Guild Wars 2

In another thread, I realized that I had completely misunderstood what was meant by 3x: XXX damage…

I had assumed the XXX damage was inflicted three times in a row – when in fact, the XXX number is the total damage, and you need to divide by three to establish what each individual hit does.

This made me realise that hitting people with a one clone mind wrack gave you much more bang for your buck than hitting them with a three clone mind wrack.

On the other hand, because of crits, the amount of damage does not always work out that way. A three clone mind wrack might show the figures: 500, 500, 250, for example. (I am assuming that the first two clones crit, and the third didn’t.) I haven’t done the math, but there may be some calculation, depending on crit chance, which favours more clones.

With this in mind, I have a couple of questions:

1) Is it always the case that you get more damage per clone if you shatter one at a time? Or is there some reason with crits etc that might make a 3x mind wrack a good investment?

2) Do clones get the same crit chance as the base player?

3) With other shatters (F2-4), is it also fair to say that, on the whole, you get better value/clone when shattering one clone at a time? The daze, for example, seems to be 1 sec no matter how many are shattered.

4) What strategies do people use to jack up mind wrack damage to the max?

Thanks!

1) Is it always the case that you get more damage per clone if you shatter one at a time? Or is there some reason with crits etc that might make a 3x mind wrack a good investment?

Well you generate clones and phantasms faster than the cooldown on Mind Wrack, so.

2) Do clones get the same crit chance as the base player?

To my knowledge, Mind Wrack is a player effect, not the illusion’s attack. Either way, clones do copy your crit%.

3) With other shatters (F2-4), is it also fair to say that, on the whole, you get better value/clone when shattering one clone at a time? The daze, for example, seems to be 1 sec no matter how many are shattered.

The Daze applies multiple times. If the illusions are spread out you will get more than 1s.

4) What strategies do people use to jack up mind wrack damage to the max?

The 20% Mind Wrack damage trait and Illusory Persona. I don’t find the 10% chance to crit to be worth it. I’d rather get the 3% damage per illusion trait instead.

(numbers are made up)
If you detonate one clone it does 500 damage.
If you detonate two clones, they each do 600 damage. If they hit the same target, the target will take 1200 damage.
You’re confused because the tooltips are terrible, never rely on them. Sometimes when it says damage (3x): 500 it means three hits for a total of 500 damage, and sometimes it means three hits for 500 each.

Daze duration does not stack which is why it always appears to be 1s, but each illusion applies it (if they hit at different times you will get more than 1s, or if you have them on different targets).

Effusion – are you sure?

So, basically, the 3x for Mind Wrack works entirely differently to, for example, the 8x for illusionary duellist?

I am looking at my combat log, and it doesn’t seem to be that… its just that I get a lot of crits, so it sometimes looks that way.

Pretty sure Mind Wrack (2x) is slightly less damage per Shatter than Mind Wrack (1x).

Oops, you’re right. I forgot that I was getting stacks of might while I was testing it

^ Another reason why it’s obviously better to Mind Wrack with 3 illusions rather than 1, for people with 25+ points in Illusions.

i can commit that mind wrack description is different then others, it really hits 3x the number in description for me 4x with Illusionary Persona

with Power build, 30 traits in Illusion and 10 traits in Domination for +20% dmg MW, i’m critting for like 4x 2000 to heavy golem if i’m lucky on crits

Also note that multiple clone dazes are great for stripping stacks of resolute (stability buff – may have wrong name) off of bosses. It’s usually a 5 stack that regenerates over time and each clone strips off 1 stack.

Get enough off and you can throw bosses around like rag dolls with the greatsword knockback or whatever your teammates might be packing.

I just ran an experiment under controlled conditions in PvE, Vs a set of centaur weapon racks since world objects you always deal consistent damage to, no crits or other factors come into it.

The clones did indeed display damage fragmentation. Each individual clone detonated for one “hit” each, and the more clones detonated the less damage they did individually

I just ran an experiment under controlled conditions in PvE, Vs a set of centaur weapon racks since world objects you always deal consistent damage to, no crits or other factors come into it.
The clones did indeed display damage fragmentation. Each individual clone detonated for one “hit” each, and the more clones detonated the less damage they did individually

Yes, I’ve seen the same thing, my 1 man shatter usually crits for 1200 and if I’d use 3 illusions, it’s usually around 1500-1700 total(they also seem to crit less). Maybe I should test some more though

Marxo.3829: It’s defiant iirc, and yes stripping 3 stacks of it is awesome when you have someone with good single target CC.

The relative damage numbers are going to look like this:

1: 200 damage total (200 damage per)
2: 320 damage total (160 damage per)
3: 435 damage total (145 damage per)

So just scale up those numbers for whatever damage you are doing.

So like with more damage I get

1: 1780 damage total (1780 damage per)
2: 2740 damage total (1370 damage per)
3: 3600 damage total (1200 damage per)

So a 2 clone shatter does 150%-160% and a 3 clone shatter does 200%-220% of a 1 clone shatter.

All this shows is that you shouldn’t summon a Phantasm to immediately shatter which we all already know.

When testing, I also found that

• shattering two illusions reduced the damage per illusion by about 20%; and
• shattering three illusions reduced the damage per illusion by about 30%.

Untraited I was calculating a staff clone or most damage phantasms would noticeably exceed the single target damage of a one-illusion mind wrack over 15 seconds, so given diminishing returns from shattering multiple illusions it seems the decision on when it is best to shatter can be quite complex.

I still think it is a terrible profession mechanic that makes it difficult for non-experts to calculate whether you actually come out ahead, not to mention one that actually competes against your other mechanics depending on how you trait, but oh well.