Guild Wars 2

Hey there,

I have seen some fellow mesmers talking about something similar in other threads, but I feel like this topic deserves its own.
The fact that mesmer does not seem to get any change concerning the shatter skills with Mirage is a little disappointing I’d say, just makes some potential flavour go away if the only mechanic is basically a changed dodge plus the ambush attack that follows. One could even argue that for gaining that dodge change we give up on some of it’s original utility, the moving out of the way part. Anyway, about the shatter, I get that mirage is not really meant to be shatter based, not as much as Chronomancer at least, but I would have loved to see at least some change in the mechanic of prexisting shatters or another even better another F5.

After having a look at the new skills and given the fact that the technology is already in the game I thought that getting something similar to the axe #3 skill as an F5 shatter would be really helpful and also increase the complexity of the playstyle a bit. Admittedly I have my doubts that this will be heard by the devs (here’s to hoping), but one can dream and at least have a discussion about it.

Here’s axe #3 as a reference (thanks to Aluren for the Mirage skill overview):

Axe 3: Axes of Symmetry (.75s cast, 10s cd)
You and all your axe clones shadowstep to a random location around your target
and apply confusion. This attack breaks enemy targeting and your illusions change
focus to the targeted foe.
• Dmg: 533
• Player confusion (5 stacks, 7.5s): 631 Dmg on Skill Use, 1960 Dmg
• Clone confusion (1 stack, 7.5s): 127 Dmg on Skill Use, 392 Dmg
• Evade: .75s
• Combo Finisher: Leap
• Range: 600

So my idea is:

Add an F5 skill, let’s just call it

F5: Illusive Symmetry (10s cd)
Shatter. Destroy all your phantasms. You and all your clones shadowstep to a random location around your target. This attack breaks enemy targeting and your illusions change focus to the targeted foe.

It seems as if the axe skill only retargets clones, not phatasms, which is fine, because that would probably be too strong.
This shatter could be implemented with or without a damaging attack part, I guess that’s a matter of balancing. However, considering that you’d lose your phantasms there should probably be some kind of attack damage to this shatter, just like the axe #3 has one as well.

In exchange the axe skill could be replaced by something else, maybe but not necessarily by something slightly more defensive, like a short evade frame or a single block or an axe throw that teleports just the mesmer to the target. From what it looks like there won’t be any defensive skill on axe (axe 2 doesn’t really count) and additionally not having access to shield could pose as a problem in pvp/wvw situations.

Now here’s the important part:
Retargeting your clones and being detargeted yourself seems like one of the core things to do as a Mirage, since it’s all about deception, so why only put it on axe and instead make it available for every wielded weapon by making it a shatter?

With that new shatter we could make use of the retargeting and the detargeting (breaking the enemies targeting) mechanic with all weapon combinations therefore adding versatility to the builds since you wouldn’t be forced to use axe all the time.

It would also help in pve scenarios with dps uptime, since you could just let your clones jump to next target, again, without being forced to use axe at that very moment. What this change would undoubtedly achieve is adding some more flavour to mirage as a specialisation, besides being a useful addition to every gamemode.

Obviously we couldn’t test any of the new stuff yet, but I feel like this would be a neat little extra to have, especially to make playing mirage more fun, whilst making it somewhat more versatile, plus adding another new skill of which the mesmer “only” gets 16 in total, 4 for axe (one ambush), 5 ambush skills on the other weapons, 6 utilities (healing skill and elite included), which is more than on chronomancer, but again less than some other classes (not that it would really be about that, but usually additional skills mean additional versatility and complexity).

So yeah, discuss! and in case you like the it, please make sure that we get enough attention, so that maybe a dev will stumble upon this.

You and all your axe clones shadowstep to a random location around your target
and apply confusion. This attack breaks enemy targeting and your illusions change
focus to the targeted foe.

This means axe 3 also changes focus on ALL your illusions. Lord Helseth already covered this in yesterday’s stream.

Im honestly fine theres no need for every elite soec to add a new shatter. I feel like the class is diff enough with ambush skills blur and the mirror mechanic.

I am actually hyped to this new elite, since it sounds better then chrono for solo players…..why? Oh that i already had posted in another thread…and got enough answers to say that chrono feels useless for me as an solo player…. also it looks like we get finally more aoe skills…

It would be better as a new f5 ability yes… but quite frankly this is just a repeate of the kitten they did with the cnronomancer.

There were 2 things we repeatedly asked for since beta.
1) to not lose all our dps when we use a shatter skill
2) to be able to redirect illusions to a new target

Well now we’ve got both… and they do nothing to fix the problem we have had since beta because they are stupidly locked behind our elite specs.

1) Chronomancers got Illusionary Reversion and Chronophantasma allowing them to instantly resummon illusions after shattering.
2) Mirage gets Axe of Symmetry letting them redirect illusions to a new target.

Both of these features should have been CORE to the mesmer…

The mesmer CORE shouls have Illusionary Symmetry as F5. Illusionary Reversion and Chronophantasma should be default behavior of illusions when shattered. And yess this means chronomancer would give up Illusionary Symmetry for Continuum Split, but their access to alacrity and whatever 2 new overpowered traits they get to fill in would certainly make up for it. Not to mention the fact that people wont feel forced to take traits to fix a core issue will open up better build options.

You and all your axe clones shadowstep to a random location around your target
and apply confusion. This attack breaks enemy targeting and your illusions change
focus to the targeted foe.
This means axe 3 also changes focus on ALL your illusions. Lord Helseth already covered this in yesterday’s stream.

Well the tooltip is a little unclear and I’ve only seen it work with clones on WoodenPotatoes stream, but it could of course work with phantasms too. Thematically Mirage seems to be more about clones than phantasms though, but whether the skill works with both is something we shall see.

Im honestly fine theres no need for every elite soec to add a new shatter. I feel like the class is diff enough with ambush skills blur and the mirror mechanic.

So basically you’re saying you’re fine with having less, well that’s fair enough, although I guess you might also just be more realistic than I am in thinking this change won’t make the cut anyway, which is probably true. I just think it doesn’t hurt to pitch the idea and having this mechanic as a shatter could make for some really interesting plays in pretty much every gamemode and shouldn’t be exclusive to just one weapon.

I am actually hyped to this new elite, since it sounds better then chrono for solo players…..why? Oh that i already had posted in another thread…and got enough answers to say that chrono feels useless for me as an solo player…. also it looks like we get finally more aoe skills…

Okay, uhm, I’ve not quite sure waht you’re trying to say, sorry. Please don’t get me wrong I’m not saying Mirage is bad, just that it could be a tad better with this change (even if it’s unlikely that it’ll get implemented, there’s no downside in discussing it, since our feedback was heard to an extent before HoT too)

Both of these features should have been CORE to the mesmer…

That is a good point yeah, although that would probably cause balance to be all over the place, still, I guess every mesmer would love the idea of not losing out on dps due to losing illusions that easily. The axe #3 skill is a step into the right direction, but not quite far enough for my taste, because just having it on one weapon when the code for it already exists is just kind of a shame or seems like a bit of a waste actually.

zealex.9410:

Im honestly fine theres no need for every elite soec to add a new shatter. I feel like the class is diff enough with ambush skills blur and the mirror mechanic.

Plus the other one already adds a new shatter. More differentiation, less sameyness!

Medatius.6092:

Okay, uhm, I’ve not quite sure waht you’re trying to say, sorry. Please don’t get me wrong I’m not saying Mirage is bad, just that it could be a tad better with this change (even if it’s unlikely that it’ll get implemented, there’s no downside in discussing it, since our feedback was heard to an extent before HoT too)

To me it seems like an utterly needlessly complex fix to a simple problem: Spec might be too weak.

Well, buff it then. Increase damage stats, extend condition duration (if the axe is weak, not the spec), and so on.

Why add a new complexity on top, especially because the underlying premise is a bit flawed (it’s not a downside if a spec is, say, less centered on shattering – it’s just 1 elite spec of many, there might be another one in the future which is all about shatters).

Plus the other one already adds a new shatter. More differentiation, less sameyness!

Granted, that was my mistake by how I named and started the thread, but just because it would be a shatter skill it doesn’t mean it’s the same, because its mechanic is totally different, the shatter is merely a way of making it accessible to every potential weapon set plus giving axe the option of a little bit more defense or utility or another damage skill, for all I care it would also be fine as a utility skill for the 6,7,8 slots.

Why add a new complexity on top, especially because the underlying premise is a bit flawed

Why not add more complexity, it adds to the fun and mirage is most certainly not too complex as of right now that this addition would turn it into a weaver like spec.

Well, buff it then. Increase damage stats, extend condition duration (if the axe is weak, not the spec), and so on.

Going for some flat out number tweaks like damage buffs is probably the most boring way to enhance any class, I’d say it would even be better to have lower cooldowns and less damage on the individual skills since at least then you’d have to press the buttons more often.
That’s besides the point I’m trying to make anyway since the proposed change isn’t about increasing the damage (that would be just a small bonus of slightly increased dps uptime due to less illusion deaths) or the fact that mirage could be too weak, I think we’re not quite on the same page here unfortunately. What I’m trying to say is: being able to retarget your illusions with every weapon set is meant to be about build diversity whilst adding more depth and therefore fun to the process of gaming.
In my opinion the approach of dodge, 1, dodge, 1, plus the “mini game” of running into mirage mirrors could end up being a bit too dull in the long run in terms of gameplay (I do however love the concept of potentially sacrificing defense for offense), so this thread is just meant as an idea to make things a little more interesting without being game-breaking.

Would certainly be nice to have a function skill that retargets illusions to different enemies.

As long as we’re talking new skills, what say we put them on axe 4 and 5? I want an off-hand axe.

I’m more excited for this as a set up for a shatter skill, as opposed to being one. Our burst prior was always such a pain, and super easy to play around compared to a thief who would be like " ‘Oh Hai!’ BURST! with little tell" Now we can do it too! other than keeping the whole spawning illusions part. Plus we have a follow up safe attack for extra dmg.

We really don’t need another shatter.

I’m more excited for this as a set up for a shatter skill. Our burst prior was always such a pain, and super easy to play around compared to a thief who would be like " ‘Oh Hai!’ BURST with little tell" Now we can do it too! other than keeping the whole spawning illusions part. Plus we have a follow up safe attack for extra dmg.

We really don’t need another shatter.

Again, it’s not about adding a shatter per se, it’s about making the Axe#3 skill accessible , so that one can use a skill like that on every weapon set. Transforming it into a shatter skill is just a convenient and elegant solution for that (in my opinion anyway), but it would also be fine as a utility skill.

I just really like the idea of being able to retarget your illusions instead of losing them and also adding that extra layer of deception with the teleport and enemies being forced to detarget you. I don’t like the fact that a flavourful skill like axe#3 is bound to only one weapon though, hence this thread.

Medatius.6092:

I’m more excited for this as a set up for a shatter skill. Our burst prior was always such a pain, and super easy to play around compared to a thief who would be like " ‘Oh Hai!’ BURST with little tell" Now we can do it too! other than keeping the whole spawning illusions part. Plus we have a follow up safe attack for extra dmg.

We really don’t need another shatter.

Again, it’s not about adding a shatter per se, it’s about making the Axe#3 skill accessible , so that one can use a skill like that on every weapon set. Transforming it into a shatter skill is just a convenient and elegant solution for that (in my opinion anyway), but it would also be fine as a utility skill.

I just really like the idea of being able to retarget your illusions instead of losing them and also adding that extra layer of deception with the teleport and enemies being forced to detarget you. I don’t like the fact that a flavourful skill like axe#3 is bound to only one weapon though, hence this thread.

I’m honestly just happy with more targeted blinks/shadow steps in general, Jaunt is right up that alley. Haven’t seen all the utilities so holding hope we get more de-targeting. But an interesting way they could have implemented target drops is by touching mirage mirrors.

I’m honestly just happy with more targeted blinks/shadow steps in general, Jaunt is right up that alley. Haven’t seen all the utilities so holding hope we get more de-targeting. But an interesting way they could have implemented target drops is by touching mirage mirrors.

I agree, blinks are always welcome, but I doubt there are anymore re-/de-targeting skills as utilities in the expansion as of yet. Which is why I thought it would be a good idea to start the discussion early enough so there’s at least a slight chance of getting more implemented.
Also, target drops by touching mirage mirrors sounds like a fun mechanic to have, maybe as an option via a trait.