Guild Wars 2

Greatsword: The phantasm is the only good damage that comes out of this weapon. Everything else including skill 1- at all ranges – does pathetic damage.

Staff: Decent damage but too defensive. Skill 2 forces player to port away and skill 1 projectile speed is too slow.

Scepter: Skill 1 attack rate is too slow and weak. Skill 2 and 3 are good. No AoE on this thing making it horrible for PvE. EDIT: Skill 3 cast startup is too long.

Sword: Forces player to get up close to do any damage. Skill 2 is too slow and the range is pathetic.

Sword off-hand: It’s just crap…

Torch: Skill 4 is good, skill 5 is trash.

Pistol: Decent damage to single target…

Focus: Skill 4 is only good for PvP and skill 5 is only good for PvE. It’s a horrible weapon. I feel the only reason people use it is for the swiftness because that’s the only mobility mesmers have besides blink. Mesmers who don’t want to use focus – I don’t blame them – are forced to get rune of the centaur.

I think mesmers need some serious changes to their weapons.

I see what you’re doing here…

I main a necromancer and I just finished leveling a mesmer to 80 a couple days ago. In my opinion, mesmers are garbage compared to necromancers and I feel it’s because of their weapons. I just can’t find a weapon on mesmers that I’m happy with. They’re all bad… They at least have room for improvement.

For people who have only played mesmers, it wouldn’t be so easy to see an issue.

0/10 did not really feel trolled, would not read again.

OP hasn’t tried the Illusionary Crossbow that you get from Mystic Forging a lvl80 exotic longbow, rifle, focus and greatsword together.

See, it lets you fire greatsword bolts at 2400 range that inflict confusion and bleed on hit, and are passively AoE due to their “shatter on impact” trait. However, don’t be fooled! You can also split it in two in melee creating illusionary pistolswords, which allow you to use the iDuelist’s Unload combined with Blurred Frenzy for at least 6s at a time, on an 8s CD. 5s, if you trait for it.

Obviously you’d think our weapons suck if you didn’t even bother to learn how to use this puppy.

Ayanavi.1904:

OP hasn’t tried the Illusionary Crossbow that you get from Mystic Forging a lvl80 exotic longbow, rifle, focus and greatsword together.

See, it lets you fire greatsword bolts at 2400 range that inflict confusion and bleed on hit, and are passively AoE due to their “shatter on impact” trait. However, don’t be fooled! You can also split it in two in melee creating illusionary pistolswords, which allow you to use the iDuelist’s Unload combined with Blurred Frenzy for at least 6s at a time, on an 8s CD. 5s, if you trait for it.

Obviously you’d think our weapons suck if you didn’t even bother to learn how to use this puppy.

It’s made with NAMED Exotics, not just Exotics, but…

Scepter is better.

Just use pistol mainhand. Great range, awesome AoE and single target damage.
Phantasmal Sniper one-hits most normal mobs too.

Oh boy. I can fast see this materializing into an amazingly epic troll thread just like that “mesmers are op” garbled post a week ago.

Actually, as bizarre as this may sound, i know where he’s coming from. There are things on my necro that i wouldn’t attempt on my mes, mostly due to lack of aoe. I doubt i am a good necro player, but since i traited a bit into on-DS traits it feels stronger than my mes (both rare-geared) as it takes less dmg and kills mobs faster. Thing is, mesmer takes more player skill to play, it’s a much more active/cd awareness class than necro likely because we have effects tied to our illusions. It has a higher level of micro-management than the necro. On the other hand, i won’t go to southsun on my necro as he has no reflects/blocks. Apples and oranges?

People need to stop thinking that mesmer is a direct dmg class.

oh.. who am I kidding.

Funky.4861:

Actually, as bizarre as this may sound, i know where he’s coming from. There are things on my necro that i wouldn’t attempt on my mes, mostly due to lack of aoe. I doubt i am a good necro player, but since i traited a bit into on-DS traits it feels stronger than my mes (both rare-geared) as it takes less dmg and kills mobs faster. Thing is, mesmer takes more player skill to play, it’s a much more active/cd awareness class than necro likely because we have effects tied to our illusions. It has a higher level of micro-management than the necro. On the other hand, i won’t go to southsun on my necro as he has no reflects/blocks. Apples and oranges?

Yeah, I’ve put in 800 hours on my Mesmer and I just went Guardian to have some fun. I was surprised at the fact that all my weapon skills are on cooldown at times, forcing me to just sit there and auto attack. As a Mesmer, I’m always doing something and I rarely get more than 1 3-chain sword attack off at once.

@OP, you don’t know how to use a mesmer. I can take a thief on (who isnt a super ultimate awesome pro) but about 90% of the time I win. I win with using Staff and Greatsword different times mixed with Sword and Pistol.

AoE: Use Greatsword with Sword/Focus. #4 Greatsword fast cripple and AoE 3-4k if you trait correctly. Focus #5 High aoe damage 5-6k if you trait correctly too.
Single Target: Use Pistol or Off and Sword with whatever. Both phantasms do high single target damage if you trait correctly.
Melee: Sword owns. use 3 to cripple the guy, then switch places to immobilize THEN use sword #2. Keep repeating that sequence, it has a small cooldown.

Traits: For high illusional damage: II in dueling, III in domination, 25 points into inspiration, and III into illusions. Not that hard.

Weapons don’t suck on mesmers, you just need skill. Play a ele or thief for noobier style where you can clearly get high damage.

Hammerguard.9834:

I main a necromancer and I just finished leveling a mesmer to 80 a couple days ago. In my opinion, mesmers are garbage compared to necromancers and I feel it’s because of their weapons. I just can’t find a weapon on mesmers that I’m happy with. They’re all bad… They at least have room for improvement.

For people who have only played mesmers, it wouldn’t be so easy to see an issue.

Funny thing is i think the same about necromancer. Focus is clunky (most of time the chilling doesnt work, nor the other skill). condition damage is focused on bleeding, with is so easely removed. Traits are bugged. Dagger 4 works 50% of time. Apart from dagger auto attack, melee damage kinda sucks (thief beats it hands down, even GS warrior/guardian do imo damage wise). Healing skills to long cd. (they are strong, but cd is long.) Minions don’t respond (bad AI). Etc etc. Not saying necro sucks. But it’s quite buggy atm, and the weapon sets feel limited. I also hate the incredible limited about of escape skills necro has. Low amount of stunbreakers etc. Long cd on signets (should be shorter).

Tbh at some point i shared your feelings about mesmer. However now after so many hours i don’t share it anymore this opinion. Mesmer has more viable builds, and all weapons have good purposes. But you got dig deep to understand all purposes of mesmer. OP says temporal curtain sucks in pve. This is so single minded. It has loads of uses. Swiftness on allies, cripple on mobs, light combo field (retaliation on leap sword 3 skill, works twice even), and on top of all aoe interrupt. Hell if you trait it, i can even reflect projectiles. See where i’m going? On ‘lousy’ skill, but in the end one with tons of purposes. That is the nature of mesmer. Never look at a skill with a single mind.

I agree with the above comment. I feel that my Necro is limited to being a conditionmancer, whereas my Mesmer has much more build variety to choose from. And superior utilities. The only questionable Mesmer weapons are scepter and torch. I can’t take anyone who mocks focus or swords seriously.

Almost a good attempt at trolling. If you hadnt said necro I would be close to almost believing that you were just ignorant and not trolling.
I give a 2/10 for troll attempt.

You need to try a signet + retaliation build on your mesmer to understand the full power of your weapons.

He complains we have no AoE, yet we probably have the best AoE of any profession thanks to our profession mechanic. That is why our weapons have only a small amount of AoE.

Obviously this guy must be playing Warrior or Ele … right? Wait what no, he is playing necromancer. I play both and I clearly have more options as a Mesmer. Hammer, I would suggest if you feel this way stick to Necro, because you clearly have no understanding of the core of this profession.

I tend to agree with the OP. I’ve just got my Mesmer to 40 and it’s by far the most frustrating of the 8 classes so far. The damage done is well less than the other classes, and the AoE is terrible. Now maybe in SPvP or something it’s a better class, I wouldn’t know, and in a large event with lots of people you can do some decent support stuff, but all alone in PvE it’s a terribly frustrating class to play, since the damage cycles take so long to build, and there’s so much more micro-management in that if you’re fighting five guys, you have to spread clones out or when one of them dies you’re suddenly left all alone. My Necro would just annihilate them all in a half the time and with half the effort.

Ohoni.6057:

I tend to agree with the OP. I’ve just got my Mesmer to 40 and it’s by far the most frustrating of the 8 classes so far. The damage done is well less than the other classes, and the AoE is terrible. Now maybe in SPvP or something it’s a better class, I wouldn’t know, and in a large event with lots of people you can do some decent support stuff, but all alone in PvE it’s a terribly frustrating class to play, since the damage cycles take so long to build, and there’s so much more micro-management in that if you’re fighting five guys, you have to spread clones out or when one of them dies you’re suddenly left all alone. My Necro would just annihilate them all in a half the time and with half the effort.

Im sorry, but you clearly don’t know what you’re talking about. And how can you talk about “damage cycles” (wtf!) without talking about specific builds.

Mesmer is one of the best and balanced profs in the game because they can be used to great effect in all game modes (general PvE, solo, Dungeons, WvW, PvP).
And by the way, mesmer is great for solo play too. I can take on 10 mobs in orr without any problems, and everybody knows its great for soloing bosses too.

Just because its not a hit-2-buttons profession, doesn’t mean its bad. Its solely a LTP issue. Or maybe its just not your kind of playstyle…

And by the way, after Lvl 40 mesmer only gets better and better.

Im sorry, but you clearly don’t know what you’re talking about. And how can you talk about “damage cycles” (wtf!) without talking about specific builds.

Sorry, I’m by no means claiming any expertise on the Mesmer, this is just my own experience. I’m currently running staff – Specter/Focus, but mostly just the staff in combat. Traits seemed kind of pointless up to 40 (aside from the five points in the bottom one), I’ll see how the post-40 ones work out.

By “damage cycles” I just mean that Mesmers seem to do practically no instantaneous damage (especially with staff, which I acknowledge), and are almost entirely based on building up clone artillery barrages, maybe shattering them if that’s your thing, but in any case it takes time to stack up. They are like condition^2 builds. Like a standard power/precision type class would deal 100% damage over the course of a fight like 25-20-10-15-15-15, and a more standard condition class like a Thief or Necro might do it more like 15-10-10-20-20-25, my Mesmer seems to be more like 5-5-10-20-30-30, almost nothing up front, and then a ton at the back end of their life bar. And that’s if everything is going smoothly. If clones start dying prematurely then that can go a bit pear-shaped. I’m not saying that “Mesmers suck,” I’m just saying that having played every class a decent amount, the Mesmer is the most frustrating and annoying of the bunch so far. If it is a “LTP” issue, then it’s more of a “Learn to teach” problem on the dev’s end.

I am curious to know how best to use abilities against large packs though, since most of their abilities seem single target, maybe with a bounce, with a couple of AoE attacks to work with, and you can only assign three clones at a time, and if the guy you assign them to dies, then they just up and vanish on you. Compare that to my Necro, where I can roll up on ten guys and just Grasping Dead, Enfeebling Blood, Epidemic, Deathly Swarm, Blood is Power, and then just spam auto as all of their life bars plummet simultaneously, and then if I’m in any danger I can use Death Shroud or Spectral Walk to avoid them until my abilities come back up, and that’s without even pulling out the staff in my back pocket.

Mesmer weapons get the job done, but they certainly feel a bit schizophrenic.

Greatsword requires you to be at a range for max damage, yet our only viable main-hand is a melee weapon.

Staff is a hybrid of condition damage and power; there’s no proper weapon switch to match.

Scepter is mostly clones, with a side of power and condition.

Weapon design and GW2’s dual-slot requirement makes Mesmer much less intuitive than it has to be. This class would be much smoother if the weapons were ironed out a bit.

Hammerguard.9834:

I main a necromancer and I just finished leveling a mesmer to 80 a couple days ago. In my opinion, mesmers are garbage compared to necromancers and I feel it’s because of their weapons. I just can’t find a weapon on mesmers that I’m happy with. They’re all bad… They at least have room for improvement.

Well then Mesmer isn’t for you.
Same way Thief is not for me. But why you took 80 levels to realize that is weird.

Not every class is for everyone.

I love dual-Swords, for example. Apart from the style – which is awesome, especially being an Asura – the sheer idea of dual-wielding melee weapons as a clothie, and that actually being the more defensive setup… perfect!

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Just use pistol mainhand. Great range, awesome AoE and single target damage.
Phantasmal Sniper one-hits most normal mobs too.

I got shot by a mesmer that was using rifle, one hit kill and teh bullet exploded with purple electric mushroom nuke cloud and killed all the other things around me as well

i still have no idea what trait he/she was using and where he/she stood targeting me at that time

Hammerguard.9834:

Greatsword: The phantasm is the only good damage that comes out of this weapon. Everything else including skill 1- at all ranges – does pathetic damage.

Staff: Decent damage but too defensive. Skill 2 forces player to port away and skill 1 projectile speed is too slow.

Scepter: Skill 1 attack rate is too slow and weak. Skill 2 and 3 are good. No AoE on this thing making it horrible for PvE.

Sword: Forces player to get up close to do any damage. Skill 2 is too slow and the range is pathetic.

Sword off-hand: It’s just crap…

Torch: Skill 4 is good, skill 5 is trash.

Pistol: Decent damage to single target…

Focus: Skill 4 is only good for PvP and skill 5 is only good for PvE. It’s a horrible weapon. I feel the only reason people use it is for the swiftness because that’s the only mobility mesmers have besides blink. Mesmers who don’t want to use focus – I don’t blame them – are forced to get rune of the centaur.

I think mesmers need some serious changes to their weapons.

While this is mostly true, the only changes we’ll get (and the only ones we’ve gotten) are nerfs. So if you think iDuelist is decent dmg to single target, go on the QQ threads for every other profession about how we need this MONSTER nerfed.

The way I see it, blurred frenzy is all blur and no frenzy. It takes way too long to execute the skill, and sometimes the skill doesnt even execute unless you mash it a few times, and it’s so slow to finish that by the time you iLeap in and get started, half way through your frenzy the immobolize wears off.

Though I have to say, the focus is amazing for WvW and you just have to learn how to use it effectively

my first char was necro to 80 and second was ranger to 80. now, with a mesmer near 80 i have to say i love the class. it took me a bit to settle on weapons, but i like the gs and s/p combo. i have been killing stuff above my level and dealing with multiple mobs.

i have a feeling it will be better than my necro in the end, and i thought i was partial to it. now, i’m not so sure.

well am glad most of u arent happy with mesmer….cuz i am very super happy with the class…..it makes mesmer more desireable to me.and by the way Mesmer are harder to kill in pvp………..all those weapon stuff ya think is no good.u got to play with the traits..after that u will realise…mesmer are really all class roll into 1.

Its just difficult to understand how such a thread is even possible 6 month after release.

People still seem to be reading damage numbers on the weapon skills to determin what is a good profession…

Why not just play your 2-button greatsword warrior. Problem solved. Seeya

Carighan.6758:

Well then Mesmer isn’t for you.
Same way Thief is not for me. But why you took 80 levels to realize that is weird.

Not every class is for everyone.

I love dual-Swords, for example. Apart from the style – which is awesome, especially being an Asura – the sheer idea of dual-wielding melee weapons as a clothie, and that actually being the more defensive setup… perfect!

I didn’t feel like giving up on the class, but when I reach level 80 and I’m still having trouble finding weapon sets I’m happy with then there’s a problem. I recently found one I’m somewhat content with. Greatsword/staff – 30, 0, 20, 0, 20 – full berserkers. I think it’s kitten that mesmers have to get within melee distance to be able to pull off any decent damage especially considering that the sword skills themselves are crap. I had to come up with something that could pull off decent damage without using a sword. Let me tell you, it’s not easy.

The AoE provided is nice as well.

Hammerguard.9834:

Sword off-hand: It’s just crap…

Hahahahahahaha

Ah, but seriously, the great thing about Mesmer weapons isn’t the damage they cause as much as it is the shear amount of utility they carry in them (such as the staff’s defensive properties). This isn’t a bad thing—quite contrary, it gives you an incredible amount of versatility in battle, especially when you come to properly manage both your weapon sets in synergy with each other.

Although I’m not sure what’s pathetic about the sword’s range when it’s the same as just about every other melee weapon in the game. Melee is not an inherently inferior form of combat, and we can do quite well up there with all of our ability to mitigate damage.

I love dual swords on my mesmer and use them 90% of the time.

Ohoni.6057:

Im sorry, but you clearly don’t know what you’re talking about. And how can you talk about “damage cycles” (wtf!) without talking about specific builds.

Sorry, I’m by no means claiming any expertise on the Mesmer, this is just my own experience. I’m currently running staff – Specter/Focus, but mostly just the staff in combat. Traits seemed kind of pointless up to 40 (aside from the five points in the bottom one), I’ll see how the post-40 ones work out.

By “damage cycles” I just mean that Mesmers seem to do practically no instantaneous damage (especially with staff, which I acknowledge), and are almost entirely based on building up clone artillery barrages, maybe shattering them if that’s your thing, but in any case it takes time to stack up. They are like condition^2 builds. Like a standard power/precision type class would deal 100% damage over the course of a fight like 25-20-10-15-15-15, and a more standard condition class like a Thief or Necro might do it more like 15-10-10-20-20-25, my Mesmer seems to be more like 5-5-10-20-30-30, almost nothing up front, and then a ton at the back end of their life bar. And that’s if everything is going smoothly. If clones start dying prematurely then that can go a bit pear-shaped. I’m not saying that “Mesmers suck,” I’m just saying that having played every class a decent amount, the Mesmer is the most frustrating and annoying of the bunch so far. If it is a “LTP” issue, then it’s more of a “Learn to teach” problem on the dev’s end.

I am curious to know how best to use abilities against large packs though, since most of their abilities seem single target, maybe with a bounce, with a couple of AoE attacks to work with, and you can only assign three clones at a time, and if the guy you assign them to dies, then they just up and vanish on you. Compare that to my Necro, where I can roll up on ten guys and just Grasping Dead, Enfeebling Blood, Epidemic, Deathly Swarm, Blood is Power, and then just spam auto as all of their life bars plummet simultaneously, and then if I’m in any danger I can use Death Shroud or Spectral Walk to avoid them until my abilities come back up, and that’s without even pulling out the staff in my back pocket.

See, thats your issue right there. you like to drop condi dmg on something and auto till it dies. Mesmers are immensely more active than that. If your lvl 40 on your mesmer and dnt have deceptive evasion traited and are complaining about clone generation being too slow then you clearly havent put the time into learning the class. Our shatters give us amazing aoe and condition damage. Granted confusion is somewhat broken in pve since it does not proc as often as it should(its amazing in pvp tho).

Im prolly going to catch some flack for saying this from other mesmers who like the staff but imo the staff is garbage if your looking for dps auto is too slow and the damage isnt as high as it should be considering the slow attack speed. However the staff is a great if youre looking for a defensive weapon. Id recommend GS + Sword/Pistol or Focus if you want to kill stuff faster. The mesmer is one of the easiest classes to level and its major fun if you know how to play it correctly. You just need to learn how to use a mesmer correctly. Its not the devs responsibility to teach you how to play the game that task falls to you, the player.

Not sure why you think that we dont do instantaneous damage considering ALL the ways we can and do do just that.

See, thats your issue right there. you like to drop condi dmg on something and auto till it dies.

Well, not necessarily, I mean on other classes that doesn’t work (and obviously with the Necro you have to use other abilities as they become available too), I was just using the Necro as a comparison and showing why they were much more effective at dropping tons of AoE conditions when compared to my Mesmer, and considering that Necros are probably the closest class to Mesmers (given that they are cloth, have lots of condition damage, and use disposable “pets.”).

Mesmers are immensely more active than that. If your lvl 40 on your mesmer and dnt have deceptive evasion traited and are complaining about clone generation being too slow then you clearly havent put the time into learning the class.

I don’t have Deceptive Evasion traited at the moment, but since I only just hit 40 anyways it was completely unavailable to this point. If it’s vital to the class then it probably should have been available much earlier.

Our shatters give us amazing aoe and condition damage.

But the problem with Shatters is that it kills all Clones and Phantasms, and Phantasms are much harder to replace. If you have a very Shatter-focused build that treats them as disposable then fair enough, but even in that build it takes time to queue up the three illusions, kill them off, and then you’re left alone and have to rebuild them while all the remaining enemies turn to target you (meaning you might want to wait until their cooldowns are up). The “burst” of a shatter is “instantaneous,” but only after you’ve spent several seconds setting up the conditions for it. It would be far better of you could A. launch only one or two illusions rather than all of them, or B. if you could queue up clones before battle, like Necro pets.

Anyways, I’m not arguing that Mesmers can’t be made good, clearly some people have had a lot of success with them. All I’m saying is that they don’t seem to work well “out of the box,” and the specialized knowledge that makes them playable is not well explained to the players. A good class just works, you throw them at the enemy, use the abilities as listed, and do a decent job of it. Of course there should be “secret” builds that require a lot of clever tricks to get a marginal boost in performance, but they should be a lot less hassle right from the start. The other problem that I had is that they still seem to have more momentum than any other class in the game, taking far longer to get going than other classes.

And for the record, I can’t imagine Mesmers as being “one of the easiest classes to level” for anyone. Even the “no, they’re totally not sucky guys!” build videos seem to focus on mid-game to higher tier traits. Warriors are the easiest to level, without question, then probably Guardians, then maybe Thieves. Eles and Necros are good, but take until at least their teens or 20s to take off (still well earlier than the Mesmer though). I haven’t played my Engineer since they made a few changes to the class so I can’t comment yet, but they were better too last I checked. Mesmers may be way better at the upper levels, but I would never suggest someone start with one.

Ohoni.6057:

Well, not necessarily, I mean on other classes that doesn’t work (and obviously with the Necro you have to use other abilities as they become available too), I was just using the Necro as a comparison and showing why they were much more effective at dropping tons of AoE conditions when compared to my Mesmer, and considering that Necros are probably the closest class to Mesmers (given that they are cloth, have lots of condition damage, and use disposable “pets.”).

Actually you can do that, especially with the more “simple” straight forward classes such as a warrior. Yes necros have pets but they are not the same. Minions are less disposable than clones for one. Also from the time I spent on a necro(to be fair I only got it to around 45 before deleting it so I havent had any lvl 80 necro experience yet) they were extremely clunky to me, slower at killing things than my mesmer, and none of the weapon sets felt right, but hey thats y I don’t play em we all got a class that just “fits” and necro didnt do it for me even though they are pretty cool and nice to have in a party.

I don’t have Deceptive Evasion traited at the moment, but since I only just hit 40 anyways it was completely unavailable to this point. If it’s vital to the class then it probably should have been available much earlier.

Well then you should get right on it =P As for whether or not its vital…eh that’s debatable. You don’t necessarily need it but you will be hard pressed to find a mesmer that does not run Deceptive Evasion in their build. It greatly increases clone generation especially when paired with utilities such as Mirror Images and Decoy.

But the problem with Shatters is that it kills all Clones and Phantasms, and Phantasms are much harder to replace. If you have a very Shatter-focused build that treats them as disposable then fair enough, but even in that build it takes time to queue up the three illusions, kill them off, and then you’re left alone and have to rebuild them while all the remaining enemies turn to target you (meaning you might want to wait until their cooldowns are up). The “burst” of a shatter is “instantaneous,” but only after you’ve spent several seconds setting up the conditions for it. It would be far better of you could A. launch only one or two illusions rather than all of them, or B. if you could queue up clones before battle, like Necro pets.

Again that boils down to the build you are using, whether or not you are running Deceptive Evasion and what utilities you are running. From what you are saying you arent playing the mesmer right if you want more clones at your disposal. We can generate clones like crazy.

As for shatters killing all clones and phants that comes down to how well you micro manage your clones shatters wont kill your phants if you dont blunder cast a phant right before you pop a shatter its that simple. Clone management is a big element of mesmer play. Generating clones for shatters as well as using shatters is very fast if you know what you are doing. Not trying to beat ya up just saying if you want to stick with the mesmer you will have to put some serious time into figuring them out. Thats why mesmers are considered a top tier class, because of the skill required to play them well.

All I’m saying is that they don’t seem to work well “out of the box,” and the specialized knowledge that makes them playable is not well explained to the players. A good class just works, you throw them at the enemy, use the abilities as listed, and do a decent job of it. Of course there should be “secret” builds that require a lot of clever tricks to get a marginal boost in performance, but they should be a lot less hassle right from the start. The other problem that I had is that they still seem to have more momentum than any other class in the game, taking far longer to get going than other classes.

Then play a warrior…mesmers are intended to be a complex class if you want a cookie cutter class where you dont have to do any thinking to play them well the mesmer isn’t right for you.

And for the record, I can’t imagine Mesmers as being “one of the easiest classes to level” for anyone.

Not to beat a dead horse but again it comes down to how you play em, plain and simple. leveling my mesmer was the easiest and most fun I’ve had leveling a new toon and it was cheap too. I was able to play up to about lvl 60 or so only upgrading my gear every 10-15 levels no problem but when I started running dungs I made sure to have level appropriate gear. Anyways spiel all done just remember if you wanna be good with the mesmer it has a much higher learning curve than other classes but its very rewarding when you get the play style down.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Hammerguard.9834:

I main a necromancer and I just finished leveling a mesmer to 80 a couple days ago. In my opinion, mesmers are garbage compared to necromancers and I feel it’s because of their weapons. I just can’t find a weapon on mesmers that I’m happy with. They’re all bad… They at least have room for improvement.

For people who have only played mesmers, it wouldn’t be so easy to see an issue.

Funny thing is i think the same about necromancer. Focus is clunky (most of time the chilling doesnt work, nor the other skill). condition damage is focused on bleeding, with is so easely removed. Traits are bugged. Dagger 4 works 50% of time. Apart from dagger auto attack, melee damage kinda sucks (thief beats it hands down, even GS warrior/guardian do imo damage wise). Healing skills to long cd. (they are strong, but cd is long.) Minions don’t respond (bad AI). Etc etc. Not saying necro sucks. But it’s quite buggy atm, and the weapon sets feel limited. I also hate the incredible limited about of escape skills necro has. Low amount of stunbreakers etc. Long cd on signets (should be shorter).

Tbh at some point i shared your feelings about mesmer. However now after so many hours i don’t share it anymore this opinion. Mesmer has more viable builds, and all weapons have good purposes. But you got dig deep to understand all purposes of mesmer. OP says temporal curtain sucks in pve. This is so single minded. It has loads of uses. Swiftness on allies, cripple on mobs, light combo field (retaliation on leap sword 3 skill, works twice even), and on top of all aoe interrupt. Hell if you trait it, i can even reflect projectiles. See where i’m going? On ‘lousy’ skill, but in the end one with tons of purposes. That is the nature of mesmer. Never look at a skill with a single mind.

This. A thousand times over, this. I’m still learning the ins and outs, and the one thing as a new mesmer player I’m learning is that there are always more ins and outs to learn.

This response is mainly for Ohoni, but I was too lazy to quote him.

You have valid points, and I feel like Advent’s response was moderately ’l2p’ish – So I’ll try and explain and answer your concerns a bit more in depth.

We’ll start with Deceptive Evasion, it’s in Dueling’s 20 slot, and it allows you to generate a clone upon dodge. To many Mesmers, this is a game changer, especially if you have fairly high precision to take advantage of Dueling 5’s minor trait of granting vigor when you crit. The end result is that your concern for the time taken to create illusions is now resolved because you can pop them out very rapidly between weapon skills, utilities, and of course, just hitting dodge – and thanks to vigor, you can dodge often.

However, it is not vital to the profession. It is extremely useful, yes, but not something that forces you to take it or die. For specific builds, such kittenter-centric ones, Deceptive Evasion is a staple trait that is always there, because it provides such easily accessible shatter fodder.

Which leads to shatters. If you’re in a shatter centric build as you mentioned, you would normally have Deceptive Evasion, thus eliminating the “takes time to create them”. It is not an exaggeration to say that I can nearly instantly toss up at least 6 illusions for a full F1-F2 shatter sequence.

This eliminates your concerns for them leaving you alone after you shatter. Another thing that helps is simply gaining experience as a Mesmer in learning how to juggle and manage what illusions you have up and when you feel it’s best to keep them up, or expend them.

In the case of a phantasm build where your illusions are primarily phantasms, and thus harder to get out, shattering is generally an icky idea. But keep in mind that by switching weapons, and possibly with utilities if you prefer that, you can nearly instantly create at least 2 phantasms. Using myself as an example, I often like to put down iWarden on ranged mobs, then switch to GS and drop an iZerker. there’s two phantasms. If I so cared to, I could use iDefender for a third, and they all serve vital purposes. The Warden blocks projectiles and AoEs, the Berserker cripples and deals damage, drawing attention from the warden, and the Defender soaks up damage for the other two (and party members!)

But that’s simply an example. naturally you wouldn’t shatter if your build relied on phantasms being out, but weapon phantasms aren’t on a long enough CD to really warrant concern. If your phantasms do drop, your average clones can provide meatshields until your phantasms return – Because their CD will likely only be a few seconds off.

A lot of people were, in the past, annoyed at how the illusions functioned. A lot of people, honestly, still are – And suggestions like yours to treat them as pets keep abounding, but Anet’s vision for Mesmer does not line up with that. It is unlikely they will ever do that, and so we are forced to adapt and use what we have – Which is in some ways worse, and in some ways better.

pt 2 in a moment.

pt 2 is now here.

You make a valid point that Mesmers are not simple professions to play. “Out of the box”, Mesmer is wholly underwhelming, and at times can be confusing and feel as if you’re just being ineffectual. I, and other Mesmers most likely, will disagree that a good profession just works.

If you have played a fighting game, you may be familiar with the concept of tiered characters. Some characters are just naturally very easy to pick up and use. With skill, they can become better, but these are entry level characters. Because they are easy to pick up and use does not make them good, it makes them a wonderful starting point. And, for some, it means they enjoy right where they are and are not forced to get better to enjoy the game.

As the tiers progress up, you begin finding more and more characters who may feel awkward at first, but have hidden depths and potentials to them that you must work to learn, figure out, and unlock. In my mind, this is the Mesmer. This is the Elementalist.

With an Elementalist, you can pick up the profession and kind of muddle your way through, getting sort of an idea of how things work. People will know whether you’re any good at it, though, because “passable” for Elementalist is a far cry from “good”.

In a similar vein, Mesmer is a profession you will pick up and be stumped or challenged by. “What am I doing wrong? Is this profession broken? Why do I see so many other people doing awesome things with them? Is it just me?”

Mesmers are simply not meant to be your standard entry level character. Warriors are, guardians are, thieves are. Mesmers are higher tiered, meaning you will need to devote more attention and more effort to really getting their worth out of them.

This is the logic I use when I say I disagree with you that a good profession just works.

And yes, Mesmer gets more interesting around level 40 and higher. For a Mesmer, traits are everything – So much potential at your finger tips that it can revolutionize how you play. Most agree that Mesmers are not comparably easy to level, and this falls in line with my previous explanation of tiered character logic.

the higher tiered characters aren’t easy to get started with. It takes practice, and time, before they really start to get going.

So, as you mentioned at the end, and staying in chain with my example, it would generally be silly to suggest to someone to start with a higher tiered character before they even knew the mechanics of a game from the entry/mid tier ones. In this sense, starting as a Mesmer can and will simply turn off a great deal of people.

For the select few, however, starting as a Mesmer leads you to wondering how any other profession lives with themselves.

idk, but maybe u need to change your build. see how someone uses staff and scepter/focus here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ur1D5GeIFa8

u see here that it is all about the confusion here. for pve i recommend something like a strong power based build with lots of clones to shatter.
a mesmer is more about the abilities than the weapons. I love using nr 2 staff as it saves your life quite often. my combo goes like this. ill run into a zerg with scepter/focus cast feedback and nullfield, then use temporal curtain to pull enemies through the glamfields again, switch to staff nr2 to back off, cast staff nr4 and then use nr5 to finish downed players, then u switch back to scepter and use nr 2 which can deal confusion dmg up to 5k and finish downed players with scepter 3 and scepter 5.
what im saying is, mesmers have very powerful utility skills that can be a death traps. if you are more shatter based u will use your weapons more to cast clones and evade attcks as your weapon in fact are the clones. In my case, i do shatter of course but my weapon skills do support my glam build. and there is sooo many different builds that have to be aligned with your armor and weapons.
glamour build has barely any weapon power as we all stack precision,toughness condition dmg. If u want to deal more dmg with like GS u want to stack power in traits and armor.try out what works best for u and im sure u will find weapons more useful.

Actually you can do that, especially with the more “simple” straight forward classes such as a warrior. Yes necros have pets but they are not the same. Minions are less disposable than clones for one. Also from the time I spent on a necro(to be fair I only got it to around 45 before deleting it so I havent had any lvl 80 necro experience yet) they were extremely clunky to me, slower at killing things than my mesmer, and none of the weapon sets felt right, but hey thats y I don’t play em we all got a class that just “fits” and necro didnt do it for me even though they are pretty cool and nice to have in a party.

I fully get not getting into the Necro, I tried one in beta, hated it, tried one after launch as my. . . 6th character I think, and grew to like her a lot once I got into a style I enjoyed and she’s now my 4th highest character. I’ve been Scepterdagger/staff for a while now, and didn’t like the other weapons much at all. I’m not saying the Necros are perfect, far from it, but they can be a lot of fun once you get a feel for them (which I assume is true for Mesmers too, I’m just not feeling it yet).

Again that boils down to the build you are using, whether or not you are running Deceptive Evasion and what utilities you are running. From what you are saying you arent playing the mesmer right if you want more clones at your disposal. We can generate clones like crazy.

I agree that it’s not too hard to have at least one Clone available to summon, often more than that. It’s more that I want more Phantasms, and don’t like how they all get destroyed if I shatter, or if I put them all on a single target in a pack and that target dies. I mean, if I dump AoE conditions on five guys with a Necro, then they are all taking damage. If I dump two clones and a Phantasm on a single enemy in a pack, and that enemy dies, then I’m back to scratch against the rest of them. I suspect that I have to spend a lot more time micromanaging which enemy I’m targeting, whereas with most classes I just point in the general direction of the enemies and fire.

Then play a warrior…mesmers are intended to be a complex class if you want a cookie cutter class where you dont have to do any thinking to play them well the mesmer isn’t right for you.

That sort of elitism really isn’t helpful to anyone. It IS a failing of the design if the class doesn’t work right out of the box. There is no advantage to ANet or the average player for any class to be especially difficult to pick up. Every class should fit the mantra “a minute to learn, a lifetime to master.” Yes, a “master” Mesmer who really has his kitten together should be able to do things that are really impressive with it, and well outperform novice players of any class, but even an idiot behind the wheel of a Mesmer should be reasonably capable and it’s ANet’s job to insure that either my making he base mechanics work simply, or training the players as they go to do things right (without pushing them to third party tutorials).

It’s like if you use a school grading system, where an “F” is a "failure, a character that dies way too often, kills way too slowly, and finds himself generally frustrated with the entire experience, and an “A” is a top-tier player that can smoke larger groups in PvP, carry a terrible group through a dungeon, that sort of thing, and a “C” is just getting by, able to get through PvE content with relatively few deaths, able to deal about as much damage as the average player, etc.

I think that with any class, it’s the developer’s job to design them in such a way that it’s almost impossible to get below a “C”. Every player should have fun, even if they suck. It’s the player’s job to then take that C and raise it to a B or an A by fully mastering things, and many will fail at that, but the player shouldn’t really have to work to pull themselves up from a D or below.

Anyways spiel all done just remember if you wanna be good with the mesmer it has a much higher learning curve than other classes but its very rewarding when you get the play style down.

Saying that a class has a high learning curve is pretty much the opposite of saying that it’s easy to level.

A lot of people were, in the past, annoyed at how the illusions functioned. A lot of people, honestly, still are – And suggestions like yours to treat them as pets keep abounding, but Anet’s vision for Mesmer does not line up with that. It is unlikely they will ever do that, and so we are forced to adapt and use what we have – Which is in some ways worse, and in some ways better.

A lot of good points, so don’t think I’m ignoring the stuff I’m not quoting, but on this specifically, one thing I really wish is that they would at least stick around for the duration of a fight, and not be based on a single enemy. If you could fight three enemies, put all the clones on one, then it dies, but instead of vanishing they move to the next guy, and only when there are no nearby enemies do they all vanish, I think it would make Mesmers so much easier to use.

As the tiers progress up, you begin finding more and more characters who may feel awkward at first, but have hidden depths and potentials to them that you must work to learn, figure out, and unlock. In my mind, this is the Mesmer. This is the Elementalist.

See, I feel that the “tier” system is just another name for an “unbalanced” system. It’s taking a flawed system and digging success out of it. If the game worked in an ideal state then every class (or fighter character) would be roughly equally good in the hands of novices, and also equally as good in the hands of the experts, and the experts would beat the novices regardless of the characters used by either, based on skill alone. Character choice would be based on how you want to play, rather than how difficult you want it to be for you. There is no need for any character to be worthless in the hands of a novice and masterful in the hands of an expert. For a class to be “good” all around then it needs to be balanced at both ends of the experience scale, if it’s only balanced for one or the other then it’s an incomplete class, perhaps not completely broken if people can manage success with it, but still flawed.

With an Elementalist, you can pick up the profession and kind of muddle your way through, getting sort of an idea of how things work. People will know whether you’re any good at it, though, because “passable” for Elementalist is a far cry from “good”.

Yeah, but Eles sort of work themselves out by the teens or twenties, when you get used to them and learn their abilities. After that it’s all downhill. My Ele was the second I got to 80.

@OP mesmer weapons are a pain in the neck starting out. I will be honest. I dropped my mes for about a month at around level 20 because I was just too frustrated with how it worked and felt like I died wayyyyy too much. Fast forward 60 levels. I use my mesmer for everything. I hardly play any alts anymore and use nothing but my mesmer. This is a very demanding class and few of our weapons are inherently “great”. I will break down your list for you.

Scepter: Skill 1 is a slow attack rate, BUT you can easily generate clones and skill two gives you a clone and a very good amount of damage if the block lands. If not you can still blind your foe. Skill 3 is just great with your shatters(illusionary retribution15 pt trait in illusions). It is quite easy to stack confusion with that skill and timing is everything. (scepter would be better if they brought back how it used to be when its auto attack added confusion)

Staff: 20 points into chaos and take chaotic dampening it really adds to survivability and gives your staff skills a shorter cooldown.

Sword: Its a melee weapon and the illusionary leap/swap combo is great when it works. And blurred frenzy is good even if we aren’t near an enemy because it gives us some good defense. Sword off hand gives a phantasm that does the highest damage in a single attack. Not to mention that sword 4 has c/c and a block that does damage and gives a clone. Couple a scepter with a sword. You easily have the highest illusion generation weapon set available to mesmers. 4/5 of these weapon skills have the ability to generate and illusion. Now the downside is if you are fighting someone that is chaining attacks you will only block one but it still helps you on the opening and does damage as well. You with this set though you can easily have a full set of illusions out without using any utility slots or dodging.

Greatsword: The izerker is my homie and he does good at helping ensure that our enemies don’t get away. Skill two does good damage but this is if you trait illusionary elasticity in illusions… Then you can get 9 stacks of vuln on them and 6 stacks of might on you (I think) not to mention the damage of this skill is now doubled. Skill 3 most mesmers would agree is a joke because its AOE is small and the sword is better for boon stripping. Skill 5 is good crowd control.

Torch: For the trade off in cooldowns most don’t like it some love it. If you trait for cleansing conflagration in domination your torch skills remove conditions and that is a plus because we have crap condition removal in other skills. Skill 5 is good for confusion heavy builds so someone with a scepter/torch and glamours traited to blind/confuse can easily wrack confusion and against ele’s that are using tornado or thieves with dagger storm its an instant win.

Pistol: not decent single target damage but AMAZING single target damage. And if you are willing to give up other points else where and trait duelists discipline this bad boy can become a 100% combo projectile finisher. So if you have any glamor skill (null field/feedback/veil/timewarp) you can wrack up 8 stacks of confusion by pressing 2 buttons. And pistol 5 has amazing crowd control… you can stop up to four targets cold and its wonderful in wvw or in dungeons.

Focus: This might be my favorite off hand weapon. Once again its usefulness relies heavily on traits. If you trait wardens feedback (20 in inspiration) your warden not only blocks projectiles but reflects them. You can have rangers/unload thieves/killshot warriors just kill themselves and its beautiful. Plus the temporal curtain is a combo field light which gives you retaliation if you do sword 3 from there. Plus the iWarden can do almost 4.5k damage just off of his attack excluding the reflects. And this is with no traits in power line.

TL:DR

mesmer weapons are great but we rely most heavily on our traits to have our weapons be great. This is more so than any other class in the game.

Ohoni.6057:

one thing I really wish is that they would at least stick around for the duration of a fight, and not be based on a single enemy. If you could fight three enemies, put all the clones on one, then it dies, but instead of vanishing they move to the next guy, and only when there are no nearby enemies do they all vanish, I think it would make Mesmers so much easier to use.

I gave up questioning phantasm logic.

“They’re meant to be an extension of the player!” – Except their crits don’t trigger sigils/foods.

“They’re illusions in the mind of the target!” – Except they deal AoE damage and can be spawned on objects. Seriously? I tricked the mind of a box into thinking it was being stabbed?

Clones dying when a target goes down can be used in conjunction with a couple of our traits though, like aoe cripple on kill, and random conditions on kill. Any death that is not a shatter counts as a “kill”, so in this way, we can at least make use of the silly logic they use.

As for the tier system being broken – We’ll just have to disagree here. I’m actually of the opinion that, using your grading system, people who can only manage an F deserve to get their F. It wouldn’t be the school system or developer’s problem to make them feel better about themselves by ensuring they got at least bare minimum somehow.

So in that regard, I think a tiered system where the reward you get can be reflected by the amount of effort you put in, where failure for lack of skill or practice is allowed, works fine.

If you want to do a dungeon, but you’re too bad or can’t figure out the trick to it, then you naturally can’t complete it, nor experience its content, or get its reward. You could look at that as a punishment.

Alternatively, you could see it as the reward for getting better is overcoming this dungeon, experiencing its content, and getting its reward.

I can’t sympathize or agree with the concept that everyone should succeed regardless of their skill and effort. It may sound elitist, but I feel it’s perfectly natural that people who are good enough to climb a mountain be allowed to see what’s on the other side – And those who can only make it half way, remain on the side they started on. If they really want to see the other side, they’ll keep trying and eventually get over it – But not before they’re forced to get better to overcome the challenge.

If that person is bad, but really wants it, then I’m all for helping them get better to get there. But otherwise… They just have to deal with the fact that without practice or effort, they won’t get the reward.

But that’s just differing opinions, so we can’t really resolve that.

I use sceptre/torch and can kill anyone. What more do I need?

@OP mesmer weapons are a pain in the neck starting out. I will be honest. I dropped my mes for about a month at around level 20 because I was just too frustrated with how it worked and felt like I died wayyyyy too much. Fast forward 60 levels. I use my mesmer for everything. I hardly play any alts anymore and use nothing but my mesmer. This is a very demanding class and few of our weapons are inherently “great”. I will break down your list for you.

Ok, so here’s a question, are level 40+, 60+ 80, etc. Mesmers good because you players have gotten so much better at using them, or because “blank slate” Mesmers are a functionally broken class, with too much of their potential tied up into master+ traits? I mean, if you level 80 players were to strip down to low level gear/runes/sigils, and retrait without allocating any more than 30 points and only into first tier traits, do you feel that you would still be really dominant in low level areas that are balanced for those traits, or do you feel that the higher tier traits and other options are necessary to making things work?

If the latter I would say that they should re-balance when certain trait options become available, or buff up some base elements or something to make them more functional without those options when playing at lower levels. So long as the game doesn’t start you at 80, they really do need to consider viability at all levels, especially within the first ten levels when players are least experienced with the class.

“They’re meant to be an extension of the player!” – Except their crits don’t trigger sigils/foods.

“They’re illusions in the mind of the target!” – Except they deal AoE damage and can be spawned on objects. Seriously? I tricked the mind of a box into thinking it was being stabbed?

Yeah, I wish they would use the logic “they are holograms constructed of magical energy.” and just leave them at that. Maybe instead of having them disperse on enemy death, or stick around indefinitely like a Necro pet, just give them lifespans, like they each only last thirty seconds or so, and you can carry them to a second fight if you move fast enough, but then will soon have to replace them. That I think would both be much easier to understand/follow, and much easier to manage when dealing with multiple enemies, without being significantly more “powerful” in any way.

Clones dying when a target goes down can be used in conjunction with a couple of our traits though, like aoe cripple on kill, and random conditions on kill. Any death that is not a shatter counts as a “kill”, so in this way, we can at least make use of the silly logic they use.

Perhaps. Does replacing one clone with another clone count for those traits (as in you have three clones out and then summon a fourth, replacing one of the existing ones)? If so I’d prefer just using that method to trigger the effect than to let a whole posse of Phantasms die with the first of four enemies.

As for the tier system being broken – We’ll just have to disagree here. I’m actually of the opinion that, using your grading system, people who can only manage an F deserve to get their F. It wouldn’t be the school system or developer’s problem to make them feel better about themselves by ensuring they got at least bare minimum somehow.

And that’s a poor school system. The students are responsible for excelling, the teachers are responsible for adequacy.

I mean clearly I’m not saying that a player should only have to “push X to win” or anything so simple, but I mean, if I can get a Thief to 80, get world completion, run several different dungeon paths and all the Fractal paths, get a few other characters to 80, and get every class up to at least 25 or higher (and of those the Warrior is furthest behind), then while I’m by no means the best player on the server, I’m also far from the worst, right? And yet I struggle with the Mesmer. I should not be struggling with the Mesmer. I shouldn’t automatically be as good with the Mesmer as some of the best players, but I should at least be as good with my Mesmer as I am with my Necro or Ele.

By having baseline player skills and knowledge of the game, I should be having a “C” experience while playing a Mesmer, but I feel like I’m getting a “D” at best so far. I feel that this is the fault of the game. Even IF more effort on my part can make for a more pleasant experience, and I fully agree that this seems to be the case, I feel that it’s the responsibility of the game that I shouldn’t have to for reaching a “C” experience, and then that’s where my responsibility begins to reaching a B or A experience.

I fully agree that it’s the player’s responsibility to be “dungeon worthy” and beyond, I haven’t even started on dungeons with the Mesmer and wouldn’t even try until I felt comfortable with the character in solo PvE.

They won’t rework our weapon skills to make them better at lower levels. And they most certainly won’t change the traits around to make them more available at mid tier. Only one mesmer weapon trait is available at the lower tiers and that is blade training in dueling. If you look elsewhere mesmer is one of the most whined about classes and are always called OP. I am just glad that this forum is highlighting some weaknesses and maybe we will get some buffs. At 80 we are amazing… but I doubt we will get any of these buffs that people want here. It seems like when ANet sees mesmer they just think Hmmm…
“NERF!”
“But that skill is working fine!”
“I don’t care its a mesmer skill nerf it!”

Just a thought. And maybe reason’s like this is why all level 80 mesmers defend their class so vehemently.

Ohoni.6057:

Perhaps. Does replacing one clone with another clone count for those traits (as in you have three clones out and then summon a fourth, replacing one of the existing ones)? If so I’d prefer just using that method to trigger the effect than to let a whole posse of Phantasms die with the first of four enemies.

Yes. Anything that isn’t shattering counts as death – This includes overwriting them with newly spawned illusions.

As for adequacy, I feel it’s more of a style thing that may be giving you in particular trouble. For example, my first character (my main, and to this day my favorite profession) was a Mesmer. I really took to it’s mechanics and enjoyed the way it played, so you could say I had an affinity towards the specific style of Mesmer.

That probably helped me more than actually knowing the mechanics of the game did, considering I was a newbie at the time. It made me enjoy the profession as I muddled through it and got better.

If you’re moderately succeeding, but not enjoying it, then it’s probably an incompatibility with your preferences. Like how a tank would feel odd playing a healer, or a DPS would panic playing a tank because suddenly they have no damage and all the aggro.

If you’re not succeeding at it, or enjoying it, then the profession may simply not be for you. There isn’t much to say in this regard, because the developers can’t really tailor every profession to appeal and be enjoyable to everyone.

As I dislike hastily labeling things as l2p issues, and you’ve proven/claimed/asserted that you are successful and do enjoy other professions, I can assume that in your case in particular it’s less a case of bad skills, and simply an ill fit.

For example:

Elementalists and Warriors. A player who mains an Elementalist will often complain that warrior skills are too simplistic and limited in their application. They sometimes struggle to survive at first, and once succeeding, they don’t enjoy the experience because it feels lacking or limited. They may become passable, but will never really understand the potential of the profession.

The reverse is also true for a Warrior who plays an Elementalist – They often find elementalist skills to be too micromanaging, far too many skills to keep up, too many actions needing to be chained together, they don’t quite have a grasp on the finesse of combos that make Elementalists strong. They may become passable, but will often not enjoy the experience anyway.

Mesmer starts slow, but has a great deal of potential as it begins picking up momentum. It’s a diverse and utility based profession, which often confuses people new to the profession – What the OP, and perhaps you as well, consider to be “sucky” or “ill designed” weapons, others consider to be exceptional and immensely useful.

As much as failure and success can be determined by skill in something, personal preferences and capability to utilize specific gameplay styles will often contribute to both whether you enjoy the experience, and if you succeed.

Before assuming a profession is broken, or needs retuning, perhaps consider that it’s just not something that suits you as a player? This isn’t to say Mesmer is perfect and doesn’t need adjusting, like all other professions, but it is something to consider.

It has nothing to do with the playstyle. I can adapt to any class as needed to play them effectively. The problem is how specific a mesmer build must be in order for them to become effective. It doesn’t help that their weapon skills are unpolished and that they rely heavily on trait effects.

Some people in here may think that their mesmer build is perfectly fine when in reality it’s terrible. The same can be said about any profession but I think it holds true especially for mesmers.

They won’t rework our weapon skills to make them better at lower levels. And they most certainly won’t change the traits around to make them more available at mid tier. Only one mesmer weapon trait is available at the lower tiers and that is blade training in dueling. If you look elsewhere mesmer is one of the most whined about classes and are always called OP. I am just glad that this forum is highlighting some weaknesses and maybe we will get some buffs. At 80 we are amazing… but I doubt we will get any of these buffs that people want here. It seems like when ANet sees mesmer they just think Hmmm…

There’s got to be a way to shift things down a bit. Maybe make a portion of certain specific buffs that are currently in traits a natural part of the weapons default attacks, which are then further buffed by the traits if you go that route, enough that it makes them stronger at low levels, but aren’t worth caring about at higher levels (because either you’d trait into that area anyways, or wouldn’t be using that weapon to do more powerful trait-enhanced moves instead).

Like maybe if there’s some sort of cooldown buff in the Master traits, give half of it to the weapon by default, while removing some secondary function the ability has that may not even be necessary early on, and then later, when you would normally earn the trait, it now adds the rest of the original cooldown as well as restoring that basic function. They’ve done this sort of thing before for other classes.

If you’re moderately succeeding, but not enjoying it, then it’s probably an incompatibility with your preferences. Like how a tank would feel odd playing a healer, or a DPS would panic playing a tank because suddenly they have no damage and all the aggro.

Well, I kind of want to enjoy it, the style really doesn’t conflict with how I enjoy playing, I just get frustrated that I can’t take on as many enemies as I could with other classes. I mean, my Necro is level 53, and I was doing the Hylek village event in Bloodtide solo, and could easily handle 5-7 Risen at once (well, not “easily,” but I did beat them without dying). Then I was playing my level 25 Warrior for a bit, and could just lay waste to massive hordes without even breaking a sweat, so clearly there’s something wrong with that class, but then I play my level 35-40 Mesmer and am running around in Showden Drifts to catch up on my story segments, a level 24-ish area, and I’m having no trouble with single enemies, but am really struggling to deal with more than 2-3 at a time. I die in encounters that would have left any of my other characters with 50% HP or more.

Or I do events with lots of people and have difficulty dealing enough damage to get any kill credit before they die, even though I’m ten levels above the area and I’ve never had that problem on any other character outside of Orr. I like the style well enough, I just don’t feel nearly as effective as I should.

Elementalists and Warriors. A player who mains an Elementalist will often complain that warrior skills are too simplistic and limited in their application. They sometimes struggle to survive at first, and once succeeding, they don’t enjoy the experience because it feels lacking or limited. They may become passable, but will never really understand the potential of the profession.

Man, as someone with a level 80 Ele and a level 25 Warrior, I can’t imagine anyone “struggling” with a Warrior. They only have one instruction, “Point to front.” I could see people getting a tad bored with one, but nobody should actually find them difficult.

Mesmer starts slow, but has a great deal of potential as it begins picking up momentum. It’s a diverse and utility based profession, which often confuses people new to the profession – What the OP, and perhaps you as well, consider to be “sucky” or “ill designed” weapons, others consider to be exceptional and immensely useful.

Are they though? It sounds as if even the Mesmer evangelists, if reading between the lines, are saying “yeah, the weapons are sucky, but if you trait them the right way, then they become great.” Ok, fair enough, but with any other class, there are at least a few weapons that don’t require trait overhauls to be useful. Sure, if you want to be optimal at level 80 you’ll need the right traits to do it, but at level 20 you won’t need level 40+ traits to be viable using basic weapon attacks. Thieves are very trait-heavy too, they can be kind of annoying at the very lowest levels, but they get going a lot faster.

Couldn’t you agree that maybe Mesmers could be improved by making some shifts that would leave level 80 Mesmers largely unchanged, but would make lower level Mesmers much more viable? Or do you just like having fewer players that make it to the top so that Mesmers are in higher demand?

Then please push for our weapons to be fixed! Beg the devs to make the attack speed faster on the scepter and staff. Remove the spacing requirements on the greatswords make mind stab on target instead. For the love of god can we actually have a consistent illusionary leap! Make the iWarden able to follow the targets after its first attack or if it is truly meant as defensive make it spawn on us and not the target! These are all things that mesmer players want fixed. But they are not breaking us as bad as you would think. I would love for our weapon skills to be consistent across the board. But we just wanted to point out the weapons still have plus sides.