Guild Wars 2

The PU condition build set is very strong. You do have several misconceptions with it, such as phantasms actually doing damage, but it is a strong set. It can be beaten with a well played phantasm build in a 1 on 1 situation. I have no idea how I’d beat it on a non-Mesmer.

I think it really depends on the builds/professions you are up against. The truth of the matter is this build allows the Mesmer to survive in an environment that has become so heavily laden with conditions/stuns that without the stealth they become sitting ducks.

No one is fooled by clones anymore when they can see the real Mesmer dodging /strafing / casting/ backwards walking, so shatter Mesmers, while not a weak build, is just not as great as it was a year ago.

If you run the math I believe the Mesmer can (with traits + torch) stealth about once every 10-15 seconds averaged out. Of course it can be chained together but then they will have longer periods of no stealth.

Not sure what you mean by “stealth through reveal” as I have never seen that happen to me or anyone else.

Builds that I have trouble with while running a PU/condition build are:
1. Necros
2. Engineers
3. Anything with strong condition application, since mesmers have only active condition removal abilities that require traits/utility slots, nothing passive.
4. Anything that has decent AoE
5. Unkillable healing warriors, usually a stalemate.

Also for WvW (should be clear that is what I am talking about in this post) the mobility is terrible, and if you get caught by a larger group you will not escape unless you have multiple stealth skills off cooldown, since Mesmers have, with the exception of blink, no gap increasers.

That’s my take on it anyways. A strong build, but unkillable? My history (for what it’s worth) would say otherwise.

“Not sure what you mean by “stealth through reveal” as I have never seen that happen to me or anyone else.”

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Decoy
“Applies a distinct Decoy effect that is different from normal stealth. As such, it can be used while revealed and can be active at the same time as regular stealth, but will not stack in duration.”
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Desperate_Decoy
“Grants stealth for 3 seconds regardless of revealed. "

decoy (4s), torch offhand stealth(4s), mass invisibility(6s), veil(3s), desperate decoy(4s)…
21 seconds of stealth potentially.

The two professions I use in sPvP/tPvP are Mesmer and Necro, I play a power interrupt Mesmer and have no problems dealing with PU mesmers, hell I don’t even have any condition cleansing on my Mesmer and still do ok. I run power builds on my necro to and again, don’t have that much of a hard time dealing with PU Mesmer builds. But they are easy to counter once you understand how they apply their damage.

WvW is slightly different as you have a lot more room to move around so PU builds are harder to counter in WvW than they are in sPvP. I still run power/zerker builds for WvW and PU builds in themselves are not over the top, it’s this ridiculous condition meta that’s making various professions too powerful.

If your looking for a counter class for PU mesmers, either go full zerk burst and down them before they get a chance to stack up conditions on you (this tactic applies to any condition profession you face) or counter with another cheese condition build profession, either Engi, Necro, Ranger, Warrior or even P/D thief will do, basically anything that can apply cheesy conditions fast.

One good piece of advice, don’t spam AoE on the Mesmer & clones, the build is based around the clones being killed and applying various conditions on death, so try and focus damage on the Mesmer, just watch out for scepter 2 block and scepter 3 when they stealth.

Bacon.4918:

decoy (4s), torch offhand stealth(4s), mass invisibility(6s), veil(3s), desperate decoy(4s)…
21 seconds of stealth potentially.

You can also go through veil twice (or just hop on the line) for a total of 24 seconds to be fair.

Cool thing about decoy, I’ll have to keep that in mind when escaping. Not sure too many people take desperate decoy since there are better dueling traits than a 90 second cooldown stealth at 25% health (which only triggers with direct damage apparently) but sure it’s another one.

Keep in mind the cooldown for these skills are (traited) 30(24), 40 (32), 90 (72), 90, 90 so it seems pretty fair to me. And if you want to get the traited version of decoy you have to go 25 into illusions which is very bad for the PU build, as is the traited version of veil which requires 10 in inspiration, which isn’t terrible but not exactly desired either.

Anyway others have replied similarily to me, but if you want an unbiased opinion go ask in other class forums if they think the build is OP. I think they would have other classes/builds higher on the list.

dandamanno.4136:

I think it really depends on the builds/professions you are up against. The truth of the matter is this build allows the Mesmer to survive in an environment that has become so heavily laden with conditions/stuns that without the stealth they become sitting ducks.

No one is fooled by clones anymore when they can see the real Mesmer dodging /strafing / casting/ backwards walking, so shatter Mesmers, while not a weak build, is just not as great as it was a year ago.

If you run the math I believe the Mesmer can (with traits + torch) stealth about once every 10-15 seconds averaged out. Of course it can be chained together but then they will have longer periods of no stealth.

Not sure what you mean by “stealth through reveal” as I have never seen that happen to me or anyone else.

Builds that I have trouble with while running a PU/condition build are:
1. Necros
2. Engineers
3. Anything with strong condition application, since mesmers have only active condition removal abilities that require traits/utility slots, nothing passive.
4. Anything that has decent AoE
5. Unkillable healing warriors, usually a stalemate.

Also for WvW (should be clear that is what I am talking about in this post) the mobility is terrible, and if you get caught by a larger group you will not escape unless you have multiple stealth skills off cooldown, since Mesmers have, with the exception of blink, no gap increasers.

That’s my take on it anyways. A strong build, but unkillable? My history (for what it’s worth) would say otherwise.

Those issues only arise under certain builds (such as PU builds Blackwater inclined). If you tweak traits, utilities, and gear you can easily overcome those class troubles, and make mobility issues disappear.

Started playing this build in WvW, easier to play than a stun warrior I must say and more effective. I was able to win duels right away, only necromancers give me some trouble but I could easily outmaneuver them so it isn’t much of an issue. Overall, I still feel this build is too strong (especially with perplexity runes) considering how easy it is to play.

Sorry, Im a noob….. “PU” ?

Soullesseal.2850:

Sorry, Im a noob….. “PU” ?

Prismatic understanding

Lahel.6381:

Soullesseal.2850:

Sorry, Im a noob….. “PU” ?

Prismatic understanding

Grandmaster Trait in Chaos

Soullesseal.2850:

Sorry, Im a noob….. “PU” ?

PU condition builds are builds that use X/X/30/X/X as a base.

The most common variant (that I’ve seen) uses 20 points in domination for the torch cooldown trait (giving more common stealth and condition clear).

I think one of the most common is 20/20/30/0/0 (interestingly enough bypassing the condition damage tree all together, such is life as a mesmer).

PU is a really strong trait, probably too strong. I’m expecting at least the Aegis to be removed and replaced with another boon, possibly swiftness. Stealth + protection is already really good, Stealth + Aegis is too much.

I really enjoy my condi/stealth build in WvW, but I refuse to duel with it because, like most Mesmer builds it’s a nightmare for people to duel against. I once had a 1v1 with another condi/stealth Mesmer and it was quite possibly one of the most boring duels I have ever had.

As for 1v2 or 1v3, it has very good survivability, but compared to necro and engi, condition application is relatively slow and mostly single target. I find it’s very easy for 2 or 3 decent players to put enough pressure on a condi/stealth Mesmer to force them to blow all their stealth/stun breakers leaving them vulnerable. Also, chances of the condi/stealth Mesmer also having access to increased movement speed are very low, so they probably won’t be able to catch you or run away.

I’ve tried it out in sPvP and WvW and LOVE it.

I have trouble playing against Rangers (whichever ones are the ones traited to never die..they don’t stomp me, but I can’t kill them either),
Necros, and Engineers or Thiefs that can place turrets and traps in enclosed areas where you don’t have room to run around. Basically anyone that can load you up with conditions and have high removal or toughness can give you problems. That’s just conditions in general, I don’t think that’s anything specific to Mesmers.

I have one question though. Does debilitating dissipation apply conditions when the clones shatter due to being replaced by new ones, or is it only when a player/mob kills it?

Mek.2947:

I have one question though. Does debilitating dissipation apply conditions when the clones shatter due to being replaced by new ones, or is it only when a player/mob kills it?

The “illusions do x on death” traits work in all situations EXCEPT shattering. So if they are destroyed or replaced by another illusion and I believe if your target dies and they “vanish” they also do the explosion thing.

(Actually not sure about the last one but I am pretty sure I have seen residual illusions, you know the ones that hang around for several minutes after a fight, still do the debilitating explosion when they finally dissapear)

Mek.2947:

I have one question though. Does debilitating dissipation apply conditions when the clones shatter due to being replaced by new ones, or is it only when a player/mob kills it?

It is both. Any form of clone death (clone replacement, enemy kills clone, clone’s target dies) causes Debilitating Dissipation to proc.

It is OP at surviving in smallscale, but I do think it is mitigated by good players on certain strong classes who kite well and avoid unnecessary clone deaths and confusion damage. Doesn’t mean they get to kill me, but they can turn it into a stalemate of endless chasing.

It’s a nice beginner build, but imo much better builds out there for mesmer to win fights decisively.

Bacon.4918:

Started playing this build in WvW, easier to play than a stun warrior I must say and more effective. I was able to win duels right away, only necromancers give me some trouble but I could easily outmaneuver them so it isn’t much of an issue. Overall, I still feel this build is too strong (especially with perplexity runes) considering how easy it is to play.

perplexity runes are OP even without the mesmer, so that skews your perspective.

Please link some builds you are referring to. There are different types of PU condi that use different weapons and play styles.

Personally, I feel cripple is the most effective weapon verse my PU build. If I get crippled then they can wear me down at range and avoid DD blasts.

It’s kinda funny. 1/2 of the ;posts are talking 1 thing the other 1/2 something entirely difkittenda like when I posted aout how hard necros became after the condi patch. 1/2 of the replies were very helpful and on pt and the other 1/2 was all “i beat necros all the time” stuff from ppl who obviously had no idea what I was talking about.

Look there are lots of builds that use PU and lots of condi builds. The one under question I only fought 2x but I can’t deal with it at all . The combo of stealth, durability and burst condition is very nasty. OPed? maybe a bit if perplex rune is used . The build itself is fine without the runes imo.

I’m going to have to agree with Bacon, whenever I die I never blame it on my class or the classes I was versing, only myself (though I rarely die anyway).

To all the people who are worrying about how to kill the tanky professions:

If your using the 20/20/30/0/0 build there are two weapon sets I use which allow victory in any setting. The first is Staff and Sword/Torch (with geomancy sigils), yes this might sound stupid but it really works. I mainly use it for roaming and when I am fighting outnumbered situations. Obviously, you take the sword skill reduction and staff skill reduction traits.

The second setup is Scepter/Torch and Sword/Pistol. This combination unloads enough conditions to take any class out, provided you play accordingly by dodging and countering your opponent efficiently. I mainly use it when I engage someone, then find out I can’t kill them. I will disengage, change weapons/traits then proceed to re-engage. Again, the traits needed are phantasmal fury and desperate decoy instead of the weapon skill reduction traits.

For those interested the utilities I run are blink, decoy and either null field/veil.

Enjoy.

Bacon.4918:

Overall, this build is probably the strongest build I’ve ever played in the sense that if you die it is really on you, so many deceptions and stealth abilities with boons kiting is too easy meanwhile you are putting out stupid AOE condition pressure.

I consider one of the major cons of the condi/stealth builds compared with necro/engi condi builds is the distinct lack of AoE condi pressure. If using staff you have a chance to proc poison, but then everything else is PBAoE (Cry of Frustration, clone death traits, The Prestige). Most opponents seem to move out of the range of any possible clone death conditions as they naturally kite during battle. There is the beam affect of confusing images but it’s not the most efficient multi-target condition source. Everything else is single target, making it insanely powerful for duels (no point duelling with this build, it’s too strong for that), great for 1vX survivability (especially if you sacrifice some condi damage for centaur or traveller runes), but pretty lacklustre in group fights compared to necro/engi.

Try doing some 1v3-5s. It’s fun seeing how long you can stay alive before someone puts enough pressure on you at the right time to cause you to blow all your GTFO cards ;-)

Be an engi.

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