Guild Wars 2

Hi guys. I just got to 80 recently and I’m trying to find some good builds for doing dungeons. Is a phantasm build good for doing dungeons? Or would a shatter build be viable too? If there are other builds I’d like to here about those.

Thanks!

There’s many ways to play Mesmer and they all can do great in dungeons. I’d suggest you make a build towards the mechanics you like the most about the class.

I personally run a Retaliation build with Soldier stats.

If you don’t want to be a leech, wear full zerk and run 10-15-0-25-20.

Use Timewarp, and use it only when your team has stacked might up to 25, this means you may (a lot) have to use inspiration signet to stack them up that high.

Use condition removal mantra, and null field on bosses/trash were its needed

Use reflects (traited focus 4/5 and feedback) were needed.

Use inspiration signet unless you absolutely need that 3rd defensive utility slot, and use it smart. At the beggening on fights if you have an ele most of the time you will have 25 might stacked, after that runs out most groups will hover around 8-15, using sig when you have 13 stacks will bring everyone around you back up to 25 for that duration.

start leanring how to use focus 4 and gs 5 to “wall” trash and bosses for FGS rush and cleave for fast kill times.

Thats the jist of it.

you rely on phantasms, sword and gs attacks, always melee if you can. As you get better you should find yourself in melee most of the time (its more dps and puts you closer to buffs like combo fields etc…)

It may be harder for a new player to run full zerk, but you will be better for it in the end. I highly recommend using heal on crit or heal over time food to help with survivability.

Flinxe.1623:

Hi guys. I just got to 80 recently and I’m trying to find some good builds for doing dungeons. Is a phantasm build good for doing dungeons? Or would a shatter build be viable too? If there are other builds I’d like to here about those.

Thanks!

There’s really just a couple viable builds, all phantasm based.

Your two options are 0/30/0/25/15 and 10/30/0/20/10. I personally prefer the 0/30 one.

The weapons you’ll want to use usually are sword/focus + sword/sword. There are some very (very) few situations where either greatsword or scepter mainhand are appropriate, so have them with you too.

Generally, you use the focus for providing reflects along with feedback. If you’re in a situation where reflects aren’t necessary, you can swap out the focus for pistol….but honestly, I very rarely bother. Focus works fine.

You’ll usually want to run heal mantra, condition removal mantra, and mantra of pain, with feedback or some other utility more suited to the encounter. There are a few places where you might want to take the signet heal instead, or other things like that, so don’t be afraid to swap utilities around.

Your gear should be all zerker. This, however, can be a bit tough to play if you don’t know the encounters well. Feel free to toss in pieces of knights and cavaliers to boost your survivability as you learn more, and then you can replace them with more zerker gear as you get better.

Killua.8041:

I personally run a Retaliation build with Soldier stats.

Don’t do this. Please.

Is this the 0/30/0/25/15 build?

sirrealist.1360:

Is this the 0/30/0/25/15 build?

Yeah, something like that. You can play with your adept major in inspiration. Phantasm hp, glamour mastery, and mender’s purity are all valid choices depending on the situation.

You lose a good deal of dps going 0-30-0-25-15 instead of 10-15-0-25-20. % increase dmg only applies to illusions if the source specifically states its does, the grandmaster trait you are grabbing isn’t worth it all. You are losing 15% phantasm damage and 20% recharge for a negligible dps increase for your attacks not tied to phantasms. We already lag way behind other classes dps wise, and we lost a tons of group support with the TW nerf, no need to kitten our damage even further.

Zepidel.5349:

You lose a good deal of dps going 0-30-0-25-15 instead of 10-15-0-25-20. % increase dmg only applies to illusions if the source specifically states its does, the grandmaster trait you are grabbing isn’t worth it all. You are losing 15% phantasm damage and 20% recharge for a negligible dps increase for your attacks not tied to phantasms. We already lag way behind other classes dps wise, and we lost a tons of group support with the TW nerf, no need to kitten our damage even further.

I had read somewhere that the differences between the two are:
0/30/0/25/15 – 25% faster cooldowns on phantasms
10/30/0/20/10 – slightly more damage (3-4%)

Is this not true? One could argue that with phantasms on a faster CD, you could make up that 3-4% DPS loss. Can you provide a build link for what you are suggesting? I need a link b/c the major traits to choose aren’t always obvious to me.

Zepidel.5349:

You lose a good deal of dps going 0-30-0-25-15 instead of 10-15-0-25-20. % increase dmg only applies to illusions if the source specifically states its does, the grandmaster trait you are grabbing isn’t worth it all. You are losing 15% phantasm damage and 20% recharge for a negligible dps increase for your attacks not tied to phantasms. We already lag way behind other classes dps wise, and we lost a tons of group support with the TW nerf, no need to kitten our damage even further.

There’s a reason every speedclear guild runs 0/30/0/25/15 or 10/30/0/20/10, and it’s because it is the highest DPS build at the moment (aside from 30/30/0/0/10, which has much fewer reflects and is useful only in some situations).

20 in Illusions will be worth it once we hit the April 15 patch, which fixes Phantasmal Haste. It currently does not affect iWarden and iSworsdsman, the two best phantasms, so it’s a complete waste in taking it. On April 15, I’m betting that 0/30/0/20/20 will be the best new build.

30 in dueling is strictly better than 10 in Domination anyway. Our main damage is reflect based + crit based, so more crit chance and crit damage is critical. Moreover, the +12% damage from Empowering Mantras applies to your Feedback damage, which is very important for the situations where Mesmers excel.

Anyway, depending on how the numbers shake out with sigils and runes on April 15, this suggestion ~might~ be worth it after the patch— I’ll certainly be testing it out, so thanks for the idea.

Also, please do not use Greatsword. The offhand sword is much, much better for DPS because of how good Phantasmal Swordsman is. Suggesting using Greatsword when optimizing for DPS is just… wrong.

sirrealist.1360:

Zepidel.5349:

You lose a good deal of dps going 0-30-0-25-15 instead of 10-15-0-25-20. % increase dmg only applies to illusions if the source specifically states its does, the grandmaster trait you are grabbing isn’t worth it all. You are losing 15% phantasm damage and 20% recharge for a negligible dps increase for your attacks not tied to phantasms. We already lag way behind other classes dps wise, and we lost a tons of group support with the TW nerf, no need to kitten our damage even further.

I had read somewhere that the differences between the two are:
0/30/0/25/15 – 25% faster cooldowns on phantasms
10/30/0/20/10 – slightly more damage (3-4%)

Is this not true? One could argue that with phantasms on a faster CD, you could make up that 3-4% DPS loss. Can you provide a build link for what you are suggesting? I need a link b/c the major traits to choose aren’t always obvious to me.

He’s talking about a different build entirely (this 10/15 thing which I haven’t seen before). Your assessment of the difference between the two meta builds is correct, though. For absolute speed-clear groups, the 10/30 is better because bosses die before you can summon the third phantasm even if you have the cooldown traited. For most pugs or even most organized groups, 0/30 is better because it will help you get the third phantasm out quicker, which will indeed increase your DPS in the long term of the fight.

maxinion.8396:

Also, please do not use Greatsword. The offhand sword is much, much better for DPS because of how good Phantasmal Swordsman is. Suggesting using Greatsword when optimizing for DPS is just… wrong.

new players m8, and ya I forgot about how many bugs this class has lol.

I wonder has anyone did any hard testing on whether the extra 8%+ crit/multiplier is really more dps from reflections etc.. than the power +15% phant damage. I guess a lot of it would be subjective though depending the encounter.

Zepidel.5349:

maxinion.8396:

Also, please do not use Greatsword. The offhand sword is much, much better for DPS because of how good Phantasmal Swordsman is. Suggesting using Greatsword when optimizing for DPS is just… wrong.

new players m8, and ya I forgot about how many bugs this class has lol.

I wonder has anyone did any hard testing on whether the extra 8%+ crit/multiplier is really more dps from reflections etc.. than the power +15% phant damage. I guess a lot of it would be subjective though depending the encounter.

It’s easily far more, especially when you remember that phantasms inherit both precision and damage. By only going 15 into dueling, you’re losing 15% crit damage and 150 precision, which makes your phantasms hit far weaker.

maxinion.8396:

sirrealist.1360:

Zepidel.5349:

You lose a good deal of dps going 0-30-0-25-15 instead of 10-15-0-25-20. % increase dmg only applies to illusions if the source specifically states its does, the grandmaster trait you are grabbing isn’t worth it all. You are losing 15% phantasm damage and 20% recharge for a negligible dps increase for your attacks not tied to phantasms. We already lag way behind other classes dps wise, and we lost a tons of group support with the TW nerf, no need to kitten our damage even further.

I had read somewhere that the differences between the two are:
0/30/0/25/15 – 25% faster cooldowns on phantasms
10/30/0/20/10 – slightly more damage (3-4%)

Is this not true? One could argue that with phantasms on a faster CD, you could make up that 3-4% DPS loss. Can you provide a build link for what you are suggesting? I need a link b/c the major traits to choose aren’t always obvious to me.

He’s talking about a different build entirely (this 10/15 thing which I haven’t seen before). Your assessment of the difference between the two meta builds is correct, though. For absolute speed-clear groups, the 10/30 is better because bosses die before you can summon the third phantasm even if you have the cooldown traited. For most pugs or even most organized groups, 0/30 is better because it will help you get the third phantasm out quicker, which will indeed increase your DPS in the long term of the fight.

Thanks! I’m just learning dungeon clearing and getting better with mesmer (hit level 60 last night). I’m not sure if tomorrow I will still have my GM traits unlocked (a bit o debate about whether toons created before patch will be subject to new level reqs for GM traits). Anyway, is there a general strategy or rotation for these phantasm builds? I’m new to this idea (I’ve just been running staff/GS and using skills as I see then needed), but I’m trying to get better at the whole min/max thing.

Pyroathiest.4168:

Zepidel.5349:

maxinion.8396:

Also, please do not use Greatsword. The offhand sword is much, much better for DPS because of how good Phantasmal Swordsman is. Suggesting using Greatsword when optimizing for DPS is just… wrong.

new players m8, and ya I forgot about how many bugs this class has lol.

I wonder has anyone did any hard testing on whether the extra 8%+ crit/multiplier is really more dps from reflections etc.. than the power +15% phant damage. I guess a lot of it would be subjective though depending the encounter.

It’s easily far more, especially when you remember that phantasms inherit both precision and damage. By only going 15 into dueling, you’re losing 15% crit damage and 150 precision, which makes your phantasms hit far weaker.

Yes, I agree the 150 precision and 15% crit damage / Ferocity is almost enough to justify the 30 in Dueling. I’d have to run the numbers, but I feel like this is getting close to the bonus which 15% phant damage provides, even without taking Empowering Mantras into account (or extra reflect damage).

maxinion.8396:

Pyroathiest.4168:

Zepidel.5349:

maxinion.8396:

Also, please do not use Greatsword. The offhand sword is much, much better for DPS because of how good Phantasmal Swordsman is. Suggesting using Greatsword when optimizing for DPS is just… wrong.

new players m8, and ya I forgot about how many bugs this class has lol.

I wonder has anyone did any hard testing on whether the extra 8%+ crit/multiplier is really more dps from reflections etc.. than the power +15% phant damage. I guess a lot of it would be subjective though depending the encounter.

It’s easily far more, especially when you remember that phantasms inherit both precision and damage. By only going 15 into dueling, you’re losing 15% crit damage and 150 precision, which makes your phantasms hit far weaker.

Yes, I agree the 150 precision and 15% crit damage / Ferocity is almost enough to justify the 30 in Dueling. I’d have to run the numbers, but I feel like this is getting close to the bonus which 15% phant damage provides, even without taking Empowering Mantras into account (or extra reflect damage).

Wish we had dps meters instead of spreadsheets :\

Zepidel.5349:

Wish we had dps meters instead of spreadsheets :\

I’m hesitant to say “WoW”, but in WoW there were all kinds of plug-ins that would measure your personal DPS, party DPS, give you all kinds of info on how you’re doing and how optimal you are. I know plug-ins are a no-no in GW, but is there any way to actually see the game calc all this and provide it for you? I’m guessing a big fat “NO” b/c otherwise I would have heard about it by now.

sirrealist.1360:

maxinion.8396:

sirrealist.1360:

Zepidel.5349:

You lose a good deal of dps going 0-30-0-25-15 instead of 10-15-0-25-20. % increase dmg only applies to illusions if the source specifically states its does, the grandmaster trait you are grabbing isn’t worth it all. You are losing 15% phantasm damage and 20% recharge for a negligible dps increase for your attacks not tied to phantasms. We already lag way behind other classes dps wise, and we lost a tons of group support with the TW nerf, no need to kitten our damage even further.

I had read somewhere that the differences between the two are:
0/30/0/25/15 – 25% faster cooldowns on phantasms
10/30/0/20/10 – slightly more damage (3-4%)

Is this not true? One could argue that with phantasms on a faster CD, you could make up that 3-4% DPS loss. Can you provide a build link for what you are suggesting? I need a link b/c the major traits to choose aren’t always obvious to me.

He’s talking about a different build entirely (this 10/15 thing which I haven’t seen before). Your assessment of the difference between the two meta builds is correct, though. For absolute speed-clear groups, the 10/30 is better because bosses die before you can summon the third phantasm even if you have the cooldown traited. For most pugs or even most organized groups, 0/30 is better because it will help you get the third phantasm out quicker, which will indeed increase your DPS in the long term of the fight.

Thanks! I’m just learning dungeon clearing and getting better with mesmer (hit level 60 last night). I’m not sure if tomorrow I will still have my GM traits unlocked (a bit o debate about whether toons created before patch will be subject to new level reqs for GM traits). Anyway, is there a general strategy or rotation for these phantasm builds? I’m new to this idea (I’ve just been running staff/GS and using skills as I see then needed), but I’m trying to get better at the whole min/max thing.

Congrats on 60 in mesmer!

The basic idea is to keep mantras on utility as much as you can (generally Recovery, Resolve, Concentration) and Feedback. Each mantra gives you +4% damage with Empowering Mantras, which really brings up your DPS. When you’re below < 80, play around with what you want, but usually you’ll want Feedback incase of reflect opportunities. Even when you’re at 80, it’s helpful to sometimes swap out a mantra for something else if the situation calls for it.

Generally speaking, your play order is: summon iSwordsman (sword 5), swap to focus, drop iWarden (focus 5), engage target in melee with sword. You can close the gap with sword 3, but I find the gap closer there unreliable at best in PvE (it’s still worth using to get a clone out, which will apply vulnerability on hits). Drop focus 4 if you need reflections (if you have the VIII in Inspiration, this will provide reflections). Hide in the iWarden if you need reflections as well, if you’re using VIII in Inspiration. Use feedback if you need reflections which cover the party. Used sword 2, Blurred Frenzy, if you need an evade. Otherwise focus on auto-attacking till you can swap to sword. At that point, sword 5 should be off cooldown or close to off cooldown, so you can summon another Sworsdman. Continue to melee, using sword 4 and sword 2 as block/evade, and then dodging if you have to (you have vigor on crit, so you should have lots of dodges). Watch your phantasm count— you want it at 3 at all times. Prefer swordsman to wardens in most situations (so generally stay on sword offhand unless everything is on cooldown and you’re afraid you’ll need another phantasm).

Another popular start to fights is to use focus 4 near a wall, and then using it again. This will bunch up the mobs on the wall, allowing you to DPS them quickly. In that case, start with Warden, switch to sword, get out Swordsman, and get another Swordsman when it goes off cooldown

That’s the general playstyle. Depending on the situation, things can change. Say you’re fighting something that needs a ton of reflection. Then the right move is start with focus, cast iWarden, use Signet of Ether to bring your phantasm cooldowns back, and summon another iWarden. You can maintain 100% reflect uptime with this. Similarly, if you are just clearing trash, focus more on Wardens instead of Swordsmen because Wardens have AoE attacks.

One thing to keep in mind is that as a mesmer, you have insane defense. Sword 2, sword 4, and vigor on crit, means that you have a ton of active mitigation for damage. You can’t take a lot of hits because you have light armor, but you can definitely avoid those hits.

(It goes without saying that all of this assumes berserker gear, btw)

I’m also going to link this great guide from Chaos: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Guide-Where-and-When-to-Reflect/first#post2954490

It lists just about all the places where you can effectively use reflects in dungeons.
Knowing where to reflect makes everyone’s life much better, and is definitely something to be aware of as you play.

Wow maxinion, thanks for all the advice! It remains to be seen if I’ll lose access to GM traits tomorrow, but at least getting to 60 means I can keep my master traits (like DE!!!). I’m getting better and better with playing mesmer, and I feel good with my performance. I’m exited to get to 80 and really open up the possibilities.

This is my current build

I really like the flexibility of attacks/defense/shatter with the GS/Staff combo. I know it’s not ideal, but I’m only doing PUG story mode in AC/CM/TA for now. I just started using mirror images again because I’m enjoying experimenting with all the different shatters. I had blink there but idk, I’m too slow with targeting where I want to be that I find it’s more often a hinder than a help. I’m sure all I need is practice. I also JUST got my 10th pt in Illusions and picked IE because I want to see how staff clones will be starting tomorrow.

I know when I get serious I’ll need to get good with the 0/30/0/25/15 build, but for now I’m just experimenting. Staff condi build FTW!

sirrealist.1360:

Wow maxinion, thanks for all the advise! It remains to be seen if I’ll lose access to GM traits tomorrow, but at least getting to 60 means I can keep my master traits (like DE!!!). I’m getting better and better with playing mesmer, and I feel good with my performance. I’m exited to get to 80 and really open up the possibilities.

This is my current build

I really like the flexibility of attacks/defense/shatter with the GS/Staff combo. I know it’s not ideal, but I’m only doing PUG story mode in AC/CM/TA for now. I just started using mirror images again because I’m enjoying experimenting with all the different shatters. I had blink there but idk, I’m too slow with targeting where I want to be that I find it’s more often a hinder than a help. I’m sure all I need is practice. I also JUST got my 10th pt in Illusions and picked IE because I want to see how staff clones will be starting tomorrow.

Yeah, you’re going to want to ditch staff and go for sword/focus. Take those 20 points out of illusions and toss them into inspiration to trait the focus. You’ll also want to drop DE, it’s not necessary in PvE at all, in any way, and it will cause problems with overwriting phantasms. Instead of DE, trait your sword.

Going sword/sword sword/focus in dungeons isn’t as imperative for someone that’s leveling, but it’s good practice regardless, so I’d recommend starting to try that out to see how it goes. Sword/focus is a must though.

@Pyro: But, but, but… what about this build"?

Just kidding, I know this build isn’t viable for PvE.

Pyroathiest.4168:

Yeah, you’re going to want to ditch staff and go for sword/focus. Take those 20 points out of illusions and toss them into inspiration to trait the focus. You’ll also want to drop DE, it’s not necessary in PvE at all, in any way, and it will cause problems with overwriting phantasms. Instead of DE, trait your sword.

Going sword/sword sword/focus in dungeons isn’t as imperative for someone that’s leveling, but it’s good practice regardless, so I’d recommend starting to try that out to see how it goes. Sword/focus is a must though.

So something like this?

I wasn’t sure what traits to use in Domination line, but figured that even though I want my phantasms to stay alive, it doesn’t hurt to shatter them when target health is getting low, and an extra 20% on mind wrack is pretty good. Thoughts? Next 20 goes into illusions until I’m 80, have access to GM and can retrait?

sirrealist.1360:

Pyroathiest.4168:

Yeah, you’re going to want to ditch staff and go for sword/focus. Take those 20 points out of illusions and toss them into inspiration to trait the focus. You’ll also want to drop DE, it’s not necessary in PvE at all, in any way, and it will cause problems with overwriting phantasms. Instead of DE, trait your sword.

Going sword/sword sword/focus in dungeons isn’t as imperative for someone that’s leveling, but it’s good practice regardless, so I’d recommend starting to try that out to see how it goes. Sword/focus is a must though.

So something like this?

I wasn’t sure what traits to use in Domination line, but figured that even though I want my phantasms to stay alive, it doesn’t hurt to shatter them when target health is getting low, and an extra 20% on mind wrack is pretty good. Thoughts? Next 20 goes into illusions until I’m 80, have access to GM and can retrait?

Yeah, since anet is kittening leveling chars over, that’s pretty much the best you can do.

Pyroathiest.4168:

Yeah, since anet is kittening leveling chars over, that’s pretty much the best you can do.

You know, I actually really like the idea of having to go on mini-quests to unlock traits. I actually wish they were locking traits for all so I could do the little adventures. As it stands, I’ll probably try to get my hands on a list of all the trait-unlcoking quests so I can just go do them. As for extending out the level reqs for traits, while I do think that sucks for the Mesmer, I like the idea overall. Having something new to unlock when you get to 80 is cooler than having it since 60. IMHO, of course.

Here I got all fired up ready to rage about mesmer build dps comparisons for PvE, but then remembered, tomorrow’s patch will change everything anyways so fukkit, brb in few days XD

Happy to help Sirrealist!

@frifox: looking forward to figuring out the right new builds on patch day too

I don’t think it’ll change that much tbh, maybe we’ll go 0/30/0/20/20, if phanstamal haste is fixed, but again it’ll depend how long the fight last. At least, we’ll be able to switch traits as much as we want \o/ (I just hope we’ll be able to do some templates, to change builds quickly) I’ll probably switch between 10/30/0/20/10 – 0/30/0/25/15 – 0/30/0/20/20 – 30/30/0/0/10 – 25/30/0/0/15 (20/30/0/0/20?) and 15/30/0/25/0

Jeremlloyd.6837:

I don’t think it’ll change that much tbh, maybe we’ll go 0/30/0/20/20, if phanstamal haste is fixed, but again it’ll depend how long the fight last. At least, we’ll be able to switch traits as much as we want \o/ (I just hope we’ll be able to do some templates, to change builds quickly) I’ll probably switch between 10/30/0/20/10 – 0/30/0/25/15 – 0/30/0/20/20 – 30/30/0/0/10 – 25/30/0/0/15 (20/30/0/0/20?) and 15/30/0/25/0

Thanks for the insight Jerem~

I agree that those are the likely results— we’ll have to see how PH shakes out in practice. Being able to quickly switch between all of these is going to be wonderful though, even without build templates.