Guild Wars 2

Me Games Ma.8426:

Daishi.6027:

Levetty.1279:

Btw Mirror seems to be those prisms that you can create that if you run into gives you the new evade, gives enemies weakness and does a absolutly massive 80 damage. Thats your kittening DPS spec people, a utility that does 80 damage and a weapon that does 600 and people are already calling it OP. kittening amazing.

My question to those people is how is any of this more OP than current DD?

Do you guys know what gear WP wore when he was playing with mirage? How can you talk about damage values? (but yeah 80dmg on the mirror is a joke tbh)

1k power (so base) ~1.5k condi dmg and ~50% condi duration.

The 80 damage isn’t where the dmg of mirror is supposed to come from. If anything, I think it’s meant to prevent the PU builds people are so scared of as the 80 mirror dmg will reveal the Mirage. The dmg of mirror is that it procs ambushes.

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

hmmm I can sort of see dueling/mirage and possibly illusions for another pvp condi spec, seeing how dueling gives vigor and synergise with bleed on dodging.

It could also work with raid if there are something else to buff dps. Condi mesmer dps is around 12k short from top, maybe something else could help? Haven’t seen any builds that can replace chrono’s utility in raid group though, so we either get >2 mesmers if dps holds up or falls back to our old job.

Decided to really absorb the wp video and think about raid builds further. The base condi mesmer, is as you say 12k behind. It also has a useless elite and utility spot as well as Chaos, which is really close to useless too. Furthermore, everyone acts like this is a clone spec. It’s not.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/163637673
2:10:11. Read the text carefully. The scepter ambush skill hits 5 times from both the mesmer and phantasms (clones do half condi duration) that applies 5 seconds of confusion or 4 seconds of torment base duration. So 100% duration with viper gear will be 10 confusion or 8 torment duration. The Ether Barrage hits 5 times! So 20 hits total from this skill every time you dodge with 3 phantasms up. 15 potential procs of sharper images too!

This doesn’t replace unload. Unload happens. And then you dodge and you and your phantasms do this barrage. And then you dodge again and they do the barrage again.
And then they unload again. Sigil of energy/perma vigor from dueling to keep dodging. And then you have utilities. If you’re really fast with the pause, I saw one called crystal sands which applies confusion and also forms another mirage mirror which gives another ambush attack. So now you have a utility slot and possible an elite (which has 3 charges) that can also proc more ambushes.

Regardless, there is no way this build doesn’t end up doing at least 5-6k more than base condi mesmer. I’m pretty sure it’ll be at least 10-20k more. Axe 3 is of course also great for allowing phantasms to refocus target.

To be clear, I don’t think the condie application that we’ve seen so far even flirts with op, especially considering how potent the condie application of classes is already. What WP did to the target golem was rather unimpressive by the standard of target golem condie loading, any good condie class would blow that out of the water. The strong aspects of mirage are the retargeting and detarget with the extra mobility. That one stunbreak on dodge trait is busted too.

Me Games Ma.8426:

Levetty.1279:

http://i.imgur.com/FValrpB.png

Tell me what gear is going to boost those numbers above joke values. I can run other classes naked and get more damage out of thier defense or support weapons then we get out of our DPS weapon.

Viper. I don’t see your problem. Look at the 3rd autoattacks condition doration. Yes the ramp time will be long but the values aren’t a problem i think.

Heres the skills for Ranger’s new melee condi weapon for comparison.
https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/240994/soulbeast_auto.png

Meta chronophantasm build can hold its own relatively well. But thief is still definitely the No.1 threat.

Current D/P thief can completely shut down mesmer phantasm generation with ease.

Staff 3 = easy interrupt.

Shield 4, thief can either dodge or just D/P3 blind the phantasm generation.

The only phantasm mesmer can reliably generate against thief is defender

Without phantasm, mesmer has no damage or sustain at all. Condition chrono does have okay AA damage pressure so it is not all that bad. Thief’s only chance of either dying or eating massive damage is getting stunlocked by shield 5. But that is really the only thing that can threaten thief.

I just think clones will fool no one but baddies.
Detarget will be pointless if one can retarget instantly, just duel with mouse houvering on top of mesmer.
That accounting the fact that you are a good player and dont play with auto target.
Cause baddies and auto target… It May even help them.
Sustain loss of Shield block, longer cooldowns and no CP/IR/alacrity/shield illu regeneration to fuel restorative shatters trait, healing well for better heal and built in condi clear… Im predicting hard days for mirage to survive, at least now theorycrafting with what we know.

A few things to note:

1) The Grandmaster Minor may help with the lack of innate movement with the dodge. Still no dodge jumping in the traditional sense, but maybe this helps make up for it to a degree:

Grandmaster Minor: Speed of Sand – Gain Superspeed (0.75 sec) when you gain mirage cloak

2) From Wooden Potato’s explanation, it would seem the Ambush skill only works on clones, not phantasms, because it alters the auto attack shared with the clones.

3) Two skills that we know of so far that detarget: Axe 3 and (based on Wooden Potato’s explanation) the Elite (max 3 charges). It turns out that each skill also applies a random shadow step mechanic with the mesmer AND clones (like a visual reset). This means that re-targeting the mesmer will not be immediate and a delay will exist, more so depending on where the shadow step has put the mesmer.

Axes of Symmetry: You and all your axe clones shadowstep to a random location around your target and strike, applying confusion. This attack breaks enemy targeting, and your illusions change focus to the targeted foe.

You and your AXE CLONES. Not phantasms, not other wep clones.
Detarget in meaningless for small scale pvp if you can retarget instantly after. Maybe in wvw blobs will be annoying.
Unless it locks like taunt….. Its meh and ppl will get used to it. More of a l2p issue.

According to WP, the dodge untargets you. It’s implied that that the “Mirage Cloak” is ALSO given to your clones.

Thus, you look identical to your clones while dodging if you do not move. It seems like an attempt by ANET to make Mesmer actually confusing to other players.

FJSAMA.2867:

You and your AXE CLONES. Not phantasms, not other wep clones.
Detarget in meaningless for small scale pvp if you can retarget instantly after. Maybe in wvw blobs will be annoying.
Unless it locks like taunt….. Its meh and ppl will get used to it. More of a l2p issue.

Axe clones are still possible to generate instantly through skills like Mirror Images. Retargetting when you have three identical Mesmers adjacent to you is trickier than you think.

It’s worthless in a WvW blob, though, where clones are instantly blown up.

No dodge jumping on a mirage. It’s daredevil all over again!

Me Games Ma.8426:

Adding to the List of stuff:

• An interesting trait that recharges on shatter – source
• The grandmaster trait that makes your clones strong – source
• To go PvE Grandmaster – source

I’m an idiot and didn’t see it before, but that just said that when you gain Mirage Cloak, your illusions get it, which means phantasms. Phantasm build support?

Dondagora.9645:

Me Games Ma.8426:

Adding to the List of stuff:

• An interesting trait that recharges on shatter – source
• The grandmaster trait that makes your clones strong – source
• To go PvE Grandmaster – source

I’m an idiot and didn’t see it before, but that just said that when you gain Mirage Cloak, your illusions get it, which means phantasms. Phantasm build support?

Phantasms get it, but they don’t get ambush attacks.

Ithilwen.1529:

According to WP, the dodge untargets you. It’s implied that that the “Mirage Cloak” is ALSO given to your clones.

Thus, you look identical to your clones while dodging if you do not move. It seems like an attempt by ANET to make Mesmer actually confusing to other players.

I must have missed the info about the mirage cloak breaking target. Will have to go back and watch again.

If this is true then I dunno – it would be equally annoying to fight against. Just imagine how many times you’d have to retarget. I mean I like the idea for myself playing, but not sure if I’d want to fight against such a mechanic that can be used so often with dodge.

I’m pretty sure WP said only axe #3 breaks target and that it would be nice if the elite did, too, not that it does.

I kinda like the minor trait that gives you super speed when dodging. Kinda imitates the little movement speed you get from dodgerolling in combat.

However, wouldn’t that also make it easier to see who the real mesmer is? (the one that runs faster than the clones.)

glenndevis.8327:

I kinda like the minor trait that gives you super speed when dodging. Kinda imitates the little movement speed you get from dodgerolling in combat.

However, wouldn’t that also make it easier to see who the real mesmer is? (the one that runs faster than the clones.)

The one running, fast or not, is the real mesmer, as clones generally are stationary.

In any case, there’s a trait that makes clones dodge, too, so they would gain superspeed.

RabbitUp.8294:

Dondagora.9645:

Me Games Ma.8426:

Adding to the List of stuff:

• An interesting trait that recharges on shatter – source
• The grandmaster trait that makes your clones strong – source
• To go PvE Grandmaster – source

I’m an idiot and didn’t see it before, but that just said that when you gain Mirage Cloak, your illusions get it, which means phantasms. Phantasm build support?

Phantasms get it, but they don’t get ambush attacks.

Haven’t seen anything that says phantasms won’t get the ambush too

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

RabbitUp.8294:

Dondagora.9645:

Me Games Ma.8426:

Adding to the List of stuff:

• An interesting trait that recharges on shatter – source
• The grandmaster trait that makes your clones strong – source
• To go PvE Grandmaster – source

I’m an idiot and didn’t see it before, but that just said that when you gain Mirage Cloak, your illusions get it, which means phantasms. Phantasm build support?

Phantasms get it, but they don’t get ambush attacks.

Haven’t seen anything that says phantasms won’t get the ambush too

Ambush is a skill which replaces your Autoattack when you enter Mirage Cloak. Clones just autoattack. When you Mirage Cloak, giving your clones Mirage Cloak, the clones then Ambush. Phantasms have a unique skill, so no Ambush for them, even if they get Mirage Cloak.

If Phantasms have a unique Ambush, that’d be awesome, but I think it should be assumed that they don’t.

think of it more like your dodge is replaced with Distortion and all the sudden it feels a hell of a lot more powerful

Its replaced with blur, important distinction. Blur doesn’t keep you from contesting nodes, distortion does. So pray that ANet doesn’t nerf this to be a distortion effect (especially since that would trivialize distortion share. No longer needing a bar full of signets).

if you really need to move in emergency, use skills that teleport (blink, staff 2, portal)

Did some1 already ask the actual most important question? What is with dodge jump? As I recall ‘dodge jump’ jumps a bit higher than normal jump (at least that’s what we figured when doing the adventure box thingy). So will ‘mirage cloak jump’ also jump higher?

TyPin.9860:

Did some1 already ask the actual most important question? What is with dodge jump? As I recall ‘dodge jump’ jumps a bit higher than normal jump (at least that’s what we figured when doing the adventure box thingy). So will ‘mirage cloak jump’ also jump higher?

It goes farther than a normal dodge, it doesn’t go higher than a normal jump.

Fay.2357:

TyPin.9860:

Did some1 already ask the actual most important question? What is with dodge jump? As I recall ‘dodge jump’ jumps a bit higher than normal jump (at least that’s what we figured when doing the adventure box thingy). So will ‘mirage cloak jump’ also jump higher?

It goes farther than a normal dodge, it doesn’t go higher than a normal jump.

hm… So then ‘mirage cloak jump’ won’t do anything? Since you move with superspeed on ground and in the air the the in the same manner?

You know the more I think of it, the more I’m going to miss normal dodge – more for the animations.

I love the asura aerial dodge animation and it’s going to be very weird to let that go.

TyPin.9860:

Did some1 already ask the actual most important question? What is with dodge jump? As I recall ‘dodge jump’ jumps a bit higher than normal jump (at least that’s what we figured when doing the adventure box thingy). So will ‘mirage cloak jump’ also jump higher?

Dodge jump is overrated. What it does is that for the duration, you move as if you had swiftness. It’s good in SAB because you can’t have movement speed bonuses, but if you do, there’s no benefit to it. And of course, in competitive modes, if you are airborne, you are vulnerable, so dodge jumping gives you evade frames.

From what we’ve seen so far, you can move (and probably jump) freely while dodging as mirage, and you get superspeed, so movement speed is not an issue.

OriOri.8724:

Its replaced with blur, important distinction. Blur doesn’t keep you from contesting nodes, distortion does. So pray that ANet doesn’t nerf this to be a distortion effect (especially since that would trivialize distortion share. No longer needing a bar full of signets).

I believe its blur mainly because they thought of pvp. As with most of the elite specs of this expac there seems to be a big focus of pvp.

Fay.2357:

TyPin.9860:

Did some1 already ask the actual most important question? What is with dodge jump? As I recall ‘dodge jump’ jumps a bit higher than normal jump (at least that’s what we figured when doing the adventure box thingy). So will ‘mirage cloak jump’ also jump higher?

It goes farther than a normal dodge, it doesn’t go higher than a normal jump.

Still tho iirc dodge jump helps you get to various kiting spots in pvp does this ean that mirage will just suck at it now?

zealex.9410:

Fay.2357:

TyPin.9860:

Did some1 already ask the actual most important question? What is with dodge jump? As I recall ‘dodge jump’ jumps a bit higher than normal jump (at least that’s what we figured when doing the adventure box thingy). So will ‘mirage cloak jump’ also jump higher?

It goes farther than a normal dodge, it doesn’t go higher than a normal jump.

Still tho iirc dodge jump helps you get to various kiting spots in pvp does this ean that mirage will just suck at it now?

Mirage should be able to straight up jump and dodge in midair while jumping. It’ll be way easier.

Fay.2357:

zealex.9410:

Fay.2357:

TyPin.9860:

Did some1 already ask the actual most important question? What is with dodge jump? As I recall ‘dodge jump’ jumps a bit higher than normal jump (at least that’s what we figured when doing the adventure box thingy). So will ‘mirage cloak jump’ also jump higher?

It goes farther than a normal dodge, it doesn’t go higher than a normal jump.

Still tho iirc dodge jump helps you get to various kiting spots in pvp does this ean that mirage will just suck at it now?

Mirage should be able to straight up jump and dodge in midair while jumping. It’ll be way easier.

Well yeah i suppose you can blur mid jump but thats not what i meant.

While i was looking on guides for propper kiting and repositioning in pvp the guide said alot of jump just aint possible without the added distance of the dodgejump. Thats whay im curious about does this mean no longer dostance boost by dodgejumping?

zealex.9410:

Fay.2357:

zealex.9410:

Fay.2357:

TyPin.9860:

Did some1 already ask the actual most important question? What is with dodge jump? As I recall ‘dodge jump’ jumps a bit higher than normal jump (at least that’s what we figured when doing the adventure box thingy). So will ‘mirage cloak jump’ also jump higher?

It goes farther than a normal dodge, it doesn’t go higher than a normal jump.

Still tho iirc dodge jump helps you get to various kiting spots in pvp does this ean that mirage will just suck at it now?

Mirage should be able to straight up jump and dodge in midair while jumping. It’ll be way easier.

Well yeah i suppose you can blur mid jump but thats not what i meant.

While i was looking on guides for propper kiting and repositioning in pvp the guide said alot of jump just aint possible without the added distance of the dodgejump. Thats whay im curious about does this mean no longer dostance boost by dodgejumping?

I’m pretty certain that dodge jumping doesn’t give a distance gain over normal jumping. It protects the jump and gives a distance gain over dodging.

Fay.2357:

zealex.9410:

Fay.2357:

zealex.9410:

Fay.2357:

TyPin.9860:

Did some1 already ask the actual most important question? What is with dodge jump? As I recall ‘dodge jump’ jumps a bit higher than normal jump (at least that’s what we figured when doing the adventure box thingy). So will ‘mirage cloak jump’ also jump higher?

It goes farther than a normal dodge, it doesn’t go higher than a normal jump.

Still tho iirc dodge jump helps you get to various kiting spots in pvp does this ean that mirage will just suck at it now?

Mirage should be able to straight up jump and dodge in midair while jumping. It’ll be way easier.

Well yeah i suppose you can blur mid jump but thats not what i meant.

While i was looking on guides for propper kiting and repositioning in pvp the guide said alot of jump just aint possible without the added distance of the dodgejump. Thats whay im curious about does this mean no longer dostance boost by dodgejumping?

I’m pretty certain that dodge jumping doesn’t give a distance gain over normal jumping. It protects the jump and gives a distance gain over dodging.

Then why would ppl use dodge jump skips in Sab which the normal jump cant reach?

zealex.9410:

Fay.2357:

zealex.9410:

Fay.2357:

zealex.9410:

Fay.2357:

TyPin.9860:

Did some1 already ask the actual most important question? What is with dodge jump? As I recall ‘dodge jump’ jumps a bit higher than normal jump (at least that’s what we figured when doing the adventure box thingy). So will ‘mirage cloak jump’ also jump higher?

It goes farther than a normal dodge, it doesn’t go higher than a normal jump.

Still tho iirc dodge jump helps you get to various kiting spots in pvp does this ean that mirage will just suck at it now?

Mirage should be able to straight up jump and dodge in midair while jumping. It’ll be way easier.

Well yeah i suppose you can blur mid jump but thats not what i meant.

While i was looking on guides for propper kiting and repositioning in pvp the guide said alot of jump just aint possible without the added distance of the dodgejump. Thats whay im curious about does this mean no longer dostance boost by dodgejumping?

I’m pretty certain that dodge jumping doesn’t give a distance gain over normal jumping. It protects the jump and gives a distance gain over dodging.

Then why would ppl use dodge jump skips in Sab which the normal jump cant reach?

You don’t need to do dodge jumps, lol.

Curunen.8729:

You know the more I think of it, the more I’m going to miss normal dodge – more for the animations.

Luckily, they are just a respec away. And since all things point to us still playing boon share in PvE, you’ll get plenty time with the normal dodge

Carighan.6758:

Curunen.8729:

You know the more I think of it, the more I’m going to miss normal dodge – more for the animations.

Luckily, they are just a respec away. And since all things point to us still playing boon share in PvE, you’ll get plenty time with the normal dodge

Well I don’t play raids or challenge mode high end fractals (because I don’t like being dictated to by a meta and being forced into a certain playstyle to enable other players to chip away at bullet sponge npcs with millions of hp and contrived but predictable mechanics /end rant!) so I usually use the same gear and similar build in open world pve as I do for wvw roaming, just with a couple of weapon/skill/trait changes if I wanted to play (casual) fractals, for the sake of variety so I don’t grow bored of the build. At least even in pvp you have some flexibility if wanting to play ranked as you don’t have to follow a rigid meta like in instanced endgame pve.

Tbh I like to and usually focus on creating a single preferred build in any kind of action rpg and my whole MO is iterating a single build until I get closer to something that provides me with the most enjoyment and that I feel is a best expression of my personality. It’s just how I like to play.

So what this means is I very likely will lean strongly towards a single elite spec as preference and outside of some fun/variety in casual open world pve won’t switch between them often.

Fay.2357:

zealex.9410:

Fay.2357:

zealex.9410:

Fay.2357:

zealex.9410:

Fay.2357:

TyPin.9860:

Did some1 already ask the actual most important question? What is with dodge jump? As I recall ‘dodge jump’ jumps a bit higher than normal jump (at least that’s what we figured when doing the adventure box thingy). So will ‘mirage cloak jump’ also jump higher?

It goes farther than a normal dodge, it doesn’t go higher than a normal jump.

Still tho iirc dodge jump helps you get to various kiting spots in pvp does this ean that mirage will just suck at it now?

Mirage should be able to straight up jump and dodge in midair while jumping. It’ll be way easier.

Well yeah i suppose you can blur mid jump but thats not what i meant.

While i was looking on guides for propper kiting and repositioning in pvp the guide said alot of jump just aint possible without the added distance of the dodgejump. Thats whay im curious about does this mean no longer dostance boost by dodgejumping?

I’m pretty certain that dodge jumping doesn’t give a distance gain over normal jumping. It protects the jump and gives a distance gain over dodging.

Then why would ppl use dodge jump skips in Sab which the normal jump cant reach?

You don’t need to do dodge jumps, lol.

Dodge jump actually give a speed/distance increase from the normal jump but it doesnt travel more than a dodge.

With dodge jumps you travel more distance because dodging is faster that walking.
It’s like jumping with swiftness or superspeed. It will get you further than jumping normally.

Fay.2357:

To be clear, I don’t think the condie application that we’ve seen so far even flirts with op, especially considering how potent the condie application of classes is already. What WP did to the target golem was rather unimpressive by the standard of target golem condie loading, any good condie class would blow that out of the water. The strong aspects of mirage are the retargeting and detarget with the extra mobility. That one stunbreak on dodge trait is busted too.

So you are working on another Immortal Mesmer build? Distortion + blur + mirage?

It’s interesting that the big clone burst coincides with dodge. If an opponent is attacking, there best defensive modes aren’t available.

We will attack and defend in the same moment.

I see some potentially big kills here.

Dodging while ressing…….

Me Games Ma.8426:

With dodge jumps you travel more distance because dodging is faster that walking.
It’s like jumping with swiftness or superspeed. It will get you further than jumping normally.

Exactly, which is why dodge jumping doesn’t make a difference if you do have swiftness. And mirage gets superspeed when dodging.

RabbitUp.8294:

Me Games Ma.8426:

With dodge jumps you travel more distance because dodging is faster that walking.
It’s like jumping with swiftness or superspeed. It will get you further than jumping normally.

Exactly, which is why dodge jumping doesn’t make a difference if you do have swiftness. And mirage gets superspeed when dodging.

Isnt dodge supposed to root you for the dur?

zealex.9410:

RabbitUp.8294:

Me Games Ma.8426:

With dodge jumps you travel more distance because dodging is faster that walking.
It’s like jumping with swiftness or superspeed. It will get you further than jumping normally.

Exactly, which is why dodge jumping doesn’t make a difference if you do have swiftness. And mirage gets superspeed when dodging.

Isnt dodge supposed to root you for the dur?

wat

Lily.1935:

Dodging while ressing…….

Dodging while stomping…… <3

Me Games Ma.8426:

Lily.1935:

Dodging while ressing…….

Dodging while stomping…… <3

lol I hope they don’t nerf either of those possibilities – sounds like too much fun. xD

Curunen.8729:

Me Games Ma.8426:

Lily.1935:

Dodging while ressing…….

Dodging while stomping…… <3

lol I hope they don’t nerf either of those possibilities – sounds like too much fun. xD

Ditto. It seems like an obvious core feature for mirage and I’d like to think that’s why they made that. Also dodging and mantra casting might be thing. I think we (or maybe it’s just me) do not yet fully realize the full potential of that ability.

Isn’t this the same nonsense as ventari/dragonhunter fragments. Having to run around touching mirages seems frustrating, especially when our dodge doesn’t move us.

I just listened to BogOtter’s interview with the devs on elite specs and heard you can dodge/blur while stunned as well. It’s almost like F4 “lite”.

Edit: from the sounds of it that wasn’t regarding the GM trait, it sounded like a standard feature of dodge.

BogOtter’s interview also had them saying the entire design process of Mirage was, ‘yeah Mirages are in deserts right?’, which explains why it doesn’t appear to be that useful for any mode.

Levetty.1279:

BogOtter’s interview also had them saying the entire design process of Mirage was, ‘yeah Mirages are in deserts right?’, which explains why it doesn’t appear to be that useful for any mode.

lol yeah fair point it did sound like that xD