Guild Wars 2

Very simple suggestion, and that is to change Mistrust to be that Minor we were shown a while ago but never got our hands on: Confusion on critical hits by both the Mesmer and his illusions. This competes, somewhat, with DE in the Duelist line.

Thoughts?

Would this make GS our newest condi weapon?

Ross Biddle.2367:

Would this make GS our newest condi weapon?

As usual, of course, they’d just nerf the trait instead of changing GS1.
Pretty sure that’s why they nixed Confusing Combatants in the first place.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Would this make GS our newest condi weapon?

As usual, of course, they’d just nerf the trait instead of changing GS1.
Pretty sure that’s why they nixed Confusing Combatants in the first place.

No no, they’d nerf the trait, then add a .75 cast time to the GS AA, with a .25 aftercast after each hit XD

Ross Biddle.2367:

Would this make GS our newest condi weapon?

For this specifically, probably. But so what? Grandmaster traits are meant to be defining our playstyle, and this would be pretty kitten defining. Mistrust currently loses out to both CI and PB as a viable interrupt option, and competes with all-around better traits than it.

Confusion on crit was a minor during the major trait/spec overhaul but was dropped before live happened. I was probably one of several people that contributed to that change since while some ppl were saying it was crap, others like myself were calling it OP. It would basically double all illusion condi dmg.

I also don’t think the trait is inherently bad, but incomplete/doesn’t work in most game modes. AoE snowball interrupts don’t work in PvP when people are spread out too much. PvE doesn’t work with interrupts anymore. I could see it maybe working in some niche situation in PvE in the future. Only place I could see it working right now is WvW.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhUQJArensnB1ohlpBGpBEgiFcjycBitKoMAatXr+Vv1cF-ThBZABreCAY9BAUk6PwoEEAlfeqHgUAwssC-e

Is a build I’ve been messing with in my head but haven’t had time/money to actually try in WvW. 1.1k lifesteal, boon steal, slow, CI and 2 aoe confusion on interrupt. The sigils don’t seem to have an ICD. I think the addition of the elite chrono spec helps a lot with gravity well and ToT. I do eventually want to try this in a zerg setting.

Part of the reason I really do want this build to work (although I don’t wvw that much) is because illusions are crap in WvW zerg fights and a build like this utilizing traits like Mistrust could bring back the “glamour bomb style” of fighting although not actually glamours.

So I want to keep the essence of this trait (aoe something on interrupt with no ICD that allows for chain interrupts to snowball) but I can see it’s uselessness in 2 major formats of the game. Maybe if the aoe was much bigger for PvP. I don’t think all illusions causing confusion on crit would work either. If it was just the mesmer on crit, which would turn wells and sword/GS in condi weapons too, I could agree to something like this and I could see it being balanced easier. Or… wait for that next elite spec that somehow combos with it even better than chrono.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

Confusion on crit was a minor during the major trait/spec overhaul but was dropped before live happened. I was probably one of several people that contributed to that change since while some ppl were saying it was crap, others like myself were calling it OP. It would basically double all illusion condi dmg.

I also don’t think the trait is inherently bad, but incomplete/doesn’t work in most game modes. AoE snowball interrupts don’t work in PvP when people are spread out too much. PvE doesn’t work with interrupts anymore. I could see it maybe working in some niche situation in PvE in the future. Only place I could see it working right now is WvW.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhUQJArensnB1ohlpBGpBEgiFcjycBitKoMAatXr+Vv1cF-ThBZABreCAY9BAUk6PwoEEAlfeqHgUAwssC-e

Is a build I’ve been messing with in my head but haven’t had time/money to actually try in WvW. 1.1k lifesteal, boon steal, slow, CI and 2 aoe confusion on interrupt. The sigils don’t seem to have an ICD. I think the addition of the elite chrono spec helps a lot with gravity well and ToT. I do eventually want to try this in a zerg setting.

Part of the reason I really do want this build to work (although I don’t wvw that much) is because illusions are crap in WvW zerg fights and a build like this utilizing traits like Mistrust could bring back the “glamour bomb style” of fighting although not actually glamours.

So I want to keep the essence of this trait (aoe something on interrupt with no ICD that allows for chain interrupts to snowball) but I can see it’s uselessness in 2 major formats of the game. Maybe if the aoe was much bigger for PvP. I don’t think all illusions causing confusion on crit would work either. If it was just the mesmer on crit, which would turn wells and sword/GS in condi weapons too, I could agree to something like this and I could see it being balanced easier. Or… wait for that next elite spec that somehow combos with it even better than chrono.

Make it 2 stacks of burning instead of confusion.

Simply make it 3-4 stacks of confusion on interrupt, and it instantly makes it more worthwhile…

2 long lasting stacks is currently just too underwhelming considering how hard it is to stack it as a Mesmer. Irony at its best I suppose.

What about confusion on stun or daze? That would make it more useful for pve at least.

Kobeathris.3645:

What about confusion on stun or daze? That would make it more useful for pve at least.

Something that’s only applied on a stun or daze is awful. The only things that you really need help with taking down have a defiance bar, making them impossible to stun/daze almost the entire time.

It would help you deal with trash… but you really don’t need any extra help dealing with that.

Eponet.4829:

Kobeathris.3645:

What about confusion on stun or daze? That would make it more useful for pve at least.

Something that’s only applied on a stun or daze is awful. The only things that you really need help with taking down have a defiance bar, making them impossible to stun/daze almost the entire time.

It would help you deal with trash… but you really don’t need any extra help dealing with that.

On-stun or on-daze effects are all applied to breakbar mobs. You can test this by taking a dom mes into HoT and tossing some dazes at a breakbar mob. You’ll see vulnerability being applied even though the daze didn’t do anything but chunk the breakbar.

That said, the problem with the idea is that they’d just end up slapping a high icd on it, and it would be just as suck as it is now.

I think the idea of Mistrust is good, but the implementation is poor. As usual, it’s balanced on a completely insanely rarely possibility that you interrupt 4-5 people whom all happen to be standing real close to one another. This simply doesn’t happen in PvP, and not even often enough in WvW to make this a worthwhile GM to take.

What is it Anet is afraid of here? The worst case being 25 stacks of Confusion on 5 people from a single ability. No doubt, that is OPd. As unlikely as this is to ever happen, it is possible and clearly OPd.

So how can we make a better compromise here?

I would suggest making it apply 5 stacks of Confusion for 5s in the same 240 radius, but only on the initial target that was interrupted. Then give it a ~5s CD.

This would be a compromise that dramatically lowers the potential damage output of Mistrust in the extremely rare best case scenario, but also substantially boosts the effect that it achieves in the worst (and really average) case scenario. (1-2 targets interrupted within kitten period within a 240 radius.)

It would also maintain the basic premise of the abilities name, in that you instill mistrust from others because you were used as an anchor to their misery.

Windwalker.7421:

I think the idea of Mistrust is good, but the implementation is poor. As usual, it’s balanced on a completely insanely rarely possibility that you interrupt 4-5 people whom all happen to be standing real close to one another. This simply doesn’t happen in PvP, and not even often enough in WvW to make this a worthwhile GM to take.

What is it Anet is afraid of here? The worst case being 25 stacks of Confusion on 5 people from a single ability. No doubt, that is OPd. As unlikely as this is to ever happen, it is possible and clearly OPd.

So how can we make a better compromise here?

I would suggest making it apply 5 stacks of Confusion for 5s in the same 240 radius, but only on the initial target that was interrupted. Then give it a ~5s CD.

This would be a compromise that dramatically lowers the potential damage output of Mistrust in the extremely rare best case scenario, but also substantially boosts the effect that it achieves in the worst (and really average) case scenario. (1-2 targets interrupted within kitten period within a 240 radius.)

It would also maintain the basic premise of the abilities name, in that you instill mistrust from others because you were used as an anchor to their misery.

Worst case scenario of 25 stacks for a long duration means you literally interrupted 5 people with a single CC. That, I say, deserves such high reward rather than compromise.

Dondagora.9645:

Windwalker.7421:

I think the idea of Mistrust is good, but the implementation is poor. As usual, it’s balanced on a completely insanely rarely possibility that you interrupt 4-5 people whom all happen to be standing real close to one another. This simply doesn’t happen in PvP, and not even often enough in WvW to make this a worthwhile GM to take.

What is it Anet is afraid of here? The worst case being 25 stacks of Confusion on 5 people from a single ability. No doubt, that is OPd. As unlikely as this is to ever happen, it is possible and clearly OPd.

So how can we make a better compromise here?

I would suggest making it apply 5 stacks of Confusion for 5s in the same 240 radius, but only on the initial target that was interrupted. Then give it a ~5s CD.

This would be a compromise that dramatically lowers the potential damage output of Mistrust in the extremely rare best case scenario, but also substantially boosts the effect that it achieves in the worst (and really average) case scenario. (1-2 targets interrupted within kitten period within a 240 radius.)

It would also maintain the basic premise of the abilities name, in that you instill mistrust from others because you were used as an anchor to their misery.

Worst case scenario of 25 stacks for a long duration means you literally interrupted 5 people with a single CC. That, I say, deserves such high reward rather than compromise.

This.

Especially because 5 people who get interrupted so close together are almost certainly going to have some shared cleanse, which is exactly why condi mesmers are weak in larger fights.

So the potential for great power is only there in scenarios where the mesmer is already weak. That doesn’t seem so dangerous, to me.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Dondagora.9645:

Windwalker.7421:

…

Worst case scenario of 25 stacks for a long duration means you literally interrupted 5 people with a single CC. That, I say, deserves such high reward rather than compromise.

This.

Especially because 5 people who get interrupted so close together are almost certainly going to have some shared cleanse, which is exactly why condi mesmers are weak in larger fights.

So the potential for great power is only there in scenarios where the mesmer is already weak. That doesn’t seem so dangerous, to me.

Agreed, NEVER ICD on this trait’s current iteration. If you can interrupt 5 people stacked within 240 radius, the mesmer SHOULD reck those people. The likeliness of aoe cleanse is definitely an issue that would also ever prevent this from really becoming OP because the only place this could happen is PvE (who cares about weak mobs with no breakbar) or more seriously WvW, where zergs are stacked tightly, have stability and have aoe cleanse. In settings like this, our illusions are also crap so it’s not like this trait could even stack with conditions from shatters (that also need to be traited).

Furthermore, there is still the issue of which aoe interrupts to use. IF you really want to cram in as many aoe interrupts as possible, Chrono, illusions and dueling is the build. Illusions would probably be dropped so that chaos+CI cover conditions could happen but no aoe F3. Otherwise there is no point of mass aoe confusions if a single cleanse can take care of it. So realistically, Shield 5, gravity well. So a 90 CD elite does at most 30 aoe confusion if your enemies are stupid enough to spam skills in it, don’t use condi cleanses or stablility? A 40/30 second CD weapon skill on chrono…. and that’s it really. MoD (which also sucks that I can’t bring 3 stacks without HM) and… GS#5, focus 4.2, sword 4.2? These are all power weapons/skills… The base mesmer really can’t utilize this trait well. Now that I’ve given this more thought, I really think the issue is that we do need another way to make any weapon the mesmer has into a condi weapon. SI and Illusion traits can help but I think Mistrust needs something else tacked on.

Mistrust:
300 radius (instead of 240) 2 confusion on interrupt. No ICD.
(Like IP on engi) Your next crit causes 5 aoe confusions. 10 sec ICD. OR Critical hits from the mesmer cause confusion (2-3 seconds base; shatters, wells, auto attacks but NOT illusions.)

This would only really stack confusion so it could be easily cleansed but at least it would normalize the damage from this trait. I don’t think the interrupt portion would ever be OP in practice.