Guild Wars 2

Cry of Frustration is junk. Its damage is far less than Mind Wrack and its cooldown greater. Diversion does 1 seconds of daze no matter how many clones you have out, is impossible to time correctly to interrupt anything important, and is likely to fail due to illusion death. Distortion is the only shatter that’s decent.

Mind Wrack is ok, but is right now the way to use Mind Wrack with 100% efficiency is as follows:

1. If you have no phantasms, Mind Wrack.
2. If your target or your last phantasm is about to die, Mind Wrack.
3. Never Mind Wrack in any other circumstance.

That’s literally all there is to it. The fact that a single Phantasm attack out-damages a 3-clone mind wrack makes mind wracking extremely low priority. Apart from Distortion, Shattering is just a boring mechanical task devoid of any strategy. This is not what we need for a class mechanic. Please give us shatters worth using and make Mind Wrack into something that’s not so predictable and one-dimensional.

Shatters are mostly situational anyways. And I actually find Cry of Frustration to be very useful against bosses with obvious skill use and on human players in WvW. Traited correctly that’s 6 Confusion applied to everyone within a small area. That’s pretty good damage.

Ritz.3619:

Shatters are mostly situational anyways. And I actually find Cry of Frustration to be very useful against bosses with obvious skill use and on human players in WvW. Traited correctly that’s 6 Confusion applied to everyone within a small area. That’s pretty good damage.

But Shatters are a part of the Mesmers game mechanic. It needs a lot of work, still. If 3 illusions are up, you expect them to do more damage combined.

I can remake clones like they’re nothing. I shatter occasionally to get a spike of damage and they’re VERY useful for AoE. In fact, I often lead with a Mind Wrack or a Cry of Frustration on enemies. I think they have their place, again, it’s all about timing and using your skills when they are needed. I don’t just cast Chaos Armor or Time Warp all willy-nilly.

Ritz.3619:

I can remake clones like they’re nothing. I shatter occasionally to get a spike of damage and they’re VERY useful for AoE. In fact, I often lead with a Mind Wrack or a Cry of Frustration on enemies. I think they have their place, again, it’s all about timing and using your skills when they are needed. I don’t just cast Chaos Armor or Time Warp all willy-nilly.

Yes clones can be remade quickly, but it’s still not worth shattering them because a SINGLE PHANTASM, say a Phantasmal Berseker, does more DPS on its own than constant 3-clone mind wracks every cooldown. That is simply WRONG, and leads to predictable and repetitive gameplay.

Actually, at max output, a single clone shattering does as much damage as a Phantasmal Berserker’s attack. Sure you don’t get the Cripple out of it but that fact of the matter is it does plenty more damage.

And to edit that last part, the Berserker often hits 3 times per attack (which means 3 times every 7 seconds) and that’s assuming all 3 hit. And it does not increase in damage per attack. With Mind Wrack, damage is multiplied for each clone AND damage increases with each clone. So it’s like adding then multiplying to the damage rather than just multiplying the damage. Mind Wrack does LOADS more damage with 3 clones than a Berserker.

Ritz.3619:

And to edit that last part, the Berserker often hits 3 times per attack (which means 3 times every 7 seconds) and that’s assuming all 3 hit. And it does not increase in damage per attack. With Mind Wrack, damage is multiplied for each clone AND damage increases with each clone. So it’s like adding then multiplying to the damage rather than just multiplying the damage. Mind Wrack does LOADS more damage with 3 clones than a Berserker.

That’s not true. Mind Wrack does LESS damage per clone, but more damage overall with a 3-clone mind wrack. The overall damage is already calculated on the tooltip.

Ah, my mistake :P

Even so, I still don’t see any problems with any of them. Even Diversion can be useful with Sword clones, though I understand the problems with ranged clones. This one is the only one I can see that needs fixing. Mind Wrack is a great AoE spike and Cry of Frustration is great in WvW against mobs of human players. I just think that they shouldn’t be thought of as skills that can be used to maximum effect ALL the time. They’re much more like utility skills.

It’s not like any of the other professions have strong F skills I would say our overpowered compared to ours. In fact, with turrets Engineers can only blow up 1 thing at a time with their F skills and it doesn’t even run at your target and Rangers only have commands for their pets. I would say we have it better than them in most cases.

My main is a Mesmer and I believe Mesmer is the most interesting profession and the only unique profession that represents Guild Wars as a MMORPG on the market.

The key point is that we need to do much more than the other profession to stay competitive. However I like it this way as I’m a very skilled player and I like to challenge myself, but I don’t think the rewards in choosing possibly the most skilled profession is there to encourage us. Hence we get to see many complaints about Mesmer, but some of them just don’t fully understand the mechanic of the profession. There is a steep learning curve for this profession and it takes precise timing, experience, reaction time and judgement to really make Mesmer shine and to be top tier challenger.

Personally I’ve won 1vs1 against every other profession in PvP but granted it was mostly due to the fact that I out-skilled the other player not because the profession itself is perfectly fine tuned. Currently I’ve 200+hours delved into this profession but if I was given this much time in another profession like a warrior, guardian or ranger for example, I’d killing things at twice the efficiency.

The play style of Mesmer is very unique and I quite like it. It’s all about out-skill your opponent and deception. There is never a dull moment in playing the Mesmer and you feel twice as much the accomplishment in a victory than another profession that deals rather direct damage. This also means we spend more effort and time in setting up combos and to get the job done. Casting illusions is slow and hinders your movement, except phase retreat for example. Illusions are finally cast you follow up with a series of appropriate skills that suits that particular situation. It may be a crowd control, or defensive tactic or going for more offensive.

Shatter or not to shatter is often the question I ask myself in every situation and every situation is different. It depends on how you build y our trait and how you like to do in combat. In a more difficult sustainable fight, you’ll want your illusions to stay as a distraction and rely on its “when destroyed” effects and in easier fights you’ll want to timed your illusion shatter when the opponents are less than 50% health for that final burst in damage or when your illusion is ready on its cool down for a next new set of illusions.

There is also pathing issue with the illusions that sometimes get stuck between your target and yourself. In that case it renders the shattering ability not as useful as it should be. In combats with real players, shattering almost never works on ranged profession unless they don’t understand a thing about what out illusions can do or just aren’t paying attention. Melee profession will have no choice to face the possible consequences of our illusions.

Ritz.3619:

Ah, my mistake :P

Even so, I still don’t see any problems with any of them. Even Diversion can be useful with Sword clones, though I understand the problems with ranged clones. This one is the only one I can see that needs fixing. Mind Wrack is a great AoE spike and Cry of Frustration is great in WvW against mobs of human players. I just think that they shouldn’t be thought of as skills that can be used to maximum effect ALL the time. They’re much more like utility skills.

How can you call it a “spike?” If you wait for your phantasm to attack again you get at least as much damage as the mind wrack, PLUS you keep your illusions, PLUS you get the chance for your phantasm to attack again. The only situation where it is good to use Mind Wrack for “spike” is if it will kill the target, which I explicitly mention in the OP in my rules for using Mind Wrack.

Please explain to me how Mind Wrack or Cry of Frustration could be “utility” skills, when they give you LESS overall damage in every situation except when the target’s about to die, or you have no phantasms? Where is the utility? You lose damage and what do you gain? The satisfaction of having pressed a button?

It’s not like any of the other professions have strong F skills I would say our overpowered compared to ours. In fact, with turrets Engineers can only blow up 1 thing at a time with their F skills and it doesn’t even run at your target and Rangers only have commands for their pets. I would say we have it better than them in most cases.

Other classes don’t have their class mechanic built into their weapon skills. We lose at least as much as we gain from having shatters as our class mechanic.

Mystiq Angelic.8193:

Shatter or not to shatter is often the question I ask myself in every situation and every situation is different. It depends on how you build y our trait and how you like to do in combat. In a more difficult sustainable fight, you’ll want your illusions to stay as a distraction and rely on its “when destroyed” effects and in easier fights you’ll want to timed your illusion shatter when the opponents are less than 50% health for that final burst in damage or when your illusion is ready on its cool down for a next new set of illusions.

Why do you shatter your illusions just because your cooldowns are up? If your phantasm gets even one more hit off you would’ve done more damage AND kept your illusions up AND had your cooldowns up, with the potential of getting two phantasms up simultaneously. What do you gain by shattering instead, and why is it so hard for you to decide?

I feel like shatter should break all clones but not destroy the phantasms while giving you an effect based on the total number of illusions. This would make them way more useful for ALL builds of mesmer while also meaning the phantasm reload in the illusions tree isn’t so heavily misplaced it’s unreal. It would also make it a lot more viable to quick fire off the various shatter’s meaning that the fact mind wrack is so much better than cry of frustration doesn’t matter.

Then make all shatter’s cast as an instant projectile (as opposed to having your illusions run at them) and based on your target.

Mindwrack: Deals damage to your target an all target’s around it, combine with phantasms not breaking would actually give us some really strong aoe.

Cry of frustration: Applies 3 stacks of confusion for each illusion.

Diversion: dazes your target for 1/2/3(4) seconds based on number of illusions you have out.

Malakree.5912:

I feel like shatter should break all clones but not destroy the phantasms while giving you an effect based on the total number of illusions. This would make them way more useful for ALL builds of mesmer while also meaning the phantasm reload in the illusions tree isn’t so heavily misplaced it’s unreal. It would also make it a lot more viable to quick fire off the various shatter’s meaning that the fact mind wrack is so much better than cry of frustration doesn’t matter.

Then make all shatter’s cast as an instant projectile (as opposed to having your illusions run at them) and based on your target.

Mindwrack: Deals damage to your target an all target’s around it, combine with phantasms not breaking would actually give us some really strong aoe.

Cry of frustration: Applies 3 stacks of confusion for each illusion.

Diversion: dazes your target for 1/2/3(4) seconds based on number of illusions you have out.

Change Illusionary Persona to do this if it’s deemed too powerful to be given to us base and I will be so freaking happy.

Diversion may need to stay as a clone crawl shatter though. Instant dazes flying at people in PvP with our current power may be a bit much.

If we do everything the above suggests we need to shift more damage into shatters though. We cannot keep our phantasms dealing such ridiculous numbers and gain a reliable AoE spike.

If you ask me, the Shatter skills aren’t meant to be spammed anyway. The mesmer gets its survivability because of its clones – Destroying them in the midst of a fight could turn out really silly, as it might mean you’ll go down real fast.

However when the enemy is near death already, sending your clones to explode makes all the more sense. Since if you don’t use a Mind Wrack or anything else, they’ll be destroyed anyway. And I believe that’s what the tactics are all about, and that’s what’ll set the “Good” players apart from the “Bad” players. The former will know how to stay hidden and alive much better than the latter who will spam his Shatter skills like his life depends on it.

If we do everything the above suggests we need to shift more damage into shatters though. We cannot keep our phantasms dealing such ridiculous numbers and gain a reliable AoE spike.

Actually you would shift damage AWAY from shatter’s and simply buff the shatter traits. Make the illusion tree actually have shatter talents in it all the way down. A good one would be to have that 4th shatter (from counting yourself) be a much more substantial increase than the previous three as this means your definitely 30 points in illusions.

As an example, change diversion so its daze duration is (.5/1/1.5/3 seconds). My build for example would struggle to get anywhere near that far down the tree without really hurting it or turning it into a 100% glass cannon build. It gives the option to go for a more shatter focused build.

Instant dazes flying at people in PvP with our current power may be a bit much.

Have the clones “shatter” then send the energy back to the mesmer and fire out after say 1 second. So no “cast time” per say but it’s not instant, much the same way mantras work (in terms of the way they cast rather than being instant).

EDIT:

If you ask me, the Shatter skills aren’t meant to be spammed anyway. The mesmer gets its survivability because of its clones – Destroying them in the midst of a fight could turn out really silly, as it might mean you’ll go down real fast.
However when the enemy is near death already, sending your clones to explode makes all the more sense. Since if you don’t use a Mind Wrack or anything else, they’ll be destroyed anyway. And I believe that’s what the tactics are all about, and that’s what’ll set the “Good” players apart from the “Bad” players. The former will know how to stay hidden and alive much better than the latter who will spam his Shatter skills like his life depends on it.

Then the really good players realize that atm you just shouldn’t use the shatter skills outside of solo PvE, if you shatter at any other time either its distortion because your pants are round your ankles and you NEED that 3seconds or you kitten up and pushed the wrong key.

I like the way shatter works. The only problems with it as I see aren’t the system itself, but issues in the system such as pathing. Even this can be solved by taking the trait that makes it so when you shatter, the shatter effect centers on yourself as well as the clones, thereby increasing the range and likelyhood that whatever it is you’re trying to do goes off.

I don’t mean to be insulting, but as others have pointed out, this class has a large skill curve if you want to be good. Anyone can pick it up and have a good time, but if you want to be effective, you have work harder at it than some of the other classes.

The last thing I want to see is Anet tuning things in a direction that make this class super easy to master.

Malakree.5912:

Then the really good players realize that atm you just shouldn’t use the shatter skills outside of solo PvE, if you shatter at any other time either its distortion because your pants are round your ankles and you NEED that 3seconds or you kitten up and pushed the wrong key.

Eh? There’s plenty of uses for them in sPvP and WvW. It’s not like you’ll be fighting zerg vs. zerg constantly. And even if you were, the occasional shatter does good AoE damage and could greatly benefit your team if you place it well enough.

I like how you kitten things up though. Meeeow!

The problem is that as it stands most of the really powerful mesmer builds are crippled when you use a shatter just because it breaks your phantasms. Unless you turn yourself into a one trick shatter pony your better off in 99% of situations just keeping the phantasms up and not using shatter even in that 1% situation your still probably better off airing on the side of caution in case any kitten hits the fan. For SPvP shatters are essentially not on the mesmer skill list and even in PvE they are kitten horrible.

EDIT:

Eh? There’s plenty of uses for them in sPvP and WvW. It’s not like you’ll be fighting zerg vs. zerg constantly. And even if you were, the occasional shatter does good AoE damage and could greatly benefit your team if you place it well enough.
I like how you kitten things up though. Meeeow!

When would you ever use them in SPvP….

Malakree.5912:

The problem is that as it stands most of the really powerful mesmer builds are crippled when you use a shatter just because it breaks your phantasms. Unless you turn yourself into a one trick shatter pony your better off in 99% of situations just keeping the phantasms up and not using shatter even in that 1% situation your still probably better off airing on the side of caution in case any kitten hits the fan. For SPvP shatters are essentially not on the mesmer skill list and even in PvE they are kitten horrible.

The way I see it, if you managed to make an effective build that does not require the use of shatter, then why are you complaining? It’s not like shattering the clones is completely useless, at the very least you can get a bit more damage toward the end of the mobs life if you mind wrack or whatever it is, or at the very least daze the target or even distort if you want to run in there and finish it off melee style on your own.

It’s not like you have to use every option available to you at any given time, the fact that weapon skills are static and you have to swap in and out should have given people that clue in the first place.

That being said, if you use your trait points smartly, it is possible to create a build where your illusions still do a lot of damage and your shatters are a lot more “useful” and by useful, I mean more damaging.

Strill.2591:

Yes clones can be remade quickly, but it’s still not worth shattering them because a SINGLE PHANTASM, say a Phantasmal Berseker, does more DPS on its own than constant 3-clone mind wracks every cooldown. That is simply WRONG, and leads to predictable and repetitive gameplay.

Yeah he does more damage. Especially once the AEs killed him.

Oh sorry, not what you wanted to hear, I know. :P

Yeah he does more damage. Especially once the AEs killed him.
Oh sorry, not what you wanted to hear, I know. :P

Congratulations on summing up why the greatsword is a weak weapon.

As it stands now if I ever choose to shatter my clones here’s my spread:
94% F1 (damage)
1% F2 (confusion)
0.0000001 F3 (daze)
F4 5% (invuln).

Damage hitting eventually > X secs complete invulnerability > stacks of confusion if quickness buff noticed on enemy >unpredictable daze to your enemy.

I might daze if someone is in melee range of all my clones at the same time and I know I’m dazing that person at the EXACT moment I’m hitting that daze button. Does anyone seriously think unreliable/delayed CC’d is a good idea?

I don’t like how the clones/phantasms have to power walk to their target. I REALLY don’t like it in WvW. Let’s prance through the AOEs together holding hands!

If I am point “A” you as a player are point “B” and I command my clones to shatter on you. You move from point “B” to “C”. The clones first powerwalk to “B” FIRST before readjusting to realize you’re now at point “C.” This makes any use of daze in a situation where you opponent (be it PVE or PVP) isn’t standing still for the duration of the power walk to be moot.

I wish they would shatter into butterfly projectiles and home in on the target like scepter/staff auto attacks… any ranged auto attack really. It would give people a reason to equip a “reflect projectile” skill even if situational…

Stun breakers and condition cleaners are “must haves” in my opinion in some way shape or form for PVP. Project reflecters are “meh” haves because there isn’t enough consistent projectile pain points.

Phantasms are better hitting people. The amount of damage a phantasm does makes me cry when I see the damage tick. I wish my own attacks were that nice. Clones are useful decoys before provide very little but fodder if you know how to hide in your clones (or stealth at the right moment to get away). They do 0-4 damage even at level 80. Let me tell you… as a low level watching your clones crit for 0 damage was slightly offensive that I would even be shown that. =(

I love the class and we mesmers have our fair share of gimmicks that are hilarious/effecitve and they are working well for us right now. But it’s only a matter of time before more people see through our various ruses and these shatter mechanics definitely have to be ironed out better.

Malakree.5912:

When would you ever use them in SPvP….

I just finished a match in sPvP and yes, I did use it. Several times even. Without dying. So if you ask me, the problem doesn’t exist inside the Shatters themselves. The problem only exists in your skills.

If you find yourself going down too often, perhaps you should consider practicing more. Or try out one of the many other professions, whom you might end up loving more than you love the Mesmer =)

I have to agree that they shatters should be changed heavily. I sometimes use them, but more for the fun of it or to finish enemies of.

I havn’t analyzed it like some of you did, but from my purely subjective perspective it seems that destroying three of your damage-dealing, (if you have the right traits) boon-giving, enemy distracting illusions is not worth the little damage you get out of mind wrack. the other shatters seem completely useless to me, F2 sounds nice, but I rarely see it actually doing anything. The other two seem completely useless to me, but maybe I just didn’t understand them. Especially F4, which doesn’t stack. Three illusions are a far better distraction then being invulnerable for a second, it just doesn’t make any sense.

Malakree.5912:

Congratulations on summing up why the greatsword is a weak weapon.

It is somewhat weak-ish, but mostly as a result of it’s very slow #1 animation (the damage would be perfectly fine if the animation wasn’t so slow) and the root during the #3. #3 is fine outside of the self-rooting really.

The biggest issue people seem to have with GS – and OH Sword – is trying to keep the Phantasms alive. Not how we are supposed to use them from the way the skills are set up. Plus if you say you need the PZerker out for the Cripple, get Clone-Kill-Cripple as a trait and just spam away the clones with #2, much better anyhow.

To be honest, I find the general layout of Mesmer weapons to be far more practical than what many other classes have. Having clear “roles” for each weapon means they’re more distinct and easier to balance in the long haul. They’re not balanced yet though, and that is where the problem emanates from.

The way I see it:
Staff -> AE
GS -> Long Range (it has AE capabilities, but unless people are for whatever reason ignoring your PZerkers, it isn’t all that awesome)
Scepter -> Medium Range
Sword -> Melee Range, it gives you swiping attacks in turn, a feature most melee weapons in GW2 do, and a very nice way to balance Melee against Ranged inherently.

Then the offhands add flavour to the closer weapons:
Focus -> Support
Torch -> Stealth / Debuffing
Sword -> Defence
Pistol -> Offence

None of these are perfect in their roles yet, but the distinction is there, and is a good basic setup. It’s comparable to the Elementalist Long / Medium / Melee range weapon distinction, just with a lot more complexity since we swap weapons instead of having stances.

I personally use shatter for finishing up targets, right in that moment when the phantasms have the attack in CD and u have no other source of finishing DPS (since normal attacks from urself are pretty lame)
u go and finish ur target with it.. is pretty effective..
just make sure u can resummon again fast.. in case ur target doesnt die..
just learn how and when to use them.. and they’r really awesome..

And OFC cryt of frustation does less dmg than Mind wrack.. it adds AOE confusion on enemies.. lol

Carigan, you should delete that first paragraph and report that as an exploit. I guarantee you that is not an intended use of that weapons auto attacks.

nachdenki.2637:

I have to agree that they shatters should be changed heavily. I sometimes use them, but more for the fun of it or to finish enemies of.

I havn’t analyzed it like some of you did, but from my purely subjective perspective it seems that destroying three of your damage-dealing, (if you have the right traits) boon-giving, enemy distracting illusions is not worth the little damage you get out of mind wrack. the other shatters seem completely useless to me, F2 sounds nice, but I rarely see it actually doing anything. The other two seem completely useless to me, but maybe I just didn’t understand them. Especially F4, which doesn’t stack. Three illusions are a far better distraction then being invulnerable for a second, it just doesn’t make any sense.

F4 does stack.. to a max of 3s of complete evasion… u could virtually dodge anything..

i havent tested it.. but im guessing u could dodge even Epic Bosses AOE/CCs/etc..

and u can just resummon illusions instantly after using it.. in less time than those 3s…

the only problem i see with this skills is that it explodes ALL ur illusions at once.. i wish we could hand pick one and move it around and shatter it at our will..

that would be pretty epic.. xd

Sardoni.8361:

Carigan, you should delete that first paragraph and report that as an exploit. I guarantee you that is an intended use of that weapons auto attacks.

True, removed the description, I’ll report it once I get home.

ConterK.3972:

F4 does stack.. to a max of 3s of complete evasion… u could virtually dodge anything..

This, Blurred Frenzy, clones on dodge, dodging, Feedback and Mantra of Distraction allowed me to keep up the fight against the Fire-Golem in Sorrow’s Embrace when my team started tanking. Either the golem was interrupted, or I was unhittable. Crazy what you can do as a Mesmer, really.

ConterK.3972:

nachdenki.2637:

I have to agree that they shatters should be changed heavily. I sometimes use them, but more for the fun of it or to finish enemies of.

I havn’t analyzed it like some of you did, but from my purely subjective perspective it seems that destroying three of your damage-dealing, (if you have the right traits) boon-giving, enemy distracting illusions is not worth the little damage you get out of mind wrack. the other shatters seem completely useless to me, F2 sounds nice, but I rarely see it actually doing anything. The other two seem completely useless to me, but maybe I just didn’t understand them. Especially F4, which doesn’t stack. Three illusions are a far better distraction then being invulnerable for a second, it just doesn’t make any sense.

F4 does stack.. to a max of 3s of complete evasion… u could virtually dodge anything..

i havent tested it.. but im guessing u could dodge even Epic Bosses AOE/CCs/etc..

and u can just resummon illusions instantly after using it.. in less time than those 3s…

the only problem i see with this skills is that it explodes ALL ur illusions at once.. i wish we could hand pick one and move it around and shatter it at our will..

that would be pretty epic.. xd

Maybe they fixed it, I have to test that. But a few days ago F4 would not stack. If it would it became slightly more useful, true, but I still find it kind of weak compared to having 3 illusions.
You CAN instantly recast them sometimes. Not all clone spells are instant, casting 3 illusions can take a few seconds in which you do not attack (additionally to your shattered clones not attacking and the enemy focusing on you).

Like I said, this is purely subjective, but losing enemy distraction seems a huge drawback to me in PvE, and the effects I gain just seem not worth it.

I just finished a match in sPvP and yes, I did use it. Several times even. Without dying. So if you ask me, the problem doesn’t exist inside the Shatters themselves. The problem only exists in your skills.
If you find yourself going down too often, perhaps you should consider practicing more. Or try out one of the many other professions, whom you might end up loving more than you love the Mesmer =)

So we then go through the three basic questions.

1) Were you running a phantasm build? (if no why the hell not)
2) Did you have at least one phantasm out? (if no why the hell not)
3) You do realize you would have gotten way more damage by just leaving the phantasm out right? (if no…..)

The way I see it:
Staff → AE
GS → Long Range (it has AE capabilities, but unless people are for whatever reason ignoring your PZerkers, it isn’t all that awesome)
Scepter → Medium Range
Sword → Melee Range, it gives you swiping attacks in turn, a feature most melee weapons in GW2 do, and a very nice way to balance Melee against Ranged inherently.

It’s actually, staff—> survivabilty and ranged power/condition damage (more so power)
GS —> power based ranged weapon for use with the staff when you don’t want sword+OH.
sceptre —> For when you really desperately need a second block.
Sword —> Power based defensive and offensive weapon.
The OHs then have less of a purpose and are heavily build dependent.

Sword/OH + staff is far and away the best combo the mesmer has right now, with the GS being usable in PvE and the sceptre being mediocre for specific condition based builds.

just make sure u can resummon again fast.. in case ur target doesnt die..

If you ever shatter and your target doesn’t die it’s a sign you are shattering to often and should wait more. Unless its really freaking close using that shatter will actually cause you to take longer in killing the mob.

F4 does stack.. to a max of 3s of complete evasion

It doesn’t stop dots, it makes you unhittable for the duration not immune to damage. This however is the reliably legitimate reason to shatter your illusions.

1. Learn to time your shatters. Shatter when your cooldowns for more clones and phantasms is about to be up, so you can resummon them. Using this method, you can achieve very little phantasm downtime while still bringing shatter effects to the table.

2. If you don’t trait for shatters, you will obviously have less effect using shatters.

3. Illusory Persona is god.

4. Shatters could use some minor tuning. Mostly in terms of the illusions reaching the target in a slightly more consistent manner.

Edit:

In my opinion, when players get more experience and practice at using and maximizing the Mesmer class, shatter builds will become much more prevalent, and shattering in general will become more common in all builds, including maximum phantasm builds.

Properly traited with the right utilities all shatters are very strong. My only complaint is having to stagger illusions to have a longer daze, merely stacking duration per illusion would be easier to handle.

Shatter does a decent amount of damage, especially when traited and geared for it. The reason shatter seems puny is that it strips us of our primary damage and defense – while our direct attacks don’t do very much damage.

Direct attacks from weapons (ie blurred frenzy, mind stab, mirror blade) should do more damage – in line with what similar abilities from other classes do, and un-traited phantasm damage should be lowered a bit to compensate.

The argument that shatters can be strong if properly traited is not imho that strong when discussing if Shatters is a mechanic that need alot of work. You can trait mantras to be strong, that doesn’t make them useless without being traited. The point is that you have to go out of the way to make shatter works, and that does make them unsuited for a class mechanic, in their current state.

in general, if you shatter you are playing the mesmer wrong, unless doing as Strill mention in the OP.

Even the shatter to kill a target, is something that you in many situations don’t want to do, because you have already put up illusions on another target, to avoid waisting it when the first die. This leaves shatter out of the question. The medicore effeckt you get from shatter is simply better avoided. And that is why shatter needs work, because it is actual in so many situations just bad to use.
I have advocated the solution that mesmer got the ability to select to only shatter the illusions that shared the mesmers current target, to give the mesmer something to do against different targets, that include having phantasm and shatters as tools at the same time.

I like to point at that part of the problem is that mesmer is way to relieant on phantasms in its current setup. I have recently seen the suggestion that the mesmer actual did the attack that the phantasm do when summoning them instead of just stand there and summon. I really like that becasuse then the dependence on the phantasms could be toned down a bit. And that in it self could make the mesmer more interesting to play, while making phantasms less important, and that would give some space that shatter could become usefull.

but to sum up, unless making a killing blow in 1vs1, or traited out of the way to make it work , i have come to the conclussion that to use shatter is way to often a mistake.
And that is something i like to see addressed soon in some way or another.

I think ANet’s approach is to make all tools lackluster unless you trait for them — clones, phantasms, and shatters.

To be honest, a phantasm without traits is not extraordinarily effective.

Keep in mind that shatters, as a mechanic, are completely parallel to general class execution — e.g. all shatter damage/utility is on top of and concurrent with everything else you’re normally doing.

Cry of frustration is very good at what it does best, which is adding a few more confusion stacks. It can be used while channeling Confusing Images to reach a confusion stack of 8, or activated when confusions stacks are about to fall off to extend the confusion condition on the enemy.

Carighan.6758:

Strill.2591:

Yes clones can be remade quickly, but it’s still not worth shattering them because a SINGLE PHANTASM, say a Phantasmal Berseker, does more DPS on its own than constant 3-clone mind wracks every cooldown. That is simply WRONG, and leads to predictable and repetitive gameplay.

Yeah he does more damage. Especially once the AEs killed him.

Oh sorry, not what you wanted to hear, I know. :P

Try reading what people say sometime.

Strill2591

1. If you have no phantasms, Mind Wrack.
2. If your target or your last phantasm is about to die, Mind Wrack.
3. Never Mind Wrack in any other circumstance.

EasymodeX.4062:

e.g. all shatter damage/utility is on top of and concurrent with everything else you’re normally doing.

No it’s not. You give up valuable phantasm damage in order to shatter.

Strill.2591:

The fact that a single Phantasm attack out-damages a 3-clone mind wrack makes mind wracking extremely low priority.

And that’s not even taking into account
1. the bleeds phantasm applies
2. the bleeds applied by clones if you don’t shatter them.
3. loss of punching bags when you shatter and mobs picking you as target (even if you spawn new clones immediately)
4. traits that trigger on clone death (and don’t trigger on shatter)

Our class mechanic is in the toilet.

Mediocre player skill is in the toilet.

But that’s true by definition.

Sardoni.8361:

I wish they would shatter into butterfly projectiles and home in on the target like scepter/staff auto attacks… any ranged auto attack really.

I suggested this during beta on these forums and was pretty much ignored by everyone.

EasymodeX.4062:

Mediocre player skill is in the toilet.

But that’s true by definition.

Because player skill argument totally beats simple math.

Diversion needs to add more time on the stun per illusion destroyed.

Distortion I wish it had a secondary effect. Maybe an aoe blind.

It’s poor players that like to ignore half the fight and pretend that the math is simple. They typically see the big number and feel fuzzy.

piitb.7635:

Diversion needs to add more time on the stun per illusion destroyed.

Distortion I wish it had a secondary effect. Maybe an aoe blind.

There is a trait that gives distortion a reflect against ranged attacks.

Malakree.5912:

So we then go through the three basic questions.

1) Were you running a phantasm build? (if no why the hell not)
2) Did you have at least one phantasm out? (if no why the hell not)
3) You do realize you would have gotten way more damage by just leaving the phantasm out right? (if no…..)

I had a total of 2 phantasms in my 2 weaponsets. Why? Because it was fun. I occasionally had the 2 phantasms out, and occasionally only had 4 illusions up and running.

But I already see what kind of a person you are. You can try to cram out as many numbers as you’d like, and try to aim as high as possible.. But Mesmer is mainly a profession meant to control and support. It’s not supposed to be a tank, it’s not supposed to be a prime damage dealer. Instead of trying to force old habits unto these professions, try to have fun instead.

EasymodeX.4062:

Why is that?

You can re-summon the Phantasms instantly, and their attacks are on cooldown anyways.

Why am I arguing with bad players?

Why would you re-summon a phantasm when you could have two phantasms up at once?

AprilRain.7649:

But Mesmer is mainly a profession meant to control and support. It’s not supposed to be a tank, it’s not supposed to be a prime damage dealer. Instead of trying to force old habits unto these professions, try to have fun instead.

Not supposed to be a prime damage dealer? I guess that must be why Sword/Greatsword offer almost nothing but damage. Not supposed to tank? I guess that must be why we have traits and skills to boost the hp of our illusions.

Try doing some explorable mode dungeons and get back to us. Mesmers can perform any role.

Because 2 phantasm + 2 shatter > 2 phantasm + 0 shatter.

M4th is h4rd.