Guild Wars 2

This thread is to hold feedback from the demo weekend for Mirage.

Yeah for some reason I thought “wait? it’s friday today?”
kitten it :|

LOL chill. Made it early so folks see the thread and can give feedback in one place instead of making a ton of unorganized pieces of info…

ButterPeanut.9746:

LOL chill. Made it early so folks see the thread and can give feedback in one place instead of making a ton of unorganized pieces of info…

Except that it’s way more useful to have separate threads for different topics for feedback than having to sort through one huge thread to parse all the different bits. So….yeah, this is pretty useless.

Fay.2357:

ButterPeanut.9746:

LOL chill. Made it early so folks see the thread and can give feedback in one place instead of making a ton of unorganized pieces of info…

Except that it’s way more useful to have separate threads for different topics for feedback than having to sort through one huge thread to parse all the different bits. So….yeah, this is pretty useless.

Meh, agree to disagree I guess.

kitten saw the title and wanted to make fun of this thread being posted too early but it seems that I was late :c

It’s also going to have these useless replies to the early posting of the early thread.

equip tin foil hat I guess in the event A-net decides to merge all the threads anyways you might get top slot.

ButterPeanut.9746:

LOL chill. Made it early so folks see the thread and can give feedback in one place instead of making a ton of unorganized pieces of info…

And yet now this whole thread is filled with unorganized bits a pieces and no actual info, so anyone wanting to post anything about it is going to have a bunch of crap to sift through before they get to anything meaningful. Should have waited until Friday bro

Okay, some actual information with which I am disappointed and confused about:

Sword Clones don’t trigger your interruption traits when they interrupt something via Ambush.

That’s dumb.

Looks like its a PvP spec and maybe open world PvE if you like the flavor but the numbers are so weak from a DPS standpoint. I have a feeling this was intentional since mesmers are already so wanted in raids.

1.ambush skills only get 1.5s window to cast . which is stupid
2. mirror is not that useful and walking to them to gain that little is dumb
3. dmg on axe and whole mirage is low comparing to other elite
4.elite tele range is too short
5. no dodge movement costs a lot and mirage defensive traits + skills are not enough for that yet especially we trade one elite trait line for that
6. new elite spec has insane amount of cc , mirage trait : dodge to stunbreak actuallt is not that op as we thought

7. mirage is so so so so sos much op anyway , can anyone tell wooden potato we are finally op dps dealer now so we can watch he streams mirage doing pity dps annd get kicked from raid .

Also, another thing: GS Clones don’t trigger Imagined Burden with their Ambush. Was hoping it would trigger 3 times, but it doesn’t even trigger once. Boo!

Law.1704:

Looks like its a PvP spec and maybe open world PvE if you like the flavor but the numbers are so weak from a DPS standpoint. I have a feeling this was intentional since mesmers are already so wanted in raids.

The dps really is awful, old specs (pistol phantasms and sword OH phantasms) do way more damage from what it seems. Phantasms are skills that you don’t want to use at all as a mirage, so we have 1 skill on every weapon combination that you don’t want to use.
Shattering still seems like a dps loss over just not using it.

Due to chronomancers already being wanted in raids doesn’t make it okay at all to have an insanely weak damage based elite spec which so far only seems good in pvp.

I’m really saddened by the elite spec and it makes me really consider not getting the expansion pack as getting an elite spec that is awful and not worth using as I don’t pvp makes the value drop way way down. I’ll wait till we see some actual benchmarks though but it doesn’t look good at all.

Freaking anet can you do balance right for once?!

yes cause raids are the end all be all of dps. /sarcasmoff…

Short feedback:

Feels much weaker than chrono, much less survivability. Loss of other chrono mechanics and synergies (ie with things like restorative illusions) again impacts this and also reliability – chrono is less punishing if you make a mistake but with mirage it feels like one has to play very carefully.

On the other hand potential burst can be good (pvp perspective) if chaining infinite horizon scepter ambush into shatter, or axe2 x2 dodge ax3 into shatter with DE, but it’s far less reliable.

Some things are nowhere near as good as expected – elusive mind is much worse than infinite horizon, heal is pathetic tbh and deception utilities not good enough to replace things like Blink, condi cleanse mantra (which is necessary now) and other utilities like Decoy or Portal.

However the worst thing funnily enough is the sound effect for Phantasmal axe – I don’t know about anyone else but I find it even worse than Alacrity and really offputting to use Axe. It’s like an egg shaker or similar rattle instrument gone mad, and the fact that using traited axe spits these things out all the time leaves that constant rattling/ticking sound in your head. I really hate this sound and sadly might not use axe if the sound effect remains as it is.

The single BEST thing about this is Jaunt. Jaunt is by far the most amazing skill I’ve seen.
The fact you can teleport stomp with it is a bonus, and the low cooldown on charges is great. I agree it ought to have the range increased to 600, but otherwise I love this skill.

dchsknight.3042:

yes cause raids are the end all be all of dps. /sarcasmoff…

To who is this reply? I personally never stated that raid is the end all be all of dps, I’m saying that compared to the options we already have the viability of the new elite spec is way lower than the options we already have. Even in open world, fractals, etc.
The only place where it might be viable as is seems to be pvp.

dchsknight.3042:

yes cause raids are the end all be all of dps. /sarcasmoff…

No you are right they are not but nobody if going to take a Mirage over a chrono for anything PvE related except open world where people can play whatever they want. The spec looks great for the PvP players, you only have to look at the utility skills to see which area of the game this was designed for.

The downside to only creating an elite spec for PvP players is its a dead spec for the rest of the playerbase.

I really didn’t want to be right about this, sorry fellow Mesmers.

I will be honest, I do kinda like the sword ambush skill, but it feels like it should have been part of the base sword kit from the beginning… The other thing that gets me, it feels like we are not getting enough endurance. We ultimately seem to now have a second resource to manage for our damage, and like our clones it is again tied to our defenses. This is kinda insane… Would probably feel much better with a third dodge…

after testing all elite spec , i can fairly say mirage is trash tier in all game mode , have fun guys

Zarathustra.1458:

I will be honest, I do kinda like the sword ambush skill, but it feels like it should have been part of the base sword kit from the beginning… The other thing that gets me, it feels like we are not getting enough endurance. We ultimately seem to now have a second resource to manage for our damage, and like our clones it is again tied to our defenses. This is kinda insane… Would probably feel much better with a third dodge…

. We ultimately seem to now have a second resource to manage for our damage

thats what i feel

Zarathustra.1458:

I will be honest, I do kinda like the sword ambush skill, but it feels like it should have been part of the base sword kit from the beginning… The other thing that gets me, it feels like we are not getting enough endurance. We ultimately seem to now have a second resource to manage for our damage, and like our clones it is again tied to our defenses. This is kinda insane… Would probably feel much better with a third dodge…

I agree, even with vigour the endurance regen is too slow to be practical for either offence or defence.

Law.1704:

dchsknight.3042:

yes cause raids are the end all be all of dps. /sarcasmoff…

No you are right they are not but nobody if going to take a Mirage over a chrono for anything PvE related except open world where people can play whatever they want. The spec looks great for the PvP players, you only have to look at the utility skills to see which area of the game this was designed for.

The downside to only creating an elite spec for PvP players is its a dead spec for the rest of the playerbase.

It might not even be that good for pvp. So far I’m feeling Chrono is better – more sustain, more reliability and still good enough damage.

btw with all those insane aoe around

have fun to keep our dumb AI alive

Yeah this is so much weaker than I was expecting. There’s going to be some massive buffs in certain areas.

So far I also tried Firebrand (holy kitten the burning – I thought this was a support spec?), Holosmith (ludicrous damage output), and Weaver (meh actually not really my cup of tea).

Firebrand’s axe is actually pretty cool – I like the pull and the visual effects on the whole thing.

Curunen.8729:

Law.1704:

dchsknight.3042:

yes cause raids are the end all be all of dps. /sarcasmoff…

No you are right they are not but nobody if going to take a Mirage over a chrono for anything PvE related except open world where people can play whatever they want. The spec looks great for the PvP players, you only have to look at the utility skills to see which area of the game this was designed for.

The downside to only creating an elite spec for PvP players is its a dead spec for the rest of the playerbase.

It might not even be that good for pvp. So far I’m feeling Chrono is better – more sustain, more reliability and still good enough damage.

Chrono is clearly better.

Mirage’s power level is roughly equal to chrono w/o F5.

Ambush skills are too easy to tell and avoid. They are not that strong to begin with. You trade this for chrono’s alacrity. Definitely not worth it.

Axe is a meh weapon. Can’t see it replacing sword or scepter in any meaningful means. And now we don’t have shield. All of a sudden, we realize we only have one useable off-hand for PvP.

I should have expected this. Considering how they butchered the base mesmer to balance the OP chronomancer, now we are paying the price.

Oh yeah, there’s also the fact that we still lack 99% of the necessary ability to keep our clones alive, even when they’re oh-so-important to the spec. And even then, we have to spec a GM for it. Infinite Horizon shouldn’t be a GM, it should be automatic so we can have an actual choice.

Only good thing about mirage is the dodge. It is cool mechanics that opens door for interesting plays.

All other things are meh gimmicks .

My feedback : Thanks god we have Chrono.

Redirecting our phantasms needs to be an ACTUAL THING not an Axe skill. ArenaNet Please. Like if its that bad then instead of my below complaint regarding the dodge, make this our F5. None of us will complain (mostly none, whatever)!

The dodge-to-cast-special thing is… an interesting idea, but it hurts our mobility if we are using our mobility to do damage. Please give us back our dodge roll, and put this flip on the special action key, like the Chronomancer’s default F5.

Particles: I see that they want to be more sand/smoke like, but I think they lack the expressiveness of the rest of our particles. The feel muted and wispy, they lack the bite from the other Mesmer actions.

I feel like we are blinking all over the place, but what are we actually accomplishing other than spreading low levels of dots around? I tried out Deadeye, they can do 13k in a single button press to the same target golem.

Honestly, disappointing, confusing, and was really hoping for a power option for this spec. But there won’t be one with greatsword ambush being pathetic.

I didn’t really notice what the sword ambush ability does because you have to cast it so fast after you gain mirage cloak due to ambush window being so short.

Staff and scepter seem like the only viable options. Axe was underwhelming.

This spec might be good for pvp, but it has so much less survivability than chrono it’s pretty much a much less efficient version of a burst shatter one shot build. I have much more fun bursting people down with my greatsword than whatever this mess is.

I suppose I should give it time, and I can always go back to the old spec, but it’s disappointing that we have this new elite spec and it seems like a weak glass condi build. Who would want to run this when you can run chronophantasma and be twice as good at pretty much everything.

In terms of what I would do to fix it, I would definitely at the very least make Infin Horizons baseline. Then perhaps give a trait that makes the ambush skill do more damage and the window in which you can use it last longer. Or give two strikes and keep the damage where it is.

Perhaps by the end of the day someone will come up with a build that actually works, but as it is right now it just seems inferior.

Gwydeon.3580:

Redirecting our phantasms needs to be an ACTUAL THING not an Axe skill. ArenaNet Please. Like if its that bad then instead of my below complaint regarding the dodge, make this our F5. None of us will complain (mostly none, whatever)!

I think a better, more intuitive mechanic would be to make it so that all illusions retarget when you use an ambush attack.

The loss of time catches up is pretty big in pvp.

Dondagora.9645:

Also, another thing: GS Clones don’t trigger Imagined Burden with their Ambush. Was hoping it would trigger 3 times, but it doesn’t even trigger once. Boo!

it only triggers if you have the grandmaster to apply mirage cloak to your illusions.

InsaneQR.7412:

Dondagora.9645:

Also, another thing: GS Clones don’t trigger Imagined Burden with their Ambush. Was hoping it would trigger 3 times, but it doesn’t even trigger once. Boo!

it only triggers if you have the grandmaster to apply mirage cloak to your illusions.

No, doesn’t trigger on GS Ambush at all.

guys at this point , there is only a month before PoF.

just prepare an alt class to main for pof content .

from its gameplay to power level , mirage is trash comparing to other elite

i will be playing holosmith or weave in pof i guess .

what is worse is people still calling nerf to mirage lol

Simonoly.4352:

Yeah this is so much weaker than I was expecting. There’s going to be some massive buffs in certain areas.

We have been saying that about base Mesmer for 5 years now.

Full sinister w/ Rune of the Adventurer.
Weapons: Axe & Torch w/ Sigil of Bursting & Sigil of Energy.
Scepter & Pistol w/ Sigil of Cleansing & Sigil of Energy.
Endurance food etc…

Endurance bar should have a 3rd bar or have traits/skills that better help with receiving endurance.

The mirage mirror being placed on the ground and having us to walk over it seems very tedious and would rather just have the effect affect me as opposed to me walking over to get its effect. Unless the mirage mirror can be picked up by allies too then sure keep it, but since they can’t, then no real point.

Mirage cloaks duration needs to be increased so it’s more noticeable when available. The moment it’s triggered it’s hard to get it off midst combat sometimes.

Mirage Mirrors placed on the ground should affect other mesmers but as I tested, they don’t.

False Oasis heals for too little compared to our other healing skills. A part of me also feels like this skill should grant invisibility?

Crystal Sands is hard to recognize the damage and when you think you’ll damage someone because of the radius of the targeting circle, the shards ends up missing the target and in the end we get wasted damage, confusion and in trade for a mirage mirror that’s too close to the enemy for us to grab and benefit from.

Mirage Advance is alright, a part of me feels like this skill and Illusionary Ambush should be made into one skill and then create another utility that would be more beneficial.

Sand Through Glass should have its distance increased to 400 and should create a mirage mirror where you end up at.

Jaunts range needs to be increased to 600 or 900.

Ambush skills I have no comment on. Animations aren’t that flashy or interesting and seem recycled.

Traits
Self-Deception needs to be removed and changed into something else. We already have enough skills and attacks that generate clones fast enough.

Renewing Oasis I wouldn’t change.

Riddle of Sand I like it but for someone who barely shatters, would this be a better trait if it triggered upon gaining Mirage Cloak?

Nomads Endurance wouldn’t change but for those who want to play mirage as power, I’d add a power attribute increase too?

Shards of Glass the “trigger on chance” can be very unreliable so this should be a base for this elite spec to affect your illusions giving us more ways to gaining mirage cloak.

Mirage Mantle protection duration is unnoticeable and as a major trait, it feels like a waste. This needs to be trashed and redone.

Mirrored Axes I would keep but I’d probably add increasing the attack speed of the axe since it’s attack animation is too slow or increase the attack speed to the axe overall.

Speed of Sand just give it a 1s duration, or remove it and add the 25% movement speed. OR, give it a 1s duration upon gaining mirage cloak and give it a passive that gives us 25% movement speed so we don’t have to feel bad about giving up chrono.

Infinite Horizon fine as it is.

Elusive Mind meh

Dune Cloak meh, this trait doesn’t feel that impactful and should be removed and redone.

Overall my experience with the mirage specialization wasn’t a good one. There wasn’t anything that caught my eye or made me go “wow, that was amazing”. For an elite that “apparently” had some time put into it, it felt like a lazy job and this elite needs to be looked over again before launch 100%.

Honestly, as a Mesmer fanatic since the beginning of GW1, this spec is terrible. All other professions are getting sweeping changes and new mechanics. We got another condi spec with dodges that don’t move. That’s it. I simply do not understand how, with all the possibilities they could’ve gone with – the early-idea rifle spec that they teased us with during HoT, illusionary weapons as kits, or a genuine punishment spec like Spellbreaker – we get something this dull, this plain. I am so astounded and disappointed.

Firebrand is good, I threw together a Power build with some concentration and was keeping up perma quickness on myself without even trying, the damage without the quickness was more then anything Mirage or Chrono can do.

Spirit Weapons are vastly superior Phantasms.

Levetty.1279:

Firebrand is good, I threw together a Power build with some concentration and was keeping up perma quickness on myself without even trying, the damage without the quickness was more then anything Mirage or Chrono can do.

Spirit Weapons are vastly superior Phantasms.

I also really like Firebrand for some reason. Wasn’t expecting that at all but I prefer it over most elite specs.

Mirage is… well it feels like it’s not finished. :/

some suggestion i made to improve mirage from the abyss :

class mechanic :
1. buff all ambush skill , double their dmg . when you hit foe with your own ambush still , it restore some endurance. buff gs ambush with a short dps buff like 10% crit dmg for 10s .ambush skills should last longer , like 3-5s
2.more skills and trait will have build in mirror . like when we summon a phant we gain a mirror .
3.for each successful evade , mes charge a f5 skill : mirage mirror : build a mirror on target location .
Trait :
1. make Infinite Horizon base line , new trait here :when phant gain mirage cloak they also recharge their attack 10s icd.
2. make Self-Deception base line , new trait here : when you touch mirror you gain a clone
3. Dune Cloak : make bleed to burn
4. Speed of Sand , spuerspeed lasts longer , like 3 s . or
5. Shards of Glass : buff the chance to 100% or 66% right now its a crap
6: Nomad’s Endurance : double vigor effect
7.Riddle of Sand: buff confusion duration
8. Renewing Oasis : recduce condi duration all the time . change regen to when u touch mirror you lose 2 conditionn
Utilities:
1. Jaunt : but its range to 600 or 900
2.Sand Through Glass: add second function that you can roll back and gain vigor
3. Illusionary Ambush: recharge all phants attack skill , cd to 30-35
4.Mirage Advance: gain a dodge ,small aoe blind when you blink back , you leave a small aoe blind field
5.Crystal Sands: for each unique condi on foe , apply additional 2 bleed stack .
6. massive buff to heal , either regain us dodge or make it a bigger aoe also water field and the heal number need to be way higher for a 30s cd skill
Axe skills
1.massive buff to AA dmg
2.reduce skill 3 casting time
3.buff skill 2 aoe radius and range .
Or can we get a nnew elite with dagger dual plz
this crap is going take a lot of effort to fix and balance .

I knew it when I was worried if Phantasmas would get ambush skills or not

I have found one possibility of being functional, also bearing in mind cele amulet is returning to pvp and cele is already available in wvw.

Might stacking via Chaos Vortex, Infinite Horizon and Bountiful Disillusionment and utilising Deceptive Evasion is pretty legit – I can easily get up to 25 stacks although positioning is required and of course clones need to be alive.

I dropped Illusions trait line to take Chaos and Duelling for this – because shattering is less frequent.

After playing for half of this afternoon, I think here are the reasons why mirage feels so underwhelming.

1. Reliance on clones but they die super fast.

2. Mirror mechanics is extremely hard to utilize as you have to walk looong distance to activate them to get minimum benefit.

3. Ambush skills are weak and telegraphed. They are only good against golems.

If anything, mirage could have a trait that gives clones 2 lives.

That avoids the complaints about old “on-death” traits we used to have and also provides some reliability for clones. If they die they immediately respawn.

Hell, if we had On-Death traits in Mirage, I’d be pretty happy. It decentivizes people from killing clones.

I really want clone management gameplay to be a thing as it is in total contrast to chrono shatter spam.

But they die too easily, which makes the whole spec fall apart given it’s balanced around the damage output from infinite horizon ambushes…

Right, so.

1) Ambush attack window is far too short.
2) Most Ambush attacks are simply not effective and massively telegraphed. The only decent Ambush skill is sceptre.
3) Axe is far too clunky for something that oozes finesse like Mesmer. Needs more precise attacks and a faster auto-attack chain.
4) Mirage mirrors do not remain in place for long enough, especially as they spawn in often dangerous areas. My Mirage Mirrors are often utterly wasted because attempting to get them within the short spawn time means I would probably die trying to get it. They should remain much longer so Mirages can spread out pockets of survivability for later use. ADVANCED MIRAGE TACTICS
5) Mirage Mirrors probably need some further modification via traits at least because they’re a bit dull currently.
6) Missed opportunity to allow for some group support via the Mirror Mechanic – especially as you often spawn them at range.
7) Jaunt needs a range increase.
8) Self-Deception is too much cost for a single clone.
9) Mirage Mantle needs way more than just Protection for around 2 seconds
10) Speed of Sand needs to have some swiftness added on or we’re going to have another Traveller rune scenario for the next 2-3 years – or people swap back to Chrono a lot.
11) Infinite Horizon should either be baseline or the burst skills for Mirage need to be far more effective.

Overall, the core concept is good, but a lot of tweaking is needed to make it feel less clunky and more deceptive. I don’t think this elite specialisation is there yet.