Guild Wars 2

I’ve mainly been spending my time playing Thief and Warrior, with a small break for necro. But I really want to try understanding every class, and lately mesmers have been giving me a really hard time in PvP. I know, I know. A thief asking for help on a mesmer. Well, sorry, I don’t play the fotm glass cannon builds like 99% of people, and mesmers give me a lot of trouble.

Anyway, I’ve watched MrPrometheus’ mesmer videos, and I’ve been playing one for a few levels now, and it still just strikes me as a ridiculously unnecessarily complex class that does most of it’s damage far too indirectly. Maybe I’m still “doing it wrong”, but that’s why I’m here.

So: is there a simple and easy to use build for mesmers while a person is still learning the class, or is it micro-manage hell for the entire life of the mesmer? It just seems like phantasms and clones die REALLY fast. I know they aren’t pets like a necro or ranger, but kitten One shot most times. Maybe this changes at higher levels with better gear and traits?

The other thing that bothers me a LOT is how illusions disappear after a target dies. They don’t hang around for the duration of combat, but only until the target you sick them on expires. It makes sense that they disappear after combat ends, but wiping after a single target just feels really counter intuitive.

Yet another thing which troubles me about the mesmer is the lack of any kind of reliable movement enhancement. There’s a trait that increases speed during combat, which is great for combat! But no over-land movement besides a short duration swiftness increase through the scepter. This has GOT to suck in WvW when you need to get from point A to point B quickly, and downright mind-numbing for PVE stuff like map completion.

I really want to like this class, because on paper(and from what I’ve seen mesmers do) it looks like a VERY strong class. And please please PLEASE don’t take this post as me trashing on mesmers or criticizing the class. I am in no position to do either. These are just my initial impressions after 10 levels of PVE and several hours of research; and they could very well be way off base. I’m making this thread because I want to understand the class, not bash it.

So, experienced mesmers: where do I go from here? Just stick it out and level to 80 before the class really comes into it’s own? Or is there some secret that I’m missing?

Yes unfortunately it is a micromanage from hell situation. Also another tidbit of info…once you sick them on a target..they don’t switch targets. They stick to it like glue till it either dies or they do or you do.

Mesmers and elementalists are the two toughest classes to play due to the way they are made. many think that all they had to do is build one and win in tPVP and that just isnt’ the case. You may do well in sPVP where its just a glory fest with no real talent but in tPVP if you are unfamiliar with your class in anyway, it becomes apparent very quickly.

I wish I could give you advice other than to play to at least thirty before going into pvp (allthough its a great way of figuring out which skills to unlock first as you’ll want to use your most used skills in pvp and translate it to pve so you can get used to using them and learn how to use them and in what situation).

I guess part of getting used to the Mesmer is changing the way you think about “pets”. When conjuring a Phantasm, don’t think of it as a pet that dishes out steady DPS: think of it as a one-shot attack that, if you’re lucky, might reward you with another shot. In other words, when you use a Phantasm skill expect only the first attack, any further attacks are pleasant surprises.

Usually of course, you would get multiple attacks from a Phantasm… but if you think and plan in terms of Phantasms having just one attack, it… feels smoother, and the impact of losing a Phantasm quickly won’t be as dearly felt.

The Mermer illusion mechanic is what it is. If you want longer-term minions play a Necromancer, and if you want pets play a Ranger. The mechanism is unique and interesting. If you want a simpler class, you have that choice as well. Personally, I’d hate to see the the Mesmer simplified to the point that it’s dumbed-down. As you say, in the hands of someone who gets and likes the playstyle, it’s powerful. Which means that it’s working just fine (excepting bugs, of course).

If you need a lore-based reason for the illusion mechanism, my guess would be that the illusion is put into the target’s mind. The target dies, the illusion disappears.

I haven’t felt like I’ve been particularly slow to this point, but I also haven’t gotten my engineer to the point that he can be near-perma-speeded with various mechanisms. So there’s a downside.

When travelling, focus in off-hand is a must for speed boosts.
Shatter your illusions when the mob is bellow 20%, like you said, the illusions vanish when the mobs die, don’t let that happen, it’s wasted damage :-P

Traits really define the mesmer you want to play, things will get better at higher levels.

There is a passive skill that increases illusions hp, it’s a very good skill at the level you will be able to attain it, and it is easy to replace it at higher levels (because of traits).

Signet of Illusions really isn’t that good as the effect only kicks in a few seconds after the Illusion is conjured, and quite often it is those initial few seconds that you need the extra health to keep Illusions alive for whatever purpose.

Most of your impressions regarding the class are correct.

My biggest gripe with the class is the lack of move speed, the only boost is as you say: a short duration sprint on a weapon, though it’s the focus not the scepter.

But then again the game itself just has too much mind numbing foot travel, especially WvW… Though in all the classes I have played it is definitely the most pronounced on the Mesmer.

The “micro hell” aspect of the class is probably what I enjoy most about it.

It’s probably easiest to level with sword / GS. With mirror images, you can pretty much start a fight with 3 clones, blow them us, and then summon phantasms as an extra damage source.

The easiest build would likely be a power/precision GS kite build. It’s still not as simple as run up and hit 1, but its a lot less work than using staff/clones/shatters to AoE groups of mobs.

A couple of notes I’d like to mention about this class:

• Our class has a very potent repertoire of traits. That is the main reason why a lot of posters here say that the game gets better later on. (the most often referred to above level 40) The act of equipping one trait can transform your game from frustration to pure bliss.

• Our class deals with snap decisions more than any class. Our damage sources are the most diverse (Conditions, Direct damage, Illusions), and we wait until the right opportunity to inflict severe damage spikes to great effect.

• Positioning management is very important. We have the ability to weave in and out of melee. We have gap closers and gap openers.

• For quick movement in WvW, there is the Temporal Curtain ability from the Focus, as well as the utility skill Blink (1 skill point to unlock).

Hmm….thanks for the info guys. I suspect that mesmer is a class that I’ll never master, but I’m getting some really good insight into how it all works together. The guys I see in PvP must be really good, or at least have a firm liking for micro-management of their illusions.

Have some faith! I’m sure with enough time, you can master the mesmer. And you are going in right direction, asking people for help.

Looking at Mr. Prometheus’ videos are a great start. I’d recommend Taugrim’s legion build, even for PvE.

At early levels, I recommend a Greatsword for ranged attack, and a Sword/Sword or Sword/Pistol alternate set to handle the monsters once they get to melee range. Because you don’t have the +40% recharge speed increase (Illusionist’s Celerity + Weapon Specialization) yet, weapon swapping will be almost mandatory. Start blasting from ranged with the Greatsword, and then swap to the melee weapon to finish mobs off.

Learn to summon illusions on different targets, so that they last longer, and don’t forget to shatter when they reach under 10% of their health.

Alternatively, you can go into WvW, and try different builds there. I leveled my mesmer 10 levels by playing a staff/sword focus setup, harassing the enemies with Chaos Storm, selecting people to pull back with Temporal Curtain → Into the Void, and then rooting them with the Sword’s Illusionary Leap → Leap.

Our class has a great learning curve because we have to keep assessing the battlefield, but learning the finesse of the mesmer certainly changes the outlook on how the game plays.

don’t forget to shatter when they reach under 10% of their health.

I found this interesting, because it seems like most times illusions are being one shot. It makes me feel like the trait to increase illusion HP will be a must take.

Eliteseraph.4970:

don’t forget to shatter when they reach under 10% of their health.

I found this interesting, because it seems like most times illusions are being one shot. It makes me feel like the trait to increase illusion HP will be a must take.

no its not. if you’re fighting a single regular mob, you use your clone summoning ability, phantasm, let the phantasm get 1 volley off, then shatter and the mob is dead.

if you’re fighting an veteran or harder mob, you just continously summon clones/phantasms and let them tank for you. you will be able to out summon any veterans dps. reducing summoning cd’s is most important. chaos 5 and whatever main weapon specialization is a must.

Yes, it is very important to summon your clone before you summon your phantasm, so that you let the clone tank for your phantasm. Your clone can take 1-2 hits, while your phantasms are fragile, and can be 1-shot.

You can take Signet of Illusions to make them beefier, but I felt that it is not needed if you pop a clone first, then the phantasm. I believe all the clone-generation weapon skills have a lower cool down than the weapon phantasm skills, so by default you will be having more clones than phantasms.

It’s absolutely OK for clones to die. That’s what they are for, asides from shatter fodder.

As you level up, I highly recommend to take Illusionist’s Celerity and then work towards the weapon specialization trait for your weapon set. Meanwhile, evaluate the weapons available to you, and stick with the ones you enjoy.

My advice at low levels (and still at high levels)…don’t be afraid to melee. Mesmers have some really nice close range weapons the do a good job of damage absorbsion.

…You’re fighting a single regular mob, you use your clone summoning ability, phantasm, let the phantasm get 1 volley off, then shatter and the mob is dead.

Interesting. It must work a little different at slightly higher levels with decent gear and traits to back it up. In the 1-15 rage where I still don’t even have a helmet or. Shoulders or jewelry, clones get 1-shot and phantasms 2. And that’s against non-veteran enemies of even level.

Ill have to give mesmer more time then. The suggestion to treat illusions like just another attack instead of short-term pets was great, and has already changed the way I approach playing it.

As a mesmer with a high investment in toughness/boon duration, I have absolutely no problem keeping up with any class (except maybe a thief if they’re trying to stay ahead of me) moving between points in WvW. I have a high +boon duration, focus 20% faster cd’s, and manipulation cooldown for blink when not in combat. Between those and getting lucky with chaos storm giving me swiftness, I am often the first person to reach an objective, which gives me time to set up my clones/phantasms.

Not to mention that enemies cannot escape me, not even thiefs. Mesmers have sooooo much cc it’s not even funny. It really all depends on how you make your mesmer.

First off, excellent name, Nixon. Second, I had thought about doing something similar after poring over the traits and skills and weapon abilities. Have you considered throwing in some runes to increase swiftness duration(Rune of the Centaur?) as well, or is that just not worth it?

Hey Eliteseraph, I just made a fresh mesmer (he’s level 5 now) to get back to the feeling of starting a mesmer (I will also be using that character to make instructional tutorial videos I have in mind for the future), and I have a couple observations right off the bat:

1. I used a Sword and Pistol. The Sceptre does not have the versatility of damage output that the Sword has, so I immediately went and bought a sword. The pistol is from the starting quest reward.

2. Even at low levels, I was able to handle groups of 3 to 4. I handled them as such:

• I made sure to group the monsters as close as I could, so that my Sword auto-attack would hit as many as possible
• I used my clone to divert damage away from me. At such a low level, I can expect the clone not to survive all of them, so I shattered the clone when I saw that its health was low.
• Because Blurred Frenzy (Sword attack 2) makes you temporarily invincible, I tried to use it after I shatter my clone, so that I still had protection.
• My phantasm I summoned immediately after I summoned my clone. With me and my clone in melee range, I almost guaranteed the safety of my phantasm.
• Trick Shot (Pistol skill 5) I used right after Blurred Frenzy, so that I could prevent damage just a bit longer.
• I liberally used Mind Wrack and Cry of Frustration for some extra damage, either as finishers, or to squeeze some last bit of performance out of my dying clones.

3. I don’t feel the need to micro-manage yet, but I do believe it is because of my weapon choice. The staff and greatsword, by nature of being ranged weapons, naturally will need to have some elements of playing keep-away.

4. It only occurred to me recently to put it in writing, as I have taken this concept to be for granted, but I must stress this point when learning about the mesmer class: Most, if not all, of our weapon abilities are multi-faceted in nature, meaning they can be used for specific purposes depending on each situation. I’ll quickly demonstrate:

Illusionary Leap (Sword skill 3) can be used in the following way:

• Make a clone beside you
• Gap closer to enemy
• Use as a leap finisher for an armor buff

I do believe that this is the most important thing to learn about the mesmer. All our abilities can be used in different situations for different effects.

I have yet to try out the other weapons, as I do have lots of experience with the Greatsword/Sword builds, but I will update this thread with information on Staff and the other off-hands when I get more time to play.

Eliteseraph.4970:

First off, excellent name, Nixon. Second, I had thought about doing something similar after poring over the traits and skills and weapon abilities. Have you considered throwing in some runes to increase swiftness duration(Rune of the Centaur?) as well, or is that just not worth it?

Thank ya. And I have, considered it, but it’s not worth having both the offhand and the Centaur rune, as the swiftness would be way over the top (and temporal curtain doesn’t stack swiftness, sadly). You should go with one or the other- either will do a fairly good job getting you around. That being said, there’s no harm in having an alternate armor set just for the marathon runs, like when you’re running supply

Well, all I know so far is that I definitely don’t feel OP or super strong. At the low levels I feel just like any other class. Maybe this changes at 80, but I’m not seeing the nature of the complaints so far; with the caveat that my opinion is highly subject to my limited experience with the class so far.

I’ll keep using this thread to update you guys as I level. Assuming I don’t get completely frustrated with the class and give it up, it should provide a good log for any other people taking a look at maybe trying mesmer.

Level 14 at the time of this post. Been using Staff and GS. I did try sword/pistol earlier and liked it. Honestly I’m leaning towards switching to GS with a swap to S/P for levelling. I’m still not really liking illusions much. They just die too quickly, and that REALLY makes me want either the traits to improve their HP, or the trait that does bad stuff to enemies when they die.

mesmer definitely doesn’t feel op leveling it, infact it would feel underpowered unless it was your first char. it’s hard to keep up damage compared to other classes when you’re in newb leveling gear, as you’re not only kittening your own damage but your illusions as well.

most people are referring to pvp when they say its op, once you get 80 and geared up, its very noticeable how easily you can adapt to most situations in pvp. infact the hardest opponents for me atleast are other mesmers.

also when i was leveling, i used staff as a main weapon. because staff clones are the only ones with actual damage output in form of condition damage. when traited for more bounce, it does really well in most pve encounters.

using GS requires much more gear to be as effective as staff, but once you are geared, it has much more damage potential.

Eliteseraph.4970:

Hmm….thanks for the info guys. I suspect that mesmer is a class that I’ll never master, but I’m getting some really good insight into how it all works together. The guys I see in PvP must be really good, or at least have a firm liking for micro-management of their illusions.

The one side benefit of Mesmers not being faceroll in PvE and actually having to press more than “11111111111111111”, is that by the time you hit level 80 you usually have at least some concept of how to play the game.

In terms of level I strongly recommend:

Level 1-7: Scepter mandatory. You have 0 traits and no weapon swap until 7. Your illusion generation is terrible, so you need the clones off of Scepter1 to Shatter.

Level 7-40: GS and Staff. Simplest highest AOE combination with good illusion generation and strong kiting and tanking. I killed multiple mobs 6 levels higher than me simultaneously at these levels by simple kiting (mostly because I refused to go to the other racial starting zones, so I was under-leveled for the current content and story quests).

Level 40+: Any weapons using specialized builds.

Ok, been awhile since I updated. Haven’t played as much mesmer as I’d like. It’s a frustratingly slow class at low levels, ankittenep finding exCuses to play something else. But I’m back at it again.

The movement speed out of combat is really bothering me. I’m used to thief and warrior who more or less have perma swiftness. Engineer also, and ranger pretty kitten close. Hell, even necros get speed increases through dagger use and a couple of weapon skills.

Killing still seems extremely slow. I watch pretty much every other class down stuff in about half the time it takes me, but maybe my gear is crap. I’ve also heard that mesmer more or less sucks kitten until around level 40, so I’m gonna keep at it.

On a side note, I completed the Mad King’s Clocktower, so at least I have some nice boots waiting for me at 80.

Get the backpack too. It’s nice for low levels and you’ll have both a condition damage one and can get the zerker one from the story quest.

If you’re not enjoying soloing you can 1) craft away 10 levels. 2) slot feedback and run around with the zerg doing wvw.

Heya Seraph! In the beginning, I suggest your first five points go into your Illusion trait path in order to get -20% CD on your illusion skills.

Later on, as others mentioned, you gain game changing traits – One of the most useful ones are the ones which reduce a weapon’s skill CDs by 20%. It stacks with your -20% illusion, meaning you suddenly become able to pop out 1-2 clones/phantasms every 4-6s.

Try to lose the mentality of “pet” as a Mesmer – The profession is built heavily around manipulation, so view your clones and illusions as pawns to be used and expended. You can easily replace them in mass, so often it’s better to shatter your current batch and bring up a new one!

Even if you’re not a shatter build, it’s a nice extra damage boost. Especially if you took the “Mind Wrack +20%” damage in the Domination tree at 10 trait points.

So to recap – The first traits I suggest you take, regardless of your build, is Illusions 5 for -20% illusion CD, and Domination 10, for Mind Wrack +20%. That’ll help you offset the slow start of being a Mesmer.
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The trick to Mesmer isn’t our killing speed, it’s our survivability. You can kill one mob just as fast and reliably as you can kill three mobs, just as fast and maybe as reliable as you can kill five mobs. When I go grinding/farming/dicking around on my Mesmer, I think a minimum of 5-8 mobs at a time is good.

Because your damage can be dealt through Phantasms, and you can hold aggro on spammed clones, your job isn’t to burst down mobs – It’s to outlast them. Outplay them, and other players. You have the DPS, it’s learning to apply it, and finding your personal limits regarding how far you can apply them.

I switched to GS+Staff at around level 20, and upgraded all my gear. I don’t know if that did the trick, or if it was the gear or the trait points, but my mesmer is really starting to lay the smack down on mobs.

Level 30 now and PVE is getting a lot easier. Normal enemies die really fast except for things like ogres and ettins with huge health pools. Veterans tend to go down pretty fast as well, as long as I can keep enough phantasms out to help with damage.

But that leads me back to one of my original issues with the class: illusions being killed too easily. Any time there is more than one enemy, my illusions almost don’t even get to attack before they’re killed, and sometimes before I can shatter them. Phantasms and clones both. They even die even when enemies aren’t actively trying to kill them because they’re caught by incidental splash damage. To translate that into another class, it’s like half my attacks are missing or being being blocked.

This makes the class feel GREAT at 1v1 situations, but poor in any kind of multi-target or AOE environment. I suppose the traits to cause illusions to inflict conditions when killed is a stopgap for this. But it still rub the wrong way to see a clone or phantasm die the instant it’s summoned.

Yes it’s a Profession for those who like to micro-manage. Why do stuff with one button when you can do it with 3?

And if you think the Mesmer is micro-management hell, wait till you try the Engineer

Once you can get clone on dodge it doesn’t matter if they die quick, because you pop more out every single dodge. I would use mirror images then ileap blurred frenzy and shatter, then summon iwarden/izerker dodge roll let them get their first attack off then cry of frustration. If anything is left standing after that just iwave to push the mobs away mirror blade then mind stab this whole string of combo can be done very quickly. Using this method though most mobs will come after you since you are in range to start, giving your clones time to not die unless it is through heavy aoe. You will get vigor on crit through traits and then I reccommend using a energy sigil on weapon swap you can pretty much dodge roll infinitely every 1-2 seconds.

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Once you can get clone on dodge it doesn’t matter if they die quick, because you pop more out every single dodge. I would use mirror images then ileap blurred frenzy and shatter, then summon iwarden/izerker dodge roll let them get their first attack off then cry of frustration. If anything is left standing after that just iwave to push the mobs away mirror blade then mind stab this whole string of combo can be done very quickly. Using this method though most mobs will come after you since you are in range to start, giving your clones time to not die unless it is through heavy aoe. You will get vigor on crit through traits and then I reccommend using a energy sigil on weapon swap you can pretty much dodge roll infinitely every 1-2 seconds.

Good info. Like I thought, the class starts out really weak, and just keeps getting stronger. Other classes don’t really feel like they have such a steep power curve, and level out much sooner.

I have to change my stance. At first I thought it was micro-management hell, but really it’s not that bad once you get used to it. You don’t really need to keep track of illusions like I originally thought, since they’re more fire and forget. The only thing I need to watch is how many I have out at a time for shattering.

Eliteseraph.4970:

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Once you can get clone on dodge it doesn’t matter if they die quick, because you pop more out every single dodge. I would use mirror images then ileap blurred frenzy and shatter, then summon iwarden/izerker dodge roll let them get their first attack off then cry of frustration. If anything is left standing after that just iwave to push the mobs away mirror blade then mind stab this whole string of combo can be done very quickly. Using this method though most mobs will come after you since you are in range to start, giving your clones time to not die unless it is through heavy aoe. You will get vigor on crit through traits and then I reccommend using a energy sigil on weapon swap you can pretty much dodge roll infinitely every 1-2 seconds.

Good info. Like I thought, the class starts out really weak, and just keeps getting stronger. Other classes don’t really feel like they have such a steep power curve, and level out much sooner.

I have to change my stance. At first I thought it was micro-management hell, but really it’s not that bad once you get used to it. You don’t really need to keep track of illusions like I originally thought, since they’re more fire and forget. The only thing I need to watch is how many I have out at a time for shattering.

Yeah as others have stated it really takes getting to 40 before mesmer really starts to feel like it comes into it’s own, to start at 40 I would put 5 in illusions minimum and then 20 dueling then distribute how you wish from there, the build I use is pretty much the standard 20/20/0/0/30 shatter build, you yourself will be very squishy but between the ability to dodge whenever and use blurred frenzy every 8 seconds as well as the kb from iwave you have plenty of survivability, if you need some cc support you can early on until you get the 20 in dom line filled in switch between precise wrack and the cripple on death trait, which also applies even if a clone is overwritten, it does not apply on shattering however. Gear for power, precision and watch mobs melt….it does seem counter intuitive to want to purposely put yourself in melee range with a squishy caster type of toon but blurred frenzy is amazing for both dmg and dmg negation. On the harder hitting bosses of course you can switch out focus for pistol if you like and pop the iduelist safely out of range of any aoe….staff is a great defensive weapon but ilock is pretty bland on anything except a boss fight with tons of conditions on it so I generally stay gs + s/f or s/p at least that way if my phantasms do go down and I am having trouble getting my clones into range for shattering I can still contribute some pretty significant dmg at range with the GS AA. This setup will easily get you into orr and still works there fine providing you are good with movement and positioning. As far as running dungeons with that setup it can be a little dicey at times if you get focused on or caught in a aoe you don’t expect but it is still not horrible, mesmer imo is by far the most survivable while still running “glass cannon” spec of the classes due to the nature of how it all comes into play especially once you get illusionary persona and shatters effect off you so you can use your distortion and diversion shatters even if you don’t have any illusions out..really helps for trying to rez someone especially if you just dropped a time warp on them. Mesmer is not a straightforward press one button to win class but it certainly can be one of the strongest professions in the game (yes even in pve, despite peoples complaints about dynamic farming in orr). Hope at least some of this helps and welcome to mesmerville hope you enjoy your stay and if you are anything like me you probably won’t leave.

Edit: This is by no means the only way to play and possibly not even the most effective, but it fits the style of combat I enjoy and I don’t struggle to use it (figured I should put in the disclaimer before someone else comes along and tries to rain on the parade lol)

Ugh…. You know, I’m really starting to like this class a lot. But I can’t stand how slow it is out of combat. It’s making the leveling process really NOT fun.

But that leads me back to one of my original issues with the class: illusions being killed too easily.

Practice weapon swapping on cooldown. This will significantly increase your clone generation rate. Realize: Mesmers rely the least out of any class on 1111111111 (unless you are primary staff).

You should have sufficient illusions for most situations.

Also, practice using basic defensive mechanisms for your phantasms. E.g. when the fight is about to get fast, drop a Chaos Storm on you + your illusions + the enemy. They will pick up Aegis and stuff which will let them survive twice as long. The bonus daze and chills and poison will make the mobs suck twice as much, so your illusions will last 4x as long as normal, etc.

GS knockback can be used similarly.

Pulling initial aggro and then kiting can also be used.

Deceptive Evasion is kind of a crutch. Shrug.