Mirage is extremely good

Mirage is extremely good

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Posted by: Fay.2357

Fay.2357

Fixing forum bugs after 5 years is hard, mmmk?

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Posted by: musu.9205

musu.9205

Also id like to mention that my current build is only the strongest build i have yet to see myself. Im not saying it is the strongest build possible or it is what everyone will play in the future. While my build might be strong, we have only had a few days to look at these things and its most likely that its possible to even make a much better mirage build.

My main point is that in the games current state it will be a better option than chronomancer.

It’s not like gw2 is a complex game with complex mechanical interactions. There’s not that many ways to build a character, especially with the obvious restrictions of being a condie build that bursts without relying on clones. You can burst with shatters, you can burst with weapon skills, you can burst with ambush skills. That’s literally it. All of those methods have downsides, and chrono is far better at shatter bursting.

I think you’re just afraid to post the build because then people would see how not impressive the burst actually is. There’s no shame in being wrong you know, it’s ok.

Thats why im surprised people have so much trouble finding mirage any good. Whats the difference between streaming the build and posting the build?

Simple. By withholding the build here and now, for whatever stupid reason you can muster, you’re preventing us from talking intelligently with you about why you think the way you do. You’re essentially the same as a person who goes “this thing is 100% true. I have evidence, but, y’know, I won’t show it to you. Just take my word, it’s very compelling.” So don’t blame us for not trusting you, but we don’t trust you. Give us the build or stop talking about it. Those are your rational options.

Its alright not to trust me but its stupid not to try to see the potential in something and give it more than one go before you say its bad. Ill be streaming the build after pof release.

when PoF releases , the mirage would surely be different .
you could give us your build . or even just the burst combo you used .rest of us will figure it out in no time anyway .

there wont be a secret build that only you can performance well .

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Posted by: musu.9205

musu.9205

or you know some would view this as a bait for your stream .

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Posted by: Me Games Ma.8426

Me Games Ma.8426

Right, so the problem I’m seeing here is the really limited illusion generation vs a competent opponent and the awkward and broken mechanics of the axe skills. Axe 2 is pretty clunky and requires very close range, but axe doesn’t have a good gap closer because axe 3 is just non-functional any time you’re fighting on terrain that isn’t flat. If the stars line up and you’re fighting a low mobility target on a relatively flat area, it’ll work well. Otherwise…not so much.

It could be that I was just fighting in optimal conditions all the time. I can’t really objectively analyze my gameplay on the fly but my experience was that I did not have issues with generation.
Maybe my opponents were just bad for a couple of hours and that’s where my perception is flawed but I didn’t have a lot of problems against daredevils, dragonhunters, deadeyes, weavers, other mesmers, or reapers. The only professions that really made me struggle were Spellbreakers and Scurges.

I would go further from what it felt like my main damage sources besides torch4+5 were axe2+3.

I’m not saying that I am right since I did not record any of my gameplay there’s no proof for that it’s just what I felt was happening.

Mindblossom – Sylvari – Mesmer – Jumpingpuzzler
Equinox [EqnX]
Riverside[DE]

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Posted by: musu.9205

musu.9205

Right, so the problem I’m seeing here is the really limited illusion generation vs a competent opponent and the awkward and broken mechanics of the axe skills. Axe 2 is pretty clunky and requires very close range, but axe doesn’t have a good gap closer because axe 3 is just non-functional any time you’re fighting on terrain that isn’t flat. If the stars line up and you’re fighting a low mobility target on a relatively flat area, it’ll work well. Otherwise…not so much.

It could be that I was just fighting in optimal conditions all the time. I can’t really objectively analyze my gameplay on the fly but my experience was that I did not have issues with generation.
Maybe my opponents were just bad for a couple of hours and that’s where my perception is flawed but I didn’t have a lot of problems against daredevils, dragonhunters, deadeyes, weavers, other mesmers, or reapers. The only professions that really made me struggle were Spellbreakers and Scurges.

I would go further from what it felt like my main damage sources besides torch4+5 were axe2+3.

I’m not saying that I am right since I did not record any of my gameplay there’s no proof for that it’s just what I felt was happening.

given the details you talked about earlier in this post , you wont have that many conditions while against class like DD and reaper and chrono mes .
playstyle seems to be torch 4 stealth then axe 3 .and we all know how to dodge that .
its far easier than dodging thief stealth or s/d sword 2 when it was meta .
we learned all those from thief already , now mirage does it even slower with less burst damage .

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Posted by: Curunen.8729

Curunen.8729

By this i do not want to imply that the design of the spec is good. They kittened up with the design of some traits and skills, some of them blow. Thats a fair argument and something that probably should be addressed when some of the traits are just flat out unplayable.

What i want to put forward is that mirage is far from underpowered and something id argue to be at least one of the best specializations for now. Mirage definitely doesnt need an all around buff but rather a new look at some of the skills and traits that are underpowered and flawed.

Im not going to go into how some traits like stunbreak on dodge should not exist. They will always come up anyways but to give some perspective, its like daredevil dodge on steroids.

In terms of pvp I agree with you that the burst output of Mirage is very high and higher than chrono even if pianoing F5 into double shatter spam. I am able to output very high levels (ie 25 stacks) of confusion supplemented by significant direct damage (using viper), when the situation is in my favour.

The mechanics however are inconsistent and nowhere near as reliable as Chrono – which is the problem. With Chrono it always works. With Mirage, when it works it’s very powerful, when it doesn’t it’s kitten poor.

I can see and appreciate your perspective as one of the top pvp mesmers, however Mirage needs serious fixes and buffs to consistency (both traits, skills and core mechanics like the mirage mirrors and ambush) in order to be reliable most if not all of the time.

Yes I also agree that the more I am playing the more I my muscle memory is becoming familiar with mechanics and I am able to approach some of the efficiency and reliability of Chrono. In any case there is still a lot of work to be done on Mirage for it to be competitive (for the mechanics to be consistent/reliable/versatile to adapt to the changing situation).

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Posted by: zoomborg.9462

zoomborg.9462

By this i do not want to imply that the design of the spec is good. They kittened up with the design of some traits and skills, some of them blow. Thats a fair argument and something that probably should be addressed when some of the traits are just flat out unplayable.

What i want to put forward is that mirage is far from underpowered and something id argue to be at least one of the best specializations for now. Mirage definitely doesnt need an all around buff but rather a new look at some of the skills and traits that are underpowered and flawed.

Im not going to go into how some traits like stunbreak on dodge should not exist. They will always come up anyways but to give some perspective, its like daredevil dodge on steroids.

The problem for me is that mirage feels like an unfinished spec. With a new spec u should be playing a different way, thats what elites specs are about.We still have to play around shatters cause ambush is bad with most weapons and phantasms don’t do ambush, while mirror shard is simply too bad. Basically u have clones,phantasms, shatters and ambush, 4 mechanics that contradict each other.If i want to make any use of ambush i need to play scepter or sword. Staff ambush is clunky, gs ambush is a joke. Once again if i wanna play power i rely on mind wrack and mind wrack alone.

All we have is another shatter mesm with a few tweaks. Thats what mirage is atm. A tweak to base mesmer. Doesn’t feel like a new spec.

(edited by zoomborg.9462)

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Posted by: TheOneWhoSighs.7513

TheOneWhoSighs.7513

Since you don’t explain why I am forced to presume you are wrong and everybody else is right.

Mirage enables things you normally couldnt do, like stack 20 confusion on enemies with cover conditions without trouble whilst still having good options for survivability.

Except Condi Chrono can do that too. With Moa, CS split condi burst it’s possible.

I said without trouble. And with chrono youre not going to be able to survive nearly as well.

In what scenario are you talking about?

PvE?

sPvP?

WvW roaming?

WvW zergs?

The only scenario I would agree that the weaver would survive easier is that last one, a blob in WvW. All the dodging, stun breaks and movement abilities of the Weaver make it a lot easier to survive in a zerg if you’re caught out.

But I wouldn’t run a weaver in a zerg. It brings nothing to a zerg. It’s incredibly selfish, and simultaneously missing the kill & finishing potential of a daredevil.

Im talking of mirage and specifically spvp since i do not play in other areas of the game.

Then you’re probably just bad at chrono, to be completely honest.

Feel free to check my gameplay on twitch. Ive played in multiple top teams in the past, as anyone relevant in the scene would know. twitch.tv/frostball99

Literally means nothing to me. Especially in this game, where the competition has mostly quit.

“I was in a top team in a dead competitive scene”

In the past, as in when it was not indecent to have hope for the games pvp scene. Anyhow since you didnt recognise me to begin with its probably pointless to explain.

Oh. In the past, as in not recent and not relevant anymore, but you feel the need to bring it up anyway as some sort of “credentials”.

This is kind of like a homeless man bragging about how he was a CEO of a fortune 500 company once.

Look man, you’re probably better than me at the game.

I just don’t see much in the current mirage spec other than the loads of evasion.

Which to me, is complete overkill for sPvP. And really brings up the question of “Why not just roll a daredevil”.

“Unused Development Initiative. We care so much
about your feedback, that we don’t even read it.” ~ Crystal Suzuki

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Posted by: Tongku.5326

Tongku.5326

By this i do not want to imply that the design of the spec is good. They kittened up with the design of some traits and skills, some of them blow. Thats a fair argument and something that probably should be addressed when some of the traits are just flat out unplayable.

What i want to put forward is that mirage is far from underpowered and something id argue to be at least one of the best specializations for now. Mirage definitely doesnt need an all around buff but rather a new look at some of the skills and traits that are underpowered and flawed.

Im not going to go into how some traits like stunbreak on dodge should not exist. They will always come up anyways but to give some perspective, its like daredevil dodge on steroids.

With exception of stunbreak trait I found it to be quite underwhelming and bad in design and play.

its ok in 1 v 1 scenarios and small useless dinky stuff but thats about it. try anything more serious and falls flat on its face, mainly for 2 reasons:

1. Axe is pretty horrible. Too limited by range and clunky mechanics. I can see its uses on constrained areas, like maybe spvp cap points, or slow or immobile targets that don’t move around or dodge / evade so that they stay within the range of the axe. But like I said, useless in anything more serious, only good for dinky crap.

2. Mirrors are unusable as they require you to get to them and most of the times they pop in hotzones that you have to go around and avoid not get into them to get the mirror because that causes you to automatically die in about 0.05 seconds or waste your good defensive CDs to get to a mirror so that you don’t down doing it. So the mirrors are entirely useless.

Heavy Deedz – COSA – SF

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Posted by: nothelseth.4621

nothelseth.4621

To make it clear, frostballs current idea of mirage is the following

Krait runes for jaunt
ineptitude+blind on shatter
signet of midnight
axe

Jaunt on target, spam every single shatter, get the elite proc and get a massive condi spike. Playing this as a silly thief +1er

Cool in theory. In practice 1 well of eternity, 1 astral form, 1 leadership rune proc and all of your cds and burst is gone. Less effective than a thief by x100. Garbage in a teamfight. Inferior 1v1 to chrono, can’t hold a fight for its life, garbage 2v2, etc

Frostball has literally for years been the kid who always tries to refuse what everyone else does and do ‘’his own thing’’ and insist that it’s better. This is the person who plays the inspiration build with carrion and played bunker mesmer with the damage well.

Fantastic pvper, one of the best mesmers in the game by far but also someone who has historically ALWAYS been a contrarian who wants to be cool and stand out by never agreeing with what’s actually true.

Also, your build is bad lmao

(edited by nothelseth.4621)

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Posted by: Noctix.9624

Noctix.9624

Tried it out not impressed at all, and servery disappointed. The mirror mechanic needs to be changed or something it feels super gimmicky with having to run all over to pick them up.

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Posted by: Exciton.8942

Exciton.8942

Let me guess.

You probably do an ambush burst followed by a shatter combo? So that is good damage right? But let’s be honest, how realistic is that with all the slow as hell ambush skill animation and squishy clones for follow-up shattering.

Unless you elaborate details, I will not believe you. Your post is vague and meaningless.

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Posted by: Ansau.7326

Ansau.7326

In an ideal situation, Mirage has insane condi burst, but in a realistic scenario that burst is much harder to achieve.
- Clones insta-die to cleave or AoE.
- You will often have phantasms.
- You won’t have all dodges for offense.
- There’s a lot of access to Resistance.

Mirage seems crazy for the numbers people get in golems (like Holosmith), but when you look a bit further into the specialization, it is clear there are a lot of issues, and some of them cannot be solved by tweaking some numbers here and there, they need deep mechanical changes.

Btw, don’t underestimate Chrono damage. They did some changes that became shadowed by the new elite specializations. This is what I can achieve with normal kiting, torch and F1 against a mob that kills clones…

Again, you people are looking at the wrong build type. Crazy condition stacks are easily achievable in normal games, with fast succession.

No, I’m looking at what Mirage provides that Chrono cannot get. So far, Axe, Deceptions, Ambush and the new dodge mechanic are nothing compared to Shield, CS, Alacrity, Chronophantasma and other things.
Anything else can also be achieved by a Chrono or a core condi mesmer. And, by thus, your so excitement for Mirage is just that, a mirage.

And by what Helseth said, I was right. You “silly” build is nothing more than the new core condi burst introduced with the latest balance patch. It might have more spike and burst with Mirage thanks to the insane combat mobility, but chrono also has access to it, and is miles better at all other aspects of the game (support, holding a point, team fights…).

Ansau – Sylvari Mesmer – Exiled Warriors [wE] – Gandara

i7 5775c @ 4.1GHz – 12GB RAM @ 2400MHz – RX 480 @ 1390/2140MHz

(edited by Ansau.7326)

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Posted by: Fay.2357

Fay.2357

To make it clear, frostballs current idea of mirage is the following

Krait runes for jaunt
ineptitude+blind on shatter
signet of midnight
axe

Jaunt on target, spam every single shatter, get the elite proc and get a massive condi spike. Playing this as a silly thief +1er

Cool in theory. In practice 1 well of eternity, 1 astral form, 1 leadership rune proc and all of your cds and burst is gone. Less effective than a thief by x100. Garbage in a teamfight. Inferior 1v1 to chrono, can’t hold a fight for its life, garbage 2v2, etc

Frostball has literally for years been the kid who always tries to refuse what everyone else does and do ‘’his own thing’’ and insist that it’s better. This is the person who plays the inspiration build with carrion and played bunker mesmer with the damage well.

Fantastic pvper, one of the best mesmers in the game by far but also someone who has historically ALWAYS been a contrarian who wants to be cool and stand out by never agreeing with what’s actually true.

Also, your build is bad lmao

Yep. Exactly what I said it was in my earlier post and has exactly all the problems I detailed.

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Posted by: Dondagora.9645

Dondagora.9645

I’m worried that if we keep this thread bumped, the devs will take the title at face value.

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Posted by: Elessaria.9142

Elessaria.9142

Its alright not to trust me but its stupid not to try to see the potential in something and give it more than one go before you say its bad. Ill be streaming the build after pof release.

This was meant to be a beta weekend. By not telling anyone the specifics of your build and why you think its a good spec people are missing, you are both making your opinion a strawman and defeating the purpose of the beta by denying anet the data from the playerbase they are looking for. Its a pretty assinine road to take to be honest…

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Posted by: Tapps.1479

Tapps.1479

This was meant to be a beta weekend. By not telling anyone the specifics of your build and why you think its a good spec people are missing, you are both making your opinion a strawman and defeating the purpose of the beta by denying anet the data from the playerbase they are looking for. Its a pretty assinine road to take to be honest…

This isn’t a beta, this is a demo. If they were beta testing now PoF wouldn’t be releasing in a month.

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Posted by: Blades Of Fatalis.1279

Blades Of Fatalis.1279

Since you don’t explain why I am forced to presume you are wrong and everybody else is right.

Mirage enables things you normally couldnt do, like stack 20 confusion on enemies with cover conditions without trouble whilst still having good options for survivability.

uhhh what? 20 stacks of confusion is doable on base mesmer easily, chrono i can get 30-50 stacks without too much effort.
video proof of 49 stacks of confusion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmfp92Y_UtU
now, im not saying mirage isnt good. ive personally had good success with it. it fits my playstyle rather well, and while a lot of the traits need work i find them to fit my setup nicely. is it perfect? no. does it compare condi wise with chrono? also no.

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Posted by: glenndevis.8327

glenndevis.8327

This was meant to be a beta weekend. By not telling anyone the specifics of your build and why you think its a good spec people are missing, you are both making your opinion a strawman and defeating the purpose of the beta by denying anet the data from the playerbase they are looking for. Its a pretty assinine road to take to be honest…

This isn’t a beta, this is a demo. If they were beta testing now PoF wouldn’t be releasing in a month.

Tbh it might be a demo but i’m sure Anet will take some of our feedback and buff & fix some things by the time the expansion launches.

But I highly doubt they’re gnna do any major changes to elite specs though.
I really wish they would rework the Mirage Mirrors (not just buff them, a complete rework or even better, a diffirent mechanic that gives us more Mirage Cloak.)

It would be stupid of Anet to not make any changes at all by the time PoF releases.
That being said I do wish they had done a beta earlier on though. They might have been able to do more with that feedback because Mirage really isn’t “extremely good”.

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Posted by: Frostball.9108

Frostball.9108

To make it clear, frostballs current idea of mirage is the following

Krait runes for jaunt
ineptitude+blind on shatter
signet of midnight
axe

Jaunt on target, spam every single shatter, get the elite proc and get a massive condi spike. Playing this as a silly thief +1er

Cool in theory. In practice 1 well of eternity, 1 astral form, 1 leadership rune proc and all of your cds and burst is gone. Less effective than a thief by x100. Garbage in a teamfight. Inferior 1v1 to chrono, can’t hold a fight for its life, garbage 2v2, etc

Frostball has literally for years been the kid who always tries to refuse what everyone else does and do ‘’his own thing’’ and insist that it’s better. This is the person who plays the inspiration build with carrion and played bunker mesmer with the damage well.

Fantastic pvper, one of the best mesmers in the game by far but also someone who has historically ALWAYS been a contrarian who wants to be cool and stand out by never agreeing with what’s actually true.

Also, your build is bad lmao

I see you got sindys advice, although his guess on my build was wrong in some parts so such is yours. If you cant burst again within short periods of time with my build youre doing something mechanically wrong. All of your cds most definitely arent gone with one burst and the burst isnt gone with a simple thing like a leadership proc. You need heavy condi cleanse.

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Posted by: Frostball.9108

Frostball.9108

Since you don’t explain why I am forced to presume you are wrong and everybody else is right.

Mirage enables things you normally couldnt do, like stack 20 confusion on enemies with cover conditions without trouble whilst still having good options for survivability.

uhhh what? 20 stacks of confusion is doable on base mesmer easily, chrono i can get 30-50 stacks without too much effort.
video proof of 49 stacks of confusion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmfp92Y_UtU
now, im not saying mirage isnt good. ive personally had good success with it. it fits my playstyle rather well, and while a lot of the traits need work i find them to fit my setup nicely. is it perfect? no. does it compare condi wise with chrono? also no.

I dont play wvw

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Posted by: Zoltar MacRoth.7146

Zoltar MacRoth.7146

To make it clear, frostballs current idea of mirage is the following

Krait runes for jaunt
ineptitude+blind on shatter
signet of midnight
axe

Jaunt on target, spam every single shatter, get the elite proc and get a massive condi spike. Playing this as a silly thief +1er

Cool in theory. In practice 1 well of eternity, 1 astral form, 1 leadership rune proc and all of your cds and burst is gone. Less effective than a thief by x100. Garbage in a teamfight. Inferior 1v1 to chrono, can’t hold a fight for its life, garbage 2v2, etc

Frostball has literally for years been the kid who always tries to refuse what everyone else does and do ‘’his own thing’’ and insist that it’s better. This is the person who plays the inspiration build with carrion and played bunker mesmer with the damage well.

Fantastic pvper, one of the best mesmers in the game by far but also someone who has historically ALWAYS been a contrarian who wants to be cool and stand out by never agreeing with what’s actually true.

Also, your build is bad lmao

I see you got sindys advice, although his guess on my build was wrong in some parts so such is yours. If you cant burst again within short periods of time with my build youre doing something mechanically wrong. All of your cds most definitely arent gone with one burst and the burst isnt gone with a simple thing like a leadership proc. You need heavy condi cleanse.

So… what… is… your… build?

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Posted by: Ryouzanpaku.1273

Ryouzanpaku.1273

After reading this thread I am quite sure OP is just trolling
This “my uber build works great and you are all wrong” attitude combined with clickbait title…
For a short time I had hope

Player plays the game. MetaKitten plays the DPS meter on the golem.

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Posted by: Jackums.3496

Jackums.3496

To make it clear, frostballs current idea of mirage is the following

Krait runes for jaunt
ineptitude+blind on shatter
signet of midnight
axe

Jaunt on target, spam every single shatter, get the elite proc and get a massive condi spike. Playing this as a silly thief +1er

Cool in theory. In practice 1 well of eternity, 1 astral form, 1 leadership rune proc and all of your cds and burst is gone. Less effective than a thief by x100. Garbage in a teamfight. Inferior 1v1 to chrono, can’t hold a fight for its life, garbage 2v2, etc

Frostball has literally for years been the kid who always tries to refuse what everyone else does and do ‘’his own thing’’ and insist that it’s better. This is the person who plays the inspiration build with carrion and played bunker mesmer with the damage well.

Fantastic pvper, one of the best mesmers in the game by far but also someone who has historically ALWAYS been a contrarian who wants to be cool and stand out by never agreeing with what’s actually true.

Also, your build is bad lmao

Amen.

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Posted by: Curunen.8729

Curunen.8729

To make it clear, frostballs current idea of mirage is the following

Krait runes for jaunt
ineptitude+blind on shatter
signet of midnight
axe

Jaunt on target, spam every single shatter, get the elite proc and get a massive condi spike. Playing this as a silly thief +1er

Cool in theory. In practice 1 well of eternity, 1 astral form, 1 leadership rune proc and all of your cds and burst is gone. Less effective than a thief by x100. Garbage in a teamfight. Inferior 1v1 to chrono, can’t hold a fight for its life, garbage 2v2, etc

Frostball has literally for years been the kid who always tries to refuse what everyone else does and do ‘’his own thing’’ and insist that it’s better. This is the person who plays the inspiration build with carrion and played bunker mesmer with the damage well.

Fantastic pvper, one of the best mesmers in the game by far but also someone who has historically ALWAYS been a contrarian who wants to be cool and stand out by never agreeing with what’s actually true.

Also, your build is bad lmao

I see you got sindys advice, although his guess on my build was wrong in some parts so such is yours. If you cant burst again within short periods of time with my build youre doing something mechanically wrong. All of your cds most definitely arent gone with one burst and the burst isnt gone with a simple thing like a leadership proc. You need heavy condi cleanse.

So… what… is… your… build?

At this point I agree. It’s not helpful to the devs or the playerbase to withhold your build.

It’s a demo and things will be changed – so trying to get the upper hand on the competition doesn’t make sense before release, especially if making claims that go against majority of other feedback. But if it is the case that you don’t want to tell in order to surprise the competition, don’t even make a thread on here – keep it all to yourself. Otherwise this comes across as being patronising and arrogant/selfish, serving no purpose. In any case as said in my previous post I in partial agreement with your conclusion of damage output, so not saying this out of spite, rather a desire for all the community to be on the same page so devs can have a clear picture of what to do with Mirage ready for release.

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Posted by: apharma.3741

apharma.3741

Guys he’s keeping it a secret so it gives him the edge to win the world championship!

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Posted by: Adolfas.2180

Adolfas.2180

hey guys i have a secret holosmith build its very good but i wont tell you but i want your attention so if you dont mind gimme some attention.

ill show build on stream btw in 1 month, too lazy to type it here XDDD roflolmao

Zan

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Posted by: Levetty.1279

Levetty.1279

If nothing else this thread shows why people have low opinions of the PvP crowd.

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Posted by: Jace al Thor.6745

Jace al Thor.6745

If nothing else this thread shows why people have low opinions of the PvP crowd.

Eh to say PvP crowd is too general. Low opinions of people who think the know everything and believe they are better than everyone else because they have more time to play the game than others? Yes

Sachyi Asuna. A [KING]’s Mesmer Unified Kingdom

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Posted by: Allarius.5670

Allarius.5670

Oh, this looks fun: whack-a-mole guess the build. Actually, this thread is kind of productive in a round about way: there has been some interesting theory crafting and associated drawbacks brought up and discussed that I haven’t exactly seen elsewhere.

Here is my guess:


“Pulmonary Impact Mirage”
(Daredevil through the eyes of Mesmer)

Dueling: Duelist’s Discipline (with pistol, otherwise Desperate Decoy), Blinding Dissipation, Ineptitude
Chaos: Descent into Madness, Chaotic Dampening, Chaotic Interruption
Mirage: Riddle of Sand, Mirrored Axes, Elusive Mind or maybe Infinite Horizon

Axe with Pistol (?) and Staff
Heal (?), Mantra of Distraction, Portal (?), Blink (?), Jaunt

Sigils: Energy and Cleansing on both
Runes: Lyssa, Nightmare, or Adventure

Amulet: Condi duration is good here (condition spread and not running Illusions for improved Confusion duration) and Precision (bleed procs for Sharper Images). Lower power scaling on axe, so maybe Wanderer or Deadeye, Viper seems too fragile to actually run anywhere (learn to play on my part?).

From what I can tell, it would have problems if it gets condition bombed and it has no real sustain, would need to remain elusive and avoid prolonged focus. It does have burst, control, mobility and evasion to help with survival and roaming. Would also struggle with high, multi-stack stability uptime without boonrip.

Chaos storm access approx every 15 sec, possible interrupt procs with cover conditions and pairs well with Lingering Thoughts whirl finisher. Interrupts enable one another (Mantra refreshes Diversion, interrupts refresh Pistol). Multiple ways to pressure and condition bomb with low relative cooldown and high repetition. Reasonable torment access, high bleed and high confusion, lots of cover potential.

No moles were harmed in this guess work.

Mirage is extremely good

in Mesmer

Posted by: musu.9205

musu.9205

Oh, this looks fun: whack-a-mole guess the build. Actually, this thread is kind of productive in a round about way: there has been some interesting theory crafting and associated drawbacks brought up and discussed that I haven’t exactly seen elsewhere.

Here is my guess:


“Pulmonary Impact Mirage”
(Daredevil through the eyes of Mesmer)

Dueling: Duelist’s Discipline (with pistol, otherwise Desperate Decoy), Blinding Dissipation, Ineptitude
Chaos: Descent into Madness, Chaotic Dampening, Chaotic Interruption
Mirage: Riddle of Sand, Mirrored Axes, Elusive Mind or maybe Infinite Horizon

Axe with Pistol (?) and Staff
Heal (?), Mantra of Distraction, Portal (?), Blink (?), Jaunt

Sigils: Energy and Cleansing on both
Runes: Lyssa, Nightmare, or Adventure

Amulet: Condi duration is good here (condition spread and not running Illusions for improved Confusion duration) and Precision (bleed procs for Sharper Images). Lower power scaling on axe, so maybe Wanderer or Deadeye, Viper seems too fragile to actually run anywhere (learn to play on my part?).

From what I can tell, it would have problems if it gets condition bombed and it has no real sustain, would need to remain elusive and avoid prolonged focus. It does have burst, control, mobility and evasion to help with survival and roaming. Would also struggle with high, multi-stack stability uptime without boonrip.

Chaos storm access approx every 15 sec, possible interrupt procs with cover conditions and pairs well with Lingering Thoughts whirl finisher. Interrupts enable one another (Mantra refreshes Diversion, interrupts refresh Pistol). Multiple ways to pressure and condition bomb with low relative cooldown and high repetition. Reasonable torment access, high bleed and high confusion, lots of cover potential.

No moles were harmed in this guess work.

mistrust was far better than this with daze mantra . and guess why it was just a niche build .

also , sword is better for your build but sword ambush is still way too slow for what it does and what it costs.

and still :

clone generation is not enough for this to work .

on top of those problems , where is your defense? you don’t even have enough condi removal .no dmg on shatter.

now lets look what u can get from other trait line :
illusion : much more constantly dmg
domination :CS , PB for build with some power stats .not much for condi build tho
inspiration ?condi removal , regen , idefender
chrono : no need to explain for this one

mirage is worse than almost every trait line for one meh blink that takes a elite slot .
or a GM trait that lets you burn your dodge for pitty dmg unless you slowly summon 3 clones during a fight .

i meant the whole build work around Ineptitude. what you even need mirage for ?

Mirage is extremely good

in Mesmer

Posted by: Allarius.5670

Allarius.5670

mistrust was far better than this with daze mantra . and guess why it was just a niche build .

also , sword is better for your build but sword ambush is still way too slow for what it does and what it costs.

and still :

clone generation is not enough for this to work .

on top of those problems , where is your defense? you don’t even have enough condi removal .no dmg on shatter.

now lets look what u can get from other trait line :
illusion : much more constantly dmg
domination :CS , PB for build with some power stats .not much for condi build tho
inspiration ?condi removal , regen , idefender
chrono : no need to explain for this one

mirage is worse than almost every trait line for one meh blink that takes a elite slot .
or a GM trait that lets you burn your dodge for pitty dmg unless you slowly summon 3 clones during a fight .

i meant the whole build work around Ineptitude. what you even need mirage for ?

Vulnerability to high condition application and condition bombing would be huge! Playstyle would require something similar to power shatter mesmer and thief, avoidance and get-in get-out. This wouldn’t be a dueling, sustain, or hold the point kind of build.

Defense (in addition to major kiting requirements) would probably have to come from its high blind access, repositioning, cc (daze, stun), and evasion (Mirage Cloak, allowing you to continue attacking).

Mirage would be taken to allow for additional condition access, low cooldown stunbreak with minor condition cleanse, access to axe, and cover casting with Mirage Cloak.

Riddle of Sand and Ineptitude would make for easy confusion application on par with Illusions traits without needing any illusions. Axe would grant low cooldown condition application. Torment would come from axe, and you would gain bleed spike potential from Dueling.

Over the weekend I played something different than this, so I cannot verify the idea. This is articulation of what I think the op may be considering and why. I’m just guessing here.

Mirage is extremely good

in Mesmer

Posted by: Levetty.1279

Levetty.1279

My guess is he has gone Firebrand with spirit weapons and he got confused and thinks he is playing a Mesmer.

Mirage is extremely good

in Mesmer

Posted by: musu.9205

musu.9205

mistrust was far better than this with daze mantra . and guess why it was just a niche build .

also , sword is better for your build but sword ambush is still way too slow for what it does and what it costs.

and still :

clone generation is not enough for this to work .

on top of those problems , where is your defense? you don’t even have enough condi removal .no dmg on shatter.

now lets look what u can get from other trait line :
illusion : much more constantly dmg
domination :CS , PB for build with some power stats .not much for condi build tho
inspiration ?condi removal , regen , idefender
chrono : no need to explain for this one

mirage is worse than almost every trait line for one meh blink that takes a elite slot .
or a GM trait that lets you burn your dodge for pitty dmg unless you slowly summon 3 clones during a fight .

i meant the whole build work around Ineptitude. what you even need mirage for ?

Vulnerability to high condition application and condition bombing would be huge! Playstyle would require something similar to power shatter mesmer and thief, avoidance and get-in get-out. This wouldn’t be a dueling, sustain, or hold the point kind of build.

Defense (in addition to major kiting requirements) would probably have to come from its high blind access, repositioning, cc (daze, stun), and evasion (Mirage Cloak, allowing you to continue attacking).

Mirage would be taken to allow for additional condition access, low cooldown stunbreak with minor condition cleanse, access to axe, and cover casting with Mirage Cloak.

Riddle of Sand and Ineptitude would make for easy confusion application on par with Illusions traits without needing any illusions. Axe would grant low cooldown condition application. Torment would come from axe, and you would gain bleed spike potential from Dueling.

Over the weekend I played something different than this, so I cannot verify the idea. This is articulation of what I think the op may be considering and why. I’m just guessing here.

except one thing , where is your burst dmg from ? like what u are going to use for burst ?

and where is your low cd stunbreak ?even you take Elusive Mind , it will just waste your dmg which is not that good to begin with .

if you take Infinite Horizon , only stunbreak you have is blink which u dont need mirage .

access to axe but for what ? its dmg is not that good for a melee weapon, only skill 3 is worth somethinng but its way too slow .
scepter or sword is far better

and mirage cloak wont cover u for 2.25s cast time . lol

Mirage is extremely good

in Mesmer

Posted by: Frostball.9108

Frostball.9108

Guys he’s keeping it a secret so it gives him the edge to win the world championship!

O kitten u got me.

Mirage is extremely good

in Mesmer

Posted by: zealex.9410

zealex.9410

Am i the only one who thinks that mirage can be a better condi dd? Also the power mirage build is fun af Boooooiiiii.

Mirage is extremely good

in Mesmer

Posted by: Allarius.5670

Allarius.5670

@musu

Maybe op is good enough to make it work with Viper to add some power on Mind Wrack, but generally I guess the burst would have to come from conditions. Decent torment potential, bleed bursts, and heavy confusion. If they have found some decent combos to stack high confusion with high frequency then you can get some decent damage. At 20 stacks of confusion you can do 5k spike with an interrupt on top of normal condition dps and confusion procs, and you’d want to interrupt post confusion application to get Chaotic Interruption and cover the confusion.

Yeah, you would want Elusive Mind. It dramatically increases the versatility of Mirage Cloak. You wouldn’t use Mirage Cloak just for damage/ambush, just for defense/cover casting, or just for stunbreaks, you would use it for all of the above simultaneously as often as possible.

Mirage Cloak helps enable axe to function more fluidly in melee. Rotation would have to be a blend of near melee axe attacks with shatter for blind, mirage cloak for any of the above, Axes of Symmetry for additional evade, detarget, reposition, and alpha strike, etc.

When recovering endurance and cooldowns you would need to kite out and line of sight, this is when you would channel any mantras.

@zealex
Yeah, that was my impression too. Potential is there, maybe I just need to get better, some tweaks added to the spec, or adjustments to what I was running.

(edited by Allarius.5670)

Mirage is extremely good

in Mesmer

Posted by: GeorgeisLucas.5340

GeorgeisLucas.5340

I dont play wvw

This human cannot be trusted! </traitor>.

Attachments:

Culego :: [So] Shellfish

Mirage is extremely good

in Mesmer

Posted by: Jace al Thor.6745

Jace al Thor.6745

I dont play wvw

This human cannot be trusted! </traitor>.

But hang on! That’s not him it’s just a Mirage it can’t be Frostball because he’s right and we’re all just peasants that know no better.

Sachyi Asuna. A [KING]’s Mesmer Unified Kingdom

Mirage is extremely good

in Mesmer

Posted by: Dondagora.9645

Dondagora.9645

Everybody! OP is not a rational person! Let the thread die until he posts his build! There is no point otherwise.

Mirage is extremely good

in Mesmer

Posted by: Ithilwen.1529

Ithilwen.1529

By this i do not want to imply that the design of the spec is good. They kittened up with the design of some traits and skills, some of them blow. Thats a fair argument and something that probably should be addressed when some of the traits are just flat out unplayable.

What i want to put forward is that mirage is far from underpowered and something id argue to be at least one of the best specializations for now. Mirage definitely doesnt need an all around buff but rather a new look at some of the skills and traits that are underpowered and flawed.

Im not going to go into how some traits like stunbreak on dodge should not exist. They will always come up anyways but to give some perspective, its like daredevil dodge on steroids.

I honestly wonder if this is a provocation post. Are you serious?

Mesmerising Girl

Mirage is extremely good

in Mesmer

Posted by: melcor.1094

melcor.1094

The positions in this thread are very different/ extreme. But verity often lies in the middle. Aside from that i don`t see any good reason to insult or trashtalk each other over this, however guild wars was always good for some drama…

I think the guide jazz man pulled out is a very good review about the mirage in the current state, impartial showing some pros and conts without getting kitten and without any ego issues. Always felt well-adviced by his mesmer videos even though he is focusing on powerbuilds and not meta.

Just my two cents.

Mirage is extremely good

in Mesmer

Posted by: FaboBabo.3581

FaboBabo.3581

my wvw build for u to discuss (:
http://de.gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQRArf7alsnhi0YZawCNwtGKvGUZF6dwRDQOPCA-T1CBQBO7AKIl9H+iyAaqEEAPBgndgCcoKBgRp3GOJAeSdnApfgUALKsC-w

Mirrage ; regen , traited axe, ambush for clones

less condi clear , so focused on jaunts and mantra. Insane Condi burst. Dont get me Wrong guys ; Chrono will never have the same Condi Burst as Mirrage has. Ambushes into Shatters are too much. Easy clone producing with scepter and axe 2. Sigil of energy for extra dodges therefore extra Ambushes. Rune + Sigil cause i wanted the precision for the sweet scepter ambushes.

3 clone scepter ambush is roughly 10 stacks torment , 10 stacks confusion and 10 stacks bleeding.

U can do it twice in a row …

Mirage is extremely good

in Mesmer

Posted by: TheOneWhoSighs.7513

TheOneWhoSighs.7513

The positions in this thread are very different/ extreme. But verity often lies in the middle. Aside from that i don`t see any good reason to insult or trashtalk each other over this, however guild wars was always good for some drama…

I think the guide jazz man pulled out is a very good review about the mirage in the current state, impartial showing some pros and conts without getting kitten and without any ego issues. Always felt well-adviced by his mesmer videos even though he is focusing on powerbuilds and not meta.

Just my two cents.

Hey man, if you can’t trash talk then PvP games might not be for you.

That’s like, half the fun.

And honestly, if you’ve been playing Mesmer since before HoT, you can handle anything anyone dishes out.

Because you’re a masochist.

That’s what playing PvP on pre-HoT mesmer was. Masochism.

“Unused Development Initiative. We care so much
about your feedback, that we don’t even read it.” ~ Crystal Suzuki