Guild Wars 2

well nobody knows hoe offten you get healed. if it is only every 10sec, it’s notthat strong

I think it will be the same as the warrior signet.

And I’m very happy with what i read so far a bout this healing skill. It looks awesome and I’m gonna have a lot of fun trying it out.

1 Think I missed on my mesmer is passive heal when using a phantasm build which we’ll get now.

I don’t care much but shatters as a mesmer to be honest, I just use them to finish low hp mobs or for an interrupt or to avoid damage depending on situation.

I just wish they would give confusion a boost. Having a confusion based heal would be pretty awesome in my opinion. Confusion is my fav aspect of a mesmer, kind of dissapointed that it’s pretty much useless in pve and weak in wvw as well.

Wow, this is a very, very strong passive heal. More than Warrior HS with 3 illusions it looks like.

2 things:

1. Any mesmer in a combat situation knows that illusions are not up for very long…. on any build.

2. Illusions and phantasms are not considered the same in skills/traits.

So really, this just fills the gaping hole in the mesmer class…. generally there has been no passive heal at all, like most other classes have.

Can someone shed some light on the info provided in the cast?

Heal is every 3s, and gave about a 4.5k heal on activate. Refreshed phantasm cooldowns (the actual summon skills). Didn’t catch if it refreshed the phantasm attack skills too.

Hackuuna.4085:

Heal is every 3s, and gave about a 4.5k heal on activate. Refreshed phantasm cooldowns (the actual summon skills). Didn’t catch if it refreshed the phantasm attack skills too.

Cooldown?

From what I’ve seen the coldown was 25 seconds.

Ticks are every 3 seconds
Cooldown is 35 seconds
Doesn’t heal without illusions
Normal heal around 4k
1illusion 550
2 ‘’ 750
3 ’’ 1100
Resets phantasm skills on use

My opinion? Only good in bunker builds.
Get a mesmer with staff, good condition removal and high healing power/toughness and gg, unkillable.
For phantasm builds, (or rather based on my own) this skill is gonna be useless. Your healing is your condition removal and the healing is just way too low with a way too long cooldown. Imagine poison on you and you gonna activate the skill. Sure, gg on damage, but seconds later you will die anyway cause of no healing and too less condition removal.

35s CD makes it only like 3-4x better than the new Necro one. Still much more looking forward to trying this one out.

If three illusions are up, you gain about 1000 hp every 3 seconds.
The cooldown is 35 seconds

I still see 1s cast 25s CD in my tooltip.

Where do you see 35s?

While all the people will be whining about PU and Phantasm Mesmers using the passive effect of the new signet the actual health per second is lower than when keeping Ether Feast on cooldown while 3 Illusions are up.

35 seconds? Jesus that’s insane!

Ok, I’ve seen 35s in the livestream PvP notes. So much for my taste with PvP and WvW in mind. In PvE might work well.

Just going to go out on a limb here. At 35 seconds the signet heal is near useless for any and all purposes except for PvE. 35 seconds is far too long in PvP to be without any healing of any kind, especially for the very weak burst heal it provides.

Ultimately, a failed implementation.

Windwalker.7421:

And I can confirm that you, sir, don’t know your kitten from a hole in the ground.

Sorry, these horribly ignorant blanket statements can not just be ignored. If you honestly think that ANet programmers, or pretty much any games programmer working for a competitive development house are anything remotely resembling lazy, you really need a reality check.

I bet almost none of the ANet developers have the time to play nearly as many hours of GW2 as you do, because they’re spending that time working on the game instead.

And people wonder why devs don’t spend more time with their fan base. Must feel really awesome to work 70+ hour weeks for months at a time, only to be called “lazy” by people who probably spend way too much time playing a game. (Your game! Which is the kind of irony that probably is what keeps them working.)

I’m a network engineer… it’s an in-crowd joke, not a negative blanket statement. You have a lot to do, so you want to spend the least amount of effort on each individual task possible and work in a highly efficient manner.
Re-arrange that slightly and it turns into “we’re a lazy bunch who does everything through the route of least effort/clicks/keystrokes/run scripts”.

Leaving that aside, I didn’t say it in an insulting manner in the first place, and backed it up saying that they will get the job done

We have very few skills that scale well with healing power, so it’d be nice if maybe this one did.

And I agree, unless the ticks are every 2 seconds, a 35 second cooldown is too long.

This is OP – resets EVERY phantasm skill. Combine with IC change, signet reduction, and remove 2 condi on use, and weapon CD reduction, and you can just spam out hard-hitting or utility phantasms all day. You could even afford to shatter your phantasms b/c they are as cheap as dirt now.

Glad I am levelling my mesmer b/c now it can be OP for 6 months before the next rebalance!

So explain me how you gonna survive without healing or condition removal with that op phantasms you talk about.

Edited: I have edited this because it seems that in the livestream demostration they show that the recharge is for ALL phantasms skills, weapons and utility.

35 seconds is entirely too long for any build. Even if you take the signet talent, that’s still 28 seconds, which is too long, even for a bunker build. It should have been 30 seconds, which would have made it a nice option for someone trying to make a Phantasm bunker mesmer.

BlackBeard.2873:

This is OP – resets EVERY phantasm skill. Combine with IC change, signet reduction, and remove 2 condi on use, and weapon CD reduction, and you can just spam out hard-hitting or utility phantasms all day. You could even afford to shatter your phantasms b/c they are as cheap as dirt now.

Glad I am levelling my mesmer b/c now it can be OP for 6 months before the next rebalance!

You just invested 35-65 points when really getting the stuff you mentioned just to make the heal “OP”. Not sure if this is reasonable.

Actually, SoE gets less appealing when going for IC and weapon traits because the Phantasm cooldown will be lowered anyway. Also, SoE is the worst healing skill for using Menders Purity because of the very long cooldown even when traited.

The active of the Signet is most likely only useful when using Phantasm utilities or when running a Signet heavy build so that picking up the Signet traits actually makes sense. You will also be extremely vulnerable when activating the Signet because the active heal is just aweful when considering the cooldown.

BlackDevil.9268:

So explain me how you gonna survive without healing or condition removal with that op phantasms you talk about.

iDisenchanter + iDefender: 16s and 24s CD, recharged on heal, heal also removes 2 condis.

iDuelist: 12s CD, recharge on heal use
iZerker: 20s CD, recharge on heal use

Spam out phantasms, LOS, let AI win: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgUQNAsaRlwzCqnUTmGbNJxZGQP6oPgdSFcdJF8O3A-jQCBYgCiYNJj+IiEIJjKAIBqIaslhFRjVbDT5iIqWKgIWGB-e

Also, the signet is 100% efficient in phantasm builds, as it ticks the passive while you are LOS, and wouldn’t normally pop your heal (for instance, to heal 3000 damage).

This heal is disappointing. But I guess we get a great utility signet that goes in healing slot.

EDIT: If it doesn’t recharge damage phantasms, its not even great utility.

BlackBeard.2873:

BlackDevil.9268:

So explain me how you gonna survive without healing or condition removal with that op phantasms you talk about.

iDisenchanter + iDefender: 16s and 24s CD, recharged on heal, heal also removes 2 condis.

Spam out phantasms, LOS, let AI win: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgUQNAsaRlwzCqnUTmGbNJxZGQP6oPgdSFcdJF8O3A-jQCBYgCiYNJj+IiEIJjKAIBqIaslhFRjVbDT5iIqWKgIWGB-e

Also, the signet is 100% efficient in phantasm builds, as it ticks the passive while you are LOS, and wouldn’t normally pop your heal (for instance, to heal 3000 damage).

Okay, so thats 2 utility skills. And what do you think the enemy will do once he’s seeing 3 phantasm out before the fight even started? You’re not fighting bots, you’re fighting real players. Someone smart enough would just run off because you’re or your phantasm are much slower anyway and get back within like what? 10 seconds? No healing, no condition removal and a worthless build.

Your damage output will be like 0. All the enemy got to do is dodge the iduelist by using V or just running out his range.

BlackDevil.9268:

BlackBeard.2873:

BlackDevil.9268:

So explain me how you gonna survive without healing or condition removal with that op phantasms you talk about.

iDisenchanter + iDefender: 16s and 24s CD, recharged on heal, heal also removes 2 condis.

Spam out phantasms, LOS, let AI win: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgUQNAsaRlwzCqnUTmGbNJxZGQP6oPgdSFcdJF8O3A-jQCBYgCiYNJj+IiEIJjKAIBqIaslhFRjVbDT5iIqWKgIWGB-e

Also, the signet is 100% efficient in phantasm builds, as it ticks the passive while you are LOS, and wouldn’t normally pop your heal (for instance, to heal 3000 damage).

Okay, so thats 2 utility skills. And what do you think the enemy will do once he’s seeing 3 phantasm out before the fight even started?

Of course you wouldn’t use the utility phantasms immediately (maybe the defender), but the enemy will either run, try to fight AI (and lose, as traveler rune gives good mobility to kite, along with other control skills) and die, or try to attack mesmer and fail b/c of dodges for days and constant AI damage. If he does kill the AI, its on a short CD, and the heal is always ready to crap out more on-demand.

Have you guys forgotten how easy 1v1 was on phantasm builds b4 they moved IC up? Well now you have IC, plus even more utility and ways to do damage. They also did their best so mesmers aren’t weak to condis anymore too (with little investment). What do you think you are weak to now?

Edit: you don’t pop the heal at the start of a fight, you pop it mid fight (preferably after using a utility phantasm), then go right back to kiting and letting AI win for you again.

Yes but how much more effective will this work than it already is? It’s not like you need your phantasm on such short cd to keep them up 24/7. Maybe against idiotic warrior builds, but then you would lack stun breakers most likely.
I think you’re forgetting the cap of 3 illusions max.

The build you posted already works without the signet. It’s not the signet making it op.

BlackBeard.2873:

Also, the signet is 100% efficient in phantasm builds, as it ticks the passive while you are LOS, and wouldn’t normally pop your heal (for instance, to heal 3000 damage).

As if you needed LOS for using the other Mesmer heals.
Not sure if you are trolling or not…

Health per second of the SoE passive appears to be lower than for Ether Feast. Ether Feast will only be less effective when you heal at a point where the amount healed is higher than the health you lost to this point.

BlackBeard.2873:

Have you guys forgotten how easy 1v1 was on phantasm builds b4 they moved IC up? Well now you have IC, plus even more utility and ways to do damage. They also did their best so mesmers aren’t weak to condis anymore too (with little investment). What do you think you are weak to now?

There is a pretty significant flaw in your thought process. The more the Mesmer uses his utility Phantasms the less damage he will deal. The weapon Phantasms actually benefit less from SoE because of the weapon swapping cooldowns. The opportunity costs of using the Signet also goes up because of the rather low cooldowns on the Phantasms since you are using weapon traits. You also have 10 trait points less to your disposal since IC was an Adept minor.

The improvements made to condition removals of the Mesmer in no way benefit the build you posted. The main source of condition removal is the iDisenchanter which can be easily killed. If you use the Signet for condition removal you are doing something wrong. 2 conditions cleansed every 28s is just horrible.

The build you posted lacks any form of Protection and has a minimal amount of stealth which will make it a lot easier to target and hit the Mesmer. You also lack Phantasmal Fury which is pretty important for Phantasm builds and you sacrifice 15% Phantasm damage for the cooldown of the Signet.

if i can get 2 defenders out and summon a phantom from weaponskill and have restorative mantras with mantra of pain, try to survive until the signet goes on passive…hmm…i need to lay down for a moment

The activation recharges ALL phantasms, both weapon and utility. This was demonstrated in the livestream.

Shadowkiller.6725:

if i can get 2 defenders out and summon a phantom from weaponskill and have restorative mantras with mantra of pain, try to survive until the signet goes on passive…hmm…i need to lay down for a moment

So you want to bore your enemies to death?

I personally might try the Signet in a clone spammer build because you are most likely to have 3 Illusions up all the time. I won’t use the active part of the Signet, though.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

The activation recharges ALL phantasms, both weapon and utility. This was demonstrated in the livestream.

Nobody denied that. But it is less effective for weapon skills.

• Weapon swap: You can’t instantly swap back. So when not running utility Phantasms you basically sacrifice your passive healing for one weapon skill.
• Weapon traits and IC: You can already reduce the cooldown of Phantasms by using those traits. The more of those traits you use the higher the opportunity costs of activating the Signet. Because you will safe less time.

Xaylin.1860:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

The activation recharges ALL phantasms, both weapon and utility. This was demonstrated in the livestream.

Nobody denied that. But it is less effective for weapon skills.

There were some posters above who thought that it only recharged utility Phantasms due to the post on Dulfy. I was just trying to correct that misconception.

Thanks Drarnor Kunoram I have edited my post to delete the Dulfy information.

Just watched livestream recording. Skill looks alright. I cant really say if you can call it op or not since there is counterplay and some risk in it using it. Healing depends greatly on how many illusions are out (no Illusions no passive healing), you will miss out on burst healing and active is not really that useful for alot of builds.

I guess phantasm builds will benefit greatly from it and condition builds certainly will benefit too because it adds more sustain. I dont see much use for it in shatter builds but thats just my impression from what i have seen so far.

Taking Phantasmal Defender might be a solid option with this skill. You can effectively control the opponents spike by either reducing it or making it more predictable, because they’ll have to kill the Phantasm first.

The challenge is managing the defender use with shattering

Good lord, blackwater mesmer will be unkillable. Do they think when they make these skills? Giving the class with the most active defenses the best passive heal in the game is madness. And why are they buffing passive ez mode builds like blackwater and phantasm instead of the actual skill based shatter specs?

Jabberwock.9014:

Good lord, blackwater mesmer will be unkillable. Do they think when they make these skills? Giving the class with the most active defenses the best passive heal in the game is madness. And why are they buffing passive ez mode builds like blackwater and phantasm instead of the actual skill based shatter specs?

I wouldn’t take this in blackwater. Just saying.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Jabberwock.9014:

Good lord, blackwater mesmer will be unkillable. Do they think when they make these skills? Giving the class with the most active defenses the best passive heal in the game is madness. And why are they buffing passive ez mode builds like blackwater and phantasm instead of the actual skill based shatter specs?

I wouldn’t take this in blackwater. Just saying.

I will absolutely take this on blackwater. You have 95% uptime of 3 illusions, have very long down-times between being attacked (during which you can passively heal to full), and you can always use for an emergency burst heal. Its not like blackwater can’t survive 35s w/o needing a heal (or being able to run). However, 90% of the time, this allows you to not even have to cast a heal (with a distinctive animation), allowing you to blend in with your clones even more.

BlackBeard.2873:

Pyroatheist.9031:

Jabberwock.9014:

Good lord, blackwater mesmer will be unkillable. Do they think when they make these skills? Giving the class with the most active defenses the best passive heal in the game is madness. And why are they buffing passive ez mode builds like blackwater and phantasm instead of the actual skill based shatter specs?

I wouldn’t take this in blackwater. Just saying.

I will absolutely take this on blackwater. You have 95% uptime of 3 illusions, have very long down-times between being attacked (during which you can passively heal to full), and you can always use for an emergency burst heal. Its not like blackwater can’t survive 35s w/o needing a heal (or being able to run). However, 90% of the time, this allows you to not even have to cast a heal (with a distinctive animation), allowing you to blend in with your clones even more.

And I’ll happily have more healing than you, and I won’t worry about it getting interrupted because I’m skillful enough to know to protect the cast. It’s just a not good heal for pvp. Full stop.

Pyroatheist.9031:

And I’ll happily have more healing than you, and I won’t worry about it getting interrupted because I’m skillful enough to know to protect the cast. It’s just a not good heal for pvp. Full stop.

My point is that ether feast is more healing if you use it off CD, assuming that you always have lost exactly that amount of life within the CD time. A passive heal ticks, even when you wouldn’t actually use ether feast b/c you wouldn’t get a full benefit. For instance, you take 3K damage, the signet heals you to full within 9s, ether feast would never get cast until you had 6K damage, for instance. If you take a 3K spike, you use feast and are at full with feast on CD. With signet, you just keep kiting for 9s, are still at full, without having to interrupt your offense/clone-spam deal, and have the burst-heal backup should you need it.

That is what I mean by it being more efficient: as long as you have any damage, you will get heals. With active heal skills, you have to decide when to use, can make a mistake, and its value will never be optimized.

Also, with signet, you can do your dance and stand around/hide in your clones better w/o revealing yourself by glowing/lifting your arms up for a heal. Its superior for confusion as well.

BlackBeard.2873:

Pyroatheist.9031:

And I’ll happily have more healing than you, and I won’t worry about it getting interrupted because I’m skillful enough to know to protect the cast. It’s just a not good heal for pvp. Full stop.

My point is that ether feast is more healing if you use it off CD, assuming that you always have lost exactly that amount of life within the CD time. A passive heal ticks, even when you wouldn’t actually use ether feast b/c you wouldn’t get a full benefit. For instance, you take 3K damage, the signet heals you to full within 9s, ether feast would never get cast until you had 6K damage, for instance. If you take a 3K spike, you use feast and are at full with feast on CD. With signet, you just keep kiting for 9s, are still at full, without having to interrupt your offense/clone-spam deal, and have the burst-heal backup should you need it.

That is what I mean by it being more efficient: as long as you have any damage, you will get heals. With active heal skills, you have to decide when to use, can make a mistake, and its value will never be optimized.

Also, with signet, you can do your dance and stand around/hide in your clones better w/o revealing yourself by glowing/lifting your arms up for a heal. Its superior for confusion as well.

You’re assuming that you’re constantly healing though. I spend a good amount of time at full hp, healing back to full when necessary. In that circumstance, you’re wasting almost all of the passive healing, at the sacrifice of the total burst heal you can obtain.

The whole Phantasm deal is honestly weird. I don’t want to play a pet class, if I wanted that I’d have gone with Necro or Ranger. :s

BlackBeard.2873:

Pyroatheist.9031:

I wouldn’t take this in blackwater. Just saying.

I will absolutely take this on blackwater. You have 95% uptime of 3 illusions…

I’m not sure I would take it, either. While the 95% certainly are exaggerated – like those perma-Vigor, perma-Protection and perma-Stealth statements recently floating around the forums – it is pretty easy to kill Illusions if your foe is not totally braindead. As soon as you face more than one enemy you are very unlikely to keep them up which will result in you not getting healed at all. Additionally, if you kill an enemy, your heal will just vanish into thin air because all Illusions on this enemy die as well. Have fun.

BlackBeard.2873:

My point is that ether feast is more healing if you use it off CD, assuming that you always have lost exactly that amount of life within the CD time. A passive heal ticks, even when you wouldn’t actually use ether feast b/c you wouldn’t get a full benefit. For instance, you take 3K damage, the signet heals you to full within 9s, ether feast would never get cast until you had 6K damage, for instance. If you take a 3K spike, you use feast and are at full with feast on CD. With signet, you just keep kiting for 9s, are still at full, without having to interrupt your offense/clone-spam deal, and have the burst-heal backup should you need it.

That is what I mean by it being more efficient: as long as you have any damage, you will get heals. With active heal skills, you have to decide when to use, can make a mistake, and its value will never be optimized.

Pyro already pointed out that you will lose a lot of efficiency as long as you are at max health when using the SoE. You are also assuming a pretty bad playstyle. Why would anyone use their heal if it would overheal? You are basically saying that every burstheal is useless because people are unable to properly time their heal.

shimmerless.4560:

If they wanted to make this at least mildly more sensible (along with a lot of other similar things), they could just change it so only clones count towards the heal, not phants/illusions. That way, players have to make a mild risk-reward choice: do they want stronger defense from their heal, or a more aggressive playstyle by summoning more phantasms at the expense of their heal.

I don’t think that this would help. Phantasm Mesmers would just not pick the heal. While I personally do not feel that Phantasm Mesmers need a buff you are just limiting the usefulness of the healing skill.

shimmerless.4560:

Right now there is almost never a reason not to use a phantasm cast and this will only become worse with the introduction of this signet.

Because Phantasms provide a not neglectable amount of damage even when not playing a Phantasm build. Why should you not cast the Phantasm? At the end of the day Mesmers are a (temporary) pet caster so a part of the damage will always be caused by Illusions.

Xaylin.1860:

I don’t think that this would help. Phantasm Mesmers would just not pick the heal. While I personally do not feel that Phantasm Mesmers need a buff you are just limiting the usefulness of the healing skill.

The only reason people wouldn’t take the heal skill right now is because it was “nerfed” down to something less crazy strong (I posted twice about the skill before learning that the proposed HP/s had been reduced and the active recharge increased). It is only a matter of numbers, not of concept, as the stucture of the heal itself is very appealing to passive-style Mesmers.

Xaylin.1860:

Because Phantasms provide a not neglectable amount of damage even when not playing a Phantasm build. Why should you not cast the Phantasm? At the end of the day Mesmers are a (temporary) pet caster so a part of the damage will always be caused by Illusions.

Why not indeed? This is precisely why phantasms are an issue, there’s little to no risk-reward for casting them and only the mildest of situational decision-making behind each cast (you might hold off if there’s heavy AoE, for example).

The change I proposed, which I would extend to things like iCelerity, Ether Feast and +%dmg per illusion, would give reason to pause before using your skills and open interesting windows for Mesmers to pursue and for foes to exploit. It would be a modest improvement over the current “turtling” that goes on with phantasms right now.

It would also I hope allow us to revert some of the less intelligent nerfs to the class, for example giving back 10-second Blurred Frenzy and making it a true distortion/invuln again.

shimmerless.4560:

The only reason people wouldn’t take the heal skill right now is because it was “nerfed” down to something less crazy strong (I posted twice about the skill before learning that the proposed HP/s had been reduced and the active recharge increased). It is only a matter of numbers, not of concept, as the stucture of the heal itself is very appealing to passive-style Mesmers.

I didn’t say the concept was bad. At least not of the passive. I really dislike the active. But at the end, only numbers matter. And luckily they didn’t make it pulse every second. Mesmers receive enough hate from other players already.

shimmerless.4560:

Why not indeed? This is precisely why phantasms are an issue, there’s little to no risk-reward for casting them and only the mildest of situational decision-making behind each cast (you might hold off if there’s heavy AoE, for example).

I do not see Phantasms as an issue per se. Maybe that is just due to my personal preference of how to play my Mesmer which is rather Phantasm unreliant in PvP (PvE is a completely different story). I do not mind that one usually re-casts Phantasms as soon as possible if you are going for straight damage. It is the same for all damaging spells.

It also is not completely true that there is no point of keeping the Phantasm ready. The iWarden is hold off quite frequently for its reflect. The iMage can be hold off for condition cleansing. The iWarlock is hold off untill conditions are stacked. Even holding off the iZerker can be beneficial if you need the cripple. Only the rather straight forward damage Phantasms (iSwordsman and iDuelist) should be re-casted instantly. Still, you might have to consider to hold it back. You might use Illusionary Leap soon. Or Phase Retreat. There already is situational decision-making. People might just not be aware of it.

The only way I see this working is with Mantra healing as a stop gap between the 35s cooldowns.

this isnt a pvp heal imo 3s Interval for a theoretical 1k heal(theoretical since 3 Illusions is never at 100% uptime not even close to that) and a 35cd is way to long to have no heal.
i see some niche builds like a gc phantasms that can start a fight with 3 up in no time (can do like 18k dmg first burst) but again with no heal for 35s its like any gc only dies faster.
or anyone running a signets build can make a small use out of it(like they said in the livestream you can have a 3 condi removal on heal with the new trait,hardly good on its on but if you run with more condi removal its nice, and have the heal cd on 28s,and have distortion ect ect.)

now if they change phantasmal defender/ phantasmal disenchanter to be good pvp skills (like i said over a year ago) and make them stand on their own meaning be the 4th Illusion out(not bound to fifo) and take no dmg then this heal can be nice and can open alot of new builds to play with form bunker to team support ect.
as it is now i don`t see myself using it, to much risk for a little reward.

I think, this skill should mostly be a benefit to phantasm mesmers in pve, allowing them after one mob dies to heal and recharge their phantasms.
But in general, I dont like the skill. If it will buff somehing in PvP, it’s phantasm builds and those definitifly didnt need a buff.
Besides, why another heal relying on the number of illusions out?