(edited by StormHawk.9862)
Optimal Mesmer WvW Trait Build
You’re commanding, you’re not going to do damage.
See, here’s the thing, and this is why you don’t command on a mesmer. If you want to do any damage in WvW (and you still won’t even do 10% of what an ele does effortlessly) you have to bend your build over backwards to be specifically designed to do any damage, whereas a guardian can just spam 1 on a staff and do just fine.
Doing this means you don’t have a build that survives.
If you want to command, you need to focus on surviving. Surviving and being able to lead a group are your first priorities, with everything else coming far behind. You say that you have the skill to stay alive and survive because you’re experienced? Sorry, but that’s simply not true. A commander wades into the fights first. They break through the hammer train. They get hit with everything. The only way you’re going to survive that on a mesmer (that doesn’t have good access to prot or aegis) is by going absolute full and total tank.
tl;dr: You must go full tank or you will fail miserably.
There was a similar thread a few months ago:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Commander-Mesmer/first#post4657198
I still stand by what I said then, namely a 0/6/0/2/6 — triumphant or mantra + IP build with veil, mantra stability/heal, and illusion signet (no blink).
If you want to do some damage you want to have a mix of sentinel’s and knight’s (precision for vigor on crit).
You must go full tank or you will fail miserably.
wait, so go full tank can survive in that situation?!
You’re commanding, you’re not going to do damage.
See, here’s the thing, and this is why you don’t command on a mesmer. If you want to do any damage in WvW (and you still won’t even do 10% of what an ele does effortlessly) you have to bend your build over backwards to be specifically designed to do any damage, whereas a guardian can just spam 1 on a staff and do just fine.
Doing this means you don’t have a build that survives.
If you want to command, you need to focus on surviving. Surviving and being able to lead a group are your first priorities, with everything else coming far behind. You say that you have the skill to stay alive and survive because you’re experienced? Sorry, but that’s simply not true. A commander wades into the fights first. They break through the hammer train. They get hit with everything. The only way you’re going to survive that on a mesmer (that doesn’t have good access to prot or aegis) is by going absolute full and total tank.
;dr: You must go full tank or you will fail miserably.
My friend goes half damage and half tank though with knight and the other one that gives power ferocity and vit.. And he survives
You’re commanding, you’re not going to do damage.
See, here’s the thing, and this is why you don’t command on a mesmer. If you want to do any damage in WvW (and you still won’t even do 10% of what an ele does effortlessly) you have to bend your build over backwards to be specifically designed to do any damage, whereas a guardian can just spam 1 on a staff and do just fine.
Doing this means you don’t have a build that survives.
If you want to command, you need to focus on surviving. Surviving and being able to lead a group are your first priorities, with everything else coming far behind. You say that you have the skill to stay alive and survive because you’re experienced? Sorry, but that’s simply not true. A commander wades into the fights first. They break through the hammer train. They get hit with everything. The only way you’re going to survive that on a mesmer (that doesn’t have good access to prot or aegis) is by going absolute full and total tank.
tl;dr: You must go full tank or you will fail miserably.
Ok fine and then what traits do you recommend
a few notes:
- notice the food buff (the stone is probably expensive, I didn’t check)
- your sword phantasm is useless, use it before the regroup to put it on cooldown, it has the same cooldown of Guardian’s Empower, so you’ll know when your empowers are back from cooldown
- after using the sword phantasm, switch to staff, go on the regroup and recharge your mantras
- your untraited Chaos Storm has a similar CD to necro wells, so you know when your well spike is back off CD
- drop Chaos Storm on the spike, apply Chaos Armor and switch back to Sword
- 1111111 (autoattack) and BF if you get caught in aoe
Caos Danzante – [So] Shellfish WvW guild ( videos )
Make WvW Eventful! – WvW, 4 years in
Yes, I have 5 lv 80 mesmers – Funny Puns
Make WvW Eventful! – WvW, 4 years in
Yes, I have 5 lv 80 mesmers – Funny Puns
a few notes:
- notice the food buff (the stone is probably expensive, I didn’t check)
- your sword phantasm is useless, use it before the regroup to put it on cooldown, it has the same cooldown of Guardian’s Empower, so you’ll know when your empowers are back from cooldown
- after using the sword phantasm, switch to staff, go on the regroup and recharge your mantras
- your untraited Chaos Storm has a similar CD to necro wells, so you know when your well spike is back off CD
- drop Chaos Storm on the spike, apply Chaos Armor and switch back to Sword
- 1111111 (autoattack) and BF if you get caught in aoe
Oh alright thanks. But how is the sword phantasm useless??
And uh anyone else have a trait build? Need as many commander builds I can get so I can choose which I like. I’d prefer it if I stayed wit my main weapons.
(edited by StormHawk.9862)
Oh alright thanks. But how is the sword phantasm useless??
It’s a slow moving, weak, stupid AI that might or might not get one attack off on a single target before dying. It is completely useless in WvW group fights.
Caos Danzante – [So] Shellfish WvW guild ( videos )
Make WvW Eventful! – WvW, 4 years in
Yes, I have 5 lv 80 mesmers – Funny Puns
Make WvW Eventful! – WvW, 4 years in
Yes, I have 5 lv 80 mesmers – Funny Puns
As far as I’m concerned, the best way to command as a mesmer is to focus on ranged combat and get yourself some players who can follow targeting instructions without needing the tag. Buuuut…
1. Bad players can’t do that well. Sometimes it’s a big ask to even get them partied up and listening in Teamspeak/Mumble.
2. Most good WvW players have lots and lots of experience doing hammertrain and focusing on the tag. While they could adapt to something else, this does put them in a bit of a Michael-Jordan-playing-baseball kind of situation. Hardly ideal.
That said, if you’re in a WvW tier where 12 people is a zerg, you could probably get away with commanding on anything. Basically just read advice for havoc groups.
Nemain The Eyeless · [JOY] · Tarnished Coast · http://tcwvw.com
Alright, thanks for everyone’s input about commanding, however I still need some builds, so please post.
Alright, thanks for everyone’s input about commanding, however I still need some builds, so please post.
You’ve been given a lot of information, tips, and advice in this thread. Instead of just demanding that people make builds for you, why don’t you try and come up with something all by yourself, and then we can give you further feedback on what you make.
Alright, thanks for everyone’s input about commanding, however I still need some builds, so please post.
You’ve been given a lot of information, tips, and advice in this thread. Instead of just demanding that people make builds for you, why don’t you try and come up with something all by yourself, and then we can give you further feedback on what you make.
I am thankful for what information everyone has given and have never demanded a build, so please don’t say that. The reason I’m asking for a build is because I’ve pondered so many ideas, and if you read the initial post, I believe I am overthinking it, but if you don’t want to suggest one, it’s fine.
Alright, thanks for everyone’s input about commanding, however I still need some builds, so please post.
You’ve been given a lot of information, tips, and advice in this thread. Instead of just demanding that people make builds for you, why don’t you try and come up with something all by yourself, and then we can give you further feedback on what you make.
I am thankful for what information everyone has given and have never demanded a build, so please don’t say that.
I mean…
however I still need some builds, so please post.
tl;dr: gimme an optimal trait build
So there is that…
The reason I’m asking for a build is because I’ve pondered so many ideas,
So then take one of those ideas and make it into a build. It’s not like the first build you come up with must be the one that you will use for the next year. Take those ideas, consider what you want to do, how you want to do it, and make a build that you think fits. Post it here, and see if people feel that it does what you want it to do.
There’s a thread already bopping around in this forum where someone’s working on a fairly tanky mantra-heal Triumphant Distortion build. You could try their latest as a starting point. (Though if you look at the videos you’ll notice they’re not rushing into the thick of things.)
Nemain The Eyeless · [JOY] · Tarnished Coast · http://tcwvw.com
Alright, thanks for everyone’s input about commanding, however I still need some builds, so please post.
You’ve been given a lot of information, tips, and advice in this thread. Instead of just demanding that people make builds for you, why don’t you try and come up with something all by yourself, and then we can give you further feedback on what you make.
I am thankful for what information everyone has given and have never demanded a build, so please don’t say that.
I mean…
however I still need some builds, so please post.
tl;dr: gimme an optimal trait build
So there is that…
The reason I’m asking for a build is because I’ve pondered so many ideas,
So then take one of those ideas and make it into a build. It’s not like the first build you come up with must be the one that you will use for the next year. Take those ideas, consider what you want to do, how you want to do it, and make a build that you think fits. Post it here, and see if people feel that it does what you want it to do.
Alright, but just so you know the only reason I said “gimme a build” is because it was the tldr, so i had to make it short, if they didn’t want it to sound mean, they should read the full, even though it wasn’t intended mean.
There’s a thread already bopping around in this forum where someone’s working on a fairly tanky mantra-heal Triumphant Distortion build. You could try their latest as a starting point. (Though if you look at the videos you’ll notice they’re not rushing into the thick of things.)
Can you provide a link to that thread or videos? I can’t seem to find it unless you’re talking about Menaka’s TD phantasm-mantra build.
Anyways, copypasting what I said in a similar thread a few months back because OP seems to have skiped over the link I posted earlier:
In general, a commander should run a very selfish build; this means skipping out on all glamours in favor of more selfish utilities except veil/portal. Veil/Portal is the exception because theoretically there is no one more coordinated/reliable than yourself that can drop it.
This is the best build I can come up with maximizing invulnerability. A valid variation would be to use Harmonious mantras instead of Triumphant Distortion if you really need the extra reliable stability/condi clear.
Some notes on the build:
- Gearing is Nomad’s/Knights. You need a decent amount of precision for to proc vigor consistently.
- Energy sigils are a must. I chose cleansing sigils so you aren’t as pressured to pop the mantra heal inefficiently to get rid of a immob or something.
- Most of your damage/tagging will come from dodge (DE) + IP Shatter.
- I believe mantra is the most ideal heal for commanding. Regroups provide time to recharge it. It also synergizes well with Adventurer runes (extra dodge on heal).
- Focus should be fine instead of torch if you’re not being pressured.
- No reflects. A commander should not run reflects because of funny interactions with necro’s dark path.
- Although you probably won’t need to because you have stability mantra, remember that distortion can act as stability.
About Staff and effective usage of Phase Retreat
Some may disagree with my choice of staff because you should avoid using phase retreat during an engagement because it makes you harder to follow. Here is my justification of using a staff regardless:
- You can still phase retreat inside water fields to top off during regroups
- With this build, when you are pulled by an engi, a combination of stability mantra -> torch stealth -> phase retreat will quickly get you out of danger.
- Staff is still the best defensive weapon available with chaos armor/storm
By the way, I would avoid trying to do cheeky micro with phase retreat where you about-face as you engage head-on into the enemy zerg and phase retreat to “skip past” their hammer train and avoid damage. The video lag makes pulling off this maneuver reliably difficult. Furthermore, I believe you aren’t able to turn your character if you become immobilized.
Here is a build i made up that focuses on tankyness but does have some power.
Overall i feel mesmer is not really great for commanding but seems like it would be something fun to do every once in awhile. Personally i would never try doing this but to each their own. If i absolutely had to command and had the money for the armor i would probably do something like so. . .
Im not really good at theory crafting so please don’t rip it apart too badly. Im mostly backline harass or glamour support as a mesmer so im not used to a) creating builds and b) playing tanky.
Now an attempt to explain this build.
Weapons are Sw/Focus + Staff. Sword main hand for obvious reasons. Focus because it allows you to control the enemy alittle via cripple and pulls. Pistol and Sword are more for 1v1 or roaming IMHO which leaves us with torch or focus. Torch i think is a viable alternative since you can use it to blind the front line as you guys clash and the phantasm might live long enough to get some confusion/retal out. Either or i feel would work, just a matter of preference.
I chose staff for the second b/c of chaos storm and chaos armor. And b/c i have a personal preference for the staff. But some perks are being able to lay down chaos storm and have your hammer train/blasts go through it and give everyone chaos armor which is pretty nice.
Utilities:
mantra of recovery for heals and proccing mender’s purity for the condi cleanse.
Mantra of concentration for stun break/stability when going through hammer trains/stuns/cc.
The next two utilities really is up to you. I personally would go veil and portal cause veil is amazing for setting up and portal because i’ve always enjoyed portal plays and their funny fails when it completely goes wrong.
For the elite you can do w/e. I’ve heard timewarp makes you take extra damage now but i haven’t heard any confirmation on it so i left it there.
Traits are 0/6/4/4/0
in Dueling pick up the lower cd mantra trait and DE. Then triumphant distortion cause it works well in zergs.
In chaos i picked up devilitating dissipation cause illusions will be dying as you dodge through the zergs. This will give the 5 enemies condis, hopefully weakness. for the last trait you can pick up chaotic dampening if you want to play more defensive with staff and have more chaos armor uptime or you can pick up bountiful interruption and hope that you can get interrupts on the front line that will be loaded with stability.
Inspirationi picked up mender’s purity and restorative mantras for condi clears and extra healing since you will be on the front line. i would personally keep mender’s purity but the second trait can be changed to more glamour based or less cd for your focus. or moved around entirely. your choice.
Armor
mostly sentinel. You said you wanted tanky with some attack so i went with sentinels instead of say nomads. I did not go PTV because i feel that staying alive is more important than damage and as a mesmer that will be difficult as a front line. But if you feel that you are experience enough go for PTV for the extra attack. Knight’s trinkets for some toughness but also precision. This is for the vigor uptime which with this build you will have at least 60% vigor uptime from that trait alone.
Sigil:
Obviously energy on both weapons. I then chose something not so commonly seen but something that i seem to have growth a liking to which is superior sigil of stamina. This is actually really nice in zerg fights similar to how triumphant distortion works but without an ICD. Every time an enemy dies, you get 2 full dodges again. If having energy + this sigil seems overkill switch it out for something. On the staff i would go with bloodlust for some more damage. Apart from the two energy sigil they can be changed around pretty easily.
At the very least i hope i gave you something to work off of. Again i dont consider myself an amazing theory crafter but wanted to see if i could help a bit. If this build is not anything close to what you were looking for feel free to disregard it. It won’t hurt my feeling… i promise. looks at stormhawk with puppy eyes
Here is a build i made up that focuses on tankyness but does have some power.
Overall i feel mesmer is not really great for commanding but seems like it would be something fun to do every once in awhile. Personally i would never try doing this but to each their own. If i absolutely had to command and had the money for the armor i would probably do something like so. . .Im not really good at theory crafting so please don’t rip it apart too badly. Im mostly backline harass or glamour support as a mesmer so im not used to a) creating builds and b) playing tanky.
Now an attempt to explain this build.
Weapons are Sw/Focus + Staff. Sword main hand for obvious reasons. Focus because it allows you to control the enemy alittle via cripple and pulls. Pistol and Sword are more for 1v1 or roaming IMHO which leaves us with torch or focus. Torch i think is a viable alternative since you can use it to blind the front line as you guys clash and the phantasm might live long enough to get some confusion/retal out. Either or i feel would work, just a matter of preference.
I chose staff for the second b/c of chaos storm and chaos armor. And b/c i have a personal preference for the staff. But some perks are being able to lay down chaos storm and have your hammer train/blasts go through it and give everyone chaos armor which is pretty nice.Utilities:
mantra of recovery for heals and proccing mender’s purity for the condi cleanse.
Mantra of concentration for stun break/stability when going through hammer trains/stuns/cc.The next two utilities really is up to you. I personally would go veil and portal cause veil is amazing for setting up and portal because i’ve always enjoyed portal plays and their funny fails when it completely goes wrong.
For the elite you can do w/e. I’ve heard timewarp makes you take extra damage now but i haven’t heard any confirmation on it so i left it there.
Traits are 0/6/4/4/0
in Dueling pick up the lower cd mantra trait and DE. Then triumphant distortion cause it works well in zergs.
In chaos i picked up devilitating dissipation cause illusions will be dying as you dodge through the zergs. This will give the 5 enemies condis, hopefully weakness. for the last trait you can pick up chaotic dampening if you want to play more defensive with staff and have more chaos armor uptime or you can pick up bountiful interruption and hope that you can get interrupts on the front line that will be loaded with stability.
Inspirationi picked up mender’s purity and restorative mantras for condi clears and extra healing since you will be on the front line. i would personally keep mender’s purity but the second trait can be changed to more glamour based or less cd for your focus. or moved around entirely. your choice.Armor
mostly sentinel. You said you wanted tanky with some attack so i went with sentinels instead of say nomads. I did not go PTV because i feel that staying alive is more important than damage and as a mesmer that will be difficult as a front line. But if you feel that you are experience enough go for PTV for the extra attack. Knight’s trinkets for some toughness but also precision. This is for the vigor uptime which with this build you will have at least 60% vigor uptime from that trait alone.Sigil:
Obviously energy on both weapons. I then chose something not so commonly seen but something that i seem to have growth a liking to which is superior sigil of stamina. This is actually really nice in zerg fights similar to how triumphant distortion works but without an ICD. Every time an enemy dies, you get 2 full dodges again. If having energy + this sigil seems overkill switch it out for something. On the staff i would go with bloodlust for some more damage. Apart from the two energy sigil they can be changed around pretty easily.At the very least i hope i gave you something to work off of. Again i dont consider myself an amazing theory crafter but wanted to see if i could help a bit. If this build is not anything close to what you were looking for feel free to disregard it. It won’t hurt my feeling… i promise. looks at stormhawk with puppy eyes
Oh, I actually kinda like the build, thanks for all the information you provided as well, I’m gonna try and mess around with it. Thanks everyone for your ideas.
Hopefully it works as intended. I know from testing other people’s builds that even if it looks good on paper it doesn’t work as well in real time.
Best of luck to ya!
oh also i messed up in the build link. Deceptive evasion should be used in stead of the +toughness on channeling mantra to make full use of debilitating dissipation in zerg. Also a good reason to have a bunch of energy recovery sigils since you get more dodges = more clones = more clones dying = (hoepfully) more weakness/vulnerability on energy front lines
Well if your building to command as Mesmer I’ll assume its large groups of 20+ players. Anything less and just run a havoc/roaming build.
Here is my full Zerg-Herder build
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAR8dlknpMtNqxYNcrNitBZyLUiTmiVU6AMsSC-TFyHABns/wPK/aSJYtXEg9U/BgHAwX6GA+IAQKAm0ZB-w
Switch in portal as needed and if you find yourself using portal and veil often swap out medics feedback for glamour recast. I usually don’t keep portal on my bar but as commander it maybe harder for you to break out of combat and swap so you might want it always on.
I would also be a total kitten about my group if Commanding . Aiming for 2 guard,1 war,1 ele, and me. Give me all the boons and all the cleanses. I guess you could go a step further and choose Sentinel gear over Soldiers but HP already seems high enough. Good luck commanding can be rough no matter the Profession and Mesmer would not be in my top 3 for sure.
(edited by Ballads.2509)