/her job then they are likely doing it wrong.
Its not a straight forward class like a faceroll warrior/guard.

Saying they are a poor support class is just down right incorrect. Null field removing all conditions from your party and all boons from your foes.. plus being a Combo field. TImewarp increases DPS, Feedback reflects all ranged DPS back to the targets and is also a combo field. Chaos storm buffs everyone and does good damage .. and is also a combo field, hounds of Balthazar – amazing Direct and AOE damage…. want me to continue?

Mesmer is NOT bad damage .. and is NOT a weak utility

A substantial amount of that is ignorance. The way the mesmer assists the party is not always overt and the party needs to work with the Mesmer to achieve the full effect. I cannot even begin to count the times I’ve thrown down time warp or null field only to have my party instinctively run out the giant pink bubble, even after I explain it to them. Then we also have fantastic party mitigation tools like the Illusionary Warden that many people do not realize deflects projectiles and can shut down ranged mobs entirely.

As for raw DPS, the mesmer has to work harder to keep up the pace, and in the chaos of inexperienced groups, that becomes exceedingly difficult.

just to clarify i have not done dungeons, but have noticed in doing world events like shatterer the dragon that raw dps is missing. for instance, i did the dragon start to finish and got no credit because I didnt do enough dps, even tho I was summoning illusions summoning etc. I dunno just seems to me regular dd spells need some love.

Also as far as illusionary warden goes i think i would like it more if it wasnt off doing its own thing aoeing nothing instead of going to a target, tho the reflect is nice I suppose

The warden is all about positioning. I hate when I get it set up just right and someone knocks the mob away or pulls it away from the warden. Then I have to figure out some way to bring it back, assuming those abilities aren’t on cooldown.

yea, I just read someone saying stunning the target or rooting etc will help with warden dps which is a good idea. I pretty always have focus out since it is our only speed

Mesmer damage is good once the ball is rolling and they have all their Phantasms out.
Fights with frequent and constant AoE they tend to under perform due to Phantasms dying too fast.

Also with Blink and Portal they can assist players with dungeon traps if the player is having trouble. Blink makes some things quite easy too (disarming traps in AC for example, and avoiding crushers in SE)

Feedback is invaluable in some fights. The fire golem boss in SE will occasionally fire missles out in all directions, and with a feedback on him they ALL reflect back for 4000 or so damage 16 times, while also saving your friends who can have respite from a barrage.

They could use some more front-loaded damage (nerf Phantasms, buff Mesmer abilities) but they’re fine.

Also Time Warp is very helpful.

Illusionary Warden just wrecks some ranged mobs. He does tons of damage on his own, and they try to shoot at/through him and everything just gets reflected back, protecting your team and killing the mobs faster.

When someone goes “You do low damage, that’s bad for dungeons”, you should leave.

Wowthink needs to be squashed out right away.
I’d argue that glasscannon people (which are oddly enough nearly always 100% identical with the set of people who argue that their damage is high for dungeons or why someone else’s is too low) are the real problem to dungeon runs. Sure they do nice damage. 20% of the time, the rest they are locked due to spamming defensive maneuvers or are on the floor and need to be helped up.

You can much rather take someone doing 25%-35% less damage and genuinely not only staying alive well, but also helping their team stay alive. Interrupts, reflects and controlling moves are what makes you efficient in PvE Dungeons, not damage. Damage is for people who played too much WoW and can’t get out of the thought pattern of each class having 1 metric only.

Well our GS just got buffed, so our DPS is going to be a lot better. Let you friend know.

I play a mesmer and have done some explorables (mainly Sorrow’s Embrace). My fastest explorable run was with a group of 2 mesmers, an elementalist, a warrior and a guardian (Sorrow’s Embrace about 32min). I can agree that mesmer has kind of a “bad damage” for some fights because you don’t have the time to setup phantasms. For boss fights when you have 3 phantasms up your dps is good.

I personally run with sword/focus + staff, a lot of CDR traits, Blink, Nullfield and Phantasmal Disenchanter/Illusion of Life, which is a great support skill, someone goes down near the boss -> you can revive them instantly and get them of the boss. Although this needs coordination because the one who has been revived can’t see a 15s timer/buff called Illusion of Life. Time Warp is also great, as addressed here before, because it buffs your teams overall DPS by about 50% for 10s every 3.5 minutes. Oh and also the Temporal Curtain and Warden reflects projectiles if traited (OP against ranged mobs).

Mesmers are amazing in Dungeons. Null Field, Feedback, Time Warp, Moa, Illusion of Life and Chaos Storm are all incredible skills for dungeon parties.

It isn’t all about DPS…

I call complete bullcrap. Mesmer DIRECT damage might not be in the highest league with Warriors or Thieves, but their Condition damage is extremely high. Sharper Images while spamming Staff 1 covers you for both Bleeds/Burns, the odd vulnerability you get from it also helps the rest of the crew who is running direct damage. Compared to Guardians who get burns 1/5 hits or Engineers (33% on crit) Mesmers have an extremely high uptime on Burns.

With no investments in power, iWarlock can still crit for upwards of 3.5k+ at level 80. Seeing as your source of damage are your illusions, your damage also does not completely fall off when you need to assist and revive someone like other classes would.

Null Field is night and day better than any of the Necromancer’s wells. Null Field has its effects triggered right away, while Well of Suffering/Corruption do it one by one over 5 seconds. It’s ground targetable and has a lower cool down EVEN if the Necromancer grabbing the -20% recharge trait. Necromancers have to invest in two major traits (ground target/recharge) to even make their wells slightly comparable.

Not to mention Time Warp is the longest duration Quickness in the game (10s) that has absolutely NO DRAWBACKS. Haste removes all endurance/regen from the thief, Quickening Zephyr does not allow the Ranger to receive any heals, the Warrior takes 50% more damage during Frenzy.

I love mesmers in my groups. Good thing my buddy plays one!

Been running a GS/Sword+pistol build for explorable modes and quite frankly, my damage is just fine, my support is even better tho.

Before today obviously the GS was pretty horrible when it came to dealing damage, but it shines when it comes to preventing it. Get 1 or 2 phantasmal berserkers up and keep knocking the opponent back and they wont get close to your team.

And if damage is more your forte, then why not throw up 3x duelists with the +cause bleed trait, on 75 they’re dishing out a rough 2-2.5k damage a piece, not counting the damage from the bleeds.

Combine that with the moa morph, the time warp, the null field…
Not to mention the not-so-secret function of signet of inspiration; Get aegis, protection or regeneration, activate the signet, suddenly your entire team has a bucketload of extra survivability.

As a mesmer you wont be seeing those gigantic numbers of other classes but you are most certainly a valuable asset to your team, asuming you put some work into it

Kahzee

Let me say this to you.
Thosekitten that dare to say this kind of garbage don’t deserve to have a mesmer in their group.
Don’t let it get to you.

Mesmer is a beast and this in every aspect of the game.

My single target damage seems to do well. I find myself lacking in aoe situatoins, but that could either be just a thing mesmers have to deal with or the dungeons are just way overtuned for those situations.

TA explorable, there is one part I hate with a passion. Killing those blasted Flowers as a Mesmer. The only useful weapon to destroy those things safely is the scepter. G.Sword can work, but you have to be at max range to kill them off the fastest but then you have to run past where they are …

On Mesmers in a group?
I.Wardens on Ranged Bosses. Well, now there are safe spots for allies to stand behind and not worry about getting hit. The fact its going to deal nice dmg and bleeds is just a bonus.
Feedback, for when I.Warden is down or for large shot spread.
Staff Clone Spam, Buffing Melee players with a metric load of Mights and Furies along with various conditions on the enemy.
Chaos Storm – Aegis. Aegis. Aegis. Repeatedly for any ally standing in the storm. That alone is worthwhile, but doesn’t even touch the other boons/benefits and conditions to the enemy.
Time Warp – Watch an enemy get ripped apart. Especially nice if you catch yourself and 3 sword clones in the field. Stacking 25 Vulnerability is just helpful as you watch a target’s health drop.
Reviving Allies. Have a couple Phantasms out, and it isn’t so bad for the Mesmer to turn around and focus on pulling allies to their feet. Combine with the simple 10 point Inspiration trait, and you can even put down a Feedback field on yourself and ally when you do so. (And can do so again every 10 seconds.) The fact you are still doing dmg and stacking bleeds with those Phantasms, means its much less of an opportunity cost for you then for another ally to do the same.

Absorbing Hits. Any attack that targets and destroys a Clone, rather then hurting an ally, is beneficial. Depending on the build, destroying said clone can lead to Cripple (great for kiting), Confusion (Eh), or Random Condition of Weakness (Yay), Vulnerability x3 (Yay), or Bleeding x3(Hmmm).

One thing I’m still trying to decide on, is if I do want to keep Clones cripple nearby enemies on death. Why?
With those same 10 points, I can put them further in the Inspiration trait line. That means, my Phantasms pass out Regeneration. And that I can pass out healing to allies nearby when I recharge a Mantra.
Mantra of Recovery + Mender’s Purity is great when you know you are facing conditions you need to cure off yourself (And Null Field has too long of a CD for yourself). Condition gone when you charge it and Condition gone when you use the Healing part twice. Then tack on Restorative Mantras when in a group, and you heal allies (And self) when you recharge the Mantra to heal yourself.
-The amount Mender’s Purity heals is just a little less then what the Mantra itself heals per shot.

Anyone who says anything negative about Mesmers obviously hasn’t met mine.

Unless its something along the lines of “Those stupid Mesmers are always carrying the team. Why can’t I do that?”

The staff spams so many conditions with clones + the extra bounce to the point where party members will be greatful seeing all those boons on them and vulnerability stacks building up on mobs with a single action.

I really dont understand how the presence of feedback, time warp, null-field or illusion of life in the skillset deems the mesmer as having poor utility; heck that feedback rez trait works especially well with a blink and a distortion shatter for a safe revive in dangerous circumstances.

Mesmers Combo fields are some of the most spammable, too.

Mesmer has a long setup time but formidable utilities for you and your group, incredible survivability and in the end, can deal a crapload of damages once the ball is rolling.

This is what it does on a fight that doesn’t pose any threat to your illusions:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9gFSOuD6V8

And even if you can’t keep all of them alive, they’re pretty easy to replace.
I just wish we had another ranged main hand like the scepter but without the clone generation.

I’m all for a mesmer buff – particularly under level 50 or so.

After that we’re bordering overpowered.

Lol.. if you’r a mesmer and you think you suck at DPSing/Supporting…

Lol.. if you’r a mesmer and you think you suck at DPSing/Supporting…you should really play something else..

Lol.. if you’r a mesmer and you think you suck at DPSing/Supporting…you should really play something else..Mesmers are a perfect combination of Everything.. surviability/DPS/support..
most of my dungeon runs contain 2 mesmers.. me and a friend.. and we never wipe.. we did a bunch of different explorable modes yesterday for the achievments.. and they were all flawless.. even being our first times..

Lol.. if you’r a mesmer and you think you suck at DPSing/Supporting…you should really play something else..Mesmers are a perfect combination of Everything.. surviability/DPS/support..
most of my dungeon runs contain 2 mesmers.. me and a friend.. and we never wipe.. we did a bunch of different explorable modes yesterday for the achievments.. and they were all flawless.. even being our first times..it doesnt even matter what build you go.. either Cond dmg or Straight up POWER/agility.. ur phantasm can do all the dmg for you.. while u support with fields and stuff.. lol

Bad players are bad, good players are good.

End of discussion.

Explore moding just fine with 3 mesmers, a guardian, and a warrior. We all use staff too.

No one dies and we’re done in time for dinner o.o

Understanding how to synergize with other professions and with each other is important. So much butterfly spam though lol.

I think we beat every other class at our own survivability too. Plenty of tricks in this hat to come out alive.

Ironically I do most damage out of the people in the parties I’m with when I use my One-handed sword + Pistol combination. I have 30 points in Domination, 20 in Inspiration and 15 atm in Dueling. According to the tooltips in comparison to the other people in my group that weapon combination + traits does more if not double the damage they do.

That being said it’s a tricky weapon set to use and definitely doesn’t work for all encounters. I always bring with me a one-handed sword, pistol, scepter, focus, greatsword and staff and swap between them when required.

All the other weapons don’t do as much damage in general unless you trait towards a specific weapon such as phantasms for a staff or scepter for shattering/condition damage it’ll take a bit for the damage to build up but it’s more consistent (That is if your phantasms don’t get destroyed etc.).

Also with 20 points in inspiration I contribute to the fight by healing my allies and myself by selecting the trait ‘Heal allies when casting a mantra’ and while reviving to use the feedback bubble. I use Mantra of pain and it heals for a fair amount myself and those near me when it’s finished casting. Then when using the ‘Activate mantras three times’ trait you can do some big instant damage right after.

Then there’s the many CC’s we have. Like Temporal curtain with the slows/speed up and pull back for focus, Shattering for clone spamming scepter which also makes a nice distraction for mobs, Stunning/dazing/blinding with pistol, greatsword has the knockback and range, staff with chaos storm, one handed sword with its vulnerabilities and cripple effects. The list is endless.

Not to mention slot skills like Feedback, Null field, Illusion of life etc.

The downside of Mesmers are that each weapon and slot skill abilities have quite specific situational uses and therefor in explorables it sometimes takes a wipe before the Mesmer knows what to expect and can adjust weapons/skills/traits accordingly.

Mesmers are probably the hardest profession to master and require a lot of thought, situational awareness, last second decision making, fast reaction time, deep understanding of your many weapon choices/skill abilities + traits. They are squishy and weak unless played properly and even then it can be difficult.

Don’t judge the profession, Judge the individual Mesmers. There are many bad ones, A few good ones and the good ones are really something else.

I’m a Mesmer, and in ever single Dgn. I’ve done, I been a major control if not the only one.

For example, In AC with the lovers. I kept the guy to the side the entire time, he could not get to her at all. I kept him focus only on me.

In Ta as another example, at the nerc boss, I was able to keep all poi spiders to the side. So my team could focus more on boss(trust me if ya done it you know, the spiders is the only real hard part of the fight) and then at the end of that dgn. I kept Logan, golem and rack busy. While team killed the 2 long rang. However even through I was mostly pulling them. I got there hp pretty low.

So no, as a mesmer I do major control in a dgn and my damage not to bad.

Sword/focus and gs

Strange, my 80 Mesmer carries teams in dungeons, and I have been complimented with how balanced my spec is between DPS/toughness/crowd control. I solo things that make warriors weep.

I am sick of players spreading around false information that leads to great p,ayers having to beg for teams.

They obviously haven’t played with a good mesmer.

I think the stigma comes from GW1. Apparently, Mesmers sucked in PVE there.

But yeah, Mesmer is a class that stands in the back and throws down AOE support and single target damage.

It may also depend on your race. I play an Asura Mesmer, and I tend to use a lot of racials in dungeons.

Eh? If anything a mesmer makes dungeons much easier… Your friend is clueless or only played with bad mesmers.

Suzut.4905:

I think the stigma comes from GW1. Apparently, Mesmers sucked in PVE there.

But yeah, Mesmer is a class that stands in the back and throws down AOE support and single target damage.

It may also depend on your race. I play an Asura Mesmer, and I tend to use a lot of racials in dungeons.

It’s not so much Mesmers sucked in PvE GW1, it’s more or less the same thing. People don’t “get” or understand Mesmers back then or even now. Good Mesmers made sure foes fell on their heels and tripped over themselves. They weren’t exactly the most flashy and it wasn’t easy to tell what they were doing. Monks kept your bars green while you saw Elementalists raining meteors down on fools.

Mesmers? They twirled around with purple light around them..and what happens? Most people didn’t bother understanding them and usually just went with the obvious TANK (Warrior) HEALS (Monk) and NUKES! (Ele) in their PvE groups for the longest time. It’s a shame they’re really the unsung heroes.

I play a Charr sword/pistol—Greatsword Mesmer.
Traited as a hybrid Phantasm/clone factory condition shatter build.

I spend a majority of time in melee range of targets that are extremely scary to other players. Because I have become spot on with my dodging, trained to have nearly perma vigor, I know when to use sword distortion, shatter distortion, and stuns to protect myself in melee.

My shatters are also constantly refilling my HP as well, on top of the incidental regen my phantasms provide.

I have tanked Lt. Kholer, was instrumental on the fire golem in Sorrows Embrace, And made the necro fight a joke on twilight Arbor.

Just like any class the difference between a amateur and a well played trained one is stark.

The other Charr used to laugh at her in the fahrar for Taking to a “weak” profession, they all want her in their warband now.

Yeah I am unhappy with the mesmer. There is so much juggling involved, constantly respawning phantasms, gettingkitten everytime a clone overwrites a phantasm. The clunky nature of having to all the time respawn my “pets”.

Having them die when the enemy dies….krappy DPS with anything other than pistol in offhand and then I have to use the lame scepter which overwrites my phantasms at a greater rate. I wish I had rolled something else…I did not want a micro manage pet class…I did not think it would turn into that.

Reroll as a ranger?

Mesmers are the assassins of Guild Wars 2 minus the popularity.
A ton of terrible players give mesmers a bad reputation, then complain that the mesmer is underpowered.

It’s ok, maybe it will result in a hilarious mesmer buff, ANet tends to overbuff.

Cromx.3941:

Yeah I am unhappy with the mesmer. There is so much juggling involved, constantly respawning phantasms, gettingkitten everytime a clone overwrites a phantasm. The clunky nature of having to all the time respawn my “pets”.

Having them die when the enemy dies….krappy DPS with anything other than pistol in offhand and then I have to use the lame scepter which overwrites my phantasms at a greater rate. I wish I had rolled something else…I did not want a micro manage pet class…I did not think it would turn into that.

Yeah that’s the whole point, it’s a moderately heavy micro-management class and if you’re not into micro-management you won’t enjoy it. But if you do, there’s no substitute

I was reminded recently about how it’s like a Loremaster in LOTRO. Those had a similar stigma, also heavy micro-management, and definitely not a class for everybody. But boy, if you mastered it, you could do ANYTHING.

I actually played a loremaster in LOTR and loved it. You actually had awesome support skills were quite powerful if played correctly. It was REWARDING to play. That is the big difference. A good loremaster was a awesome addition to a party. The mesmer is woefully underpowered, to reach any kind of reasonable parity with other classes, you have to micro manage and deal with the clunky and annoying clone/phantasm system….the mesmer is completely unrewarding.

I run a good mesmer, but I have zero support skills that mean anything. I also played a bard in EQ1 I played a healing paladin and priest in WoW. I always gravitate for the complex classes….but when you are outclassed or barely reach parity with classes that just button mash that is not rewarding at all.

This is the problem with mesmers,. in PVE they are mediocre played to their fullest potential. And you have to deal with a lame pet system….like seriously clones overwrite phantasms? And its on the default attack? WHY? I mean common….this class needs some serious work.

I do fine with dps. I think people have a hard time wrapping their head around what a Mesmer actually is capable of. Like several posters said; it’s not all about raw direct damage. Mesmer is like a jack of all trades, decent dmg, decent support and a helluva lotta fun to play.

Mesmer is the most unique class in-game, and many mesmer’s are having a hard time grasping the class, which spills over to others and becomes “mesmer are crap, reroll.”

If you are good and understand the mechanics you can keep up some great condition damage, and constantly have 3 illusions up.

Unfortunately it seems Mesmer is going to be frowned upon initially, but thats ok. All of us Mesmers are smiling in groups, because we are supporting /doing more than people realize.

Uhmmm…

http://youtu.be/Pdz7tPk4hfM

pixxpixx.8792:

Well our GS just got buffed, so our DPS is going to be a lot better. Let you friend know.

Really? What’d we get?

bleepbloop.8497:

pixxpixx.8792:

Well our GS just got buffed, so our DPS is going to be a lot better. Let you friend know.

Really? What’d we get?

It was fixed, it’s more responsive (starts and finishes quicker) as is mind stab.
And you’ll notice instead of doing 3 ticks of equal damage each will increase mine went from 215 > 215 >215 to 300 > 650 > 1000 (As an example)

Wow this is pure crap. Mesmers are usless in Explorable? Please learn to use your class. We dont have good dps, but we have so much utility skills that make dungeoneering easier. To name a few: Feedback, Nullfield, Illusion of Life, Mass Invisibility, etc.

Aww, no one’s even mentioned the illusionary defender yet! Seriously. Name one other skill in the game that takes HALF the damage of everyone around it and absorbs it itself. Throw that in with the regeneration trait and the disenchanter and you’ve got more support than most classes can put out that’ll be there even if you’re downed.
Mesmer is /harder/ to play than most classes. There’s no doubt over that. Arenanet even said they revealed classes in order from easiest to hardest and mesmer was notably the LAST to be revealed. That doesn’t make them bad. Just more fun to play.

Ey, I’m a mesmer and i do explorables all the time.
Mesmers don’t deal bad damage, not at all.
A 3clone Cry of frustration will devestate most trash packs, and for bosses you are the buff master.

A mesmer is one of those classes you really want in dungeons, life is just easier and more exciting with us around.

Vyl.7084:

bleepbloop.8497:

pixxpixx.8792:

Well our GS just got buffed, so our DPS is going to be a lot better. Let you friend know.

Really? What’d we get?

It was fixed, it’s more responsive (starts and finishes quicker) as is mind stab.
And you’ll notice instead of doing 3 ticks of equal damage each will increase mine went from 215 > 215 >215 to 300 > 650 > 1000 (As an example)

I noticed this. I was surprised that my GS’s auto-attack was actually putting out some decent DPS.