Guild Wars 2

I was really enjoying playing mesmer in wvw and pvp. I recently went back to my warrior and as much as I would love to main a mesmer, it just has way too many bugs and ‘ifs’ that can cost you a fight. The problem i found is that the class is so dependent on the AI for (I played both phantasm and shatter, not PU) and the leap + blurred frenzy burst combo is soooo buggy and unreliable that it’s just not worth the frustration. It seems you need a perfect situation to land that consistently and lets face it, there are so many imperfections in this game that makes it almost impossible.

When people say warrior is ‘easy mode’, it really is compared to a mesmer. Dont get me wrong, I wanted to play a more dynamic class which is why I leveled and geared my mesmer but there are just so many things wrong with this class it seems?

One thing that’s been kittening me off recently is iLeap on EotM – terrain + skill lag makes it incredibly easy to screw up a combo.

At least we don’t have a semi-worthless pet…

—

Mesmers require a ramp-up time. When the stars align, they are tough opponents in duels.

Mesmers have stealth, and Moa morph. Also, their AI does everything for them, even while they are in stealth (and they are in stealth all the time). Mesmers are OP.

^At least that’s what some people claim. Which of course is complete bullkitten, but hey… who needs facts if you just can Q.Q?

:D

Saturn.6591:

Mesmers have stealth, and Moa morph. Also, their AI does everything for them, even while they are in stealth (and they are in stealth all the time). Mesmers are OP.

^At least that’s what some people claim. Which of course is complete bullkitten, but hey… who needs facts if you just can Q.Q?

:D

Yeah, when an opponent comes within 1200 range of us they just die, we don’t even have to press any buttons – so OP…

xD

Fade.9124:

I was really enjoying playing mesmer in wvw and pvp. I recently went back to my warrior and as much as I would love to main a mesmer, it just has way too many bugs and ‘ifs’ that can cost you a fight. The problem i found is that the class is so dependent on the AI for (I played both phantasm and shatter, not PU) and the leap + blurred frenzy burst combo is soooo buggy and unreliable that it’s just not worth the frustration. It seems you need a perfect situation to land that consistently and lets face it, there are so many imperfections in this game that makes it almost impossible.

When people say warrior is ‘easy mode’, it really is compared to a mesmer. Dont get me wrong, I wanted to play a more dynamic class which is why I leveled and geared my mesmer but there are just so many things wrong with this class it seems?

Unforgiving? Yes, mesmer is unforgiving in many ways. The mesmer should avoid taking damage, mesmer’s don’t sustain well or have much in terms of mitigation. The mindset that you must have to “mes” well is to not take damage in the early stages of a fight. Luckily mesmer has many options for avoiding early fight damage, mobility, evasion, stealth to name a few. This is a fundamental difference between mes and most classes.

Buggy? Meh, you learn to not use your Illusionary leap on uneven ground. See a thief that is on a slight uphill slope? Instead of using Illusionary leap on a spot that the ability will fail wait a second, use it at the top of the slope. Rarely are you going to spend a entire fight on a hill. Does that suck? Yeah it does, but I have yet to play a mmo that doesn’t have a hard time with X axis blinks. When you find a mmo that doesn’t have trouble with X axis blinking let me know. That would be the first mmo ever to not have this issue.

AI issues? Honestly I know dodge clones will run towards close targets and ability clones will run towards my targeted target so AI isn’t something that has ever bothered me about mesmer. I’ve always felt the AI was great for mesmer. Rangers and Necro’s are the ones that should be complaining. Again though, most mmo’s have trouble with pet pathing and AI. That’s another consistent problem in mmo’s. GW2 not be alone in that area.

Mesmer is still my favorite class of all MMO time. You like warrior, I like mesmer. The difference? You probably have way more practice on warrior while i have thousands of hours on mesmer. It’s not easy to switch classes when you’re confident on you main. I know I can’t pvp worth a kitten on anything but mesmer because I’ve never really practiced with them.

To each his own.

Godmoney.2048:

Fade.9124:

I was really enjoying playing mesmer in wvw and pvp. I recently went back to my warrior and as much as I would love to main a mesmer, it just has way too many bugs and ‘ifs’ that can cost you a fight. The problem i found is that the class is so dependent on the AI for (I played both phantasm and shatter, not PU) and the leap + blurred frenzy burst combo is soooo buggy and unreliable that it’s just not worth the frustration. It seems you need a perfect situation to land that consistently and lets face it, there are so many imperfections in this game that makes it almost impossible.

When people say warrior is ‘easy mode’, it really is compared to a mesmer. Dont get me wrong, I wanted to play a more dynamic class which is why I leveled and geared my mesmer but there are just so many things wrong with this class it seems?

Unforgiving? Yes, mesmer is unforgiving in many ways. The mesmer should avoid taking damage, mesmer’s don’t sustain well or have much in terms of mitigation. The mindset that you must have to “mes” well is to not take damage in the early stages of a fight. Luckily mesmer has many options for avoiding early fight damage, mobility, evasion, stealth to name a few. This is a fundamental difference between mes and most classes.

Buggy? Meh, you learn to not use your Illusionary leap on uneven ground. See a thief that is on a slight uphill slope? Instead of using Illusionary leap on a spot that the ability will fail wait a second, use it at the top of the slope. Rarely are you going to spend a entire fight on a hill. Does that suck? Yeah it does, but I have yet to play a mmo that doesn’t have a hard time with X axis blinks. When you find a mmo that doesn’t have trouble with X axis blinking let me know. That would be the first mmo ever to not have this issue.

AI issues? Honestly I know dodge clones will run towards close targets and ability clones will run towards my targeted target so AI isn’t something that has ever bothered me about mesmer. I’ve always felt the AI was great for mesmer. Rangers and Necro’s are the ones that should be complaining. Again though, most mmo’s have trouble with pet pathing and AI. That’s another consistent problem in mmo’s. GW2 not be alone in that area.

Mesmer is still my favorite class of all MMO time. You like warrior, I like mesmer. The difference? You probably have way more practice on warrior while i have thousands of hours on mesmer. It’s not easy to switch classes when you’re confident on you main. I know I can’t pvp worth a kitten on anything but mesmer because I’ve never really practiced with them.

To each his own.

Like I said I like the mesmer I just dont enjoy playing with all the issues and bugs like you do. You can live with them and work around them (when you shouldnt have to for the most part) whereas it’s just too frustrating for me. Warrior has issues too, like bull’s charge can be similar to the leap where it misses, overshoots, buggy on uneven terrain, etc but my entire build is not based around that whereas a mesmer is (with the exception of PU maybe). We’re both settling but the mez is the worst off of the bunch, except maybe ranger.

Fade.9124:

Godmoney.2048:

Fade.9124:

I was really enjoying playing mesmer in wvw and pvp. I recently went back to my warrior and as much as I would love to main a mesmer, it just has way too many bugs and ‘ifs’ that can cost you a fight. The problem i found is that the class is so dependent on the AI for (I played both phantasm and shatter, not PU) and the leap + blurred frenzy burst combo is soooo buggy and unreliable that it’s just not worth the frustration. It seems you need a perfect situation to land that consistently and lets face it, there are so many imperfections in this game that makes it almost impossible.

When people say warrior is ‘easy mode’, it really is compared to a mesmer. Dont get me wrong, I wanted to play a more dynamic class which is why I leveled and geared my mesmer but there are just so many things wrong with this class it seems?

Unforgiving? Yes, mesmer is unforgiving in many ways. The mesmer should avoid taking damage, mesmer’s don’t sustain well or have much in terms of mitigation. The mindset that you must have to “mes” well is to not take damage in the early stages of a fight. Luckily mesmer has many options for avoiding early fight damage, mobility, evasion, stealth to name a few. This is a fundamental difference between mes and most classes.

Buggy? Meh, you learn to not use your Illusionary leap on uneven ground. See a thief that is on a slight uphill slope? Instead of using Illusionary leap on a spot that the ability will fail wait a second, use it at the top of the slope. Rarely are you going to spend a entire fight on a hill. Does that suck? Yeah it does, but I have yet to play a mmo that doesn’t have a hard time with X axis blinks. When you find a mmo that doesn’t have trouble with X axis blinking let me know. That would be the first mmo ever to not have this issue.

AI issues? Honestly I know dodge clones will run towards close targets and ability clones will run towards my targeted target so AI isn’t something that has ever bothered me about mesmer. I’ve always felt the AI was great for mesmer. Rangers and Necro’s are the ones that should be complaining. Again though, most mmo’s have trouble with pet pathing and AI. That’s another consistent problem in mmo’s. GW2 not be alone in that area.

Mesmer is still my favorite class of all MMO time. You like warrior, I like mesmer. The difference? You probably have way more practice on warrior while i have thousands of hours on mesmer. It’s not easy to switch classes when you’re confident on you main. I know I can’t pvp worth a kitten on anything but mesmer because I’ve never really practiced with them.

To each his own.

Like I said I like the mesmer I just dont enjoy playing with all the issues and bugs like you do. You can live with them and work around them (when you shouldnt have to for the most part) whereas it’s just too frustrating for me. Warrior has issues too, like bull’s charge can be similar to the leap where it misses, overshoots, buggy on uneven terrain, etc but my entire build is not based around that whereas a mesmer is (with the exception of PU maybe). We’re both settling but the mez is the worst off of the bunch, except maybe ranger.

I understand your points. I wasn’t trying to criticize your perspective. My apologies if I was condescending.

Godmoney.2048:

Fade.9124:

Godmoney.2048:

Fade.9124:

I was really enjoying playing mesmer in wvw and pvp. I recently went back to my warrior and as much as I would love to main a mesmer, it just has way too many bugs and ‘ifs’ that can cost you a fight. The problem i found is that the class is so dependent on the AI for (I played both phantasm and shatter, not PU) and the leap + blurred frenzy burst combo is soooo buggy and unreliable that it’s just not worth the frustration. It seems you need a perfect situation to land that consistently and lets face it, there are so many imperfections in this game that makes it almost impossible.

When people say warrior is ‘easy mode’, it really is compared to a mesmer. Dont get me wrong, I wanted to play a more dynamic class which is why I leveled and geared my mesmer but there are just so many things wrong with this class it seems?

Unforgiving? Yes, mesmer is unforgiving in many ways. The mesmer should avoid taking damage, mesmer’s don’t sustain well or have much in terms of mitigation. The mindset that you must have to “mes” well is to not take damage in the early stages of a fight. Luckily mesmer has many options for avoiding early fight damage, mobility, evasion, stealth to name a few. This is a fundamental difference between mes and most classes.

Buggy? Meh, you learn to not use your Illusionary leap on uneven ground. See a thief that is on a slight uphill slope? Instead of using Illusionary leap on a spot that the ability will fail wait a second, use it at the top of the slope. Rarely are you going to spend a entire fight on a hill. Does that suck? Yeah it does, but I have yet to play a mmo that doesn’t have a hard time with X axis blinks. When you find a mmo that doesn’t have trouble with X axis blinking let me know. That would be the first mmo ever to not have this issue.

AI issues? Honestly I know dodge clones will run towards close targets and ability clones will run towards my targeted target so AI isn’t something that has ever bothered me about mesmer. I’ve always felt the AI was great for mesmer. Rangers and Necro’s are the ones that should be complaining. Again though, most mmo’s have trouble with pet pathing and AI. That’s another consistent problem in mmo’s. GW2 not be alone in that area.

Mesmer is still my favorite class of all MMO time. You like warrior, I like mesmer. The difference? You probably have way more practice on warrior while i have thousands of hours on mesmer. It’s not easy to switch classes when you’re confident on you main. I know I can’t pvp worth a kitten on anything but mesmer because I’ve never really practiced with them.

To each his own.

Like I said I like the mesmer I just dont enjoy playing with all the issues and bugs like you do. You can live with them and work around them (when you shouldnt have to for the most part) whereas it’s just too frustrating for me. Warrior has issues too, like bull’s charge can be similar to the leap where it misses, overshoots, buggy on uneven terrain, etc but my entire build is not based around that whereas a mesmer is (with the exception of PU maybe). We’re both settling but the mez is the worst off of the bunch, except maybe ranger.

I understand your points. I wasn’t trying to criticize your perspective. My apologies if I was condescending.

no prob.

“PU” isnt a build, and a mesmer using mainhand sword, and iLeaping from stealth (traited or not) is a thing.

The best way for a player to deal with your (very real) issue is to main a mesmer from the start, and never try/play anything else. That way you’re blissfully ignorant of the inadequacies of the mesmer class, and you become uber strong dealing with the easy mode opponent classes being thrown constantly at you. Which isnt to say fighting them is in any way easy. It’s more difficult than anything, but you have to adapt, or reroll.

Mained mesmer from the start all other classes just dont feel right :/.

Yeah, have to join in and also say that since I played Mesmer from day one I never really noticed how easy other classes have it. I did play Necro during beta but otherwise Mesmer has been my main. I’ve played other classes, but I always go back to Mesmer. Anything else just feels too easy. ^^;

Ross Biddle.2367:

“PU” isnt a build, and a mesmer using mainhand sword, and iLeaping from stealth (traited or not) is a thing.

The best way for a player to deal with your (very real) issue is to main a mesmer from the start, and never try/play anything else. That way you’re blissfully ignorant of the inadequacies of the mesmer class, and you become uber strong dealing with the easy mode opponent classes being thrown constantly at you. Which isnt to say fighting them is in any way easy. It’s more difficult than anything, but you have to adapt, or reroll.

This has always been my attitude about mmo’s. Personally I’m the kind of guy who like to play classes that are delicate and demanding. I play most single player games on the hardest difficulty just to drag them out a little. (beat Xcom Iron man/classic a few months back)

About 10 years ago I remember a sorta famous MMO post that made the rounds of the ancient internet that basically said “It’s the player’s ability to adapt to patches that makes a good MMO player, not the class”

I took that forum post to heart ever since. I also complain way way less than I used to.

One of the reason I “white knight” these forums a lot is that I understand peoples complaint because I used to do the same thing in my 20’s.

Now I’ve come to realize the Devs are just people doing the best they know how. No matter what anyone says I think the Devs have done a great job with a very unique class.

Last point. MMO’s are so complex and have so many variations and interactions between classes and abilities that no MMO is ever truly balanced. I’ve lowered my expectations. For me now the only types of things to really complain about are things like the Chaos Storm bug that was one shotting people. That could have been easily avoided if they gave us a test server. That bug has no excuse going live. Just saying.

Well, Godmoney, players have asked for a PTR for what feels like ages. We see how far that’s gotten us. And honestly, there are multiple other things done to/built into
Mesmers that can be complained about, and rightly so:

• Blinding Befuddlement ICD – Sure, blind’s OP coming from a Mesmer, but can be easily spammed by other classes? That made zero sense.
• Confusing Enchantments nerf – All that honestly needed to be done, to ‘balance’ it, was to fix the Trait to obey the 5-person target limit for (player) AOE. (This, incidentally, would have also brought down the power level of Glamourbombing as a whole, without needing to neuter WvW Confusion, or nerf BB Trait.)
• The continuing issues with certain weapon skills. For instance, Scepter AA or IMage.
• Nerfing (WvW) Confusion wholesale, but creating the Runes of Perplexity. Worst part is, they barely brought Mesmer Confusion specs back up to relative snuff … but made absolute monsters out of classes with better access to Interrupts.
• “Fixing” the Warden – which a lot of (forum) Mesmers didn’t consider a needed change – and by doing so, making a previously working Phant into a bugged wackiness.

With that said, I’m not trying to be a jerk here. I do see your argument about no MMO ever truly achieving balance, and it’s a fair point. However, there are honest mistakes, and (arguably) deliberate shafting. The problem for myself (as a person who’s mained Mesmer since Day -1) and others, lies in which of these two extremes holds the most sway in Dev-World. And a lot of times, it seems to be the side of shafting.

You should try Power Ranger!

Mesmer is a god of survival

The only thing I really wish they would fix is the AI on iWarden. It used to be one of my main weapon sets depending on what playstyle I wanted to do any given day but, ever since they bugged it out it’s been very hard to want to use it anymore. I thought it was fine the way it was myself. Even if the target runs away (which they will no matter what anyway) you can still attempt to pull them to it with Temporal Curtain or just cast iWarden when they’re unable to move (knocked down or what have you). There wasn’t really any reason I could see to change the AI to what it is now.

As for confusion nerfing, they’d been doing that since beta from what I remember hearing. It used to be quite over powered (shatters as well for that matter). I’m okay with it as it is but, that’s me. Runes of Perplexity however did make it ridiculous when used by other classes with tons of interrupt, as you said Advent.

But even with all the nerfs and changes I still stick with Mesmer. I can still be effective in wvw roaming which is where it matters the most to me. I was even experimenting with the so-called PU build even before it became a thing lol. Just because I needed a way to outlast opponents with higher burst and whathave you. It’s a fun class to learn and to master. But it doesn’t mean it doesn’t still need some tweaks here and there, and I’m sure the devs pay attention to that stuff (at least I hope so).

As far as the original concept of this thread:
I took to Mesmer for two reasons.

1. They seemed darned interesting, and that was only reinforced once I got my hands on the game.
2. I’m also something of a “weird class” fan. Failing that, it’s usually Casters and Sneaks for me.

As for unforgiving, I’d say Mesmer is somewhat unforgiving. Levelling, especially the first time out, is a beast on Mesmers, since the class is heavily-dependant on Traits. The OOC speed is also an issue (go figure, and this is my map completer alt ). However, survivability’s not as troublesome in most pve situations, Mesmers have a lot of ways to avoid damage, and in certain cases redirect it.

I’d honestly say the title of “Unforgiving” is best handed off to one of the following:

• Current-era D/D Elementalists. They’ve been heavily punished in regards to overall damage, mobility, and survivability over the months. Although, it does seem ANet’s guys are finally looking to bring that spec back up a bit. Good on them, there’s
  a world of difference between tweaking something downward from OP, and gutting it.
• P/P stealthless Thief. You’re running the “worst” weaponset for the class, that lacks in-built mobility or stealth access. In addition, 900 range is problematic, when standard “range attacks” are 1200. You’ve also got crap for defensive Boons, one means of Stability, low condi-clearing … and the crappiest tier of Health in game.

Those are all fair points Advent and I too would love to see some of these bugs squashed. I agree with for the most part.

I simply try to play a bit of devil’s advocate because sometimes in our passion we forget how complicated these systems and interaction of systems are.

I feel ya though.

Advent.6193:

<snip>

• P/P stealthless Thief. You’re running the “worst” weaponset for the class, that lacks in-built mobility or stealth access. In addition, 900 range is problematic, when standard “range attacks” are 1200. You’ve also got crap for defensive Boons, one means of Stability, low condi-clearing … and the crappiest tier of Health in game.

Heh, funny you should say that. My noob launch character in spvp was a quad pistol thief – ini gain on weapon swap, kind of like reloading for familiarity from shooters, using clerics amulet in pvp with full acrobatics.

Was… different… to say the least! :p

Curunen.8729:

Heh, funny you should say that. My noob launch character in spvp was a quad pistol thief – ini gain on weapon swap, kind of like reloading for familiarity from shooters, using clerics amulet in pvp with full acrobatics.

Was… different… to say the least! :p

Heh. I know it, because I run it. My Thief’s spent the majority of her existence as a zero-stealth Gunslinger. It’s a tricky style to work with, but … sooooo FUN.
(You know you run Acro and Guns too much, when your guildies invite you to a dungeon, convince you to swap to a Stealth build … and you feel unclean.)

Advent.6193:

Curunen.8729:

Heh, funny you should say that. My noob launch character in spvp was a quad pistol thief – ini gain on weapon swap, kind of like reloading for familiarity from shooters, using clerics amulet in pvp with full acrobatics.

Was… different… to say the least! :p

Heh. I know it, because I run it. My Thief’s spent the majority of her existence as a zero-stealth Gunslinger. It’s a tricky style to work with, but … sooooo FUN.
(You know you run Acro and Guns too much, when your guildies invite you to a dungeon, convince you to swap to a Stealth build … and you feel unclean.)

Yeah, it’s pretty exhilerating – if only you could use unload while mid dodge, that would be hilarious.

Edit: I forgot, signet of malice as well.

Mesmer with staff, sword, and blink/decoy on their util bar is one of the most forgiving set ups in the game.