Guild Wars 2

1. Mob tagging in DE’s is a known issues most Mesmers have. Anet doesn’t seem especially keen on trying to help us in that regard – And, you may have noticed, most Mesmers have a deeply seated distrust for Anet even touching the profession, because of the frequency of nerfs. (All but two, maybe three patches since launch have contained Mesmer nerfs), so we’re stuck between wanting them to fix it, and worrying that their idea of fixing Mesmer would be making it worse.

2. I don’t really have problems with large groups. If you’re familiar with the massive dredge zerg in the Rasolov path of SE, then you may have context for when I say that I really enjoy it. Handling big crowds as a Mesmer for me, personally, is a snap – On the contrary, I feel like my talents are wasted on singular mobs.

3. When I said ele would struggle with warrior, I was referring to the boredom. But on the same note, they likely won’t be able to use warrior as effectively because it’s too simple for them.

4. Our weapons purposes changes drastically based on traits. This is something I actually like, because any one weapon can have a variety of ways for it to be utilized based on how you build yourself. The fact our profession can change so immensely depending on traits alone is something I greatly enjoy, but your mileage may vary.

5. I’m not particularly in favor of, or against, changing low level Mesmers to be easier to pick up and use. Most people with Mesmer will tell you the low level Mesmer is suffering, and at this point I think back on it nostalgically, and feel like that suffering really made the end-game Mesmer worth it. Or rather, the end-game Mesmer was worth the suffering. I am aware other people may not share this sentiment, so I have no real objection to them making low level mesmer more friendly – But at the same time, I have no interest in changing it, personally.

So while I wouldn’t object to them being adjusted at lower levels, I doubt it will happen and I also wouldn’t necessarily support it. I’m neutral in that regard.

andbetweenyouandmeIreallylikegoodmesmersbeinginhighdemand

>_>

<_<

Mesmers have a harder time with mobs because they’re very single-target and have to exert more effort for AoE than, say, a Necro. It’s one of those things that really will just boil down to you picking up skill.

And the thing about the trait-reliance is that it’s for the sake of our mechanics, not our weapons—really, the only traits that directly benefit them are cooldown reductions which are staple to builds across professions and more a general fault of their need in order to keep up with the speed of combat. Everyone sites 40+ largely for Deceptive Evasion as a game-changer for shattering (and to a lesser extent that’s when you can grab Sharper Images), but we have utilities for clone generation well before that if you’re going to shatter, and benefits for phantasms/more stats are in easy accumulation at around 20-30, which I’d say is where the Mesmer can very easily cease struggling—that’s thereabouts where I did, and where my thief picked up speed as well.

I hardly want to discourage new players or keep Mesmers less and “in high demand” but I think it’s a misidentification of where our difficulty lies to say it’s in the strength of our weapons, especially when the main determinate is their direct damage and their utility is completely overlooked.

Our weapons are underpowered because we’re balanced around using our Mirror images instead of the weapon skills. I mean, the Staff is by far one of the slowest attacking weapons I’ve used so far in game. The Scepter is eh, but the Greatsword is very fun, but really limited defensive wise.

Really what’s killing me on this class is you only have one speed boost and it’s on such a long cooldown. My Guardian has a 12s Swiftness every 15s skill with the Staff and my Thief moves around like a cheetah with Speed Signet and Shortbow. In WvW you basically have to surrender either the Staff or Greatsword for a one-hander with focus offhand.

Ironically, my favorite Mesmer weapon is the trident.

1. Mob tagging in DE’s is a known issues most Mesmers have. Anet doesn’t seem especially keen on trying to help us in that regard – And, you may have noticed, most Mesmers have a deeply seated distrust for Anet even touching the profession, because of the frequency of nerfs. (All but two, maybe three patches since launch have contained Mesmer nerfs), so we’re stuck between wanting them to fix it, and worrying that their idea of fixing Mesmer would be making it worse.

It is a bummer when you get a set of nerfs without any offsetting buffs, and I do think that’s bad form, but I would still have to trust that Anet will continue to work to make the overall game better (and you have to admit that the portal nerfs were essential, those things can be way to easily exploited).

2. I don’t really have problems with large groups. If you’re familiar with the massive dredge zerg in the Rasolov path of SE, then you may have context for when I say that I really enjoy it. Handling big crowds as a Mesmer for me, personally, is a snap – On the contrary, I feel like my talents are wasted on singular mobs.

What do you do to deal with the problem of mob A dying and taking all his associated illusions with him? Do you deliberately target and place illusions on multiple different mobs? Dump them on one mob and then ignore him and focus direct attacks on another? Just not worry about it and keep recasting illusions as they deplete?

But at the same time, I have no interest in changing it, personally.

Well, I don’t see why you would, you’re never likely to experience it again. The point is to make the class friendlier to new players of the class, so that they won’t burn out before they get to the interesting bits. Existing level 80s really wouldn’t be the “target audience” of any changes, so long as they didn’t result in any nerfs to the existing level 80 playstyles.

And the thing about the trait-reliance is that it’s for the sake of our mechanics, not our weapons

Well, even if a trait doesn’t directly say “reduces cooldown on staffs” or something, it would still benefit a weapon if it enhanced an effect the weapon often generates. The problem with the weapons is that the default effects they generate don’t seem worth using, they are all very lackluster in and of themselves, but by applying mid-tier traits they apparently become useful. The goal would be to make them worth using without traiting, and then, if you like, you could trait them to do something else too.

I hardly want to discourage new players or keep Mesmers less and “in high demand” but I think it’s a misidentification of where our difficulty lies to say it’s in the strength of our weapons, especially when the main determinate is their direct damage and their utility is completely overlooked.

What about this though, “utility” is practically worthless at low levels. I mean, you aren’t running dungeons, nothing requires too much cleverness to tackle, DPS and survivability are far more important down there. It’d be interesting if they could tie a lot of the more utility effects of the attacks to higher tier traits, while the raw DPs were added to the default build.

Ohoni.6057:

Well, even if a trait doesn’t directly say “reduces cooldown on staffs” or something, it would still benefit a weapon if it enhanced an effect the weapon often generates. The problem with the weapons is that the default effects they generate don’t seem worth using, they are all very lackluster in and of themselves, but by applying mid-tier traits they apparently become useful. The goal would be to make them worth using without traiting, and then, if you like, you could trait them to do something else too.

All of the traits related to interrupts really aren’t game changers and are not going to make your weapon “worth it” unless you’re building around interrupts as a whole. Dazzling doesn’t work with either Counter Blade or if it procs on Chaos Storm. Blurred Frenzy isn’t a distortion and hasn’t ever worked with those traits, so that’s another weapon buff out. I will grant The Prestige sees a really substantial boost in power from the buffed Prismatic Understanding.

I guess you could consider clones/phantasms as part of the weapons, but there are a lot of traits related to those that you can get down in the adept tier—if you build around illusions, you can easily have 2-3 traits you need to strengthen them by 30. And they’re tricky because how you’re going to use them and strengthen them will vary widely depending on the kind of build you’re using. I was counting them more as a mechanic for that reason.

What about this though, “utility” is practically worthless at low levels. I mean, you aren’t running dungeons, nothing requires too much cleverness to tackle, DPS and survivability are far more important down there. It’d be interesting if they could tie a lot of the more utility effects of the attacks to higher tier traits, while the raw DPs were added to the default build.

I disagree. Being able to control and evade damage (phase retreat, blurred frenzy, illusionary wave), having defensive capabilities, etc are useful at all all levels for survivability especially, especially if you don’t have the damage output to wipe the floor with everything before it can kill you. Most of the combat in upper level zones and dungeons is not really different from the combat in the lower levels. If that’s “useless” it’s only because someone just coming into the game won’t be familiar enough to use them until they get a hang of the combat—which, in my opinion, is just a higher learning curve and I don’t consider it disbalanced that some are harder to get the hang of than others as long as it’s a case of how the mechanics work rather than working against the system. In my opinion, the Mesmer as it is is definitely the former.

What do you do to deal with the problem of mob A dying and taking all his associated illusions with him? Do you deliberately target and place illusions on multiple different mobs? Dump them on one mob and then ignore him and focus direct attacks on another? Just not worry about it and keep recasting illusions as they deplete?

And while this wasn’t directed at me, I feel I can give some insight. I do deliberate plant phantasms on multiple targets while I weave around and start tearing them down. In the case of mobs with a larger threat, I’ll put illusions on the biggest danger while I whittle down the mob around it until I can get it by itself. I use staff and swords, but I know greatsword is popular for multiple targets as well because of iBezerker/having the best multi-target capability outside of melee.

I’ve not played a shatter build very extensively, but I believe clumping the mob and aiming clones towards the middle is usually how they try to get the biggest bang for their buck.

And while this wasn’t directed at me, I feel I can give some insight. I do deliberate plant phantasms on multiple targets while I weave around and start tearing them down. In the case of mobs with a larger threat, I’ll put illusions on the biggest danger while I whittle down the mob around it until I can get it by itself. I use staff and swords, but I know greatsword is popular for multiple targets as well because of iBezerker/having the best multi-target capability outside of melee.

I’ve not played a shatter build very extensively, but I believe clumping the mob and aiming clones towards the middle is usually how they try to get the biggest bang for their buck.

Interesting ideas, thanks. I’m not really used to dealing with less than all of the mobs in a group at once, which might be my problem with my Mesmer.

Similar to Athuria, I target the biggest threat with my clones. since their shatter is AoE, I can focus on planting phantasms and such on it – if the biggest threat dies, my phantasms/clones go with him. I’m okay with that. But as long as he’s not dead, they’re up until I shatter them.

And when I shatter them, they hurt him, usually hurting the mobs around him. Also, things like iWarden and iZerker deal with those passively as well.

So my strategy for dealing with groups is essentially to figure out a danger priority list, then dismantle it from the top. Everything under the priority of my current target can be taken down indirectly from the shatters I am at said current target.

I love the focus, it got so much freaking utility it not even freaking funny….

If anything the focus could be consider OP….

Ohoni, one issue I think most people have with learning the mesmer is that this profession is like no other class from any game. Thus there is a learning curve that doesn’t exist with the other professions.

Second, people need to quit thinking of the phantasms as anything other than a DoT. That is what they are, they are damage over time, but instead of using condition removal to get rid of them, they need to be damaged. Phantasms are simply spells.

Also you compare the AoE to that of one of the best AoE classes. Between Wells, Marks from the Staff, Axe #3, Dagger #5, and the ultimate AoE Epidemic it is not really fair to compare necro AoE to any other class.

As to our core mechanic, learning to use shatters properly and how to time them, that is the key to ease of leveling. Also this is the most proactive profession, you must constantly be juggling targets in order to dominate large groups. That is a playstyle, some people want to play a fire and forget it profession, while others need things to keep them active at all times.

I struggled with the mesmer back when the game launched, but like you I was resisting the core mechanic. I too wanted to keep my phantasms up. But once I decided to learn the mechanic and how to make it really work, it became super easy. I just finished leveling my mesmer 1-80 in a months time. I did struggle with large groups from time to time, but only when I would fall back into bad habits. Also, I am skill wise a below average player in every sense of the word. My eye hand coordination is not the best and I tend to get tunnel vision. But in order to play the mesmer correctly and efficiently, I had to break those tendencies and really focus on retraining myself. This is just a different playstyle, but once you master the style, it is hard to go back. Those who tell you things get easier after level 40 aren’t lying, they just go from normal to ridiculously easy. Deceptive Evasion makes Champions into chumps basically. It may simply be that this play style is not something you want to adapt to, or like me it might be counter intuitive, but if you really want to succeed with your mesmer, you need to really look at how the profession is intended to be played.

As to you thinking it is bad design for ANet to design the professions to have different learning curves, well that is your opinion. I happen to disagree. I do know that this was intentional. Mesmer, Engineer, and Elementalist were meant to be a steeper learning curve, while Necro, Warrior and Thief were meant to be out of the box ready to go professions. This was mentioned several times during the build up to the release. This is intentional and not ever going away.

Naturally necro is better when it comes to aoe and necro is also a lot thougher, but then again necro doesn’t have for example stealth.
Anyway, it is true that some mesmer weapons have problems. Here are some that I find most annoying:

The sword #3 is very unreliable and works 50% time at best.
Torch #5 has 30seconds cool down and creates a phantasam thats barely better than a clone.
Scepter #1 is useless.
Scepter #2 gives just 1 block and cl-reducing traits do not work on it.
Scepter #3 is just way too slow, and has bad range as well.

I will grant The Prestige sees a really substantial boost in power from the buffed Prismatic Understanding.

Prestige does not benefit from Prismatic Understanding.

OP..Just go back to your Necro and leave the mesmer to the people that know how to play and enjoy their opness

Second, people need to quit thinking of the phantasms as anything other than a DoT. That is what they are, they are damage over time, but instead of using condition removal to get rid of them, they need to be damaged. Phantasms are simply spells.

There’s certainly some truth to that. The logical break that occurs for me with this is that a standard DoT has a fixed duration, if I apply a Bleed then it will last about ten seconds, and then it’s gone, fire and forget. If I drop a Phantasm, then it could last for minutes if the enemy ignores it, doing steady damage all the time. I mean, if I’m fighting an event boss, and it’s leaving my guys alone because other things are drawing agro, and I have two clones and a Warlock up, would I be better off shattering them all and re-summoning them, or by summoning a second Warlock?

They are like DoTs in a lot of ways, but they’re DoTs with faces.

Also you compare the AoE to that of one of the best AoE classes. Between Wells, Marks from the Staff, Axe #3, Dagger #5, and the ultimate AoE Epidemic it is not really fair to compare necro AoE to any other class.

Fair enough, but pretty much all the classes I play have better AoT options. My Thief can Deathblossom, Cluster Bomb, and Chokking Gas, not to mention Trick Shot. My GS Guardian’s every attack is either a PBAoE or cone AoE that deals solid damage. My DD Ele has tons of great PB and cone AoEs. Mesmers have AoE capabilities, but most in the form of unreliable bounces or pierce effects. In my opinion, when it comes to AoE damage, from best to worst possibilities it goes from auto-splash>ground target>PBAoE>cone>bounce>pierce. Now shatters are auto-splash, but they require burning up those DoTs that, left alone may do considerably more damage over their lifetime.

Mesmer, Engineer, and Elementalist were meant to be a steeper learning curve, while Necro, Warrior and Thief were meant to be out of the box ready to go professions.

I don’t know, I didn’t find Necro or Thief any easier to pick up than Ele or Engineer. All four were kind of tricky to get into at the very lowest levels, but all four of their curves had leveled out by at most 25, well short of the Mesmer’s 40+. If we’re talking easiest to master to hardest (not talking “best” or “strongest” once learned, just the easiest to get them to do whatever they do and do it as well as can be expected) then I think the classes would go Warrior>>>Guardian>Ranger>Engineer>Thief>Necro>Ele>Mesmer.

Naturally necro is better when it comes to aoe and necro is also a lot thougher, but then again necro doesn’t have for example stealth.

This is true, but then Mesmer stealth is fairly minimal anyways (especially if you’ve ever played a Thief), and Necros can use Death Shroud in many of the cases where Mesmer stealth would be helpful (solo, at least). Death Shroud alone trumps many of Mesmer’s biggest strengths in terms of solo utility. I think Mesmers kill Necros when it comes to utility in a group, having that Swiss Army kit of portals, reflectors, condition clears, tons of handy tricks, which is sort of like a Guardian or Thief in that respect, but even better, but they just seem to fall short in terms of solo capability.

Whether it’s better to shatter or keep your illusions up really is entirely dependent on which way you build yourself for. Our mechanics are kind of a blank slate that we customize to our liking, and both ways are effective but with very different playstyles.

Mesmers don’t have the stealth of a thief, true (and it is unfortunately buggy and a lot of it won’t stack properly), but we also carry many evasions, blocks, interrupts, and some damage reducers to mitigate damage—which, ultimately, is the game Mesmers play. We are more fragile than Guardians (edit: I guess Warrior would be more fitting, because Guardians play the damage mitigation game too in a different way) or Necromancers and we don’t have the mobility to escape in and out of combat like a Thief or Elementalist, so our survivability is mostly in preventing ourselves from getting hit in the first place, or at least lessening the blow.

But if I use my mouse to turn how do I click on rend?

Hammerguard.9834:

Greatsword: The phantasm is the only good damage that comes out of this weapon. Everything else including skill 1- at all ranges – does pathetic damage.

Staff: Decent damage but too defensive. Skill 2 forces player to port away and skill 1 projectile speed is too slow.

Scepter: Skill 1 attack rate is too slow and weak. Skill 2 and 3 are good. No AoE on this thing making it horrible for PvE. EDIT: Skill 3 cast startup is too long.

Sword: Forces player to get up close to do any damage. Skill 2 is too slow and the range is pathetic.

Sword off-hand: It’s just crap…

Torch: Skill 4 is good, skill 5 is trash.

Pistol: Decent damage to single target…

Focus: Skill 4 is only good for PvP and skill 5 is only good for PvE. It’s a horrible weapon. I feel the only reason people use it is for the swiftness because that’s the only mobility mesmers have besides blink. Mesmers who don’t want to use focus – I don’t blame them – are forced to get rune of the centaur.

I think mesmers need some serious changes to their weapons.

I see you have stuck around for the discussion hammer. I respect that.

Just a touch of background. I played mostly a necro in bwe3. My first toon live was a mesmer and she hit 80 before any other breached 20. Next I leveled an ele to 80, then a ranger, now I have a guardian to 53.

I became frustrated with mesmer in the 11-19 level range. Looking back it is obvious to me what my problem was…I did not bounce around through different weapons. The day I learned to use the sword mh effectively was the day the mesmer started making sense.

There is much on this forum about mesmer being tied to traits. In a way this applies to all classes, but I do not see it as being an exceptional truth for mesmers. Rarely do I put more than 20 points in any trait line…this I cannot say about any other class I play.

Starting as a mesmer, I had to learn the mechanics of combat quickly to avoid death. Combo fields, dodges, buffs, debuffs…all matter greatly. Many classes can get by without this information. Does it make mesmer weak? I prefer to think it makes the player strong as he is forced to learn the game mechanics quickly.

Fast forward to toon #2…elementalist. While they force 2 times the weapon skills on you as compared to most classes, a strong understanding of combo fields makes this class a walk in the park. Without that understanding they can get by, but would mostly be viewed as a glass cannon dps. Why would I even bother using more than just dagger/dagger…oh I know, I can learn staff for a different playstyle…wait I have other weapon options…ehh…I stick with what I got.

Now ranger…what is a combo field any way?

Guardian…soo many instant cast abilities available at all times, spam your buttons and cool things happen.

I contest that the mesmer/ele design are far superior to the ranger guardian. Learn how the game works, learn quickly and succeed. Learn slowly and be held back in levels for a time.

Anywho…back on topic…mesmer weapons from my perspective:

Greatsword: this is our long range AOE and kiting weapon, it does decent damage

Staff: most effective as a mid/close range weapon. The defensive nature of the abilities can be deceiving as it is most effective by laying out combos/fields, while bouncing buffs back onto yourself, to be utilized by a melee off weapon set. Wind up with staff, swing with melee.

Scepter: never got the hang of this weapon, I just do not like it.

MH sword: incredible defensive capability in #2 once you get good at timing. Good cc with #3, boon striping with #1, great damage with #2…overall great weapon

OH sword: interesting option. I like to use it against glass cannons and watch them melt. In pve it does not get much use from me as I use many other option for defence, but it can be pretty sweet. CC and defence rolled into 1 button with a decent damaging phantasm to boot.

Torch: 2 blast finishers (our only access to blast finishers mind you), burning and stealth while being able to remain mobile with 1 button push…trash is far from how I would describe this weapon. And then there is a phantasm….

Pistol: not my cup of tea, but if you are trying to be a dps ranged kind of guy this thing hits like a truck. #5 chain cc including a stun ftw

Focus: imo greatest off hand weapon in this game. #4 is a speed boost with unlimited recipients, an unlimited cripple, grants retailion (aoe retaliation if somone thinks to use a blast finisher), an aoe knock down, an aoe interrupt, and an aoe pull. #5 does decent aoe damage from long range, blocks projectiles, reflects projectiles, is a phantasm subject to buffing via traits or use kittenter fodder for damage, condition application, healing, defence. Greatest 2 button weapon ever!!!!

Maybe because mesmers have (by far) the best profession mechanic in the game? The devs probably scaled down their weapons to somewhat compensate, to tell the truth, with Mesmer auto-attacks I think they could have taken it a little farther.

Ayanavi.1904:

“Out of the box”, Mesmer is wholly underwhelming, and at times can be confusing

I see what you did there…

;)

ComeAndSee.1356:

<snip>

Ironically, my favorite Mesmer weapon is the trident.

Funnily enough I prefer both underwater weapons on the mesmer – the spear and trident, to anything they have on land.

Spear 1 has that lovely evasion, 2 and 4 make you faster underwater than on land, 3 is a decent phantasm, and 5 is incredibly powerful.
Every power on the Trident is also great.

I suppose it makes up for some of our utilities being useless underwater. If I could use the spear on land that would be amazing.

It’s one of the few classes I actually enjoy underwater combat with. The thief for example is extremely boring underwater.

I am curious to know how best to use abilities against large packs though, since most of their abilities seem single target, maybe with a bounce

Obviously not using enough GS + iBerserker + Mind Wrack // swap to Staff Chaos Storm condition tanking.

jportell.2197:

make mind stab on target instead

i swear there’s an option somewhere that makes this happen, and has been since launch. look for something like “aoe effects on target”

of course, it’s been a couple months since i played…lots of work and a freshly fixed computer, and i’m about to hop back in within the next couple days, so it’s possible they’ve changed/removed it while i’ve been gone, but….check

^

The option is for the ground-targeted AOEs to automatically select your current mouse position, rather than wait for you to click the spot on the ground. It does not cast AOEs on your target.

I just started a mesmer a few days ago, after being reluctant to start one because people said they were too difficult to play. I just got her to 30 and I am having more fun with this mesmer than the guardian and ranger I’ve dinked around with.

I haven’t done any PVP or WvW with her, just standard leveling PVE. I use a staff and sword/focus right now. It works just fine. I don’t feel under powered although it took some time to figure out when and how to use certain things to good effect.

I have a lot yet to learn about mesmer, but it’s a really interesting class. I’m beginning to get the idea that his class can really, really good at later levels if the player takes the time to learn all the nuances. I’m having a lot of fun with her and will probably take her to 80. Mesmer is definitely keeping my interest up. Never a dull moment.

To me it seems like WvW sometimes is nothing but Mesmers and thieves. I’m not sure the Devs are going to line up to improve a class that everyone is playing :P

WvW? Way more d/d ele’s than mesmers straight out… There are some guilds that run nothing but d/d bunker ele’s and d/d backstab thieves. LOL.

Welcome to GW2, where only melee can do strong damage.

Hammerguard.9834:

Staff: Decent damage but too defensive. Skill 2 forces player to port away and skill 1 projectile speed is too slow.

I use this as my secondary weapon, and purely as a defensive weapon. Kiting is made made easy with skill 2, skill 5 in conjunction with skill 2 gives you a chaos armor ON TOP of skill 4. And chaos armor can be really useful. If you can time skill 3 right, you can get some good damage. This weapon gives the mesmer incredible mobility, even though getting used to the teleport took a good minute lol. And as for the auto-attack travelling too slowly, it hasn’t been an issue for me, especially since I don’t use the weapon as my primary damamge dealer.

Hammerguard.9834:

Sword: Forces player to get up close to do any damage. Skill 2 is too slow and the range is pathetic.

It’s the mesmer’s only melee option, and it’s actually pretty OP. Skill 2 grants you blur for 2 seconds. Timing that properly with a three-clone f4 pop, PLUS the option of having your signets grant distortion and the traits that make distortion even more OP. Again, proper timing can result in decent damage to your target, while taking none yourself. I primarily use the sword/focus combo. Yes skill 2 has a minuscule range, but is awesomely OP. and skill 3 is awesome for SO many reasons. You can immediately jump in, you can use that clone to pop your f3 and then jump in, wait for the daze to subside and pop your skill 2. Plus in PvE and WvW, the skill 3 is a great way to force players to dodge [as they want to avoid you immediately jumping in.] When anet says that mesmers are the masters of illusion and confusion, it doesn’t just mean in-game. The wilier you are, the more psyched out your opponent will become, and their decision-making will be compromised.

Hammerguard.9834:

Focus: Skill 4 is only good for PvP and skill 5 is only good for PvE. It’s a horrible weapon. I feel the only reason people use it is for the swiftness because that’s the only mobility mesmers have besides blink. Mesmers who don’t want to use focus – I don’t blame them – are forced to get rune of the centaur.

Skill 4 is AWESOME in PvE. Kiting 101: drop your skill 4, run through it, wait for your taget[s] to pass through it, toss em backwards, possibly with in added interrupt! [still not worth spec-ing your traits for interrupt bonuses though…] With sword or swapping to staff, you can kite like a MAD fool.

Hammerguard.9834:

I think mesmers need some serious changes to their weapons.

I think you need to spend more time playing your mesmer and finding all the amazing things that you can do with them! A GOOD mesmer has nothing to fear but a better mesmer. Don’t give up, though! Mesmers have the most rewarding play in the game. As you figure out more ways to trip out your enemies, the funner it gets!!

Hammerguard.9834:

I had to come up with something that could pull off decent damage without using a sword. Let me tell you, it’s not easy.

Sword is anything from bad, though.
Sword #1 is debatable (very slow), but #2 has a 20% invulnerability uptime, #3 is a cripple/root which … well… works. Unless uphill. :P
And #4 is one of the highest basedamage attacks a Mesmer has against a single target (shared with Scepter #2), plus a line interrupt (very handy in PvE). #5 outdamages most Phantasms against single targets plus it stays out of nasty AEs quite well.

It’s rather the Scepter which is problematic, mostly because the Sword is so good. At least the offhands are closer together, because while OH Sword is very powerful, Focus and Torch have their unique selling points and Pistol is close to Sword while still being meaningfully different.

Ohoni.6057:

And while this wasn’t directed at me, I feel I can give some insight. I do deliberate plant phantasms on multiple targets while I weave around and start tearing them down. In the case of mobs with a larger threat, I’ll put illusions on the biggest danger while I whittle down the mob around it until I can get it by itself. I use staff and swords, but I know greatsword is popular for multiple targets as well because of iBezerker/having the best multi-target capability outside of melee.

I’ve not played a shatter build very extensively, but I believe clumping the mob and aiming clones towards the middle is usually how they try to get the biggest bang for their buck.

Interesting ideas, thanks. I’m not really used to dealing with less than all of the mobs in a group at once, which might be my problem with my Mesmer.

Sorry in advance, im a few days late to the party so but i feel that i have to share my experience on this. If for nothing else to help other new mesmers.

I read through your posts and i get where you are coming from, other classes are way more intuitive, and their main prowess comes from weapon skills. You look at the skills, know what they’ll do and use them intuitively. This isnt the case for the mesmer, and it makes them inherently weaker than any other class till you learn the ropes. The main strength of the mesmer comes indeed from traits and skill combos, that are not inherently obvious and the class as a whole takes a lot more insight to make it work “properly”.

Lets take a cookie cutter shatter build for instance.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgUQNAsdWlwzip3UzqGa9ICqHaH29dkUoatWJF42FC
Or something like that. I use Sword/Focus & Staff, mostly.

Intuitively you would ramp up 2 clones, add some phantasm and rinse and repeat till the mob is dead. Maybe throw in a shatter or two.

Effectively, you get a bunch of mobs, then do the following.
Chaos Storm → iWarlock →Phase Retreat → Dodge back in the AoE → f1 → mirror immages (dodge if you can) → f2 → chaos armor → if anything still lives weapon swap → iwarden → x→ blurred frenzy….. rinse and repeat.
This made you do two shatters with high damage, landed 8+ stacks of confusion (any mob that uses a skill will take 1k+ damage), some 10 stacks of bleeds all while beeing protected by chaos armor for 100% of the time (phase retreat in etheral field ie. chaos storm) and in general beeing invulnerable for a large portion of the combo (dodge and blurred frenzy). The “x” in here is that if you face condition heavy foes, you would put temporal curtain on the iwarden, cleansing you. If there are foes that use projectiles you’d put up feedback, reflecting both projectiles AND making your iWarden apply confusion with his attacks.

Thats a huge wall of text for whats happening, while it takes part in less than 15 seconds. And the best part is, that you lose zero utility with this. You can easily gear for a strong mantra build like this, or an equally strong phantasm build. Leap (sword 2) will apply chaos armor in any ethereal field yet again (of which you have 2 off-staff), time warp +iwarden +2 sword clones will easily apply 15 stacks of bleeds + confusion and so on. And thats not even touching the rest of the arsenal.

I get that when you first use your weapons they feel incredibly weak, or that you feel that your clones/phantasms should have more uptime but in reality keeping, for instance, the i-warden up for its second barrage would be what you want to do, but its by no means the most effective way to handle the class. Truly, after playing my mesmer for a while, every other class feels so incredibly slow paced and limited, ironically thats the way you seem to be feeling about the mesmer.

I hope that helped, or at least other players that feel they are doing something wrong with the mesmer.