Guild Wars 2

15 characters !

Overnerfed as usual. Oh well, with the amount of crying, it was inevitable.

For those who don’t know, the nerf is going to cut the current stealth increase duration from 100% to 50%. So only Chronomancers in pvp once HoT is out.

Are you kitten kittening me? That’s not an overnerf at all, it’s an entirely appropriate balance change.

The only people who needed the full 40s of Stealth we could get from old PU were WvW Roamers, and kitten ‘em. How many times do we need to explain that the game simply doesn’t allow for roaming as a balanceable playstyle?

Ithamir.5928:

For those who don’t know, the nerf is going to cut the current stealth increase duration from 100% to 50%. So only Chronomancers in pvp once HoT is out.

No..they correctly said the 100% was gone. So it’s going back to what it was before the patch. & it was not that good i might add.

No, they said it’s being reduced from 100% to 50%.

tobascodagama.2961:

Are you kitten kittening me? That’s not an overnerf at all, it’s an entirely appropriate balance change.

The only people who needed the full 40s of Stealth we could get from old PU were WvW Roamers, and kitten ‘em. How many times do we need to explain that the game simply doesn’t allow for roaming as a balanceable playstyle?

And soon everyone who is on the smc-owning side can get 2min stealth buff. Proof again they don’t care about WvW roaming in terms of balance.

tobascodagama.2961:

No, they said it’s being reduced from 100% to 50%.

I swear it they said removed & not reduced. I really paid attention. Guess gonna have to chk the clip again.

Pretty sure they said 50%. And thats actually fine imo.

has someone done the math if chronomancer can still get 100% stealth uptime?

and no change or rebalance for the scepter?

It’s 50% instead of 100%, perfectly fine, will still get plenty of play.

Before the June 23 patch PU only added 1s to stealth skills. When they changed the trait system they buffed it MASSIVLY. This nerf was seen coming over a mile away.

Angel de Lyssa.4716:

and no change or rebalance for the scepter?

They didn’t give a complete list of changes, they were rushing through to name a couple for every profession. It’s possible there were some Scepter changes we didn’t hear about.

…although given their perennial neglect of that weapon, I doubt it.

Rikit Runk.5170:

has someone done the math if chronomancer can still get 100% stealth uptime?

It was dicey before, you’ll definitely need two Mesmers to pull it off now. Especially if the balance patch also fixes The Prestige.

Arshay Duskbrow.1306:

Angel de Lyssa.4716:

and no change or rebalance for the scepter?

They didn’t give a complete list of changes, they were rushing through to name a couple for every profession. It’s possible there were some Scepter changes we didn’t hear about.

…although given their perennial neglect of that weapon, I doubt it.

Though they did actually say they were buffing Scepter for Eles and Necros.

Sigmoid.7082:

Before the June 23 patch PU only added 1s to stealth skills. When they changed the trait system they buffed it MASSIVLY. This nerf was seen coming over a mile away.

Almost everything got MASSIVLY buffed. The power creep was real. So that point is moot. It may have been buffed too much, but it being buffed “MASSIVLY” isn’t actually relevant.

If I remember correctly, Anet has said that they want to balance more often but each balance would be smaller. Have they “reiterated” that philosophy or am I going senile?

tobascodagama.2961:

Rikit Runk.5170:

has someone done the math if chronomancer can still get 100% stealth uptime?

It was dicey before, you’ll definitely need two Mesmers to pull it off now. Especially if the balance patch also fixes The Prestige.

Arshay Duskbrow.1306:

Angel de Lyssa.4716:

and no change or rebalance for the scepter?

They didn’t give a complete list of changes, they were rushing through to name a couple for every profession. It’s possible there were some Scepter changes we didn’t hear about.

…although given their perennial neglect of that weapon, I doubt it.

Though they did actually say they were buffing Scepter for Eles and Necros.

Necro can now inflict x7 torment of the 3 skill easy, it with the condition fear is op, and the scepter mesmer is very slow, need rebalancing, more confusion condition or torment in AA, the 2 skill scepter is very passive to inflict x5 torment and the enemy dodges easy

Ithamir.5928:

If I remember correctly, Anet has said that they want to balance more often but each balance would be smaller. Have they “reiterated” that philosophy or am I going senile?

Don’t think they’ve reiterated it in words, but they’re doing a balance patch now only ~3 months after the last one. YMMV if that counts for “smaller but more often”.

Hugh said they will do a balance patch each pvp-season.

So HoTPatch – Season 1 – patch – Season 2 …..

My biggest annoyance is that this is a big cut to our ability to escort groups for skips.
Back to thief meta, :sigh:

And Veil even worse than it was before…

Hey, Thieves need something to do in the current PvE meta.

Khyber.1284:

:/ Give it to us, Take it back, really classy

If they give back some of the duration on Veil/MI, I’ll be fine. They weren’t really the problem anyway.

Also, I really really hope there’s gonna be a fix to The Pledge in that patch, nerfing PU before fixing the bigger problem would be…. quite inscrutable.

With all the anti-stealth things being added to the game and the nerfs to stealth in general doesn’t work for my play style.But if it’s for “the good of the game” then so be it.I’m sure I’ll find another way to spend my spare time somewhere else.

PU nerf is justified but what about the Pledge then?

keenlam.4753:

PU nerf is justified but what about the Pledge then?

What about it?

AlphatheWhite.9351:

And Veil even worse than it was before…

Veil works out to be the same as +1s, for 3s total stealth instead of 4, plus you still get superspeed from the glamour trait.

Not sure what your issue is. It hurt Mass Invis much more than veil, but no mention of that.

Vieux P.1238:

keenlam.4753:

PU nerf is justified but what about the Pledge then?

What about it?

The pledge is still bugged to be adding 3 times the cdr it’s supposed to.
Between the The Prestige and Decoy under new PU, that’s 9s of stealth. If you sit out the whole 9s, you get 40% cdr.

But, if they fix the bug so it’s only adding the 1.5% cdr it’s supposed to add, sitting out that whole 9s of stealth gives you 16% cdr, which is less than the baseline 20% that is usual for such traits.

In other words, The Pledge is bugged to be too strong, but it’s too weak otherwise, and the whole point of it is encouraging stealth camping anyway so you can get more stealth from a weapon whose cooldowns are much too long for the benefits they give unless you have The Pledge giving you 40%+ cooldown reduction.

The Pledge was a bigger problem than PU, and they’re nerfing PU without any sign that they’re gonna make The Pledge actually reasonable.

first i hear about it to.. .. Link plz :/

Ghotistyx.6942:

Not sure what your issue is. It hurt Mass Invis much more than veil, but no mention of that.

What the hell are you talking about?
When I said “If they give back some of the duration on Veil/MI, I’ll be fine,” you do know that MI = Mass Invisibility, right?

But at 7.5s, MI is still providing a somewhat useful amount of group stealth. At 3s, Veil is not (4s really wasn’t great either).

Ghotistyx.6942:

Veil works out to be the same as +1s, for 3s total stealth instead of 4, plus you still get superspeed from the glamour trait.

Are you seriously confused why I’d be unhappy with +1s, when I’ve been defending PU almost since the June patch? You do realize that a lot of mesmers liked the extra stealth, and found it really nice to be able to provide a reasonable fraction of the amount of group stealth a thief can provide, don’t you?

Furthermore, I don’t take chaos and inspiration together on any builds. Do you?

You’re talking like I’m some bizarre anomaly who needs to be studied for being unhappy with the state of Veil specifically, which is itself rather bizarre, as I’m far from alone in that.

Seriously, you ask what my “issue is”, but your response demands that more than mine.

Vieux P.1238:

first i hear about it to.. .. Link plz :/

I don’t…what kind of link are you expecting? It’s been discussed exhaustively, but not in the last few days, so the threads are all gonna be old and on back pages.
Edit: you actually posted multiple times in one, “PU… PU’s everywhere…”, where the bug was brought up.

If you need verification, you can go test it easily.
1. Pop in a torch, trait PU and The Pledge, and slot decoy.
2. Activate The Prestige and immediately decoy.
3. When the 12s of stealth runs out, you should have about 1s left on The Prestige.

That puts The Prestige at about 13s cooldown. Since it starts at 30, that means it lost 17s in cooldown during your stealth, which works out to about 17/12 = 1.42s reduction per second of stealth, or about 4.7% (1.42/30).

AlphatheWhite.9351:

When I said “If they give back some of the duration on Veil/MI, I’ll be fine,” you do know that MI = Mass Invisibility, right?

MI got lost in all the other letters of complaint floating around. Cool.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

But at 7.5s, MI is still providing a somewhat useful amount of group stealth. At 3s, Veil is not (4s really wasn’t great either).

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Furthermore, I don’t take chaos and inspiration together on any builds. Do you?

Maybe there’s an opportunity there. I actually have a Chaos,/Inspiration/Illusions build I’m looking into. It’s certainly not for PvE, which is the vibe I’m getting.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Seriously, you ask what my “issue is”, but your response demands that more than mine.

Just wondering what was so great about 4s veil compared to 3s, but apparently that’s nothing either.

Ghotistyx.6942:

MI got lost in all the other letters of complaint floating around. Cool.

Oh, okay.

Ghotistyx.6942:

Maybe there’s an opportunity there. I actually have a Chaos,/Inspiration/Illusions build I’m looking into. It’s certainly not for PvE, which is the vibe I’m getting.

Some folks are looking at bunker builds for when HoT drops, and those could make use of both Chaos and Inspiration. The stealth from Veil is so terrible though, that it gets hard to justify taking a slot even for the glamour effects (given we can get better defenses from Wells now). Plus, if you’re a bunker running chaos anyway, it’s really hard to pass up on the stability from Bountiful Disillusionment.

Ghotistyx.6942:

Just wondering what was so great about 4s veil compared to 3s, but apparently that’s nothing either.

Yeah, I called out veil separately because this is a standing gripe that just gets worse with the change.

Just to note, the glamour trait is less than useless with veil. It only applies superspeed and resistance to allies currently within the radius of the glamour when it gets created. Obviously, nobody is ever in the radius of veil when it gets created…so it’s absolute garbage.

Fay.2357:

Just to note, the glamour trait is less than useless with veil. It only applies superspeed and resistance to allies currently within the radius of the glamour when it gets created. Obviously, nobody is ever in the radius of veil when it gets created…so it’s absolute garbage.

Indeed, I do wish they’d bring out a glamour trait change that made sense.

tobascodagama.2961:

Are you kitten kittening me? That’s not an overnerf at all, it’s an entirely appropriate balance change.

Because fixing the bug on Pledge was too difficult? :P

Fay.2357:

Just to note, the glamour trait is less than useless with veil. It only applies superspeed and resistance to allies currently within the radius of the glamour when it gets created. Obviously, nobody is ever in the radius of veil when it gets created…so it’s absolute garbage.

That certainly changes things. It needs to act like the revised Focus 4. Apply the effects once only upon crossing the boundary

Would be nice if veil had its stealth go from 2s to 3s. Not like anyone uses it except WvW and it seemed a lot of people enjoyed the extra duration.

Ah so sweet,

hope that it is only the first highly deserved nerf of many for this facerolling, low risk high reward no skill build and their winning team joiners….

It used to be 1 second extra, PU was insanely buffed in the specialization update. I saw this coming from a mile away, and I don’t particularly mind. PU dominated the Mesmer meta a little to hard for my liking.

kitten .

That trait i wasn’t using got nerfed. I guess it’s straight back to what I was already doing

-_-u

Definitely no overnerf. Undernerf, if anything, in my opinion. This trait should have stayed at one second or be changed entirely in functionality (prefer the latter). However, veil should be increased in duration or alternatively be changed to a smoke field in my opinion.

tobascodagama.2961:

Are you kitten kittening me? That’s not an overnerf at all, it’s an entirely appropriate balance change.

The only people who needed the full 40s of Stealth we could get from old PU were WvW Roamers, and kitten ‘em. How many times do we need to explain that the game simply doesn’t allow for roaming as a balanceable playstyle?

I don’t even run PU on my Mesmer and I can roam just fine in WvW so idk how this would totally destroy a stealth Mesmer in WvW. This would bring them more in line, imo, as stealth on a Mesmer should be complimentary and not overwrite your entire playstyle to play more Thief-like.

It’s fine. Except against thieves, other PU mesmers or zergs i rarely stay in stealth for the full duration, anyway. Sadly they didn’t increase the boons in exchange to compensate for the 30% duration we lost with the trait revamp.

As if this wasnt coming, im not even sure how 100% increase made it by play testing. PU was fine at 1 second.

This was inevitable. I think it’s a positive change. Hopefully The Pledge gets a bug fix too.

Looking at individual stealth skills +50% stealth time isn’t a great improvement over what it was previously of +1 sec.

Veil

Veil untraited = 2 sec

Veil + old PU (+1 sec) = 3 sec

Veil + current PU (100%) = 4 sec

Veil +Proposed PU (50%) = 3 sec

Note the proposed change would now be the same as the old PU trait.

Decoy (and Prestige)

Decoy untraited = 3 sec

Decoy + old PU (+1 sec) = 4 sec

Decoy + current PU (100%) = 6 sec

Decoy +Proposed PU (50%) = 4.5 sec

Note only 0.5 sec difference between current and old PU. Same as with Prestige on torch.

Mass invis (MI)

MI untraited = 5 sec

MI+ old PU (+1 sec) = 6 sec

MI + current PU (100%) = 10 sec

MI +Proposed PU (50%) = 7.5 sec

Proposed PU is 1.5 sec longer than the old PU. Obviously MI has the highest increase over old PU because it has the longest stealth.

So overall for everything but Mass invis, the proposed PU of 50% is effectively the same as the old PU.

Personally I think the devs thought we have the current pledge trait and with the upcoming addition of alacrity with Chrono we can still keep fairly high stealth frequency if we want to build for it. But overall stealth duration will decrease.

I actually like the +100% PU, but I never traited it much with the pledge trait (stealth reduction), which seems to be the main problem for keeping high stealth uptime at the moment. If I had to choose, I would rather keep 100% PU than I would the stealth reduction component from the pledge trait.

Great news. +100% duration really was boring and cheap way to improve this trait. Not that it even needed improvements, IMO.

Fay.2357:

Just to note, the glamour trait is less than useless with veil. It only applies superspeed and resistance to allies currently within the radius of the glamour when it gets created. Obviously, nobody is ever in the radius of veil when it gets created…so it’s absolute garbage.

Actually, Temporal Enchanter appears to apply its effect within a 240(?) radius around the center of the glamour. Easy enough to test yourself, just take the trait and drop Veil nearby but not on top of you. You’ll get the Superspeed and Resistance but not the Stealth.

Still kind of a worthless trait, though.

50% duration is still decent thanks for this fix!

Yes!!! Yes, please!!!
Oh, it doesn’t affect me