Guild Wars 2

Mesmer

• Signet of Humility: Reduced the moa transform duration of this skill from 10 seconds to 6 seconds. The defiance-bar damage has not been changed.

I personally think this is the lazy way out…

This is the smarter move, lazy would have been to nerf ability to CS elites.

EDIT: Though admittedly, it’s not as good for core spec w/out CD reduction.

skcamow.3527:

This is the smarter move, lazy would have been to nerf ability to CS elites.

I think the other way around. This nerfs core mesmer (which didn’t need a nerf) because of chrono. This is very bad maths but in a sense, you could say that since CS doubles Moa they halved the duration…

Moa needed a CD reduction in addition to the transform reduction but you take the good with the bad here, at least Moa is better balanced with chrono AND we can still CS elites.

Silverkey.2078:

skcamow.3527:

This is the smarter move, lazy would have been to nerf ability to CS elites.

I think the other way around. This nerfs core mesmer (which didn’t need a nerf) because of chrono. This is very bad maths but in a sense, you could say that since CS doubles Moa they halved the duration…

Yea, I think this kind of solidifies the fact that I don’t think we’ll ever see elite specs nerfed to be a ‘just as viable’ alternative as ANet said they would be pre-HoT release. Chrono is pretty much the biggest example of an elite spec that is wildly more powerful than the core class and they passed up the chance to nerf the Chrono interaction with this elite which has made the skill become as string as it is.

skcamow.3527:

Moa needed a CD reduction in addition to the transform reduction but you take the good with the bad here, at least Moa is better balanced with chrono AND we can still CS elites.

Yes, if we only wanted to change Moa, I would have reduced the duration, reduced the cooldown and increase the visual cue for the cast.

But I still think CS is unbalanceable. All skills are balanced according to effect/cooldown and CS just prevents balancing the CD properly, especially for high CD skills. Any CD higher than 150s is now only 75s, CD of 70-90s can be doubled. How do you balance that?

So… what to nerf next?

Silverkey.2078:

skcamow.3527:

Moa needed a CD reduction in addition to the transform reduction but you take the good with the bad here, at least Moa is better balanced with chrono AND we can still CS elites.

Yes, if we only wanted to change Moa, I would have reduced the duration, reduced the cooldown and increase the visual cue for the cast.

But I still think CS is unbalanceable. All skills are balanced according to effect/cooldown and CS just prevents balancing the CD properly, especially for high CD skills. Any CD higher than 150s is now only 75s, CD of 70-90s can be doubled. How do you balance that?

This is what happens when you mess with time. Pretty much in every sci fi venue it’s agreed that time shouldn’t be messed with. While my comment is somewhat meta, it does play out with the balancing issues and wonkiness of CS.

Silverkey.2078:

skcamow.3527:

Moa needed a CD reduction in addition to the transform reduction but you take the good with the bad here, at least Moa is better balanced with chrono AND we can still CS elites.

Yes, if we only wanted to change Moa, I would have reduced the duration, reduced the cooldown and increase the visual cue for the cast.

But I still think CS is unbalanceable. All skills are balanced according to effect/cooldown and CS just prevents balancing the CD properly, especially for high CD skills. Any CD higher than 150s is now only 75s, CD of 70-90s can be doubled. How do you balance that?

I get the justification to balance around the math but honestly I don’t think that should be the only, or even predominant consideration.

In this case you look at the raw power of the elites we have and consider if doubling them with CS is a problem through the lens of overall game balance (other profession specs and their strength).

Moa was deemed a problem and addressed (albeit needing the CD reduction). Double Gravity Well, Time Warp and Mass Invisibility have never been a large issue; the glaring one was Moa.

If ability to CS elites is taken away, sure that balances core mesmer better but at the same time it further reduces the chance that chronomancer builds other than the current condition meta become viable.

This is where the lazy argument comes into play. I think Anet can absolutely balance chronomancer and mesmer without taking CS/elite ability away. It just requires a bit of creativity. I’m not saying I have full faith in Anet and their ability per se, but I think it’s possible.

It won’t dissuade any of the whining though.

just check pvp forum .
moa duration is heavily nerfed into half , and people still saying mes op .

the hate towards mes isnt that its being op or not . it is simple , people dont want to deal with a tricky class as today games (not just gw2)are such braindead production .

btw they are still saying CS shouldnt affect elite after moa nerf , they are saying mes condi bomb is op for that 6s they are saying
“anet didnt delete mes yet ,so it is a bad patch “

and people wander why we got cele ele bunker meta last year .taking away any reasonable burst is just right way to avoid bunker meta lol .

So now moa is not worth using at all outside of chrono. GG ANet, what next? Time warp? Next mass invis, then anything decent?

I think that come the next expansion, we’re going down the route of every build must use one elite traitline and two core trait lines. It only seems odd now because we only have one elite spec each.

A shame, but I can’t see it changing.

This will surely stop bad PvP players from whining for more Mesmer nerfs.

I’m shocked and surprised, for once Anet nerfed the mesmer?!

Wait…that’s what they’ve been doing for 4 years

Guys – it’s the best they can do until the next BIG patch. They don’t want to rework and change stuff in between those anymore. So it’s fine.

Xyonon.3987:

Guys – it’s the best they can do until the next BIG patch. They don’t want to rework and change stuff in between those anymore. So it’s fine.

if they taker something they never give it back
6 sec is kitten harsh nerf. smart mesmer still can lock you down. average mesmer will probably use it with a team call to secure the lock and bad mesmer will use cs +moa twice to secure it

now core mesmer got nerfed to the core and will hardly be used anymore

Best thing they could do, now we have similar duration to pre hot without having touched mesmer in pve. That is exactly what they had to do. I’m happy for it from both pvp and pve side.

About the core mesmer thing..

While i get someone writing here could be at first mmo.. well the core mesmer is dead with every core class spec since hot release.

Well, this is what happens when xpac are release in every mmo.

We can expect, and ask for, new specialization to upgrade our build diversity.

But a balance focused on core spec after an xpac released?

Expecting to see balance focused on the old pre hot cores spec is like asking to focus wow balance over the old vanilla wow spec rather than over the last xpac.. kinda dumbless.

all the tears
wheres my bucket

I honestly don’t give a flying kitten about the moa nerf since I never use the skill, but if anyone thinks that the QQ is going to stop now, they’re delusional. The crybabies on the PvP forum will just move to the next thing on Mesmer they want nerfed.

Lol I guess this gives more counter play for bads who will still die and complain anyways. But harder vs anyone who knows that they are doing.

I’m personally the stubborn type who doesn’t want to use moa to win my fights, but this change almost justifies me spamming.

Only issue I have is how much this hurts core, unless they are just going to balance around everyone having elite specs now.

But perhaps mass invis is just better for core considering the reduced production.

This is by far superior to the nerfing CS route some thieves ‘Mesmers’ were suggesting.

Curunen.8729:

It won’t dissuade any of the whining though.

Unfortunatly this is true though

Levetty.1279:

This is by far superior to the nerfing CS route some thieves ‘Mesmers’ were suggesting.

Curunen.8729:

It won’t dissuade any of the whining though.

Unfortunatly this is true though

Superior? They took 4 seconds off a core mesmer elite that has a cd of 180 seconds.

I’d say this was the best thing Anet could’ve done and it really is. As others have pointed out, the crying won’t stop until Mesmer is no longer playable. Pvp subforum is riddled with horrible players so the crying won’t ever go away.

I’ve said this before but the game has evolved with the elite specs. Core specs are no longer relevant and this won’t change. The shift to elite specs and balancing around those is how they’re going forward with this game.

Now I really feel justified in using gravity well over Moa.

Ananeos.4587:

Levetty.1279:

This is by far superior to the nerfing CS route some thieves ‘Mesmers’ were suggesting.

Curunen.8729:

It won’t dissuade any of the whining though.

Unfortunatly this is true though

Superior? They took 4 seconds off a core mesmer elite that has a cd of 180 seconds.

You might have a point if Moa was keeping Mesmer valid in any game mode.

Core mesmer took a hit but they don’t seem to care about core classes over at anet.

That being said 6 seconds is still a LONG time and this in terms of chrono is a slap on the wrist. We’re still going to be meta boys

Anet always use the short way and just nerf everything that people whining is op then no one is using that anymore and use something else and then it’s going to get nerfed and in the end we have profession that no one play. Why dont nerf op stuff and buff unused stuff so there is something to change to.

Fay.2357:

I honestly don’t give a flying kitten about the moa nerf since I never use the skill, but if anyone thinks that the QQ is going to stop now, they’re delusional. The crybabies on the PvP forum will just move to the next thing on Mesmer they want nerfed.

And thats the waaaaay the news go! Sad but true.

So here goes the next Target of Opportunity for the biggest stealth nerf bomb the Mesmer class has ever endured: Continuum Split

The list of casualties is ever growing, and it won’t do a thing to stop the CS whining. The next target is of course Shatters due to Condition Mesmer, which of course already has MtD nerfed by 50% due to CS.

CS itself has been repeatedly nerfed, to the point where it’s but a shadow of it’s originally hyped design, but maybe that will come after everything else has been nerfed into the ground due to CS. (And in typical Anet fashion without any compensation on prior, misguided nerfs.)

Very sad. Not because of Moa itself mind you, I don’t care a lick about it TBH, but it was one of the few abilities that allows us to compete with some of the ludicrous crap other professions bring that seems to avoid the nerf bat again and again.

You might as well call this a major boost to Necros, Revenants, and Elementalists, because they will see a lot less of one of the only abilities in this game that they actually fear.

Core professions are dead and gone anyway, we all know it was a lie to claim they would remain competitive. It’s counterintuitive to business, so I don’t even blame them for that. The issue for this Moa nerf is really much more that it likely has a very minimal effect on high level team play, but completely kills yet another elite for everyone else.

Once again, a major nerf misses it’s mark..

Frankly I think Moa needs a full-on rework, but a duration nerf makes sense for now… 10 seconds was a stretch. I’m glad that this encourages Mesmers to slot Gravity Well instead, as I’ve always thought that skill was far more interesting and offered more counterplay. Moa’s a lame and oppressive skill that does not do justice to the rest of Mesmer’s considerably more interactive and exciting kit.

I still think condition Mesmer is too strong. Unfortunately it’s the only build that allows Mesmers to compete with other strong classes such as Revenant, Elementalist, etc. I hope ArenaNet shave down its power in certain areas while still keeping it viable, and buff other builds such as power shatter / interrupt / bunker / etc to promote build diversity.

Ok one question, when do U use moa, I mean in what situations? Do U realy need all 10 seconds in normal play. It’s mostly useful for necro (shroud, forms and minions), wariors and engies forms and maybe sometimes for druids. In everythig else mes had enough power to dominate an oponent.
Shorten cooldown could be nice but is not needed.

Moa is only worth it if you can land a kill
So with this change, you will have to use moa when the enemy is already low.

Called it.

cyyrix.6105:

I do wonder if the Continuum Split change will be too much work for anet on the technical side. It’s a lot easier to change a cooldown/duration/damage modifier/buff stack. Perhaps they’ll just throw a band-aid on it with something like a duration nerf on Moa.

Exciton.8942:

So with this change, you will have to use moa when the enemy is already low.

That sounds like a good change to me.

From experience if the moa isn’t already dead or locked down within 6 seconds, it would usually have run away already. So while it is a nerf I think it’s acceptable if it suppresses at least some of the QQ about mesmer. That said, they should have reduced the CD to make it more palatable for a core mesmer. A CD buff wouldn’t really affect a chronomancer anyway.

SPNKr.6208:

Exciton.8942:

So with this change, you will have to use moa when the enemy is already low.

That sounds like a good change to me.

From experience if the moa isn’t already dead or locked down within 6 seconds, it would usually have run away already. So while it is a nerf I think it’s acceptable if it suppresses at least some of the QQ about mesmer. That said, they should have reduced the CD to make it more palatable for a core mesmer. A CD buff wouldn’t really affect a chronomancer anyway.

It definitely puts in more thoughts and skills into its usage.
I still feel the skill is more worthy than gravity well because the amount of stability floating around. W/O moa, you won’t be able to land the killing blow on scrappers and druids.

FINALY ANET NURFING THERE FAVERITE CLAS FOUR ONCE MEZMURZ HAV BIN ON TEH TOP 4 2 LONG TIME FUR OTHER CLASES TOO HAV CHANCE ON PVP AL WAYZ HATED CUZ IT JUST 10 MEZMURZ WIT CS AN MOA 1 SHOTING GUD JOB ANET KEAP UP YUR BALANSING SKILS !!!

BTW WEN U BANING TEH AME BOTING HAKURS ?!?

Mesmer has been ANets favorite class?

I think the looneys are spilling over into this subforum.

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

FINALY ANET NURFING THERE FAVERITE CLAS FOUR ONCE MEZMURZ HAV BIN ON TEH TOP 4 2 LONG TIME FUR OTHER CLASES TOO HAV CHANCE ON PVP AL WAYZ HATED CUZ IT JUST 10 MEZMURZ WIT CS AN MOA 1 SHOTING GUD JOB ANET KEAP UP YUR BALANSING SKILS !!!

back to your cave, hobbit

favorite class? lol if only…no other game has a class unique like mesmer. while every typical mmo has the rogue, the ranger, the warrior and the elementalist. it’s a shame how mesmer gets buttkittened time after time because casuals do not care to understand mesmer class mechanic, and how to counter it. why would they, hop on the forum and see democracy at it’s finest LOL.

so well done, u got moa nerfed

what is the next item on your agenda?.

according to you, 5 mesmers vs 5 mesmers, if all were kitten each other so hard, how come only non-mesmers qq on the forum?

melandru.3876:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

FINALY ANET NURFING THERE FAVERITE CLAS FOUR ONCE MEZMURZ HAV BIN ON TEH TOP 4 2 LONG TIME FUR OTHER CLASES TOO HAV CHANCE ON PVP AL WAYZ HATED CUZ IT JUST 10 MEZMURZ WIT CS AN MOA 1 SHOTING GUD JOB ANET KEAP UP YUR BALANSING SKILS !!!

back to your cave, hobbit

favorite class? lol if only…no other game has a class unique like mesmer. while every typical mmo has the rogue, the ranger, the warrior and the elementalist. it’s a shame how mesmer gets buttkittened time after time because casuals do not care to understand mesmer class mechanic, and how to counter it. why would they, hop on the forum and see democracy at it’s finest LOL.

so well done, u got moa nerfed

what is the next item on your agenda?.

according to you, 5 mesmers vs 5 mesmers, if all were kitten each other so hard, how come only non-mesmers qq on the forum?

MEZMURZ NEAD THERE 30K DAM AGE NURFED AN THERE 10 ILUSION SHATERS GONE AN THERE 30+ STAKS OF BLEAD AN IDK MAY BEE THERE NEER IN VOLUNURABILITY THEN BALANSE BE FAIR AN OTHER CLASES BEE USE FULL

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

melandru.3876:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

FINALY ANET NURFING THERE FAVERITE CLAS FOUR ONCE MEZMURZ HAV BIN ON TEH TOP 4 2 LONG TIME FUR OTHER CLASES TOO HAV CHANCE ON PVP AL WAYZ HATED CUZ IT JUST 10 MEZMURZ WIT CS AN MOA 1 SHOTING GUD JOB ANET KEAP UP YUR BALANSING SKILS !!!

back to your cave, hobbit

favorite class? lol if only…no other game has a class unique like mesmer. while every typical mmo has the rogue, the ranger, the warrior and the elementalist. it’s a shame how mesmer gets buttkittened time after time because casuals do not care to understand mesmer class mechanic, and how to counter it. why would they, hop on the forum and see democracy at it’s finest LOL.

so well done, u got moa nerfed

what is the next item on your agenda?.

according to you, 5 mesmers vs 5 mesmers, if all were kitten each other so hard, how come only non-mesmers qq on the forum?

MEZMURZ NEAD THERE 30K DAM AGE NURFED AN THERE 10 ILUSION SHATERS GONE AN THERE 30+ STAKS OF BLEAD AN IDK MAY BE THERE NEER IN VOLUNURABILITY THEN BALANSE BE FAIR

i 100% agree with you

or, when you see that you have confusion on you..cleanse it, or stop pressing 1?
try it, you won’t kill yourself any longer i swear

on a serious note, half your post history is qq about mesmer

my favorite post of you is “I agree, moa every 50 seconds 3 times with Signet of illusions + mad condis ( 30 stacks of cripple, 25 immob + 5 stacks of fear + mad bleeds with all your phantasms that never die ) + nearly unkillable illusions + through the roof condis removals from inspiration ( and here I thought shoutbow was immune to condis ) + 7 to 8 ccs chained together + perma invis ( WTF is even the point of thief?!?!? ) + instant one shots on short CD ( alacrity OP who even thought giving only 1 class something this OP was good?!?!? ) + 25k health or MORE. I don’t see how anyone can defend this mesmer OP. The second they got a unique mechanic like alacrity is the second anet stepped out of the shadows and showed they biased towards mesmer ( not like we didn’t all know from launch mesmer is there baby ). Time for some other class like ele to get a chance in the spotlight plz ty.”

suddenly you can talk in a propper way? interesting. but more interesting is the tripple moa trick. how exactly does signet of illusions refresh f5? you are demanding nerfs 24/7 by using incorrect info and whatelse

LOL time for ele to stand in thei spotlight???? you never saw the d/d cele meta did you? it was only there, for what a year? or longer?
- also these perma stealthing mesmers (i wonder how, since torch is not used, nor is decoy or mass invis..as a matter of fact, current mesmer meta plays with absolutly NO STEALTH)
- cripple and immobilize both add in duration, they don’t stack but nice try
- mesmer has fear? that’s useful
- mad bleeds? that is only achievable by the duelist(pistol offhand, which we can’t use since we use shield + torch for the perma stealth remember) duelist trait line for bleed on crit, and actual crit gear but we overload you with condi so i guess we use viper amulet now instead of mercanary
- nearly unkillable illusions LOOOOOOL they die the moment they spawn in team fights, all the cleaves and aoe damage.
- through t he roof condi removal. can’t since we use chrono, illusons and duelist for all those crazy bleed stacks. or is there a way to have more then 3 trait lines?
- instant one shots on low cd. ah yes mindwrack, the good times of power shatterer. so now we also have the domination traitline, and full zerker/marauder spec to boost f1. we are on 5 trait lines, at once now LOL!
- 25k health and more, yes pls! and also 3k armor while we are at it

other than that all of your points are valid

guys like you are the cancer of mmo’s

melandru.3876:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

melandru.3876:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

FINALY ANET NURFING THERE FAVERITE CLAS FOUR ONCE MEZMURZ HAV BIN ON TEH TOP 4 2 LONG TIME FUR OTHER CLASES TOO HAV CHANCE ON PVP AL WAYZ HATED CUZ IT JUST 10 MEZMURZ WIT CS AN MOA 1 SHOTING GUD JOB ANET KEAP UP YUR BALANSING SKILS !!!

back to your cave, hobbit

favorite class? lol if only…no other game has a class unique like mesmer. while every typical mmo has the rogue, the ranger, the warrior and the elementalist. it’s a shame how mesmer gets buttkittened time after time because casuals do not care to understand mesmer class mechanic, and how to counter it. why would they, hop on the forum and see democracy at it’s finest LOL.

so well done, u got moa nerfed

what is the next item on your agenda?.

according to you, 5 mesmers vs 5 mesmers, if all were kitten each other so hard, how come only non-mesmers qq on the forum?

MEZMURZ NEAD THERE 30K DAM AGE NURFED AN THERE 10 ILUSION SHATERS GONE AN THERE 30+ STAKS OF BLEAD AN IDK MAY BE THERE NEER IN VOLUNURABILITY THEN BALANSE BE FAIR

i 100% agree with you

or, when you see that you have confusion on you..cleanse it, or stop pressing 1?
try it, you won’t kill yourself any longer i swear

U SAYING I SHOOD UZE HAKS TOO BEET TIS OP CLAS OF YURS ??? READ TEH COC PLZ

EDIT:

PS: on a scale of 1 to 10, how good did I do of inpersonating all the QQ people that come to the mesmer forums? As a mesmer main, I just needed to get it out of my system to prepare for the next wave of people QQing about mesmers and how they need to get nerfed more. And yeah, that other post was making fun of the same people. And I managed to squeeze all 6 traitlines in because the point was making fun of the PU QQ people with the whole perma stealth. Because clearly it’s soooooo overpowered and gets used once in every 10,560 games on average xD First WoP since expansion, then moa, what’s next? Guesses anyone? Oh and when was mirror blade changed again? I got a hard time keeping up lol.

Lol melandru and phokus, how are you falling for this?

@Exciton: Yeah, I agree moa still has its place.

SPNKr.6208:

Lol melandru and phokus, how are you falling for this?

@Exciton: Yeah, I agree moa still has its place.

not falling for it, it was too obvious. i checked the post history first however i could not tell if everything was serious or not. as OP said, he had troll posts to make fun of the qq’ers. sarcasm is hard to tell when writen on the internet.
i replied, a bit annoyed because anet actually listen to such posts(if they are written better) and there is enough proof for that. every balance patch, has stuff that you go “huh what, why did they nerf this, that is totally uncalled for”
this is starting to frustrate me

but ye here a summary of all the nerfs to mesmer that i can remember(and that are worth noting)

- mirror blade nerf. first they make Illusionary Elasticity baseline.. and then they remove the extra bounce from mirror blade. so lol not only do we get a useless trait as baseline(perhaps not useless, but for sure cutted) we also lose a bounce on mirror blade putting it in a weaker state then pre-patch, while the trait to make it better is baseline. oh the irony

- chaotic dampening nerf: was at a solid 5% first per pulse, cut in half

- maim the disillusioned nerf: pre patch was in same tier as illusionary persona. applied 2 stacks, for a max of 6 with 3 clones. illusionary persona became baseline, HOWEVER mtd got nerfed to apply only 1 stack per clone for a maximum of 4. lol again as with mirror blade, we get something baseline and it turns out to be weaker then pre-patch..

meh so much more bit i’m not gonna google them all. this will take too much time.

oh on the big trait reworking (the new trait tier system) does anyone remember the trait that gave confusion on crit for illusions? lol it never came, they removed it pre-release

well, time to nerf time warp now.

SPNKr.6208:

Lol melandru and phokus, how are you falling for this?

@Exciton: Yeah, I agree moa still has its place.

This is me.

Leave moa untouched but as soon as people start using it, strike it down. smh
I didn’t even need it so much so shrug

melandru.3876:

SPNKr.6208:

Lol melandru and phokus, how are you falling for this?

@Exciton: Yeah, I agree moa still has its place.

not falling for it, it was too obvious
i replied, a bit annoyed because anet actually listen to such posts(if they are written better) and there is enough proof for that. every balance patch, has stuff that you go “huh what, why did they nerf this, that is totally uncalled for”
this is starting to frustrate me

well, time to nerf time warp now.

Dude, you were had. You ate that bait hook, line, and sinker. Admit it with grace.

As if ppl didnt see this coming.

Lets be honest here, the nerf didnt change anything.

Moa is still the only way to break bunkers, core mesmer is even worse off than it was.
Mesmers are still going to bear the stigma of “super OP, cant beat any mesmer ever”, even though its very easy to chain CC us to death.

Oh well.

Cataca.3867:

Lets be honest here, the nerf didnt change anything.

Moa is still the only way to break bunkers, core mesmer is even worse off than it was.
Mesmers are still going to bear the stigma of “super OP, cant beat any mesmer ever”, even though its very easy to chain CC us to death.

Oh well.

Don’t forgot power shatter sucks, phantasm builds in PvP suck, bunker builds suck, condi is only good because you don’t see bunker guards, hambow Warriors and Cele ele’s cleansing every condi within a 900 radius.

Mesmer will always hear that cross due to the design. If you create a class built around dueling and people try to duel it… Yep you’re going to lose. Also don’t forgot that people still refuse to actually learn how to counter it. Oh I’ll just walk in circles while these illusions attack me. Oh! Now they are running towards me what do I do! Well you die.

I guess this is anets failure to properly balance… Would be nice to have tourney ready power shatter, phantasm, support, or whatever your poison for the day was. But no, one build and certain classes at a time