Mirage... I am depressed :(

Mirage... I am depressed :(

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Posted by: Ryouzanpaku.1273

Ryouzanpaku.1273

So during the yesterday’s stress test I have tried my best to test Mirage in open world… and results are quite underwhelming. To me it is like adding Mirage to basic Mesmer is actually downgrade in many ways:

- Mirage cloak:
— loss of movement is TERRIBLE – I was getting hit by AoE’s all the time while on any other class I would be simply outside of the AoE thanks to normal dodge
— combine this with root while using scepter ambush (probably only ambush which is usable now) and result is terribad
— overall Mirage cloak is offensive tool and loss of dodge movement is crippling in aoe heavy environment
— fix would be easy – just add instant blink to Mirage cloak with dodge range – then Mirage Cloak will be purely advantageous compared to normal dodge

-Ambush skills
— not worth of using in most cases (except for scepter where the root while casting is terrible too)
- ambush window is way to short – some of the autoattack chains are actually longer (GS)

-Mirrors
— was not able to use them to any real advantage – may be L2P issue

Overall:
– I had no problem playing open PvE – but it is no achievement as one handed monkey can do so with every class
- playing Mirage felt very clunky, there was no real flow felt
- I pretty much completely ignored shatter mechanic as it contradicts with Mirage heavily

Well yeah… I am depressed as I do not think I will be able to play my favorite class…. at least new map is gorgeous so I will enjoy it with some other toon.

Player plays the game. MetaKitten plays the DPS meter on the golem.

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Posted by: musu.9205

musu.9205

i will play Holosmith

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Posted by: green plum.7514

green plum.7514

While I understand your point about movement on dodge, there is also a reverse side. Dodging in place also means that I don’t need to get back in position. Which is great when you are using melee attacks. Using sword, I could stay on point much more reliably. And the new elite provides more then enough mobility if a blink is called for.

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Posted by: musu.9205

musu.9205

While I understand your point about movement on dodge, there is also a reverse side. Dodging in place also means that I don’t need to get back in position. Which is great when you are using melee attacks. Using sword, I could stay on point much more reliably. And the new elite provides more then enough mobility if a blink is called for.

again and again , elite is not a solution especially when mirage dodge is supposed to be upgrade to normal dodge and now we have to use an elite slot to deal with the huge downside lol . not to mention that elite does have cd .

where are more than enough mobility ? if you mean unreliable mobility which usually teleport you into random aoe then yes .(Iambush and axe 3 )

Dodge roll is much much reliable,it travels further overtime than those teleport from mirage and it doesn’t take any weapon slot or skill slot .something fancy like an teleport doesn’t mean they are practically more effective .

only reliable mobility is sword ambush , but why you play power mirage in pve ?
meh dmg comparing with core mes
meh defense comparing with chrono
no power aoe

if you want a leap in open world , have an ele friend or buy some consumables .

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Posted by: green plum.7514

green plum.7514

only reliable mobility is sword ambush , but why you play power mirage in pve ?

Because its fun For condi melee, I prefer Firebrand, much more satisfying.

As to mobility: Jaunt is strictly superior to Blink (stunrbeak aside), at least for the way I play the game.

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Posted by: Tongku.5326

Tongku.5326

So during the yesterday’s stress test I have tried my best to test Mirage in open world… and results are quite underwhelming. To me it is like adding Mirage to basic Mesmer is actually downgrade in many ways:

- Mirage cloak:
— loss of movement is TERRIBLE – I was getting hit by AoE’s all the time while on any other class I would be simply outside of the AoE thanks to normal dodge
— combine this with root while using scepter ambush (probably only ambush which is usable now) and result is terribad
— overall Mirage cloak is offensive tool and loss of dodge movement is crippling in aoe heavy environment
— fix would be easy – just add instant blink to Mirage cloak with dodge range – then Mirage Cloak will be purely advantageous compared to normal dodge

-Ambush skills
— not worth of using in most cases (except for scepter where the root while casting is terrible too)
- ambush window is way to short – some of the autoattack chains are actually longer (GS)

-Mirrors
— was not able to use them to any real advantage – may be L2P issue

Overall:
– I had no problem playing open PvE – but it is no achievement as one handed monkey can do so with every class
- playing Mirage felt very clunky, there was no real flow felt
- I pretty much completely ignored shatter mechanic as it contradicts with Mirage heavily

Well yeah… I am depressed as I do not think I will be able to play my favorite class…. at least new map is gorgeous so I will enjoy it with some other toon.

When the beta weekend was here I gave mirage a whirl in WVW and utterly hated it for the exact reasons you stated.

Lack of movement on dodge limits playability, can’t double dodge through chokes or through opponents, etc. Causes mispositioning.

The mirrors were completely useless. More often then not they would appear in middle of AOE fields where I was completely unable to get them cause insta death. This is FAR FAR FAR FAR worse then clones / phanatsms dying in zergs.

When you put the 2 together, mirrors in enemy AOE fields that insta kill + lack of mobility on dodge, its just screwed. Completely, totally and utterly.

I will absolutely not be playing a mirage in its current iteration until these 2 issues are solved, or not ever if they aren’t. Its way, way better to just stay with chrono.

And on top of that, axe felt extremely underwhelming. Also nearly a useless weapon due to enemy mobility and its range (or rather lack thereof).

So from my perspective, thumbs down for mirage.

Heavy Deedz – COSA – SF

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Posted by: musu.9205

musu.9205

only reliable mobility is sword ambush , but why you play power mirage in pve ?

Because its fun For condi melee, I prefer Firebrand, much more satisfying.

As to mobility: Jaunt is strictly superior to Blink (stunrbeak aside), at least for the way I play the game.

you can call any useless stuff fun . that does not change anything for rest of us .
I mean , its ok you personally found it fun to play which many mesmer main here would disagree . But it’s not an solid argument when we are discussing which works which doesn’t .

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Posted by: Hibiskus.8294

Hibiskus.8294

Well…i would play another class…if these points would happen:

1: the char needs to be lvl 80.
2: The char needs to have the same map completion as my mesmer.
3: the char needs to have the same story completion as my mesmer.
4: the char needs to have the same lvl for crafting as my mesmer.

So basiclly saying: i have no other char that is so far with the game like my mesmer….since i have not the story completed with my mesmer (i am half on the way)…i better play story instead of trying to power – lvl another char…..

also: they have said in the stress-test before yesterday…that they have made several changes to the classes based on the feedback…..but that this changes are NOT included in the stress tests….so that we see these changes the first time….on 22 september…

and that means for me: i will wait and hoping that these changes are good….

also: we have pink sparkling butterflies….and i am still hoping for dual dagger…and longbow….(longbow pircing shots pls…) and pistol main hand.

I stay with my mesmer…..but i dont wanna know how often i was dead while i was playing the story with my 4 pieces ventari gear…and berserker jewellery and backpack….and ok…2 pieces exotic gear and weapons…. i mean: i will totally change stats on my ventari gear since it feels useless for everything that has to do with hot…thoughness dont affekt conditions? well that means it is useless in hot…i will go with more power and vitality….

but yeah…after i played thief for a short time mesmer feels some sort of useless for me….it IS fun…but feeling useless, i mean:
thief dmg: high….mesmer dmg….well low compared to thief…..
thief heal: high…and every trait gives a bonus to healing….even without any healing stat ,that i have recordnized is useless too….the healing ammount that you get from this stat is to low,(i like the heals you get from every single critical hit for 15% from the critical dmg trait….why dont we have that for the sword trait line…it is close range…) also he has an heal that is not bound to the 6…….mesmer heal: bound to 6…most have high CD…and the only other “heal” is in focus traitline the restorative illusions….the heal ammount from that is even with scepter low.

only good thing compared to thief: condition clear…..restorative illusions…i dont find any good condi clear for thief compared to my mesmer…but…well for that you can not use warden´s feedback…sadly….

I really hope they dont change something else again on the mesmer call it a good improvement….and make it like my poor healing mantra that i now dont use anymore…i now use mirror as heal: better heal, better cd…no recharge time…

also: have you recordnized that guardian have basiclly 3 charges on their mantra elite?
we have lost our 3rd charge….and the good heal from the mantra…

Also i wish they would add a perma speed buff to a signet without loosing something for this change….

Maybe next time we get an elite…where we loose all our illusions but make more dmg, get more heal….and have other options than shatter….or we get a pink sparkling pets like a ranger…that stay permanent……maybe withan longbow elite…..ok…now i want a pink sparkling drake…..

But: mesmer is fun, mesmer is life…i will never give up my mesmer…..

(but there was a time after the mantra patch that i was thinking about it seriously…..that was the time where i tested the thief….)….

(edited by Hibiskus.8294)

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Posted by: Flarre.4850

Flarre.4850

So during the yesterday’s stress test I have tried my best to test Mirage in open world… and results are quite underwhelming. To me it is like adding Mirage to basic Mesmer is actually downgrade in many ways:

- Mirage cloak:
— loss of movement is TERRIBLE – I was getting hit by AoE’s all the time while on any other class I would be simply outside of the AoE thanks to normal dodge
.

And what about just walk while dodging?

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Posted by: zealex.9410

zealex.9410

So during the yesterday’s stress test I have tried my best to test Mirage in open world… and results are quite underwhelming. To me it is like adding Mirage to basic Mesmer is actually downgrade in many ways:

- Mirage cloak:
— loss of movement is TERRIBLE – I was getting hit by AoE’s all the time while on any other class I would be simply outside of the AoE thanks to normal dodge
— combine this with root while using scepter ambush (probably only ambush which is usable now) and result is terribad
— overall Mirage cloak is offensive tool and loss of dodge movement is crippling in aoe heavy environment
— fix would be easy – just add instant blink to Mirage cloak with dodge range – then Mirage Cloak will be purely advantageous compared to normal dodge

-Ambush skills
— not worth of using in most cases (except for scepter where the root while casting is terrible too)
- ambush window is way to short – some of the autoattack chains are actually longer (GS)

-Mirrors
— was not able to use them to any real advantage – may be L2P issue

Overall:
– I had no problem playing open PvE – but it is no achievement as one handed monkey can do so with every class
- playing Mirage felt very clunky, there was no real flow felt
- I pretty much completely ignored shatter mechanic as it contradicts with Mirage heavily

Well yeah… I am depressed as I do not think I will be able to play my favorite class…. at least new map is gorgeous so I will enjoy it with some other toon.

Adding a blink would defeat the purpose of the new dodge.

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Posted by: zealex.9410

zealex.9410

only reliable mobility is sword ambush , but why you play power mirage in pve ?

Because its fun For condi melee, I prefer Firebrand, much more satisfying.

As to mobility: Jaunt is strictly superior to Blink (stunrbeak aside), at least for the way I play the game.

Power anything is better in open world pve rather than condi. Mobs much squishier.

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Posted by: Ryouzanpaku.1273

Ryouzanpaku.1273

Adding a blink would defeat the purpose of the new dodge.

Why?
It should be quite easy to implement:
- you press dodge key without movement key depressed – Mirage cloak works as it is now
- you press dodge key WITH movement key depressed – you blink in the direction as you would dodge

Player plays the game. MetaKitten plays the DPS meter on the golem.

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Posted by: Carighan.6758

Carighan.6758

I’m still on the fence.

That is, whether my new main will be Holosmith, Scourge or Firebrand.

Mirage is just… you can notice that they had the name (and, most likely, nothing else) when they designed this. There’s no cohesive theme, no underpinning design, no nothing. A few random ideas which work against each other coupled with the usual what-if-a-Mesmer-kills-someone-in-PvP underbalance.

The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.

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Posted by: zealex.9410

zealex.9410

Adding a blink would defeat the purpose of the new dodge.

Why?
It should be quite easy to implement:
- you press dodge key without movement key depressed – Mirage cloak works as it is now
- you press dodge key WITH movement key depressed – you blink in the direction as you would dodge

The purpos of mirage cloack is to let u use skills during the evade frame blinking would take that away. And standing still to be able to use a skill would just be another blured frenzy. Instead just make superspeed work on every direction.

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Posted by: musu.9205

musu.9205

Adding a blink would defeat the purpose of the new dodge.

Why?
It should be quite easy to implement:
- you press dodge key without movement key depressed – Mirage cloak works as it is now
- you press dodge key WITH movement key depressed – you blink in the direction as you would dodge

The purpos of mirage cloack is to let u use skills during the evade frame blinking would take that away. And standing still to be able to use a skill would just be another blured frenzy. Instead just make superspeed work on every direction.

blink does not have a frame , blink is instantly what you are talking about ?

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Posted by: Handi.1685

Handi.1685

The problem with this endurence consuming thing ( hard to call it dodge) is, it wasn’ t and won’t fulfill its purpose, if you die from an aoe skill and the superspeed forgettable, i didn t noticed it was there or this evade incoming attacks what mirage cloak have to do .

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Posted by: zealex.9410

zealex.9410

Adding a blink would defeat the purpose of the new dodge.

Why?
It should be quite easy to implement:
- you press dodge key without movement key depressed – Mirage cloak works as it is now
- you press dodge key WITH movement key depressed – you blink in the direction as you would dodge

The purpos of mirage cloack is to let u use skills during the evade frame blinking would take that away. And standing still to be able to use a skill would just be another blured frenzy. Instead just make superspeed work on every direction.

blink does not have a frame , blink is instantly what you are talking about ?

Blink will interupt some action depending how long in the channel u are and what not. Plus blinking could also interupt ressing and fail to stomps etc.

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Posted by: musu.9205

musu.9205

Adding a blink would defeat the purpose of the new dodge.

Why?
It should be quite easy to implement:
- you press dodge key without movement key depressed – Mirage cloak works as it is now
- you press dodge key WITH movement key depressed – you blink in the direction as you would dodge

The purpos of mirage cloack is to let u use skills during the evade frame blinking would take that away. And standing still to be able to use a skill would just be another blured frenzy. Instead just make superspeed work on every direction.

blink does not have a frame , blink is instantly what you are talking about ?

Blink will interupt some action depending how long in the channel u are and what not. Plus blinking could also interupt ressing and fail to stomps etc.

nope , it does not interrupt any meaningful attack from mesmer.
and it does not interrupt res or stomp lol .

are you sure you are not thinking of decoy instead of blink ?

you can list one or record in game .

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Posted by: Fiskerton.2739

Fiskerton.2739

The minor grandmaster gives you superspeed every time you get mirage cloak (ie every time you dodge). you can literally walk the same distance as a dodge roll during this time while being invulnerable, but not interrupting anything you were doing. With Mirage you have to be moving pretty much constantly.

I agree most of the ambushes are kinda underwhelming, but they’re mostly just autos with something additional added. They’re not meant to be nukes or individual abilities, especially since they’re not cooldown gated, just endurance gated. Vigor is a lot easier to get than alacrity. The only thing I would change is to remove the root on scepter ambush.

When I tried Mirage, I basically focused on dealing as much condition damage along with Dune Cloak trait. Mirage can stack confusion like a mofo, I think it’s severely underestimated.

In any case, two days of testing isn’t enough to understand Mirage. It attempts to use things that haven’t been used in mesmer before.

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Posted by: musu.9205

musu.9205

The minor grandmaster gives you superspeed every time you get mirage cloak (ie every time you dodge). you can literally walk the same distance as a dodge roll during this time while being invulnerable, but not interrupting anything you were doing. With Mirage you have to be moving pretty much constantly.

I agree most of the ambushes are kinda underwhelming, but they’re mostly just autos with something additional added. They’re not meant to be nukes or individual abilities, especially since they’re not cooldown gated, just endurance gated. Vigor is a lot easier to get than alacrity. The only thing I would change is to remove the root on scepter ambush.

When I tried Mirage, I basically focused on dealing as much condition damage along with Dune Cloak trait. Mirage can stack confusion like a mofo, I think it’s severely underestimated.

In any case, two days of testing isn’t enough to understand Mirage. It attempts to use things that haven’t been used in mesmer before.

here we go again
superspeed does not work backward
maybe you guys should do a little bit more test before you came here and tell us , we don’t understand mirage lol

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Posted by: Durzlla.6295

Durzlla.6295

Adding a blink would defeat the purpose of the new dodge.

Why?
It should be quite easy to implement:
- you press dodge key without movement key depressed – Mirage cloak works as it is now
- you press dodge key WITH movement key depressed – you blink in the direction as you would dodge

The purpos of mirage cloack is to let u use skills during the evade frame blinking would take that away. And standing still to be able to use a skill would just be another blured frenzy. Instead just make superspeed work on every direction.

blink does not have a frame , blink is instantly what you are talking about ?

Blink will interupt some action depending how long in the channel u are and what not. Plus blinking could also interupt ressing and fail to stomps etc.

Actually, blinking while holding a key would be a huge upgrade, and would still let you just “hold your ground” if you wanted, and since blink does NOT interrupt actions, it would fit with the theme and make us even more slippery and annoying as a Mirage, especially if Infinite Horizon also blinked our clones.

I have phase retreat + Blink stomped so many people I can safely say it won’t interrupt anything.

Now, if Anet secretly reworked superspeed without telling everyone and it now works no matter what direction you’re moving in then we don’t NEED the blink, but until that happens…

They sing dark, delicious notes about power and family.
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna

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Posted by: Fiskerton.2739

Fiskerton.2739

superspeed does not work backward

Use the about-face button, or use the right click camera control.

(edited by Fiskerton.2739)

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Posted by: Imperadordf.2687

Imperadordf.2687

superspeed does not work backward

Use the about-face button, or use the right click camera control.

I mean, doesn’t Superspeed last 3/4 second?

Livia – Ring Of Fire

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Posted by: Durzlla.6295

Durzlla.6295

superspeed does not work backward

Use the about-face button, or use the right click camera control.

But then I can’t run away while channeling Conflunding Images/throwing out a skill at an enemy and I’m literally just dodging worse in every way than base Mesmer instead of taking advantage of the evade frames I can do whatever I want in.

They sing dark, delicious notes about power and family.
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna

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Posted by: Fiskerton.2739

Fiskerton.2739

superspeed does not work backward

Use the about-face button, or use the right click camera control.

But then I can’t run away while channeling Conflunding Images/throwing out a skill at an enemy and I’m literally just dodging worse in every way than base Mesmer instead of taking advantage of the evade frames I can do whatever I want in.

But you wouldn’t have been able to do those things dodging anyway. With Mirage Cloak, you can cast utility skills (especially heals and signets). With right click camera control, you can get a feel for how much of an angle you need to run to still keep a channel on an enemy, meaning you can run out of an aoe a lot faster, while invulnerable, and still be channeling on an enemy. A lot of times you want to dodge forward anyway to get in range for a shatter. You can combine Mirage Cloak with the ambushes (sword ambush for jump forward, scepter ambush for blink back) to move out of aoe while still attacking. There are a lot of things possible that simple roll dodging won’t let you do.

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Posted by: musu.9205

musu.9205

superspeed does not work backward

Use the about-face button, or use the right click camera control.

But then I can’t run away while channeling Conflunding Images/throwing out a skill at an enemy and I’m literally just dodging worse in every way than base Mesmer instead of taking advantage of the evade frames I can do whatever I want in.

But you wouldn’t have been able to do those things dodging anyway. With Mirage Cloak, you can cast utility skills (especially heals and signets). With right click camera control, you can get a feel for how much of an angle you need to run to still keep a channel on an enemy, meaning you can run out of an aoe a lot faster, while invulnerable, and still be channeling on an enemy. A lot of times you want to dodge forward anyway to get in range for a shatter. You can combine Mirage Cloak with the ambushes (sword ambush for jump forward, scepter ambush for blink back) to move out of aoe while still attacking. There are a lot of things possible that simple roll dodging won’t let you do.

for god sake
stay on topic you started
you said dodge on mirage with superspeed blabalaba useful
we said you are wrong
can u guys please , don’t even start those pointless mirror ambush etc things

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Posted by: Durzlla.6295

Durzlla.6295

superspeed does not work backward

Use the about-face button, or use the right click camera control.

But then I can’t run away while channeling Conflunding Images/throwing out a skill at an enemy and I’m literally just dodging worse in every way than base Mesmer instead of taking advantage of the evade frames I can do whatever I want in.

But you wouldn’t have been able to do those things dodging anyway. With Mirage Cloak, you can cast utility skills (especially heals and signets). With right click camera control, you can get a feel for how much of an angle you need to run to still keep a channel on an enemy, meaning you can run out of an aoe a lot faster, while invulnerable, and still be channeling on an enemy. A lot of times you want to dodge forward anyway to get in range for a shatter. You can combine Mirage Cloak with the ambushes (sword ambush for jump forward, scepter ambush for blink back) to move out of aoe while still attacking. There are a lot of things possible that simple roll dodging won’t let you do.

Yeah, I don’t care if I can use some gimmicky method to attack while dodging in any direction but forward, the selling point of Mirage is to be able to evade while doing anything, so if I’m giving up my dodge roll to be able do stuff, and then giving up one of my minors so I move fast while evading I expect to be able to go in any direction without having to about face, and ambush skill to get where I’m wanting to go.

They sing dark, delicious notes about power and family.
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna

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Posted by: Allarius.5670

Allarius.5670

During the first stress test I had the same problem and tried to find ways to work around it that were provided by baseline mesmer or via mirage. It felt really weird to unlearn dodge movement reliance at first.

Movement ambushes: sword, scepter

Movement weapon skills: sword 3, axe 2 and 3, staff 2

Movement utility skills: blink, illusionary ambush, sand through glass, mirage advance, jaunt

Combining these with mirror generation provided adequate defense to pivot around to avoid aoe or just evade through it with mirage cloak and skill evasions. It even had an interesting rhythm to it and generally allowed for continued attacking in one form or another. I was trying to focus on axe play, so staying in melee and avoiding attacks required weaving a lot of this together.

I’m not defending mirage or commenting on its state in any fashion, I’m just describing what I found I had to do to work with it in PvE only, specifically the big bads from the bounties.

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Posted by: Daishi.6027

Daishi.6027

I’m disappointed with mirage too for a lot of reasons.

I haven’t had a chance to play it in the open world stress tests, but I thought the super speed made up for the distance pretty well? But maybe it only felt ok for PvP.

“I control time and space; you can’t break free.~”
“Maybe I was the illusion all along!”

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Posted by: Sovereign.8152

Sovereign.8152

I think he could be onto something with the “blink dodge” suggestion.

Think about it, it would blink you only as far as a roll would have taken you so it’s not a mobility buff. You would also only receive the same iframes as you would with a roll or mirage cloak… so no net gain. Animation change and mobility fix only.

But here’s the awesome bit:
What if it looked exactly like the clone creation animation?

Imagine it, if you have deceptive evasion, you would leave a clone behind, in your place, and it would appear to your enemy that the clone created you as a clone, making it that much harder to identify which one is the real Mesmer.

It’s genius and plays right into the deceptive Mirage theme.

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Posted by: TheOneWhoSighs.7513

TheOneWhoSighs.7513

I think he could be onto something with the “blink dodge” suggestion.

Think about it, it would blink you only as far as a roll would have taken you so it’s not a mobility buff. You would also only receive the same iframes as you would with a roll or mirage cloak… so no net gain. Animation change and mobility fix only.

But here’s the awesome bit:
What if it looked exactly like the clone creation animation?

Imagine it, if you have deceptive evasion, you would leave a clone behind, in your place, and it would appear to your enemy that the clone created you as a clone, making it that much harder to identify which one is the real Mesmer.

It’s genius and plays right into the deceptive Mirage theme.

Counter argument:

The entire game would light ablaze as people complained that Mesmer has “Unlimited blinks”.

2 blinks on dodge, a long range blink utility, 3 blinks on elite, 2 utilities that blink toward an enemy, 2 more blinks on dodges, sword 3 blink, staff 2 blink

ALL THE BLINKS! UNLIMITED BLINKS!!!!!!!!

Add in sword ambushes and dear god, truly everyone would complain about the Nike Mesmer.

“Unused Development Initiative. We care so much
about your feedback, that we don’t even read it.” ~ Crystal Suzuki

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Posted by: Sovereign.8152

Sovereign.8152

Counter argument:

The entire game would light ablaze as people complained that Mesmer has “Unlimited blinks”.

2 blinks on dodge, a long range blink utility, 3 blinks on elite, 2 utilities that blink toward an enemy, 2 more blinks on dodges, sword 3 blink, staff 2 blink

ALL THE BLINKS! UNLIMITED BLINKS!!!!!!!!

Add in sword ambushes and dear god, truly everyone would complain about the Nike Mesmer.

The same argument can be made for blur/distortion right now, other than an elite… But I would argue that the stupid 3 confusion “blink” elite needs rework or even complete revamp anyway…

What I am talking about is not incremental functionality, it’s thematic only. If you think about it, why did they mess with our evade roll anyway? It’s thematic! They just under-tuned it and removed mobility. What we’re discussing here is how to regain that mobility while keeping the interesting thematic additions of the Mirage.

Maybe “blink” is not the right word as it’s not blink distance, it’s roll distance with the clone creation animation.

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Posted by: Carighan.6758

Carighan.6758

The “adds insult to injury” is that they’re conceptually not that far away from a decent spec.

Stronger ambush skills across the board, longer mirror duration, more mirror generation and a “solution” for shatter skills (like not giving them to mirage, instead offering extra mirror generation through 1-3 F-skills), and it’d be a kitten nice spec.

The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.

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Posted by: rabidsmiles.5926

rabidsmiles.5926

At first, I was like ok…thematically it’s kinda cool but then I logged in for the beta and found out my kitten scepter now roots me for the ambush. WTF? I play scepter because it doesn’t root me like the sword does but now Mirage is messing with my favorite weapon. Nope, forget that.

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Posted by: Kain Francois.4328

Kain Francois.4328

Simple way to fix Mirage: Remove Ambush skills. Instead, your autoattacks gain additional effects. Scepter gets the improved projectile, Greatsword gets the laser beam that dazes, Axe can still have the Mirage Axes flying around.

No more rooting in place with scepter, no more leaping off a cliff (or rooting you) with sword.

Boom, mirage is half-fixed. Can I haz a cookie?

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Posted by: Elessaria.9142

Elessaria.9142

To be fair, Superspeed as a GM minor is just a lazy ass fudge factor. Mirage Cloak should just last 1s, and have a native speed effect that is 150% of normal movement speed; and Infinite Horizon should be the minor.

Then you can still retain defensive mobility of the dodge button, and they can properly balance the Ambushes on the assumption that you will have 4 entities executing it, instead of balancing them on the possibility, and shafting anyone who doesn’t take that GM trait.

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Posted by: Carighan.6758

Carighan.6758

and they can properly balance the Ambushes on the assumption that you will have 4 entities executing it, instead of balancing them on the possibility, and shafting anyone who doesn’t take that GM trait.

Well frankly, right now anything other than Scepter feels balanced for having between 7 and 10 clones …

The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.

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Posted by: Ohoni.6057

Ohoni.6057

Honestly, when I first heard about Mirage, I had the same reaction as the OP “but I LIKE to move when I dodge!” But after playing it, I think this is ok as it is. It just requires rewiring your brain a bit. It provides Superspeed and evade, so if you want to move outside a circle, you still can, it just requires manually running out of the circle while in your evade frames. Now maybe they could tweak the numbers here, more Superspeed, for example, and maybe they could provide better Endurance management, but once I got used to playing that way, it wasn’t nearly as big an issue as I thought, and they definitely don’t need to give Dodge a blink-like effect.

To be fair, Superspeed as a GM minor is just a lazy ass fudge factor.

I’ve never understood complaints about what ends up in a minor. Sure, it was an issue back when you had to pick and choose what to put points into, but ever since the NPE you’ll be getting the minors no matter what. They can put as much or as little into each minor as they feel you should have. They could have a Master minor that has a ton of stuff and a GM minor that says “I don’t know, your feet glow or something,” and fair enough. It really doesn’t matter what they put into the minors or not, so long as the sum total of the passive benefits add up to a balanced result, and in this case, they thought that “Gain Superspeed when you gain Mirage Cloak” was enough. They could add more effects to that minor, or move it elsewhere, it would not make a difference on their end.

“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”

(edited by Ohoni.6057)

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Posted by: Ryouzanpaku.1273

Ryouzanpaku.1273

Honestly, when I first heard about Mirage, I had the same reaction as the OP “but I LIKE to move when I dodge!” But after playing it, I think this is ok as it is. It just requires rewiring your brain a bit. It provides Superspeed and evade, so if you want to move outside a circle, you still can, it just requires manually running out of the circle while in your evade frames.

I am probably repeating myself (and others) – but superspeed is not good replacement for standard dodge animation – reason is lowered speed when strafing & backpedaling.
Result of this mechanic is that you can move approx same range when going forward in Mirage Cloak (not really much usable when ""dodging") slower to the sides and reaaaaly slow backwards. Overall it is a huge downgrade for in-combat mobility.

I still think instant blink in exact range of dodge would be better solution. (And no it would not be downgrade for melee if blink would not happen without wasd pressed).

IMHO new class mechanic should be pure update (waves at Daredevil) and not partial update in some cases and downgrade in the others.

Player plays the game. MetaKitten plays the DPS meter on the golem.

(edited by Ryouzanpaku.1273)

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Posted by: zealex.9410

zealex.9410

and they can properly balance the Ambushes on the assumption that you will have 4 entities executing it, instead of balancing them on the possibility, and shafting anyone who doesn’t take that GM trait.

Well frankly, right now anything other than Scepter feels balanced for having between 7 and 10 clones …

Idk sword ambush wirked fine when i was using it by myself.

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Posted by: zealex.9410

zealex.9410

Honestly, when I first heard about Mirage, I had the same reaction as the OP “but I LIKE to move when I dodge!” But after playing it, I think this is ok as it is. It just requires rewiring your brain a bit. It provides Superspeed and evade, so if you want to move outside a circle, you still can, it just requires manually running out of the circle while in your evade frames.

I am probably repeating myself (and others) – but superspeed is not good replacement for standard dodge animation – reason is lowered speed when strafing & backpedaling.
Result of this mechanic is that you can move approx same range when going forward in Mirage Cloak (not really much usable when ""dodging") slower to the sides and reaaaaly slow backwards. Overall it is a huge downgrade for in-combat mobility.

I still think instant blink in exact range of dodge would be better solution. (And no it would not be downgrade for melee if blink would not happen without wasd pressed).

IMHO new class mechanic should be pure update (waves at Daredevil) and not partial update in some cases and downgrade in the others.

Just making superspeed aply to all directions is enough.

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Posted by: Ryouzanpaku.1273

Ryouzanpaku.1273

Just making superspeed aply to all directions is enough.

Well (again IMHO) short range directional blink would be SOOO MUCH COOLER
But I would be ok with superspeed working in all directions – just do not want to loose any mobility as class mechanic “bonus”….

Player plays the game. MetaKitten plays the DPS meter on the golem.

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Posted by: zealex.9410

zealex.9410

Just making superspeed aply to all directions is enough.

Well (again IMHO) short range directional blink would be SOOO MUCH COOLER
But I would be ok with superspeed working in all directions – just do not want to loose any mobility as class mechanic “bonus”….

It takes away alot of the freedom tha having complete freedom to cast provides. And you really dont lose all that much mobility (in specific raid encounters i can see that). But in pvp wvw its a straight upgrade. Also quite a few utils give u mobility and axe/ sword also have movility to them.

But ye all directions superspeed would be nice. All directions blink would also be neat but somewhat more limiting imo.

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Posted by: Ohoni.6057

Ohoni.6057

I am probably repeating myself (and others) – but superspeed is not good replacement for standard dodge animation – reason is lowered speed when strafing & backpedaling.
Result of this mechanic is that you can move approx same range when going forward in Mirage Cloak (not really much usable when ""dodging") slower to the sides and reaaaaly slow backwards. Overall it is a huge downgrade for in-combat mobility.

Ok, so if they could give you free range of movement, backpeddle at 100% speed, they would be enough? That could actually be a big improvement over standard dodge in some cases, since you could fully control your movement. You’d never overshoot and could move in “L” patterns.

Now I agree that a dodge/blink would be “cool,” but it’s clearly not what they were going for here, so if Mesmers do get it, it would likely be in a different spec entirely. Besides, you have Jaunt if you want to blink-dodge around.

IMHO new class mechanic should be pure update (waves at Daredevil) and not partial update in some cases and downgrade in the others.

Keep in mind, Daredevil was only a “pure upgrade” because a few months earlier they nerfed the core traitlines significantly. You don’t want that kind of “purity.”

“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”

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Posted by: Mayama.1854

Mayama.1854

I played mirage only in pvp/wvw and I think mirage cloak combined with the elite port is crazy good, like almost broken. Especially in 1v1.