Need advice: Mesmer or Ranger?
Hmm can’t speak much personally, but I can give out some facts about mesmer.
Mesmers are a little weird on the condition cleansing side. With traits and skills, they can remomve condis as much as a guardian. However, that would require you to sacrifice an important utility suck as blink or decoy. So basically, either you get a llt of condi clear, or little to no at all. Though most of the time Mantra of Resolve should be enough.
Mesmers definately have much more incombat mobiloty and positioning via blinks from staff, sword and the utility, or via stealth, and even portal. However, their out of combat mobiloty is kind of horrid, with no out of combat movement speed buffs, and a low uptime on swiftness. Though this problem can be offset by centaur runes or travelers, tho i wpuldnt pick any of those too often. Rangers definately have more ooc mobility.
Also Rangers should have an easier time leveling compared to mesmer, since mesmers are so trait dependant, and some of the most valuable traits are either master or grandmaster.
At the moment, shatter mesmer is the hardest class/build to play in the entire game when it comes to PvP.
You don’t usually run condi removal and depend on your team for that.
You need good positioning, good CD management to play mesmer well.
Rotations are the hardest of any class/build at the moment as well.
Reflexes are a must and I think you will develop them over time.
Kiting wise, I’ve been practicing it for a while now to find all the spots and I’ve still not found all of them, you just need to learn the spots and get used to using them which is a long process and does increase your skill level a lot.
Mobility on mesmer isn’t bad, you should run with traveler runes, then your mobility will be decent. Don’t be afraid to loose out on a little bit of damage for mobility, you still have plenty of damage! Staff gives you amazing mobility, tons of phase retreat ports you can do (as well as forward phase retreat), I’ve not had many experience playing ranger, I did like 30 games then deleted it because I got very bored. I felt like it was just too easy and thus boring.
In a nutshell, mesmer is very, very hard to play well and takes a lot of practice. At the same time, I find that a lot of fun.
If you want, go into my video guide and watch the two videos that I have up, working on 2 new ones at the same time now, also Helseths twitch is a very good place to learn and see top mesmer play. Furthermore if you decide to go the mesmer route then you can feel free to whisper me in game for any help you may need.
Rain touched on leveling, you level mesmer by doing PvP and then you use Tomes of Knowledge, you can also just get mantra of pain + sw/t /gs and go into eotm.
(edited by Jurica.1742)
At the moment, shatter mesmer is the hardest class/build to play in the entire game when it comes to PvP.
Bold statement.Not true at all. And im playing only mesmer in pvp.
Thanks for the quick responses! I have been watching streams and youtube montages but i cant relate much at this level. I guess i need more practice to learn from them. My biggest issues right now seem to be pulling rotations correctly and condis.
Ranger was more forgiving but i hate longbow sound (pewpew)
Ive been told that there are a relatively high number of build variations for mesmer, is this true?
I’ve leveled a ranger and a memser to 80-
You were worried about needing good reflexes. You’ve played d/d ele and thief…imo those are some of the more complicated professions in terms of reaction and timing, most ranger and mesmer builds wouldn’t take anymore effort than either and are less combo oriented than both I believe. I don’t think that should affect your choice, although if I had to choose I would go with a ranger for being less reaction oriented.
As for out of combat mobily…Mesmer has VERY little access to swiftness where ranger has plenty of access. Just look at a few of these mesmer forums, theres usually a new thread about mesmers lack of mobility. As far as in-combat mobility is concerned mesmer would probably win especially with a staff or torch in hand. I played a GS+sw/torch zerker build for a while and never really worried about my mobility. Rangers don’t have as much blinks/ports or stealth but they can have just as much mobility. I recall running people around forever with my ranger with near perma-swiftness, Lightning Reflexes utility, longbow #3, and some stability but I think ranger mobility needs to be focused on more if you want to be mobile where mesmer in-combat mobility comes with most builds.
The reverse can be said about condi cleanse. I’m always struggling to fit condi cleanse in my mesmer builds, I usually use Null Field for it’s versatility and group support but against a full condi build I’m just prolonging my death. Rangers can passively throw conditions off them to their pet, healing spring is boss at condi removal, signet of removal and so-on…Of course like others have stated mesmers can be built with ample condi cleanse but the way the traits are placed you need to give up a lot of damage and utility slots to make up for it.
I would recommend trying out different mesmer set-ups and builds in spvp if you haven’t already, it just takes a bit more work to get use to the mesmer play-styles, and if nothing sticks out to you ranger might be your option. Rangers are better for roaming wvw imo but I love mesmers group support and tower stealing ability too much <3.
Sorry for the length, I just started typing. Hope I helped :P
edit: just read your reply, mesmer does have a lot of variations on builds it’s not “if you’re going zerker ranger you need longbow!” weapon choice is usually up to your preference, heck I’ve heard of zerker scepter builds for mesmer. Try out a few different builds and weapons, sometimes using the same trait set-up and just changing weapons can really change your play-style
(edited by Sabwa.7358)
At the moment, shatter mesmer is the hardest class/build to play in the entire game when it comes to PvP.
Bold statement.Not true at all. And im playing only mesmer in pvp.
Tell me what is hardest then?
What has less room for error than mesmer and what builds rotations depend on as many factors?
You must be playing against rabbit ranks or PvEers, because mesmer is easy there, but then again, any class is.
At the moment, shatter mesmer is the hardest class/build to play in the entire game when it comes to PvP.
Bold statement.Not true at all. And im playing only mesmer in pvp.
Tell me what is hardest then?
What has less room for error than mesmer and what builds rotations depend on as many factors?
You must be playing against rabbit ranks or PvEers, because mesmer is easy there, but then again, any class is.
Well,for starters,thief has less room for error.
But hardest class to play at high level pvp is ele. both d/d and staff are depends on so much rotation factors and have room for error as much as the shatter mesmer.
PS prejudging wasnt called for.
At the moment, shatter mesmer is the hardest class/build to play in the entire game when it comes to PvP.
Bold statement.Not true at all. And im playing only mesmer in pvp.
Tell me what is hardest then?
What has less room for error than mesmer and what builds rotations depend on as many factors?
You must be playing against rabbit ranks or PvEers, because mesmer is easy there, but then again, any class is.Well,for starters,thief has less room for error.
But hardest class to play at high level pvp is ele. both d/d and staff are depends on so much rotation factors and have room for error as much as the shatter mesmer.
PS prejudging wasnt called for.
What? I wish my mesmer aslo has the high sustain high damage high healing that ele has. I wish my mesmer also has fire fields and a lot of blast finishers for that might stacking
Thief? S/d thief with that absurd number of evades, plus the teles, stealth has less room for error?
Do mesmers in general have a hard time with condi cleansing? This is important for me as i know hate getting locked down or burnt to death. – I don’t find I have a hard time with conditions but I always run the Mender’s Purity trait and have Null Field on my bar.
I can adapt to kiting and abusing LoS but does it require too much practice to make succesful combos and deceiving your opponent? (I play d/d ele s/d thief and d/p thief, how does the skill requirement compare to them?) – If you have Deceptive Evasion (trait that lets you spawn clones on dodge) it can make things more confusing but by now most good players know to auto target the mesmer and they can still find you.
I do not have lightning reflexes so cant react to everything. Would this be a huge problem for a mesmer or is it something that develops naturally? – I found it developed naturally and we have a few defenses to help you stay alive. Learn not to spam Sword 2 and learn to use the F4 distortion!
Lastly how is both in and out of combat mobility compared to ranger? (especially in wvw) – Mesmers are slow. You get used to it though and if you want to use your rune slot to slot in traveler’s runes it gets better.
I am not a fan of torch myself, I usually slot in focus in the off hand. It’s a little clunky at first to get used to but focus lets you do so many neat things with curtain and the phantom isn’t as useless as the iMage is. Sword/Sword is another way to go, you get a block and an awesome phantom too!
I find I enjoy the mesmer playstyle better than a ranger. I don’t have to micro manage my pets. Also, who doesn’t love seeing their armor/character another 3 times?
At the moment, shatter mesmer is the hardest class/build to play in the entire game when it comes to PvP.
Bold statement.Not true at all. And im playing only mesmer in pvp.
Tell me what is hardest then?
What has less room for error than mesmer and what builds rotations depend on as many factors?
You must be playing against rabbit ranks or PvEers, because mesmer is easy there, but then again, any class is.Well,for starters,thief has less room for error.
But hardest class to play at high level pvp is ele. both d/d and staff are depends on so much rotation factors and have room for error as much as the shatter mesmer.
PS prejudging wasnt called for.
What? I wish my mesmer aslo has the high sustain high damage high healing that ele has. I wish my mesmer also has fire fields and a lot of blast finishers for that might stacking
Thief? S/d thief with that absurd number of evades, plus the teles, stealth has less room for error?
Exactly. Thief would be harder than mesmer if thief didn’t have stealth (I know stealth isn’t immunity but it helps you run away or slip by on low HP unnoticed) and a lot of ports, it is generally more squishy but it has either a lot of blinds and stealth in DP + ports to survive or evades + ports in sd.
Rotations on ele? Go to a on going fight and don’t die. While mesmer rotations depend on your, your teams and enemy cooldowns, respawns, your weapon set, your utilities, enemy thief location ect.
(edited by Jurica.1742)
At the moment, shatter mesmer is the hardest class/build to play in the entire game when it comes to PvP.
Bold statement.Not true at all. And im playing only mesmer in pvp.
Tell me what is hardest then?
What has less room for error than mesmer and what builds rotations depend on as many factors?
You must be playing against rabbit ranks or PvEers, because mesmer is easy there, but then again, any class is.Well,for starters,thief has less room for error.
But hardest class to play at high level pvp is ele. both d/d and staff are depends on so much rotation factors and have room for error as much as the shatter mesmer.
PS prejudging wasnt called for.
What? I wish my mesmer aslo has the high sustain high damage high healing that ele has. I wish my mesmer also has fire fields and a lot of blast finishers for that might stacking
Thief? S/d thief with that absurd number of evades, plus the teles, stealth has less room for error?
Exactly. Thief would be harder than mesmer if thief didn’t have stealth (I know stealth isn’t immunity but it helps you run away or slip by on low HP unnoticed) and a lot of ports, it is generally more squishy but it has either a lot of blinds and stealth in DP + ports to survive or evades + ports in sd.
Rotations on ele? Go to a on going fight and don’t die. While mesmer rotations depend on your, your teams and enemy cooldowns, respawns, your weapon set, your utilities, enemy thief location ect.
This is rather bunch of excuses to me:
1.“Thief got stealth”-mesmer have shatters AND a bit of stealth.
2.“Thief got evades”-same as above,it is either thief evade a lot or stealth alot,depending on the build.
3.“Ele have self regen self heal”-that is Cele ele which is cheese as PU mesmer in comparsion.So please if you gonna compare things,compare full zerk ele to shatter mesmer.Better yet,play as zerk d/d ele now and tell me.Cause I tried.
4."Rotations depends on you,your teams and enemy cooldowns, respawns, your weapon set, your utilities, enemy thief location ect. " -isnt it true about ALL CLASSES?
The general idea here is that mesmer requires extra skill to play,which is not.Every class can be mastered,even playing as mindless warrior requires to understand it.I get it,you are dedicated mesmers who wants to show that mesmer are the hardest class to master,I want to think that it is too,but in reality necros,thieves and eles are not easy going aswell.Maybe you should play them to understand.
Bunch of excuses?
Blind a mesmer = no phants which is a major source of damage.
Blind a thief = make any weapon skill miss, and we are back in business. Bec Of no cds.
Stealth is also a huge factor, i dont think its an excuse.
Shatter burst needs 3 clones proper positioning, thief burst? Stealth and backstab. Air and fire sigils makes the burst harder.
Landing a 5 clone shatter is easier?
FYI
Cele ele is not the same cheese As PU mesmer, can PU mesmer hold a point? Cele can keep a point contseted while having all that boons, regen and burst.
Do you see PU mesmers in high tiered pvp?
If you say mesmer has less room For error i wanna see you duel a thief with a shatter mesmer.
I mean a skilled thief like caed or toker.
Bunch of excuses?
Blind a mesmer = no phants which is a major source of damage.
Blind a thief = make any weapon skill miss, and we are back in business. Bec Of no cds.Stealth is also a huge factor, i dont think its an excuse.
Shatter burst needs 3 clones proper positioning, thief burst? Stealth and backstab. Air and fire sigils makes the burst harder.
Landing a 5 clone shatter is easier?
FYI
Cele ele is not the same cheese As PU mesmer, can PU mesmer hold a point? Cele can keep a point contseted while having all that boons, regen and burst.
Do you see PU mesmers in high tiered pvp?
If you say mesmer has less room For error i wanna see you duel a thief with a shatter mesmer.
I mean a skilled thief like caed or toker.
Seriously? You complaining about blind now? what gives…
Blind is typical to D/p thieves,which easly die with one key inturpt,if you didnt killed a thief that you just inturpt his blackpowder+hs combo,it is your own fault not the mechanic.
I can counter every thing you say,cause you just compare thief main purpose,with mesmer side purpose,thief got only backstab as for high dmg attack(if we talking about d/p)shatter mesmer? pick your poison:ibeserker,iduelist,iswordsman,even iwarlock(used it with CI after inturpt the thief had like 5-6 conds and single hit gave him 7k dmg),it is true the backstab got much more dmg from those I mentioned,but for example GS #2 skill at close range (as backstab)even infront of the player with mindwrack,does the same dmg as backstab.
D/p never was a problem for mesmer afaik,it is those S/d thieves evading around,which I still have nothing I can do about them,but same as other things in life,everyone has its counter.
About PU mesmer not holding points,ask Pyro,he says you can.And mesmers are in tough spot at high level pvp in general,cause they offer nothing to the team which other classes not offering already.Not because they are easy kills.
We got way off topic here so I’ll see your comment and wont be answering.
Obvious troll is obvious..
God I hate people like that, it’s funny how most of them only talk about 1 build for a certain class then pretend like mesmer can have 5 weapon sets at the same time and 2 builds in one.
1 more to my ignore list!
I play mesmer in WvW all the time and do well. I’m 36 now, so I don’t have 18-year old reflexes, but after some practice i can move and react very quickly. Go mesmer ! :p
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