Guild Wars 2

thief steal got buffed.

stolen plasma not nerfed either.

RIP mesmers?

but looking at your changes…are you now actually greater than thieves?

EremiteAngel.9765:

thief steal got buffed.

stolen plasma not nerfed either.

RIP mesmers?

but looking at your changes…are you now actually greater than thieves?

Maybe?

They have forced thieves to go into S/D
So we will see how this plays out.
I’m kinda sad I didn’t make a second mesmer for this >_<

I don’t know, but Mesmers, Eles and Engis definitely got the best treatment. Praise Robert!

goldenwing.9654:

I don’t know, but Mesmers, Eles and Engis definitely got the best treatment. Praise Robert!

You are forgetting warriors. Which are ultra braindead now.

EremiteAngel.9765:

thief steal got buffed.

stolen plasma not nerfed either.

RIP mesmers?

but looking at your changes…are you now actually greater than thieves?

I main a thief for the past 3 years. After I saw the mesmer buffs, I’m dusting off my mesmer. Basically, phant and shatter will hit like a truck while having IP as base plus DE and PU. My build will be 6/6/6/0/0

Even though I don’t play mesmer and got no idea what those changes to you guys mean, I believe you guys.

the mesmer thread is overflowing with joy.
I’m happy for you mesmers. no longer going to get whipped by thieves.

No change on consume plasma is a bit sad.
Thieves can now trait Improvisation and have a freaking almost 100% uptime of all boons in game.
Hopefully this will prove to be too strong soon and gets nerfed.

I’m thinking that plasma was overlooked. It’s too hilariously strong to not get nerfed. They can literally get 100% uptime on all boons in the game except stab and retal, and those are 30% and 50% respectively. There’s no way it’s not getting nerfed. That’s not even a thief v mesmer thing, it’s a ‘if there’s a mesmer vs a thief, the thief is turbocharged the entire game’.

If you actually look through thief changes, they got quite buffed as well. So I am really not sure how it will turn out.

Does it matter. From the looks of it. We’ll all be trying to keep up to Engi’s as usual.

EDIT: I just realized something. With Improvisation and Consume Plasma, thieves will leave us for LAST. They’ll just keep stealing from us so they can down everyone else first. We don’t have to worry anymore. Its really a buff to Mesmer!

.. always look on the bright side of life…
https://youtu.be/WlBiLNN1NhQ

SlimChance.6593:

Does it matter. From the looks of it. We’ll all be trying to keep up to Engi’s as usual.

No it doesn’t he just has this weird sense of community. Where it’s okay to troll thieves and be nice to mesmers.

Daniel Handler.4816:

SlimChance.6593:

Does it matter. From the looks of it. We’ll all be trying to keep up to Engi’s as usual.

No it doesn’t he just has this weird sense of community. Where it’s okay to troll thieves and be nice to mesmers.

thieves hurt me a lot so…

90% of my deathrate is contributed by thieves.

something must be wrong with that class’s mechanics.

I pin pointed steal and shadow arts

SlimChance.6593:

Does it matter. From the looks of it. We’ll all be trying to keep up to Engi’s as usual.

EDIT: I just realized something. With Improvisation and Consume Plasma, thieves will leave us for LAST. They’ll just keep stealing from us so they can down everyone else first. We don’t have to worry anymore. Its really a buff to Mesmer!

.. always look on the bright side of life…
https://youtu.be/WlBiLNN1NhQ

That sounds about right. Next time I see a thief, i will just type in “Don’t kill me. I am your buff generator” in the chat.

Exciton.8942:

SlimChance.6593:

Does it matter. From the looks of it. We’ll all be trying to keep up to Engi’s as usual.

EDIT: I just realized something. With Improvisation and Consume Plasma, thieves will leave us for LAST. They’ll just keep stealing from us so they can down everyone else first. We don’t have to worry anymore. Its really a buff to Mesmer!

.. always look on the bright side of life…
https://youtu.be/WlBiLNN1NhQ

That sounds about right. Next time I see a thief, i will just type in “Don’t kill me. I am your buff generator” in the chat.

oh…they will kill you first alright…
mesmers now have immense potential to 1 hit KO any class, especially thieves.

EremiteAngel.9765:

Exciton.8942:

SlimChance.6593:

Does it matter. From the looks of it. We’ll all be trying to keep up to Engi’s as usual.

EDIT: I just realized something. With Improvisation and Consume Plasma, thieves will leave us for LAST. They’ll just keep stealing from us so they can down everyone else first. We don’t have to worry anymore. Its really a buff to Mesmer!

.. always look on the bright side of life…
https://youtu.be/WlBiLNN1NhQ

That sounds about right. Next time I see a thief, i will just type in “Don’t kill me. I am your buff generator” in the chat.

oh…they will kill you first alright…
mesmers now have immense potential to 1 hit KO any class, especially thieves.

Oh well, I could one shot KO thief before with a simple shatter combo…It really doesn’t mean anything. Ranger could also almost one shot me with a LB2.

EremiteAngel.9765:

Even though I don’t play mesmer and got no idea what those changes to you guys mean, I believe you guys.

the mesmer thread is overflowing with joy.
I’m happy for you mesmers. no longer going to get whipped by thieves.

All I can say is… with the way mesmers have had to work harder to get less for so long…. Now everyone will think mesmers are God.

what’s all this talk about mesmers needing to work hard in the current meta? rangers have been in a worse spot. they saw virtually no competitive play.

mistsim.2748:

what’s all this talk about mesmers needing to work hard in the current meta? rangers have been in a worse spot.

Whatever you say…

Gabriell.4856:

EremiteAngel.9765:

thief steal got buffed.

stolen plasma not nerfed either.

RIP mesmers?

but looking at your changes…are you now actually greater than thieves?

I main a thief for the past 3 years. After I saw the mesmer buffs, I’m dusting off my mesmer. Basically, phant and shatter will hit like a truck while having IP as base plus DE and PU. My build will be 6/6/6/0/0

There will be lots of viable mesmer builds now Robert is making up for the mesmer neglect we have had since launch.

I am particularly happy that mesmers now get reliable AOE skills that will allow them to contribute even more in a zerg fight WvW.

I never played mesmer because the skill floor is too high. Now I am planning to roll one for HoT to play a well chronomancer to participate in zerg fights!

EremiteAngel.9765:

thief steal got buffed.

stolen plasma not nerfed either.

RIP mesmers?

but looking at your changes…are you now actually greater than thieves?

No the 23/06/15 changes to Mes has changed nothing between Mes and Thieves. If a Mes was getting owned before the changes, he/she will still be getting owned after them.

Vague Memory.2817:

No the 23/06/15 changes to Mes has changed nothing between Mes and Thieves. If a Mes was getting owned before the changes, he/she will still be getting owned after them.

Way too soon to judge this.

Windwalker.7421:

Vague Memory.2817:

No the 23/06/15 changes to Mes has changed nothing between Mes and Thieves. If a Mes was getting owned before the changes, he/she will still be getting owned after them.

Way too soon to judge this.

No

/15chars.

Windwalker.7421:

Vague Memory.2817:

No the 23/06/15 changes to Mes has changed nothing between Mes and Thieves. If a Mes was getting owned before the changes, he/she will still be getting owned after them.

Way too soon to judge this.

I don’t think it is. There is no Mes game changer here.

Vague Memory.2817:

Windwalker.7421:

Vague Memory.2817:

No the 23/06/15 changes to Mes has changed nothing between Mes and Thieves. If a Mes was getting owned before the changes, he/she will still be getting owned after them.

Way too soon to judge this.

I don’t think it is. There is no Mes game changer here.

lol, read it on the internet so it must be true.

There are lots of game-changers for the mes vs thief matchup. A few off the top of my head:

Mesmer has tons of access to cripple. Mesmer vs thief is a lopsided fight in part because of the mobility advantage that thief enjoys over mesmer, and high access to cripple will even out that advantage.

Additionally, lockdown builds are generally more effective against thieves than pure power shatter. The added form of offense is effective in many ways at shutting down some of the popular thief builds. With the baselining of IP, it allows folks to run power lockdown as a main build instead of being forced into illusions for pure power shatter.

Additionally, running with a staff in chaos gives you access to low cooldown chaos storms, the strongest aoe denial in the game. If a thief engages into that, they’ll have problems. On top of that, the staff trait gives high access to protection, which will further help to mitigate thief burst.

And before someone calls me out for being part of the ‘cabal of the mesmer forum’, this is a summary of a discussion I had with Supcutie last night. The mesmer vs thief matchup is getting some serious equalization factors, and how equal it becomes will simply have to be seen in playing.

Fay.2357:

There are lots of game-changers for the mes vs thief matchup. A few off the top of my head:

Mesmer has tons of access to cripple. Mesmer vs thief is a lopsided fight in part because of the mobility advantage that thief enjoys over mesmer, and high access to cripple will even out that advantage.

Additionally, lockdown builds are generally more effective against thieves than pure power shatter. The added form of offense is effective in many ways at shutting down some of the popular thief builds. With the baselining of IP, it allows folks to run power lockdown as a main build instead of being forced into illusions for pure power shatter.

Additionally, running with a staff in chaos gives you access to low cooldown chaos storms, the strongest aoe denial in the game. If a thief engages into that, they’ll have problems. On top of that, the staff trait gives high access to protection, which will further help to mitigate thief burst.

And before someone calls me out for being part of the ‘cabal of the mesmer forum’, this is a summary of a discussion I had with Supcutie last night. The mesmer vs thief matchup is getting some serious equalization factors, and how equal it becomes will simply have to be seen in playing.

Also, the amount and frequency of Blind mesmer can apply through shattering/dodging/blocking will help a ton to defend yourself agaisnt thieves I suppose.

Here are a “few” more…

- Power Block causing Weakness on interrupt
- Confounding Suggestions being a 100% stun on Daze (hello Daze + MW combo!)
- AE Blind on Shatter
- PU providing us with longer & more Stealth than Thieves (and the ability to even specialize into PU while still running a Power Shatter build.)
- Mental Defense, summon pDefender off block or evade
- Restorative Illusions cleansing a condition and healing yourself on shatter
- Cripple on CoF

Virtually every line has some “game changer” in it, as do our Elites (new Moa & Time Warp both are greatly improved!)

Then there is also the 2x 1200 range Blink via Mimic as a perfect getaway. (Or PU + MI for 10s of Stealth will do as well.)

And we haven’t even gotten around to all of the vast Condition damage improvements that will continue to wreck Thieves even more than they already do now.

Thieves will certainly have a bit more of a fight on their hands dealing with the new Mesmer (at least initially) but leaving Consumer Ectoplasm in its current state is really rather questionable. The very presence of a Mesmer in a team fight is a hinderance because of this stolen skill….which can now be used twice.

Windwalker.7421:

Here are a “few” more…

- Power Block causing Weakness on interrupt
- Confounding Suggestions being a 100% stun on Daze (hello Daze + MW combo!)
- AE Blind on Shatter
- PU providing us with longer & more Stealth than Thieves (and the ability to even specialize into PU while still running a Power Shatter build.)
- Mental Defense, summon pDefender off block or evade
- Restorative Illusions cleansing a condition and healing yourself on shatter
- Cripple on CoF

Virtually every line has some “game changer” in it, as do our Elites (new Moa & Time Warp both are greatly improved!)

Then there is also the 2x 1200 range Blink via Mimic as a perfect getaway. (Or PU + MI for 10s of Stealth will do as well.)

And we haven’t even gotten around to all of the vast Condition damage improvements that will continue to wreck Thieves even more than they already do now.

can you explain how does mimic work for 2 × 1200 range blink?

according to wiki:

Mimic Copy boons from a targeted foe to yourself and doesnt blink

Sorry but even with mimic you’ll find it hard to get away from thieves, any thieves can easily chain steal/infiltrator skills/signet. 100% daze is the main game changer imo, pleasantly surprise to see them increase stun duration as well. Add that with CI as well as IP diversion on yourself means you can root/instantly retaliate the thief when he thought he had you. These are hypothetical rotations in old encounters anyway, who knows what thieves will get in their specialisation.

Eremite: new mimic changed to “reduce recharge of next utility skill to 1s after casting mimic”

Because they finally changed Mimic into something useful:

Mimic: Updated functionality of this skill. This skill now causes the next utility slot skill you use within 10 seconds to recharge in 1 second. Increased recharge to 90 seconds.

edit: Nike shoe was faster. How surprising.

tetrodoxin.2134:

Because they finally changed Mimic into something useful:

Mimic: Updated functionality of this skill. This skill now causes the next utility slot skill you use within 10 seconds to recharge in 1 second. Increased recharge to 90 seconds.

edit: Nike shoe was faster. How surprising.

That could work really well with feedback in PvE!

And in general, I know my guild’s pvp team definitely wants to run mesmer over thief now in our core comp. Partially because we have lots of great mesmers, but also because the burst, survivability, CC, and utility will be a fair bit better.

Simonoly.4352:

Thieves will certainly have a bit more of a fight on their hands dealing with the new Mesmer (at least initially) but leaving Consumer Ectoplasm in its current state is really rather questionable. The very presence of a Mesmer in a team fight is a hinderance because of this stolen skill….which can now be used twice.

I agree that is one of the most deadly additions to Mesmers for 1v1 fights. Especially when Chrono goes live you can F3 → MI → F1 for an instant 3 clone shatter before stun wears off with almost no chance to avoid it. (At best you’ll be busy using your stun-break while the MW blows up in your face.) Best of course is that target will be Vulnerable and thus Frag kicks in as well, and of course the new Mental Anguish will hit for a full 30%. This will down a Thief pretty fast.

I also doubt a Thief you’ve been fighting will be able to keep up with a double 1200 range Blink. It’s possible, but you’ll easily get to a safe or advantageous position at the very least. (In team fights, back to your team in no time.)

With Chrono you can 4x that Blink. :P

I agree that Ecto will be broken, but at this point we can only hope ANet will see this once it goes live. The main point is as you say, we will be much harder to take down, and that alone means a lot more frustration for Thieves targeting Mesmers in group fights.

Whlie thief can technically get that almost 100% up-time from consume plasma x2 … most Mesmer builds are capable of removing/stealing boons … so the Thief could very well be wasting their time (boons removed) or shooting their self in the foot (boons stolen).

Now, if they are smart, they will steal from the Mesmer then save it to use on some other poor victim :-p

Another thing to factor in, you could go with Bountiful Disallusionment in Chaos, and then have Fury up in the above scenario. Stunned target, Vulnerable=>Fragility, Fury up, Mental Anguish at 30% and a 3x Clone Mind Wrack shatter…ouch that’s gotta hurt!

And yes, you can still choose the Shattered Concentration trait (as usual) and that means you can rip a few of those boons right off him.

Also we have also not mentioned all the Invuln we could potentially have access to now. It makes more sense now too as you can share it with others around you via Insp minor. So any Signet you activate either directly, or via a trait, will grant you and everyone around you Invuln. That plus F4 (twice with SoI) is a lot of Invuln the Thief has to deal with. Again in team fights this means a very frustrated Thief.

Exciton.8942:

If you actually look through thief changes, they got quite buffed as well. So I am really not sure how it will turn out.

Yeah this.

I’d say no one truly knows how it will play out. We might still be prey in a different way.

It’s all up in the air at the moment – we’ll just have to play with it for weeks/months and see what happens.

Fay.2357:

There are lots of game-changers for the mes vs thief matchup. A few off the top of my head:

Mesmer has tons of access to cripple. Mesmer vs thief is a lopsided fight in part because of the mobility advantage that thief enjoys over mesmer, and high access to cripple will even out that advantage.

Additionally, lockdown builds are generally more effective against thieves than pure power shatter. The added form of offense is effective in many ways at shutting down some of the popular thief builds. With the baselining of IP, it allows folks to run power lockdown as a main build instead of being forced into illusions for pure power shatter.

Additionally, running with a staff in chaos gives you access to low cooldown chaos storms, the strongest aoe denial in the game. If a thief engages into that, they’ll have problems. On top of that, the staff trait gives high access to protection, which will further help to mitigate thief burst.

And before someone calls me out for being part of the ‘cabal of the mesmer forum’, this is a summary of a discussion I had with Supcutie last night. The mesmer vs thief matchup is getting some serious equalization factors, and how equal it becomes will simply have to be seen in playing.

I’m not seeing it personally. As I said if you were getting owned by a thief currently then after this next patch you will still get owned after it. There is no be big game changer here for the average Mes. If you are doing okay against thieves the changes will help out a bit but not massively.

You talk about cripple but I don’t see that being effective against an evade built thief which with condi removal, which I have been coming across with increasing frequency in PvP.

Staff has always been very good against thieves, so no real change there.

I would say the three biggest things that make thieves hard to deal with as a Mes is extreme in-combat mobility, lots of evades, and obviously stealth. Stealth has an additional side effect of making it difficulty putting phants (usually your main damage) up because you need to a target to do so.

These three factors have not been significantly affected by the new changes, and hence I don’t think the general outcome of Mes vs Thief will significantly change either. Any experienced skilled Mes with a build that is effective against thieves now are getting the biggest boost with the patch, but for people having trouble against thieves I don’t think it will change much.

Windwalker.7421:

Here are a “few” more…

- Power Block causing Weakness on interrupt
- Confounding Suggestions being a 100% stun on Daze (hello Daze + MW combo!)
- AE Blind on Shatter
- PU providing us with longer & more Stealth than Thieves (and the ability to even specialize into PU while still running a Power Shatter build.)
- Mental Defense, summon pDefender off block or evade
- Restorative Illusions cleansing a condition and healing yourself on shatter
- Cripple on CoF

Virtually every line has some “game changer” in it, as do our Elites (new Moa & Time Warp both are greatly improved!)

Then there is also the 2x 1200 range Blink via Mimic as a perfect getaway. (Or PU + MI for 10s of Stealth will do as well.)

And we haven’t even gotten around to all of the vast Condition damage improvements that will continue to wreck Thieves even more than they already do now.

You are vastly overstating these changes. I’ve run effective stealth and staff condi builds against thieves already, so some of the changes you mention are just making
these already effective builds better.

Against a good thief you are still going to have a hard time because it takes experience, skill, and pretty good reflexes to give them a run for their money. These changes in themselves will not suddenly make Mes and Thieves fight on equal terms. Refer to my post above.

What most mesmers are ignorant of here are the thief changes. Not only id thief damage get buffed further with new critical strike traits…

17% extra critical damage with new traits. Ferocity from 10% of precision. They’re looking at close to a 25%+ critical damage boost from new traits.

Shadow Arts will be really stupid. Their health regen and initiative while stealthed has been merged, they take 25% less damage while stealthed, condi removal on stealth, 3 sec stealth on steal so they get a free backstab when they steal now.

On top of reduced steal recharge and longer steal range.

And this is for 1v1 purposes. If the thief wants to go full nuke, he’ll drop shadow arts and go trickery and sit on a 12% damage increase from full initiative.

S/D gets even worse since they made the buff to flanking strike baseline.

Thief damage is gonna go up the roof this balance patch and I’m betting a lot of people are totally clueless until the patch hits and they start feeling those backstabs on steroids.

Zenith.7301:

What most mesmers are ignorant of here are the thief changes. Not only id thief damage get buffed further with new critical strike traits…

17% extra critical damage with new traits. Ferocity from 10% of precision. They’re looking at close to a 25%+ critical damage boost from new traits.

Shadow Arts will be really stupid. Their health regen and initiative while stealthed has been merged, they take 25% less damage while stealthed, condi removal on stealth, 3 sec stealth on steal so they get a free backstab when they steal now.

On top of reduced steal recharge and longer steal range.

And this is for 1v1 purposes. If the thief wants to go full nuke, he’ll drop shadow arts and go trickery and sit on a 12% damage increase from full initiative.

S/D gets even worse since they made the buff to flanking strike baseline.

Thief damage is gonna go up the roof this balance patch and I’m betting a lot of people are totally clueless until the patch hits and they start feeling those backstabs on steroids.

exactly, I dont know why people think Mesmers are better than Thieves after the changes kick in. Anet just has a kitten for the thief class, and they insist it to be the hard-counter to Mesmer class no matter what.

Vague Memory.2817:

Staff has always been very good against thieves, so no real change there.

I would say the three biggest things that make thieves hard to deal with as a Mes is extreme in-combat mobility, lots of evades, and obviously stealth. Stealth has an additional side effect of making it difficulty putting phants (usually your main damage) up because you need to a target to do so.

These three factors have not been significantly affected by the new changes, and hence I don’t think the general outcome of Mes vs Thief will significantly change either.

Not significantly changed? lol!

1) Mesmer also has pretty extreme combat mobility as well, and now with double blink and a 10s MI under PU also has two very viable escapes.

2) Evades are annoying, but Thieves hate prolonged fights especially if they’re wasting attacks on delivering zero or low damage. Between Blinds, stuns, Invulns, Weakness, and on-demand Protection they have a lot more to chew through, and that makes them more vulnerable to counter bursts. Most importantly, it gives Mesmer more time to react…and more often than not, that is what kills inexperienced Mesmers vs. Thieves.

3) From the looks of it, we’ll have potentially more and longer stealth then Thieves due to PU. So much for not being able to summon Phants due to their stealth. They will come out of stealth before us, and eat and iZerker or iDuelist attack while we’re still happily stealthed.

Lastly, Thieves are also extremely prone to being locked down and burst. We can do this in a variety of ways, not the least of which is the ability to deliver an over 4 second Stun twice in a row thanks to Mimic & SoD active (and the 25% duration on CS coupled with Sigil of Paralyzation). Draw out a stun break with CS, then deliver the real stun with SoD and watch him stand there for 4s doing nothing while getting 1-shot. If he breaks out of that one too, then just do it again. In ~4.5s you don’t even need MW to kill him, just a MB+MS+iZerker, maybe a swap to Sword and BF.

Many new and/or improved options, not the least of which is better kiting options with Cripple as Pyro said. Most of all, more reaction time and less punishment for slow reactions or poor decisions thanks to significantly improved defenses and/or sustain.

Mesmers > thieves now?
Well as an adept of the mesmer. We still in a good place even with the new thief changes. But time will tell. Keep in mind, with the new thief changes, there faster & more burstier then ever. All i can say is atm, only shatter build & great pressuring skill’s puts down thieves. Everything else is way to slow to counter them. & i’m thinking it’s not gonna be different after the change.

I am gonna try a PU shatter build just for the 100% bonus on the stealth. wil see.

I dunno I think the balance might be closer now.

Mes can now apply pressure without having to use shady or unreliable methods, much more access to blinds and are access able to most of our current meta variants.(contrasting meta trait line to 3 GM specializations)

It seems like there are a lot of things evening the playing field. I still believe thief will be the hard counter to mesmer but if mes has a fighting chance and is buffed to deal with the rest of the game as a whole I’m cool with this <3

Clearly I’m just speculating but on paper things seem brighter… That being said we haven’t seen thief specialization…

Daishi.6027:

I dunno I think the balance might be closer now.

Mes can now apply pressure without having to use shady or unreliable methods, much more access to blinds and are access able to most of our current meta variants.(contrasting meta trait line to 3 GM specializations)

I think your right. But only when it comes to other classes. As for thief, you need to read it. They will burst even harder then now & get out of dodge b4 you hit the dirt. There speed burst & stealth is our hard counter. No matter what build. Even warriors with hammer stuns or rangers with there quick sniping gets you if you don’t know how to skill out of it. So will see how it goes.

Vieux P.1238:

Daishi.6027:

I dunno I think the balance might be closer now.

Mes can now apply pressure without having to use shady or unreliable methods, much more access to blinds and are access able to most of our current meta variants.(contrasting meta trait line to 3 GM specializations)

I think your right. But only when it comes to other classes. As for thief, you need to read it. They will burst even harder then now & get out of dodge b4 you hit the dirt. There speed burst & stealth is our hard counter. No matter what build. Even warriors with hammer stuns or rangers with there quick sniping gets you if you don’t know how to skill out of it. So will see how it goes.

Yeah but you always had to read thief so that’s nothing new… The problem is it was always in their favor. Even if you won, the fight was still pretty stacked. (vs any thief who isn’t inept ofc)

If I have to read as much as I already do but don’t get super punished for a whiffed shatter, or hell even being able to punish them for a whiffed assault I’ll be happy.
(which the latter was my biggest issue with the class.)

I’m with you there Daishi …

… Mesmer shatter misses … Illusions are gone and it’s on cooldown.

… Warrior burst misses … Adrenaline is gone and it’s on cooldown.

… Thief misses backstab due to blind or is blocked/evaded … Thief is still stealthed and can just press the button again immediately.

Some seem to think that’s fine, but I think that “messing up” should come with a consequence … perhaps that’s just “too old school” :-/

Hmm it’s still to be seen, but I’m pretty sure thieves will still counter Mesmer. My hope is that it just won’t be a ridiculously hard counter anymore.

I am so sick of thieves being Mesmer’s hard counter. I wish Anet gave Mesmer the “lock-on” trait that Engineers got.

As the meta shakes out in the weeks following the patch, you’ll find many shatter mesmers experimenting heavily with the blind traits. Those alone could potentially do enough to bridge the current gap. Add in more lockdown functionality (confounding suggestions) that was previously unavailable and you have a compelling counter to thieves. This one is just going to have to play out.