Guild Wars 2

Hi all!

So basically, i wanted Bard a lot more then Mesmer. Trough i admit, Mesmer does sound a but more unique, and is a brandmark of Gw, but still.
It all dephends on design…and not on the name, but you all know that, exspecially the devs. That is why i cant understand why we got a Mesmer.

But we got it, i am fine with this to, since i am still only considering to roll
( i alredy have an lv 40 one and leveled my pvp rank from 12 to 17 with him.)
a Mesmer for main class.
My real problem is, that Mesmer should be complementing the Bard, if it is not added.
Thief does Complement the Assasin, that was not added. It has a lot of skills and weapons and hints to the Assasin.
But Mesmer does not even hint to Bard.
Mesmers ware performers in Gw1 or Artists. And mostly musicians. And this does not even get hinted here. Atelast in combat or skills or weapons.
(besides sirens call, that is just an exuse for the animation,)

I personally miss a more musical theme or aspect of the Mesmer.
I recently saw the new Aion classes coming 4.0 and Bard looks really fun. It is exacly what Mesmer is not, but should be partly atleast.

A 2-3 weapon of this theme would be lovely. Something more then just 3-4 weapon each class wuld be a must have…there are billions of weapons out in the world.

I miss the “buffer” or support part of the bards. Yes Mesmer can support, but not in some fixed way, but random buffs and indirect help. (not even close to some class, that is supposed to be like warrior…Guardian insta full heal team -_-)
Why can some classes support better, without any effort, skill, trait or specialization at all, just by 1 click, and a Class that should be orinted araund it, can not even direct its help.
I understand the aspect of “denial” school, but lets not forget, it is also a class tuned to be inspiring and innovative, bot some warlock-illusionost rip of mix.

I am not sure how to put it. I dont want a full bard class. I just want to play a Mesmer, that is viable without Clones, Phantasms, if i so dersire, and have a decent musical attunement to it.

As an option, but not as a “lets take away what we currently have, and kitten of the players that like the current class, and add this instead”.
By that all this, i mean it should be added as pluss, to what alredy exist, so who wants to can chose this to.

I understand that you want to play music and what not. I cant help with that but mesmers have a crazy amount of support. You seem to think we don’t. A mesmer can put constant regen on everyone around them with a phantasm up and constant protection on yourself. You can place all kinds of boons on yourself and then share them with everyone around you. In full clerics gear you can put out an aoe 3000 heal every 4 seconds while spamming damage and that doesn’t include the 310 health a tick from the regen added by your phantasm. At the same time you can have phantasms up doing really good damage. Mesmers have a skill that can aoe cleanse conditions and have multiple ways to reflect projectiles to protect their group. We can also give aoe quickness or aoe stealth with our elites.

Im going to go out on a limb and say that in regards to support, memsers are on the upper end of the spectrum if speced properly and give amazing direct support.

Hmm. I might have been wrong abaut the no support. You are right, the mantra build offers good healing,.
I dont fully agree on the projectile reflection though. Mirrored feedback though lasts for 8 sec (that is long) but still could, not benefit my team really when it came to defend them from range. (It is still to short in pve atleast.)

But thats not the topic, i agree. Mesmer does have support. I should have say : It lacks the ways a bard could/should support.
Something like : Passive song aura, giving periodic random buff on nearby allyes.
Or a Harp phantasm confusing foes, or buffing allyes.
Stm like that.

Might as well say, the Mesmer lacks the original artistic concept of the class.

Nekroseth.5186:

Something like : Passive song aura, giving periodic random buff on nearby allyes.
Or a Harp phantasm confusing foes, or buffing allyes.
Stm like that.

Mesmers have a few ways to give random boons to themselves/allies, and can spread every boon on themselves with Signet of Inspiration (I think that’s the one).

And the torch phantasm confuses foes and grants retaliation to allies, which is, you know, exactly what you want Harp Phantasms to do.

I don’t want to sound rude,
But have you even played this class?

Ofc, i just play it rarely lately, exacly for the reson of the post.
And i did not pve that moch. I mostly pvp ed.

I also dont want to sound rude, but what i want to point out is not the game mechanic or system, but the theme more likely.
If you know what i mean.

Mesmers aren’t much like bards because Mesmers are not a class equivalent to bards. While a lot of mesmers in GW1 were drawn to the arts, it’s true, the actual skills had little-to-nothing to do with it (their theme has always been mind magic). It was just a quirk of a lot of people under the profession. Their concept is based around punishing enemies, controlling, and disrupting the flow of battle to their favor, and they’ve never been strong in direct ally support as much as support through manipulating the enemy.

Since Anet has spread the ideas of “damage” “support” “control” to all classes it’s possible to be more of an ally-buffer than before, but it’s not the basis of the class.

Nekroseth.5186:

I dont fully agree on the projectile reflection though. Mirrored feedback though lasts for 8 sec (that is long) but still could, not benefit my team really when it came to defend them from range. (It is still to short in pve atleast.)

Might as well say, the Mesmer lacks the original artistic concept of the class.

Hi!

Wanted to have my say on these two points, firstly, mesmer can provide amazing projectile reflection that virtually makes enemies kill themselves. This does not only go for pvp but pve aswell, when specced and armed properly. Of course, alot of people find the sword/focus combo lackluster in pve but it does have its times in the spotlight. The base of the spec for this goes along the lines of traiting for focus in the inspiration line and picking feedback (and possibly mimic depending on the scenario) as utilities. Dropping the phantasmal warden on a ranged enemy that spams skills along the lines of unload, or kill shot, only to see their HP go down like a sack of wet potatoes (lolwat), not to mention the combo capabilities of said warden, who is immune to projectile damage while going through its rotation, is phenomenal. In my eyes mesmer is THE reflecter of the game.

Secondly, I agree with the mesmer theme being a bit thin. There is so much we could bring in to give flavor to the class’ style, but that is up to the devs to decide. Personally I dont really find the bard theme to fit mesmers (I dont have the gw1 influence here since im a “newbie” so I wont touch that topic). Words that describe a bard are on the lines of cheerful, playful, happy and energetic in my opinion, whereas mesmer brings words like cunning, deceptive, graceful and powerful in my mind. I would love to see the mesmer evolve into the direction the ‘fan as weapon’ thread’s suggestion for a fan weapon go, more into oriental/asian direction in terms of movements and effects. To be fair the idea of an illusionary dancer is one of the best and fits the mesmer theme prefectly.

Kisarachan @ Underworld

I always thought of us as more theatricals, that being the focus of the class and it shows, but I understand your point, wanting to be more music inclined… But I just see it as a nice flavour that we could have, but acting was always the main point and I love that.

I think all of the classes have a “thinner” theme in GW2 than they did in GW1, because we’re not as restrained to a specific image, type of combat, or culture to be coming with five different races. It gives players more room to mold the profession in their image while still keeping dedication to a base idea.

Yea, I miss some of the theatrical elements of the mesmer’s background. Currently I see them more as a sword-dancer with illusions, even with staff/scepter. Because of that, and their lore, I question why mesmers weren’t put as adventurers and engineers put as scholars. Mesmers are by far mid/frontline fighters compared to engineers, and engineers are a clear profession ascribed to academia, study, theory, and (explosive) research.

Anywho, I agree with sentiments that the Mesmer is a very indirect support class, and in many ways that matter, uncontrolled. I guess it fits the chaos theme very well, but not the way I would like to play a class. I’d like more control of how and when the support happens.

I also wonder whatever happened to the inspiration third of the mesmer? It’s a little surprising we’re not capable of generating illusions that target allies and provide ongoing bonuses or simply cloning for them (doubt they should be able to target the caster). Mebbe ally-targeted illusions will be in a future update.

Mesmers are not Bards. Neither should they be.

Shout warriors and guardians come closer.

The bards in GW1 were Paragons. You know, the class that had Arias, Chants, even SONGS? Mesmers were always mind warpers which is translated into confusing foes with clones, I thought they did an excellent job with Mesmers in GW2 (always wondered why the GW1 creation screen showed a mesmer with a sword when clearly they were not supposed to use them in GW1).

That being said, I would not mind the return of both Paragon and Dervish classes although I think the combination of Guardian and Warrior was meant to replace them.

Super Goose.1467:

(always wondered why the GW1 creation screen showed a mesmer with a sword when clearly they were not supposed to use them in GW1).

That sword was always the biggest tease to me and I was eternally disappointed there wasn’t a lot of viability in a Mesmer ever fighting with one. I was glad we finally got them in GW2.

Now I just want a proper rapier sword skin.

Yeah, with a skill named Illusionary Riposte (and also the Warrior’s less cool regular Riposte) you would imagine there would be at least one sword skin that looked like a rapier or other sword fit for dueling.

There is a lyre offhand.. The Legendary Focus (The Minstrel). It can at least make your char look more ‘musical’.

Just an opinion, but I am a Mesmer, not a Bard.

Pick an other game maybe?

mes is fine as they’re but it does need mesmer exclusive armors that looks like it was made for mesmers and not half naked eles

I know, that many dont want the Mesmer to be a Bard, but those comments only show you didnt fully read my post. Because i dont want that eather.

I was just poiting out, that many players were actually unhappy, that we didnt get bard, but a Mesmer.
Whitch is the most unplayed class, still.
I could say a lot of resons for that, like the learning curve, or difficulty, but i dont care if ppl stone me i say it out laud : I think it is because the theme is not so good. A character like this should be a lot more indepth.
Yes i know most of the classes are shallow actually, not only Mesmer, but it shows on Mesmer a lot more.
Not sure if its is the “early” state of the game, or design flaw? Or they thout its enought?

• Prsonally would like to play a Bard, but NOT instead of the Mesmer. I am not a Jerk like so many here, who would take away a class others like, only to play sometging they want -_-*

Still say hope for the return of the Paragon. GW1 chants and refrains and choruses were pretty unique mechanics that hopefully will find their way into GW2 at some point. I honestly haven’t done any research on if ArenaNet is even going to produce more classes but if they do I hope Paragon or something similar is one of them.

You did say you wanted it to be more bard-like, though, both in function and theme, and we were pointing out that neither actually have anything to do with the concept of the Mesmer to begin with.

And maybe that was a complaint mostly seen back when they were revealed, but you’re the first I’ve seen about wanting a more bard-like class over the current Mesmer (and we’re hardly the most underplayed class—that honor goes to the Engineer).

Not to sound like a complete @ hole, but Mesmers were never meant to be “Bards” in Guild Wars (1) or 2… Ever….

As stated above in a previous post, the only thing close to bard in the Guild Wars universe were Paragons, using chants/songs to support the group.

I have no idea where you got this bard idea from in Guild Wars (1). Mesmers are suppose to be “Mental Mages”, not singers. I never had the feeling of singing in GW1, and still don’t in GW2. And I’ve been playing Guild Wars 1 (and still do sometimes) for more than 5 years.

Sure there was the “preview” of the Minstrel, but that’s just way too random.

If you played City of Heroes, Controllers/Dominators were basically the “mesmer” (especially if you used mental/psionic powers )
If you played Aion, then there really isn’t a mesmer counterpart, unless you count annoyance as a factor, then that goes to the Spiritmaster (but their more necro-like).

Sorry there is no “bard” class, but Mesmers should definetly NOT be the “bard” class, and more of a Mental Magician

yeah, i don’t know where you got that gw1 mesmer are musicians… never seen any hint about that in gw1.. Still i think bard should be a new class in the future. After paragon. But i have to say though, gw2 armors are sooo bad,, gw1 had style and looked awesome. I don’t get how these developers are going backwards. Maybe they stopped thinking when they as a company got enough money to not care anymore.

I see the mesmer closer to an hypnotist/arcane mage, the idea of it being some kind of performer never crossed my mind…

athuria.2751:

Mesmers aren’t much like bards because Mesmers are not a class equivalent to bards. While a lot of mesmers in GW1 were drawn to the arts, it’s true, the actual skills had little-to-nothing to do with it (their theme has always been mind magic). It was just a quirk of a lot of people under the profession. Their concept is based around punishing enemies, controlling, and disrupting the flow of battle to their favor, and they’ve never been strong in direct ally support as much as support through manipulating the enemy.

Since Anet has spread the ideas of “damage” “support” “control” to all classes it’s possible to be more of an ally-buffer than before, but it’s not the basis of the class.

Actually, Mesmers in GW1 were drawn to the arts, however these arts were NOT musical, they were Theatrical, being an illusionist this fits perfectly. I mean seriously, what thespian wouldn’t give an arm and a leg in order to be able to create an illusion, to make themselves look exactly how the character would and not even need a set because you could spin one in their mind?

@OP, mesmers have a significant amount of support, and they shouldn’t EVER be super similar to a bard, it makes absolutely no sense for them to be.

Super Goose.1467:

Still say hope for the return of the Paragon. GW1 chants and refrains and choruses were pretty unique mechanics that hopefully will find their way into GW2 at some point. I honestly haven’t done any research on if ArenaNet is even going to produce more classes but if they do I hope Paragon or something similar is one of them.

Well good news and bad news, Anet flat out said that the paragon and the cleric both stopped their individual teachings and instead combined them and thus the guardian was born, so i doubt we’ll be seeing paragon, HOWEVER, i wouldn’t be surprised if we see Ritualist or Dervish (or how they are 250 years in the future).

One line came to mind when I got the gist of OP’s point:

“Noooo! Smee, who is this impostor!?”

Bard!? What rubbish. The idea behind the Mesmer is quite original and brilliant as is, and that’s because it conjures many different concepts into a giant stew of epic. It derives it’s tone from magic itself; the mysterious, the unknown and the dwelling secrets. From chaos to illusion, so many wondrous notions.

But a class dedicated to basically strumming music. . . very dull and not Mesmer. =P

Durzlla.6295:

athuria.2751:

Mesmers aren’t much like bards because Mesmers are not a class equivalent to bards. While a lot of mesmers in GW1 were drawn to the arts, it’s true, the actual skills had little-to-nothing to do with it (their theme has always been mind magic). It was just a quirk of a lot of people under the profession. Their concept is based around punishing enemies, controlling, and disrupting the flow of battle to their favor, and they’ve never been strong in direct ally support as much as support through manipulating the enemy.

Since Anet has spread the ideas of “damage” “support” “control” to all classes it’s possible to be more of an ally-buffer than before, but it’s not the basis of the class.

Actually, Mesmers in GW1 were drawn to the arts, however these arts were NOT musical, they were Theatrical, being an illusionist this fits perfectly. I mean seriously, what thespian wouldn’t give an arm and a leg in order to be able to create an illusion, to make themselves look exactly how the character would and not even need a set because you could spin one in their mind?

It was largely theatrical, I know, but I seem to recall early Ascalon having a Mesmer who was inclined to poetry so I’m not going to totally discount that some of them took to music instead. Just like not all Necromancers were tied to the crypts.

Regardless, neither have anything to do with how the magic itself functions, which was my point.

athuria.2751:

Durzlla.6295:

athuria.2751:

Mesmers aren’t much like bards because Mesmers are not a class equivalent to bards. While a lot of mesmers in GW1 were drawn to the arts, it’s true, the actual skills had little-to-nothing to do with it (their theme has always been mind magic). It was just a quirk of a lot of people under the profession. Their concept is based around punishing enemies, controlling, and disrupting the flow of battle to their favor, and they’ve never been strong in direct ally support as much as support through manipulating the enemy.

Since Anet has spread the ideas of “damage” “support” “control” to all classes it’s possible to be more of an ally-buffer than before, but it’s not the basis of the class.

Actually, Mesmers in GW1 were drawn to the arts, however these arts were NOT musical, they were Theatrical, being an illusionist this fits perfectly. I mean seriously, what thespian wouldn’t give an arm and a leg in order to be able to create an illusion, to make themselves look exactly how the character would and not even need a set because you could spin one in their mind?

It was largely theatrical, I know, but I seem to recall early Ascalon having a Mesmer who was inclined to poetry so I’m not going to totally discount that some of them took to music instead. Just like not all Necromancers were tied to the crypts.

Regardless, neither have anything to do with how the magic itself functions, which was my point.

Well poetry and writing kinda go hand in hand with theatrics because of the same theme, and they can use the illusions the same way, to kinda bring their imagination to life, which is one thing just about all mesmers share, because there are also those that want to just twist people to their will and make them suffer….

but that’s besides the point…

Use spell correct.

their underwater combat is bard sadly.

@OP

I have to admit, I agree with your point but I disagree with the details of how you go about saying it.

Overall, I disagree with your post due to it jumping around and lacking a concise “I dislike it for this” which is fine, because you dislike it for many reasons. That, however, causes me to have to disagree since I don’t agree with everything you wrote.

I do agree that Mesmers have fallen off of the original concept, however, they were always people who played with others’ minds, be it through music or spells (although the spells did hint towards music).

I don’t mind playing my Mesmer as a deceptive battle-mage, however, I would like them to have elegance and grace, something they lack. I would also like to see a bit more of Wastrel instead of just in traits…

Leo Paul.1659:

There is a lyre offhand.. The Legendary Focus (The Minstrel). It can at least make your char look more ‘musical’.

do re mi