Guild Wars 2

Hopefully constructive and calm video in regards to the heavy handed nerf of the PU trait on Mesmers. What I it should be and my thoughts on how Anet could perhaps learn to balance a bit more effectively.

https://youtu.be/3rlpem8NRS0

Here’s the deal.

PU mesmer was a better thief than thief. That was the primary problem. When the “class with some stealth” became better at both utilizing and providing stealth than “the stealth class”

You’ve discussed thief in your video without also recognizing the fact that thieves have zero sustain, zero ability to actually deal damage while stealthed, and are completely shut down defensively when revealed in the case of most stealth builds.

Mesmers are still relevant. You’ve still got stellar burst, good CC, and sustain the thief would literally give up a weapon set for.

Take it from a thief, they don’t care how much you complain when they hit something that hard. It has happenned to thieves over and over since launch. It’s 50%, and it’s probably going to stay at 50%

PU is still very good, but more balanced. 100% was wayy over the top. The only problem I see is that you got used to such a long duration that you cant play with it now anymore. Get used to it as it is now

It got nerfed because people were abusing PU and pledge trait primarily in WvW. Unfortunately all PU people have to pay the price regardless of game mode. I was playing PvP after the patch yesterday, and the gap in between mes damage and other classes for is growing even wider. Quite a few classes got large damage buffs yesterday to the point of getting ridiculous. Thieve pistol unload now does 12K crit damage.

Because we have phants and clones it seems we have to have lower sustain, lower damage, and limited condition removal although illusions often last for one attack or die in aoe fields before they can attack. Chrono is the one spec that actually gives more substantial damage, but the other elite specs also add substantial damage on top of already ample frames. Burning remains untouched, and overall damage just keeps going higher and higher. On normal specs mes just doesn’t feel in a good place to me any more. A lot of things that were given to mes have been rolled back because of abused broken skill interactions. It seems to me that mes are moving backwards to where it was before while other classes are moving forwards.

Since boons don’t last fractional seconds, and Anet’s code rounds down, the “new PU” is exactly the same as the old PU in duration with the exception of adding 2 seconds to Mass Invisibility rather than the 1 second of yore.

PU has the following impacts:
Decoy: From 3 seconds to 4 seconds (50% of 3 is 1.5, 1.5 rounded down is 1).
Veil: From 2 seconds to 3 seconds (50% of 2 is 1, no rounding applied).
The Prestige: From 3 seconds to 4 seconds (50% of 3 is 1.5, rounded down is 1).
Mass Invisibility: From 5 seconds to 7 seconds (50% of 5 is 2.5, rounded down is 2).

The effect of this change, at least from a stealth perspective, is put PU, basically, exactly where it was before the big trait revamp. It is, once again, not worth using. It’s gone the way of Fiery Greatsword, Ice Bow, and any other “OP” treat players have enjoyed that’s been nerfed into oblivion.

We are the only class that went somewhere then came back. Holding out hope for chrono so we can be right back to where we were pre patch, trait reliant with no build diversity. twillight zone material.

denis.9487:

We are the only class that went somewhere then came back. Holding out hope for chrono so we can be right back to where we were pre patch, trait reliant with no build diversity. twillight zone material.

I think we all know we will get weeks of “mesmer OP” and “chronomancer is so broken” before they’re nerfed into obsolescence.

Reducing the added stealth duration to 50% was the right way to go and I think the game will be healthier because of it. I think it would be fine if the Might was removed from the random boon list now. Chaotic Interruption can provide you with all the Might you could possibly want- let PU be a purely defensive trait to aid new players.

Simonoly.4352:

Reducing the added stealth duration to 50% was the right way to go and I think the game will be healthier because of it. I think it would be fine if the Might was removed from the random boon list now. Chaotic Interruption can provide you with all the Might you could possibly want- let PU be a purely defensive trait to aid new players.

So let’s reduce Mesmer even beyond pre patch trait revamp!!! Brilliant.

denis.9487:

Simonoly.4352:

Reducing the added stealth duration to 50% was the right way to go and I think the game will be healthier because of it. I think it would be fine if the Might was removed from the random boon list now. Chaotic Interruption can provide you with all the Might you could possibly want- let PU be a purely defensive trait to aid new players.

So let’s reduce Mesmer even beyond pre patch trait revamp!!! Brilliant.

You think removing might from PU would be a nerf?

Noss.4105:

denis.9487:

Simonoly.4352:

Reducing the added stealth duration to 50% was the right way to go and I think the game will be healthier because of it. I think it would be fine if the Might was removed from the random boon list now. Chaotic Interruption can provide you with all the Might you could possibly want- let PU be a purely defensive trait to aid new players.

So let’s reduce Mesmer even beyond pre patch trait revamp!!! Brilliant.

You think removing might from PU would be a nerf?

Yes considering not all pu use is conditional. Right runes and say Dom gm trait imagined burden.

My point was to move forward after trait revamp. Not 1 forward 2 back.

denis.9487:

Noss.4105:

denis.9487:

Simonoly.4352:

Reducing the added stealth duration to 50% was the right way to go and I think the game will be healthier because of it. I think it would be fine if the Might was removed from the random boon list now. Chaotic Interruption can provide you with all the Might you could possibly want- let PU be a purely defensive trait to aid new players.

So let’s reduce Mesmer even beyond pre patch trait revamp!!! Brilliant.

You think removing might from PU would be a nerf?

Yes considering not all pu use is conditional. Right runes and say Dom gm trait imagined burden.

Don’t know how conditions or Imagined Burden is relevant, but I’ll take aegis or protection over one stack of might any day. Whatever the build.

Noss.4105:

denis.9487:

Noss.4105:

denis.9487:

Simonoly.4352:

Reducing the added stealth duration to 50% was the right way to go and I think the game will be healthier because of it. I think it would be fine if the Might was removed from the random boon list now. Chaotic Interruption can provide you with all the Might you could possibly want- let PU be a purely defensive trait to aid new players.

So let’s reduce Mesmer even beyond pre patch trait revamp!!! Brilliant.

You think removing might from PU would be a nerf?

Yes considering not all pu use is conditional. Right runes and say Dom gm trait imagined burden.

Don’t know how conditions or Imagined Burden is relevant, but I’ll take aegis or protection over one stack of might any day. Whatever the build.

Requires imagination. Not everyone runs pu as a condition spec. So the might stack coupled with runes traits and wvw bonus(if there) could prove useful in a power build. Again not interested in going backwards yet that is our course at the moment.

denis.9487:

Noss.4105:

denis.9487:

Noss.4105:

denis.9487:

Simonoly.4352:

Reducing the added stealth duration to 50% was the right way to go and I think the game will be healthier because of it. I think it would be fine if the Might was removed from the random boon list now. Chaotic Interruption can provide you with all the Might you could possibly want- let PU be a purely defensive trait to aid new players.

So let’s reduce Mesmer even beyond pre patch trait revamp!!! Brilliant.

You think removing might from PU would be a nerf?

Yes considering not all pu use is conditional. Right runes and say Dom gm trait imagined burden.

Don’t know how conditions or Imagined Burden is relevant, but I’ll take aegis or protection over one stack of might any day. Whatever the build.

Requires imagination. Not everyone runs pu as a condition spec. So the might stack coupled with runes traits and wvw bonus(if there) could prove useful in a power build. Again not interested in going backwards yet that is our course at the moment.

Well you got quite an imagination.
Sure, one might stack is useful. But it doesn’t change the fact that it’s probably the weakest of the boons PU provides. WvW bonuses or Imagined Burden is irrelevant, one might stack is one might stack.

Nice video but the devs usually don’t respond to anything unless it’s presented in bullet points.

Land of Cheese.2584:

Since boons don’t last fractional seconds, and Anet’s code rounds down, the “new PU” is exactly the same as the old PU in duration with the exception of adding 2 seconds to Mass Invisibility rather than the 1 second of yore.

PU has the following impacts:
Decoy: From 3 seconds to 4 seconds (50% of 3 is 1.5, 1.5 rounded down is 1).
Veil: From 2 seconds to 3 seconds (50% of 2 is 1, no rounding applied).
The Prestige: From 3 seconds to 4 seconds (50% of 3 is 1.5, rounded down is 1).
Mass Invisibility: From 5 seconds to 7 seconds (50% of 5 is 2.5, rounded down is 2).

The effect of this change, at least from a stealth perspective, is put PU, basically, exactly where it was before the big trait revamp. It is, once again, not worth using. It’s gone the way of Fiery Greatsword, Ice Bow, and any other “OP” treat players have enjoyed that’s been nerfed into oblivion.

I forgot all about that in my video but your right, boons dont last half seconds.

Got to love how they moved this from the main forums to this backwater one where it could be ignored too,

denis.9487:

Noss.4105:

denis.9487:

Noss.4105:

denis.9487:

Simonoly.4352:

Reducing the added stealth duration to 50% was the right way to go and I think the game will be healthier because of it. I think it would be fine if the Might was removed from the random boon list now. Chaotic Interruption can provide you with all the Might you could possibly want- let PU be a purely defensive trait to aid new players.

So let’s reduce Mesmer even beyond pre patch trait revamp!!! Brilliant.

You think removing might from PU would be a nerf?

Yes considering not all pu use is conditional. Right runes and say Dom gm trait imagined burden.

Don’t know how conditions or Imagined Burden is relevant, but I’ll take aegis or protection over one stack of might any day. Whatever the build.

Requires imagination. Not everyone runs pu as a condition spec. So the might stack coupled with runes traits and wvw bonus(if there) could prove useful in a power build. Again not interested in going backwards yet that is our course at the moment.

I think Pyro needs to “make friends” with you.

You take PU for defence, it’s in the defence line, it’s meant for defence. Look at every single other profession, they have a defence line too and it has defence in it.

When I’m being chased by a very angry blob I couldn’t give 2 flying kittens about a single stack of might, I wanna gtfo of there. I want something that’s going to help me elude them, give me defence against all the 11111 guard staff spamming, something that’s going to help me liv,e not a single stack of 30 power.

You clearly have no idea why the might and swiftness was added in the first place. It was to dilute down the boons from aegis, regen and protection. It was giving very high amounts of survivability as you would usually have protection and aegis up for the duration of the stealth.

Now we have resistance they could essentially revert it back to the old 3 boons but chuck resistance in the mix for a bit of randomness.

denis.9487:

Noss.4105:

denis.9487:

Noss.4105:

denis.9487:

Simonoly.4352:

Reducing the added stealth duration to 50% was the right way to go and I think the game will be healthier because of it. I think it would be fine if the Might was removed from the random boon list now. Chaotic Interruption can provide you with all the Might you could possibly want- let PU be a purely defensive trait to aid new players.

So let’s reduce Mesmer even beyond pre patch trait revamp!!! Brilliant.

You think removing might from PU would be a nerf?

Yes considering not all pu use is conditional. Right runes and say Dom gm trait imagined burden.

Don’t know how conditions or Imagined Burden is relevant, but I’ll take aegis or protection over one stack of might any day. Whatever the build.

Requires imagination. Not everyone runs pu as a condition spec. So the might stack coupled with runes traits and wvw bonus(if there) could prove useful in a power build. Again not interested in going backwards yet that is our course at the moment.

If you want to make a wild claim such as ‘might on PU is totally a good thing’, you’re going to need to back it up, not just say ‘oh, it needs imagination.’ There are so many other ways to get might that don’t simultaneously involve neutering your defensive capabilities. This means that might on PU is nothing but a bad thing.

Even in the absolute best case scenario, you could maybe get about 4 stacks of might from a stealth skill. 4 stacks of might instead of aegis, protection, regen, or swiftness. This is absurdly weak, so I’m looking forward to this miraculous build you claim to have that makes use of it.

Vague Memory.2817:

It got nerfed because people were abusing PU and pledge trait primarily in WvW. Unfortunately all PU people have to pay the price regardless of game mode. I was playing PvP after the patch yesterday, and the gap in between mes damage and other classes for is growing even wider. Quite a few classes got large damage buffs yesterday to the point of getting ridiculous. Thieve pistol unload now does 12K crit damage.

Because we have phants and clones it seems we have to have lower sustain, lower damage, and limited condition removal although illusions often last for one attack or die in aoe fields before they can attack. Chrono is the one spec that actually gives more substantial damage, but the other elite specs also add substantial damage on top of already ample frames. Burning remains untouched, and overall damage just keeps going higher and higher. On normal specs mes just doesn’t feel in a good place to me any more. A lot of things that were given to mes have been rolled back because of abused broken skill interactions. It seems to me that mes are moving backwards to where it was before while other classes are moving forwards.

Problem is they know how to balance per mode, they have done it before separating out hovw things work in WvW and PvP/PvE. It is not a a foreign concept to them. It needed a nerf because 100% is stupid but reducing it by 25% instead of 50% would have been better and not quite so heavy handed. People complained because they could not beat a class they used to wipe the floor with and Anet (which I am convinced never tests their balances) basically reverted Mesmer back to the pre-Spec patch days in response.

Lol wow. I have no build. I think you are missing my point. I do not want to go backwards anymore. Removing the might takes pu to its original stage all I am saying. Why did we have this trait revamp if we doing all rights it will make a circle. We are heading back to original Mesmer. Before trait revamp we had core builds now it looks like chrono is all we have to look forward to. We are becoming the same just now we must take chrono. My issue is not the stack of might just the return to post trait patch.

denis.9487:

Lol wow. I have no build. I think you are missing my point. I do not want to go backwards anymore. Removing the might takes pu to its original stage all I am saying. Why did we have this trait revamp if we doing all rights it will make a circle. We are heading back to original Mesmer. Before trait revamp we had core builds now it looks like chrono is all we have to look forward to. We are becoming the same just now we must take chrono. My issue is not the stack of might just the return to post trait patch.

You don’t seem to understand the basic concept here: might was added to PU as a nerf, not a buff. Removing the might isn’t just “moving backward”. Removing the might is a hard buff to PU.

Mesmer is in a horrible state after yesterdays patch, why buff us at all June 23rd if you were going to allow us to be debuffed so harshly yesterday. 75% stealth increase instead of 100% would have been just acceptable I keep saying this. It feels like ArenaNet has a flavor of the month when it comes to professions each time they release a balance patch.

Fay.2357:

denis.9487:

Lol wow. I have no build. I think you are missing my point. I do not want to go backwards anymore. Removing the might takes pu to its original stage all I am saying. Why did we have this trait revamp if we doing all rights it will make a circle. We are heading back to original Mesmer. Before trait revamp we had core builds now it looks like chrono is all we have to look forward to. We are becoming the same just now we must take chrono. My issue is not the stack of might just the return to post trait patch.

You don’t seem to understand the basic concept here: might was added to PU as a nerf, not a buff. Removing the might isn’t just “moving backward”. Removing the might is a hard buff to PU.

Sure makes sense. So it’s ok to go backwards to that time when might and swiftness were not in be boon pool. How about stop going 1 step forward then 2 backwards. Didn’t realize I was trying to prove how we as a class are heading to post trait Mesmer at a certain time period.

denis.9487:

Fay.2357:

denis.9487:

Lol wow. I have no build. I think you are missing my point. I do not want to go backwards anymore. Removing the might takes pu to its original stage all I am saying. Why did we have this trait revamp if we doing all rights it will make a circle. We are heading back to original Mesmer. Before trait revamp we had core builds now it looks like chrono is all we have to look forward to. We are becoming the same just now we must take chrono. My issue is not the stack of might just the return to post trait patch.

You don’t seem to understand the basic concept here: might was added to PU as a nerf, not a buff. Removing the might isn’t just “moving backward”. Removing the might is a hard buff to PU.

Sure makes sense. So it’s ok to go backwards to that time when might and swiftness were not in be boon pool. How about stop going 1 step forward then 2 backwards. Didn’t realize I was trying to prove how we as a class are heading to post trait Mesmer at a certain time period.

Why are you so nailed to the perspective of old=bad and new=good? It makes zero sense. The only thing that matters is simply how strong the mechanic is, and might makes the mechanic weaker. It’s that simple.

You could argue that mesmer needs more stealth if you really want to complain about thief stealth (which is actually a lot more reasonable than it used to be), but there’s not really much point. 75% buff would be great, but 50% really is not the hell hole that you’re implying.

As for mesmer being “in a horrible state,” that’s a MASSIVE over-reaction. PU shatter is still strong if you know how to play it (as is shatter on the whole), and if a few seconds of stealth is REALLY what’s making the difference in fights, then the PU nerf isn’t the base of that problem. After all, if we take what you said in the video at face value, you’re talking about a 4 second difference (decoy and prestige together means 12s vs 8s). Condi mesmer is still strong. Even in player fights, phantasm builds are still strong (although that’s because most players don’t bother killing them).

As someone who plays mesmer a lot in WvW, and runs PU pretty often, the only time I really depend on it is when hiding in a keep. You don’t need 6s on decoy to disengage/reengage if you’re managing your other skills well. Sure, the 100% was great for keep hiding, since I could come pretty close to perma-stealth with veil/decoy/mimic/prestige+pledge/mass invis, but even after the nerf that aspect of mesmer is still alive and well (at least until the HoT WvW changes and we get tracked in keeps).

I don’t know which way Anet would go with this, but the only way to keep the overall benefit at least somewhat close to the intent of 50% is to raise the effect to either 65% or 70% (75% gives you the same result as 70%).

At 65%, the average benefit is to increase duration by 44%. At 70%, the average benefit is to increase duration by 61%. This is because of how the game rounds boon duration down.

If you set PU at 65% you get +33% to Decoy, +50% to Veil, +33% to The Prestige, and +60% to Mass Invisibility.

If you set PU at +70% you get +67% to Decoy, +50% to Veil, +67% to The Prestige, and +60% to Mass Invisibility.

The current +50% “benefit” the trait provides only gives you +33% to Decoy, +50% to Veil, +33% to The Prestige, and only +40% to Mass Invisibility.

Personally, I think increasing it to 70% (or 75%, the same thing) is the sweet spot.

Fay.2357:

denis.9487:

Fay.2357:

denis.9487:

Lol wow. I have no build. I think you are missing my point. I do not want to go backwards anymore. Removing the might takes pu to its original stage all I am saying. Why did we have this trait revamp if we doing all rights it will make a circle. We are heading back to original Mesmer. Before trait revamp we had core builds now it looks like chrono is all we have to look forward to. We are becoming the same just now we must take chrono. My issue is not the stack of might just the return to post trait patch.

You don’t seem to understand the basic concept here: might was added to PU as a nerf, not a buff. Removing the might isn’t just “moving backward”. Removing the might is a hard buff to PU.

Sure makes sense. So it’s ok to go backwards to that time when might and swiftness were not in be boon pool. How about stop going 1 step forward then 2 backwards. Didn’t realize I was trying to prove how we as a class are heading to post trait Mesmer at a certain time period.

Why are you so nailed to the perspective of old=bad and new=good? It makes zero sense. The only thing that matters is simply how strong the mechanic is, and might makes the mechanic weaker. It’s that simple.

Ok so old Mesmer wasn’t as effective after trait patch. Mantras mirror blade we have taken a lot of hits. So we are sliding down a slippery slope. Whether you agree or disagree the nerfs keep coming. Hence the comparison. At least we could trait extra bounce before no option for gs. Mantras need help. Pu nerf.

denis.9487:

Fay.2357:

denis.9487:

Fay.2357:

denis.9487:

Lol wow. I have no build. I think you are missing my point. I do not want to go backwards anymore. Removing the might takes pu to its original stage all I am saying. Why did we have this trait revamp if we doing all rights it will make a circle. We are heading back to original Mesmer. Before trait revamp we had core builds now it looks like chrono is all we have to look forward to. We are becoming the same just now we must take chrono. My issue is not the stack of might just the return to post trait patch.

You don’t seem to understand the basic concept here: might was added to PU as a nerf, not a buff. Removing the might isn’t just “moving backward”. Removing the might is a hard buff to PU.

Sure makes sense. So it’s ok to go backwards to that time when might and swiftness were not in be boon pool. How about stop going 1 step forward then 2 backwards. Didn’t realize I was trying to prove how we as a class are heading to post trait Mesmer at a certain time period.

Why are you so nailed to the perspective of old=bad and new=good? It makes zero sense. The only thing that matters is simply how strong the mechanic is, and might makes the mechanic weaker. It’s that simple.

Ok so old Mesmer wasn’t as effective after trait patch. Mantras mirror blade we have taken a lot of hits. So we are sliding down a slippery slope. Whether you agree or disagree the nerfs keep coming. Hence the comparison. At least we could trait extra bounce before no option for gs. Mantras need help. Pu nerf.

Your argument still makes zero sense and contains zero logic. Old, new, none of that matters! Stop trying to call all old things bad and all new things good. You’re wrong. There is no “slippery slope”, what an absolutely absurd thing to claim.

We’ve gotten both buffs and nerfs, throughout the existence of this game. The absolute timeline of when these occurred has absolutely zero impact on the changes themselves. The only thing that matters is how strong the mechanic is.

PU before swiftness and might was added was objectively better than it is now.

PU was an incredibly potent defensive mechanic that got watered down as a nerf. This is a fact.

The old version of decoy that ignored revealed was objectively better than it is now. This is a fact.

Obviously, some old versions of mechanics were better than they are now. This is because they got nerfed. Additionally, some old versions of mechanics are weaker than they are now, because they got buffed.

One more time. Being old or new doesn’t matter. The only thing that matters is the strength of the mechanic. Stop being all confused about old and new and “slippery slopes” and “steps backward”. That’s all absurd. Just look at the strength of the mechanics.

Fay.2357:

denis.9487:

Fay.2357:

denis.9487:

Fay.2357:

denis.9487:

Lol wow. I have no build. I think you are missing my point. I do not want to go backwards anymore. Removing the might takes pu to its original stage all I am saying. Why did we have this trait revamp if we doing all rights it will make a circle. We are heading back to original Mesmer. Before trait revamp we had core builds now it looks like chrono is all we have to look forward to. We are becoming the same just now we must take chrono. My issue is not the stack of might just the return to post trait patch.

You don’t seem to understand the basic concept here: might was added to PU as a nerf, not a buff. Removing the might isn’t just “moving backward”. Removing the might is a hard buff to PU.

Sure makes sense. So it’s ok to go backwards to that time when might and swiftness were not in be boon pool. How about stop going 1 step forward then 2 backwards. Didn’t realize I was trying to prove how we as a class are heading to post trait Mesmer at a certain time period.

Why are you so nailed to the perspective of old=bad and new=good? It makes zero sense. The only thing that matters is simply how strong the mechanic is, and might makes the mechanic weaker. It’s that simple.

Ok so old Mesmer wasn’t as effective after trait patch. Mantras mirror blade we have taken a lot of hits. So we are sliding down a slippery slope. Whether you agree or disagree the nerfs keep coming. Hence the comparison. At least we could trait extra bounce before no option for gs. Mantras need help. Pu nerf.

Your argument still makes zero sense and contains zero logic. Old, new, none of that matters! Stop trying to call all old things bad and all new things good. You’re wrong. There is no “slippery slope”, what an absolutely absurd thing to claim.

We’ve gotten both buffs and nerfs, throughout the existence of this game. The absolute timeline of when these occurred has absolutely zero impact on the changes themselves. The only thing that matters is how strong the mechanic is.

PU before swiftness and might was added was objectively better than it is now.

PU was an incredibly potent defensive mechanic that got watered down as a nerf. This is a fact.

The old version of decoy that ignored revealed was objectively better than it is now. This is a fact.

Obviously, some old versions of mechanics were better than they are now. This is because they got nerfed. Additionally, some old versions of mechanics are weaker than they are now, because they got buffed.

One more time. Being old or new doesn’t matter. The only thing that matters is the strength of the mechanic. Stop being all confused about old and new and “slippery slopes” and “steps backward”. That’s all absurd. Just look at the strength of the mechanics.

Ok so the strength of our mechanics haven’t changed. Staff mtd dueling combatants the list goes on. If you insist on making your claim that one cannot compare after the trait revamp then that is your short comings.

denis.9487:

Fay.2357:

denis.9487:

Fay.2357:

denis.9487:

Fay.2357:

denis.9487:

Lol wow. I have no build. I think you are missing my point. I do not want to go backwards anymore. Removing the might takes pu to its original stage all I am saying. Why did we have this trait revamp if we doing all rights it will make a circle. We are heading back to original Mesmer. Before trait revamp we had core builds now it looks like chrono is all we have to look forward to. We are becoming the same just now we must take chrono. My issue is not the stack of might just the return to post trait patch.

You don’t seem to understand the basic concept here: might was added to PU as a nerf, not a buff. Removing the might isn’t just “moving backward”. Removing the might is a hard buff to PU.

Sure makes sense. So it’s ok to go backwards to that time when might and swiftness were not in be boon pool. How about stop going 1 step forward then 2 backwards. Didn’t realize I was trying to prove how we as a class are heading to post trait Mesmer at a certain time period.

Why are you so nailed to the perspective of old=bad and new=good? It makes zero sense. The only thing that matters is simply how strong the mechanic is, and might makes the mechanic weaker. It’s that simple.

Ok so old Mesmer wasn’t as effective after trait patch. Mantras mirror blade we have taken a lot of hits. So we are sliding down a slippery slope. Whether you agree or disagree the nerfs keep coming. Hence the comparison. At least we could trait extra bounce before no option for gs. Mantras need help. Pu nerf.

Your argument still makes zero sense and contains zero logic. Old, new, none of that matters! Stop trying to call all old things bad and all new things good. You’re wrong. There is no “slippery slope”, what an absolutely absurd thing to claim.

We’ve gotten both buffs and nerfs, throughout the existence of this game. The absolute timeline of when these occurred has absolutely zero impact on the changes themselves. The only thing that matters is how strong the mechanic is.

PU before swiftness and might was added was objectively better than it is now.

PU was an incredibly potent defensive mechanic that got watered down as a nerf. This is a fact.

The old version of decoy that ignored revealed was objectively better than it is now. This is a fact.

Obviously, some old versions of mechanics were better than they are now. This is because they got nerfed. Additionally, some old versions of mechanics are weaker than they are now, because they got buffed.

One more time. Being old or new doesn’t matter. The only thing that matters is the strength of the mechanic. Stop being all confused about old and new and “slippery slopes” and “steps backward”. That’s all absurd. Just look at the strength of the mechanics.

Ok so the strength of our mechanics haven’t changed. Staff mtd dueling combatants the list goes on. If you insist on making your claim that one cannot compare after the trait revamp then that is your short comings.

You’re putting words in my mouth that I didn’t say, and therefor drawing faulty conclusions. Let’s try this again:

The only thing that matters is the absolute strength of mechanics.

Let me be more clear:

The only thing that matters is the absolute strength of mechanics.

One more time:

The only thing that matters is the absolute strength of mechanics.

Hopefully I communicated that point well enough. I don’t care about old or new. The only thing I care about is the strength of a mechanic, so how are you going to try and say I’m ignoring that? You’re the one making crazy statements about how anything old is automatically bad >_<.

I have stated that pre patch Mesmer was weaker until the nerfs. I am making a comparison. We will be back to where we started. You want to take each mechanic and judge it. I prefer taking the whole.

mesmer is still viable class……….dunno why you all think its not

Amityel.5324:

mesmer is still viable class……….dunno why you all think its not

wat do u mean………..we all?

Perhaps we can turn our attention to trying and getting them to adjust this to 60-70%

Amityel.5324:

mesmer is still viable class……….dunno why you all think its not

Everything is ‘viable’. We’re discussing whether or not its commensurable.

Um should I be the one to point out that boons do last fractions of a second? As well as the fact that this is a “buff” and not a “boon”

I literally just tested this in game and this buff (like alacrity) also applies in fractions of a second.

So….yeah.

not really nice try Daniel

I propose the creation of the Guild Wars 2 Mesmer Player’s Union

atlrising.5134:

not really nice try Daniel

What on earth do you mean not really? Have you actually tried it in game? Not only does the tool tip list it as 4.5 seconds of stealth. When I used decoy and the prestige at the same time I got 9 seconds of stealth.

atlrising.5134:

not really nice try Daniel

What part of “literally just tested this in game” do you not understand?
He tested stealth, it worked fractionally, that’s the end of that.

If you want to challenge his test, you must provide a test of your own, or evidence that he has a history of lying about things he’s tested.

The PU nerf is too much… a 50% reduction in cloak barely makes it worth having as a trait anymore… veil is all but useless now… it never worked properly in the first place, now I cloak and uncloak in less than a second. If they fixed the skill so it did what it says it is supposed to before nerfing PU then it might not be as bad.

Turkadactyl.5308:

PU shatter is still strong if you know how to play it (as is shatter on the whole)

LMAO… if you know how to play it?

This is how you play PU shatter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A--5dhngMWY

I also just tested a popular form of chaining together the stealth skills. The results were
decoy*2+
mass invis*1+
prestige 3

or (4.5*2)(4.5*2)(7.5) or 25.5 seconds of continuous stealth.
edit: equation is wrong, not only in format.

Pro tip: when writing equations, put a space before and after every operator to prevent the forum from eating them.

The stealth duration was not the issue. I believe the fraction of seconds will not apply a boon it rounds down.

So even though the stealth time is longer the amount of boons is the same pre patch. I believe.

Trying it out today, it feels about as good as the old PU, so it’s still a fantastic trait for both power and condi builds.

Power shatter Mesmer is still incredibly powerful. You can still use Confounding Suggestions to inflict an untelegraphed instant stun with MoD which synergises with Mental Anguish to destroy other squishes in but half a burst rotation. Blinding Dissipation provides you with amazing active sustain in melee range. MR, IM and PU still synergise wonderfully well to generate a reliable upkeep of protection which gets even better with Chaotic Dampening. Master of Manipulation is still amazing even with just Blink. We found out that the cooldown reductions from The Pledge are intended to be as strong as they are. If you fancy it Inspiration provides you with everything you need to deal with conditions. Sword auto-attack got a well needed buff. Temporal Curtain was finally addressed. Portal got another ui change to aid us.

The only questionable thing from the patch was the ‘not quite there yet’ was the Chaotic Dampening percentage reduction and Duellist’s Discipline which still remains a really odd trait that will only really get use from, I’m not sure….full dire Mesmers with low crit chance? Seems weird to create a trait that does something that the Duellist was doing anyway with of similar traits.

MoD, did you mean MtD or MoF?