PU... PU's everywhere...
the odds of acquiring aegis increase tremendously as the fight progresses. It effectively nullifies counter-stealth tactics, which, if you have ever played a thief, are declared as being CC and burst, be it single target or AoE. With clones, obviously the AoE is more preferential.
I think you’ve somehow misinterpreted pretty much every ounce of counter-stealth tactics.
I am talking about actually shutting one down by killing it, and as any stealth build is countered, that comes from learning how to kill it in stealth
Yeah, you definitely have. Allow me to explain…
There are three steps to countering a bursty stealth build. The first is avoiding the burst from stealth. If you can do that, then you can survive the encounter. The second step is using various methods of control to prevent the opponent from reentering stealth. This allows for the third step, which is to burst them down.
You’ve misinterpreted this as being supposed to occur while they’re still in stealth, which is a ludicrous concept that will never work on either a good thief or a good Mesmer.
Even if the mesmer reveals himself for a very brief period of time,
Very brief period of time? Let’s have a reality check here. This is a Mesmer, not a d/p thief, and we have limited ways of entering stealth. Torch 4, decoy, and mass invis (veil isn’t used in pvp). While PU extends the duration of the stealth, actually entering stealth is limited to those 3 skills, and that means a quality player can know when the Mesmer is vulnerable.
[quote=5473883;DeceiverX.8361:but any thief worth his salt playing D/P will not use IArrow as a reposition tool during combat to enable a damage sequence (AKA, switching from shortbow) because he will not have the initiative to reliably commit to a fight again[/quote]
Uh, no. A d/p thief doesn’t use iArrow to engage simply because they have both steal and shadow shot. When a d/p thief engages, the only place they want to go is next to their target. This means that they have multiple extremely effective methods of doing so without even needing a targeted blink.
Targeted blinks only matter for pure mobility purposes. Given that iArrow has no cooldown, its lesser range is vastly superseded by the fact that it can be spammed for rapid movement.
Fortunately for PU condi mesmer, it isn’t really reliant on crits.
Wrong again. Sharper images provides a substantial amount of pressure throughout the duration of a fight on condie Mesmer. Additionally, mesmers gain vigor on crit, which translates not only to more defense from dodging, but more offense from dodge clones. Crits are an integral part of pretty much every Mesmer build in the game, and condie Mesmer is no exception to that rule.
Dire and Perplexity made it into the test server for PvP and internally.
This is simply a lie. How could you speak with such authority on the matter without breaking an NDA, since we all know that Anet is famously tight-lipped about internal testing.
and PU (assuming you meant perplexity here) went through several iterations with a planned release in the initial game on 4/15/14. Results from the test server and community theorycrafting from those on not on the test server created a huge outrage that proved mathematically that the runes, even in post-nerf state, were too powerful for the live game and would destruct the format as a whole.
Yeah, this is a lie as well. Proof is simple. If you actually had any true knowledge about what went on in the testing server, you’d be under NDA to Anet. If you’re under NDA to Anet, you’re obligated not to discuss what happens on the testing server, but here you are talking about what happened on the testing server. Breaking NDA gets you banned, but to the disappointment of all, that’s obviously not the case.
As far as WvW goes, it’s a frequent complaint in-game.
No, it’s a frequent complaint among bad players/groups that don’t know how to sweep. Luckily, at least t2 and up figured out how to sweep a long time ago and don’t have that issue.
As far as countering players while they are still in stealth, I do it consistently and frequently. I am well-regarded as a thief for my history of frequently killing other thieves while they are in stealth, including positional backstabs. I would say in around 3/4 of the fights I play against competent thieves, I kill them while they are invisible using single-target abilities by learning their movement patterns on the fly and with a genuine understanding of how their build designates certain patterns, cooldown memorization, and so on. Strictly speaking, most thieves built on stealth do a better job against me by spamming Shadow Shot for blind pressure to negate burst than attempting re-positions and stealth play because usually I’m too much on top of them. It is in this echelon of play, by attempting to use an extreme analysis of the opponent that I designate as smart play, and PU subsequently negates this kind of play. Even if the boons stayed, but appeared in a specific order, I could determine exactly how much damage I would be doing, when the negation would go into effect, etc., as normal during combat.
Went to edit that typo above (PU vs Perplex) and forums stopped responding.
There was public discussion from the developers and internal testers a long time ago regarding the 4/15 patch and dire gear came out way early after MF was removed as a stat, both of which were during a different time when ANet was much more open about its changes and upcoming changes. Do some googling?
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/ES-Suggestion-The-Deadeye-FORMAL/
(edited by DeceiverX.8361)
Honestly after playing Herald with its 20 second cooldown revealed skill, I don’t think PU really needs it duration nerfed anymore.
I still think there needs to be slightly more revealed in the game and better ways to apply it, since right now only some engineers and revenants will bring revealed into a pvp match at a competitive level, when its arguably thematically fitting that mesmer/necro/thief should have some access to it.
On another note, I’m floored with how little boon-rip has been given out to HoT exclusive stuff. Like none of the elite specs got it, just mallyx and corruption.
Taking a break from GW2 to play various
Nintendo games..
PU 4 LIFE! let them use there meta Burn!
I don’t understand why people think PU should exist. It’s like saying Turret Engi was healthy for the game really.
I don’t understand why people think PU should exist. It’s like saying Turret Engi was healthy for the game really.
I see, so you think turrets shouldn’t be viable then?
It was fine at 1 second which is the baffling part. If you had trouble as a mesmer with +1second on PU it was a L2P issue, not a game mechanics issue. Of all the things that needed improving on the mesmer PU wasnt one of them.
[lion]~ riperonis
[tRex]
It was fine at 1 second which is the baffling part. If you had trouble as a mesmer with +1second on PU it was a L2P issue, not a game mechanics issue. Of all the things that needed improving on the mesmer PU wasnt one of them.
Do note that the buff to PU corresponds to the loss of clone death traits, which were a valuable defensive element for mesmers. I don’t doubt that PU was part of an attempt to compensate for that loss (since there really wasn’t one elsewhere).
It was fine at 1 second which is the baffling part. If you had trouble as a mesmer with +1second on PU it was a L2P issue, not a game mechanics issue. Of all the things that needed improving on the mesmer PU wasnt one of them.
Do note that the buff to PU corresponds to the loss of clone death traits, which were a valuable defensive element for mesmers. I don’t doubt that PU was part of an attempt to compensate for that loss (since there really wasn’t one elsewhere).
So they got rid of the passive play clone death traits for ……. camp stealth and amass boons passive play. Not really a great leap forward in active game play.
[lion]~ riperonis
[tRex]
It was fine at 1 second which is the baffling part. If you had trouble as a mesmer with +1second on PU it was a L2P issue, not a game mechanics issue. Of all the things that needed improving on the mesmer PU wasnt one of them.
Do note that the buff to PU corresponds to the loss of clone death traits, which were a valuable defensive element for mesmers. I don’t doubt that PU was part of an attempt to compensate for that loss (since there really wasn’t one elsewhere).
So they got rid of the passive play clone death traits for ……. camp stealth and amass boons passive play. Not really a great leap forward in active game play.
I still regard it as a step forward, largely because clone death traits knotted up mesmer balance a fair bit. These days we can actually tell people to just kill the clones, and it’s meaningful counterplay. That comes along with PU really only being an issue in WvW roaming (in sPvP it’s used exactly as what it was meant to be: a decent defense trait).
Unfortunately, that leaves our clones dying at extremely high rates with no penalty, exacerbating one of our greatest weaknesses.
I could see nerfing PU, but I think it needs to be a more involved change than just nerfing it and leaving it. PU in the state you suggested would not be worthy of a GM slot (especially not one in competition with Chaotic Interruption and Bountiful Disillusionment). If it demands a nerf, I’d suggest doing so, moving it down to Master, and filling its spot with a real replacement for Clone Death, one that doesn’t create difficult incentives.
TBH though, I’m just really happy to have enough stealth to fill in for thieves on skips. Nerfing PU would take that away, which would be a definite hit to mesmers in dungeons.
Edit: though I guess with Shadow Refuge being what it is, it wouldn’t be too bad to just turn MI up to 9s, and Veil up to 4?
(edited by AlphatheWhite.9351)
Imo the people that want to nerf pu will cause a nerf to the Mesmer being represented in pvp. It allows Mesmer to compete with a thief and plus 1 a fight. We all have roles and that sends Mesmer back to pre patch days.
Also the mindless thoughts of clone death go hand in hand with mindless cleave. Remove cleave to effect our illusions then we would be on equal ground.
Imo the people that want to nerf pu will cause a nerf to the Mesmer being represented in pvp. It allows Mesmer to compete with a thief and plus 1 a fight. We all have roles and that sends Mesmer back to pre patch days.
I think the argument is that the mesmer no longer competes, they outright replace the thief.
[lion]~ riperonis
[tRex]
Imo the people that want to nerf pu will cause a nerf to the Mesmer being represented in pvp. It allows Mesmer to compete with a thief and plus 1 a fight. We all have roles and that sends Mesmer back to pre patch days.
I think the argument is that the mesmer no longer competes, they outright replace the thief.
Well, tell me…were thieves not represented in the tourneys?
There’s a reason why PU is called PU.
It’s because it smells so bad kinda like the people who play this skill-less tasteless anti-fun build.
And I don’t need to explain why PU means it smells bad either. If ANET wants casuals to play the game, they need to delete underhanded annoying builds that “may not be viable in team play but still manages braindead garbage and anti-fun to play against.”
Imo the people that want to nerf pu will cause a nerf to the Mesmer being represented in pvp. It allows Mesmer to compete with a thief and plus 1 a fight. We all have roles and that sends Mesmer back to pre patch days.
I think the argument is that the mesmer no longer competes, they outright replace the thief.
I think that is a little to soon to tell. The role to plus 1 has options now. All I meant. Mesmer still is not on equal ground in representation.
There’s a reason why PU is called PU.
It’s because it smells so bad kinda like the people who play this skill-less tasteless anti-fun build.
And I don’t need to explain why PU means it smells bad either. If ANET wants casuals to play the game, they need to delete underhanded annoying builds that “may not be viable in team play but still manages braindead garbage and anti-fun to play against.”
You could attempt to make some legitimate arguments against PU, and people have. But yours is a bonified, genuine example of scrub talk.
You’ve offered absolutely nothing to the discussion.
Mesmer’s stealth shouldn’t be compared to thief. Thieves are probably the squishiest things in the game when you get one pinned down, and they have to be in melee range range to do any meaningful damage. Stealth and evades are really the only thing keeping them breathing.
I hate thieves as much as the next mesmer, but I can still look at things in neutral perspective.
I think PU is overpowered, but my feelings against it aren’t as strong as most people’s. The real beef I have with the trait is that the change to it was cheap, and doesn’t encourage more skillful or interesting play.
WvW Roaming with Mesmer
Mesmer’s stealth shouldn’t be compared to thief. Thieves are probably the squishiest things in the game when you get one pinned down, and they have to be in melee range range to do any meaningful damage. Stealth and evades are really the only thing keeping them breathing.
I hate thieves as much as the next mesmer, but I can still look at things in neutral perspective.I think PU is overpowered, but my feelings against it aren’t as strong as most people’s. The real beef I have with the trait is that the change to it was cheap, and doesn’t encourage more skillful or interesting play.
Like the thief pressing 1 button in stealth? Or the damage reduction trait in stealth. Moving faster in stealth. Higher crit chance in stealth. Or the fact that it was the only class that could plus 1 a fight or take that roll and be successful.
Mesmer’s stealth shouldn’t be compared to thief. Thieves are probably the squishiest things in the game when you get one pinned down, and they have to be in melee range range to do any meaningful damage. Stealth and evades are really the only thing keeping them breathing.
I hate thieves as much as the next mesmer, but I can still look at things in neutral perspective.I think PU is overpowered, but my feelings against it aren’t as strong as most people’s. The real beef I have with the trait is that the change to it was cheap, and doesn’t encourage more skillful or interesting play.
Thieves have an incomparable ability to kite/dance around an engagement, biding their time to choose when to strike, able to wear a target down (or catch one warn down), because they have so much front loaded instant damage- having to “get into melee” is irrelevant. So yes, perspective is everything.
I know I’m truly in danger when I cross paths with a patient thief.
Mesmer’s stealth shouldn’t be compared to thief. Thieves are probably the squishiest things in the game when you get one pinned down, and they have to be in melee range range to do any meaningful damage. Stealth and evades are really the only thing keeping them breathing.
I hate thieves as much as the next mesmer, but I can still look at things in neutral perspective.I think PU is overpowered, but my feelings against it aren’t as strong as most people’s. The real beef I have with the trait is that the change to it was cheap, and doesn’t encourage more skillful or interesting play.
Thieves have an incomparable ability to kite/dance around an engagement, biding their time to choose when to strike, able to wear a target down (or catch one warn down), because they have so much front loaded instant damage- having to “get into melee” is irrelevant. So yes, perspective is everything.
I know I’m truly in danger when I cross paths with a patient thief.
Mesmers have quite a bit of instant damage aswell.
WvW Roaming with Mesmer
Mesmer’s stealth shouldn’t be compared to thief. Thieves are probably the squishiest things in the game when you get one pinned down, and they have to be in melee range range to do any meaningful damage. Stealth and evades are really the only thing keeping them breathing.
I hate thieves as much as the next mesmer, but I can still look at things in neutral perspective.I think PU is overpowered, but my feelings against it aren’t as strong as most people’s. The real beef I have with the trait is that the change to it was cheap, and doesn’t encourage more skillful or interesting play.
Thieves have an incomparable ability to kite/dance around an engagement, biding their time to choose when to strike, able to wear a target down (or catch one warn down), because they have so much front loaded instant damage- having to “get into melee” is irrelevant. So yes, perspective is everything.
I know I’m truly in danger when I cross paths with a patient thief.
Mesmers have quite a bit of instant damage aswell.
if by instant you meant weapon skills tied to illusions that must survive in order to cause damage then sure. Our personal dps is in the gutter. Hence the crying over pu since it lets you stealth burst taking a target by surprise. The same principals apply to a thief need to always assume someone is watching waiting to get you.
Mesmer’s stealth shouldn’t be compared to thief. Thieves are probably the squishiest things in the game when you get one pinned down, and they have to be in melee range range to do any meaningful damage. Stealth and evades are really the only thing keeping them breathing.
I hate thieves as much as the next mesmer, but I can still look at things in neutral perspective.I think PU is overpowered, but my feelings against it aren’t as strong as most people’s. The real beef I have with the trait is that the change to it was cheap, and doesn’t encourage more skillful or interesting play.
Thieves have an incomparable ability to kite/dance around an engagement, biding their time to choose when to strike, able to wear a target down (or catch one warn down), because they have so much front loaded instant damage- having to “get into melee” is irrelevant. So yes, perspective is everything.
I know I’m truly in danger when I cross paths with a patient thief.
Mesmers have quite a bit of instant damage aswell.
Aside from what was just pointed out, while we might have quite a bit of “instant” damage aswell, Mesmer can’t kite/dance around in quite the same way a Thief can.
We do have a few other tricks up our sleeves, but that’s beside the point :)
Mesmer’s stealth shouldn’t be compared to thief. Thieves are probably the squishiest things in the game when you get one pinned down, and they have to be in melee range range to do any meaningful damage. Stealth and evades are really the only thing keeping them breathing.
I hate thieves as much as the next mesmer, but I can still look at things in neutral perspective.I think PU is overpowered, but my feelings against it aren’t as strong as most people’s. The real beef I have with the trait is that the change to it was cheap, and doesn’t encourage more skillful or interesting play.
Thieves have an incomparable ability to kite/dance around an engagement, biding their time to choose when to strike, able to wear a target down (or catch one warn down), because they have so much front loaded instant damage- having to “get into melee” is irrelevant. So yes, perspective is everything.
I know I’m truly in danger when I cross paths with a patient thief.
Mesmers have quite a bit of instant damage aswell.
if by instant you meant weapon skills tied to illusions that must survive in order to cause damage then sure. Our personal dps is in the gutter. Hence the crying over pu since it lets you stealth burst taking a target by surprise. The same principals apply to a thief need to always assume someone is watching waiting to get you.
Mirror blade + MW from stealth is pretty much as instant as backstab.
WvW Roaming with Mesmer
Mesmer’s stealth shouldn’t be compared to thief. Thieves are probably the squishiest things in the game when you get one pinned down, and they have to be in melee range range to do any meaningful damage. Stealth and evades are really the only thing keeping them breathing.
I hate thieves as much as the next mesmer, but I can still look at things in neutral perspective.I think PU is overpowered, but my feelings against it aren’t as strong as most people’s. The real beef I have with the trait is that the change to it was cheap, and doesn’t encourage more skillful or interesting play.
Thieves have an incomparable ability to kite/dance around an engagement, biding their time to choose when to strike, able to wear a target down (or catch one warn down), because they have so much front loaded instant damage- having to “get into melee” is irrelevant. So yes, perspective is everything.
I know I’m truly in danger when I cross paths with a patient thief.
Mesmers have quite a bit of instant damage aswell.
if by instant you meant weapon skills tied to illusions that must survive in order to cause damage then sure. Our personal dps is in the gutter. Hence the crying over pu since it lets you stealth burst taking a target by surprise. The same principals apply to a thief need to always assume someone is watching waiting to get you.
Mirror blade + MW from stealth is pretty much as instant as backstab.
The tell is a giant flying gs coming at you. Much more than other.
And that was already nerfed.
Mesmer’s stealth shouldn’t be compared to thief. Thieves are probably the squishiest things in the game when you get one pinned down, and they have to be in melee range range to do any meaningful damage. Stealth and evades are really the only thing keeping them breathing.
I hate thieves as much as the next mesmer, but I can still look at things in neutral perspective.I think PU is overpowered, but my feelings against it aren’t as strong as most people’s. The real beef I have with the trait is that the change to it was cheap, and doesn’t encourage more skillful or interesting play.
Thieves have an incomparable ability to kite/dance around an engagement, biding their time to choose when to strike, able to wear a target down (or catch one warn down), because they have so much front loaded instant damage- having to “get into melee” is irrelevant. So yes, perspective is everything.
I know I’m truly in danger when I cross paths with a patient thief.
Mesmers have quite a bit of instant damage aswell.
if by instant you meant weapon skills tied to illusions that must survive in order to cause damage then sure. Our personal dps is in the gutter. Hence the crying over pu since it lets you stealth burst taking a target by surprise. The same principals apply to a thief need to always assume someone is watching waiting to get you.
Mirror blade + MW from stealth is pretty much as instant as backstab.
The tell is a giant flying gs coming at you. Much more than other.
That’s why you do it from close range.
WvW Roaming with Mesmer
Mesmer’s stealth shouldn’t be compared to thief. Thieves are probably the squishiest things in the game when you get one pinned down, and they have to be in melee range range to do any meaningful damage. Stealth and evades are really the only thing keeping them breathing.
I hate thieves as much as the next mesmer, but I can still look at things in neutral perspective.I think PU is overpowered, but my feelings against it aren’t as strong as most people’s. The real beef I have with the trait is that the change to it was cheap, and doesn’t encourage more skillful or interesting play.
Thieves have an incomparable ability to kite/dance around an engagement, biding their time to choose when to strike, able to wear a target down (or catch one warn down), because they have so much front loaded instant damage- having to “get into melee” is irrelevant. So yes, perspective is everything.
I know I’m truly in danger when I cross paths with a patient thief.
Mesmers have quite a bit of instant damage aswell.
if by instant you meant weapon skills tied to illusions that must survive in order to cause damage then sure. Our personal dps is in the gutter. Hence the crying over pu since it lets you stealth burst taking a target by surprise. The same principals apply to a thief need to always assume someone is watching waiting to get you.
Mirror blade + MW from stealth is pretty much as instant as backstab.
The tell is a giant flying gs coming at you. Much more than other.
Even at point blank range the projectile animation makes a moments appearance on screen. Unless you’re locking the target down with a stun, they can dodge.
Backstab has no animation. Stun is not necessary for the thief.
The tell is a giant flying gs coming at you. Much more than other.
The problem is this happens from stealth at point blank range at the same time as a confounding suggestions 1 second stun from mantra of distraction and a mind wrack.
But yes if the mesmer is a noob and lines it up from 1200 rng it’s easily avoidable.
[lion]~ riperonis
[tRex]
The tell is a giant flying gs coming at you. Much more than other.
The problem is this happens from stealth at point blank range at the same time as a confounding suggestions 1 second stun from mantra of distraction and a mind wrack.
But yes if the mesmer is a noob and lines it up from 1200 rng it’s easily avoidable.
At this point you’re adding in resources like a mantra and confounding suggestions to get the same effect as a thief backstab combo (since the mirror blade nerf, anyway). How much do you have to add to the build to make the mesmer work like a thief before it’s okay to fill a similar niche?
Come to think of it, where are the 3 illusions coming from for this super-mind wrack combo? Mirror Blade gives 1, but this build is Dom/Illusions/Chaos, it doesn’t have DE to make a dodge clone…
(edited by AlphatheWhite.9351)
I can’t even remember the last time I was actually hit by a full Mirror blade + MindWrack + MindStab combo. (You know… the only way they do real burst damage)
Maybe it’s because I pay attention and dodge? Or slot in some defensive skills? Possibly.
Come to think of it, where are the 3 illusions coming from for this super-mind wrack combo? Mirror Blade gives 1, but this build is Dom/Illusions/Chaos, it doesn’t have DE to make a dodge clone…
The combo is usually done with 1 clone. And why the build has to be dom/chaos/illu instead of dom/duel/chaos?
WvW Roaming with Mesmer
Come to think of it, where are the 3 illusions coming from for this super-mind wrack combo? Mirror Blade gives 1, but this build is Dom/Illusions/Chaos, it doesn’t have DE to make a dodge clone…
The combo is usually done with 1 clone. And why the build has to be dom/chaos/illu instead of dom/duel/chaos?
It doesn’t. That said, a 1 clone MR might not be enough damage -_-u
As for MoD, if we’re gonna talk “meta” builds there’s no room for it after decoy, blink, and portal D:
Even then, you only have 2 MoD charges, and even if you land a burst with those two after that you have the mantra on CD + recharge time when you can get to it. Thief has his backstab whenever stealthed.
Right. So today I learned that there’s no counterplay to backstab, and mesmers burst from stealth is easily avoided.
Doesn’t change my opinion that mesmer’s stealth shouldn’t be on par with thief’s with just one(or two) trait point.
WvW Roaming with Mesmer
Okay let me just throw in my [b] opinion [\B] in on this:
PU is okay on burst mesmers, since they are squishy anyway and have to get out of stealth to deal their damage to you. Its their form of defense, just like a thief.
On a condi mesmer my opinion is rotated. Their clones will deal strong ammounts of damage while they can remain in stealth. Sure your scepter 3 and shatter 2 reveal, but its burst condi and you can play passive condi by summoning clones in stealth. This is an unhealthy gameplay.
Anyway it remains an opinion and I do not claim its overpowered, just unhealthy/ skill cap too low in relation to the results.
Doesn’t change my opinion that mesmer’s stealth shouldn’t be on par with thief’s with just one(or two) trait point.
Except
1. It isn’t. Even selecting the 1 grandmaster trait and bugged adept trait available to make it competitive, Mesmer stealth pales in comparison to what a thief can put out. Fixing that bugged trait(as they should) is just gonna make the gap even bigger.
2. It was already abundantly pointed out that thieves get a lot of perks from their stealth that mesmers do not. 25% damage reduction, healing in stealth, cleanse while stealthed, etc., make thief stealth better than mesmer stealth, even ignoring the durations and access options.
3. Why the hell not? If the burst from stealth is inferior as you just conceded, why is it not okay to have two heavy stealth classes instead of just one? Is it really so important that thieves get to be special snowflakes with the only access to invisibility? How does that even make sense beyond some ridiculous appeal to MMO tradition?
Anyway it remains an opinion and I do not claim its overpowered, just unhealthy/ skill cap too low in relation to the results.
Except it doesn’t get good results. Trying to use clones to apply decent conditions from stealth doesn’t give good results mainly because clones die too easily, and you can’t defend them without coming out of stealth.
(Of course I tried it, it does sound like a fun troll)
It used to make more sense when killing the clones applied conditions, but that went away with the patch.
Doesn’t change my opinion that mesmer’s stealth shouldn’t be on par with thief’s with just one(or two) trait point.
Except
1. It isn’t. Even selecting the 1 grandmaster trait and bugged adept trait available to make it competitive, Mesmer stealth pales in comparison to what a thief can put out. Fixing that bugged trait(as they should) is just gonna make the gap even bigger.
2. It was already abundantly pointed out that thieves get a lot of perks from their stealth that mesmers do not. 25% damage reduction, healing in stealth, cleanse while stealthed, etc., make thief stealth better than mesmer stealth, even ignoring the durations and access options.
3. Why the hell not? If the burst from stealth is inferior as you just conceded, why is it not okay to have two heavy stealth classes instead of just one? Is it really so important that thieves get to be special snowflakes with the only access to invisibility? How does that even make sense beyond some ridiculous appeal to MMO tradition?
1&2. I didn’t say it is. I said it shouldn’t be. As in you can’t compare mesmer’s stealth to thief’s, that uses over one whole traitline to support that mechanic, and whose class is basically designed around stealth.
3. I guess sarcasm doesn’t work over the internet. MB+MW combo from stealth is a bit inferior to backstab, sure. But I don’t think it’s as bad and easily avoided as people make it seem to be.
WvW Roaming with Mesmer
I think i’m not the only mesmer to think that if You are going to play your meta.. I’m gonna play my meta! Only fare.
Nerfffff! the burns…
Anyone ever wonder why 90% of complaints about PU always come from thieves?
The answer is that PU allows mesmers to compete with thieves, both in a direct contest and for a similar role on a team. Previously, thieves had no competition for roaming ganker/backcapper. Now they do, and apparently it stings.
why is it not okay to have two heavy stealth classes instead of just one? Is it really so important that thieves get to be special snowflakes with the only access to invisibility? How does that even make sense beyond some ridiculous appeal to MMO tradition?
Oh, and I don’t have a problem with having 2 stealth heavy classes in game. But you can’t just take something from another class and slap it to another. Otherwise you could just take the strenghts from each class, mush it into one profession and call it balanced because “well the -insert class- has it so why is it OP on me?”
WvW Roaming with Mesmer
Anyone ever wonder why 90% of complaints about PU always come from thieves?
The answer is that PU allows mesmers to compete with thieves, both in a direct contest and for a similar role on a team. Previously, thieves had no competition for roaming ganker/backcapper. Now they do, and apparently it stings.
I think about 90% of all complaints across these forums is by thieves.
WvW Roaming with Mesmer
Anyone ever wonder why 90% of complaints about PU always come from thieves?
The answer is that PU allows mesmers to compete with thieves, both in a direct contest and for a similar role on a team. Previously, thieves had no competition for roaming ganker/backcapper. Now they do, and apparently it stings.
I think about 90% of all complaints across these forums is by thieves.
…this is true. I suppose that skews the sampling a little bit. Certainly raises other questions though.
I think it’s because the thief/rogue archetype: hiding in stealth and bursting enemies down in an instant: naturally attracts players who like to win without effort.
(edited by Embolism.8106)
Makes you think how nice it would be if you could see a breakdown of top 3 or so most played professions/characters per account (or a full breakdown in profile).
You know, it’s funny people talk about the burst from stealth. I worked it out in the PvP forums, mug with backstab and executioner will do about the same as a mirror blade mind wrack assuming Mesmer gets the full mind wrack damage bonus.
Interesting thing is that a thief can follow it up with either a 4k auto, 4k shadowshot and then do the backstab again in 5s time. A Mesmer can only follow it up with iZerker and mind stab and then must wait 12s. They could switch and blurred frenzy but I would assume competent players have dodged out of the way by that point, and no, they won’t be downed by it either even running marauder and having light armour.
As for the comment earlier about “you can’t just take one thing from a class and slap it on another”, they’re kinda doing that all across the expansion, wells, physical skills, thief is getting Mesmer type interrupt and just as Mesmer stealth is inferior to thieves so to is theirs slightly inferior to mesmer.
As for PU, it’s fine as is. It’s a GM, build defining trait which is exactly what ANet wanted. It wasn’t fine at +1 second as only 1 build in 1 game mode ever took it. Before the boon nerf power builds could take it for the guarantee of something defensive when they stealth, afterwards it was not worth it at all which is why they went for IP as being able to use distortion whenever was more viable.
As for the comment earlier about “you can’t just take one thing from a class and slap it on another”, they’re kinda doing that all across the expansion, wells, physical skills, thief is getting Mesmer type interrupt and just as Mesmer stealth is inferior to thieves so to is theirs slightly inferior to mesmer.
That’s different. Every class gets something.
If you just simply add the strengths of one class to another, it’s pretty obvious that’s not balanced.
WvW Roaming with Mesmer
I think it’s because the thief/rogue archtype: hiding in stealth and bursting enemies down in an instant: naturally attracts players who like to win without effort.
Is this why the #1 played class in GW2 is ele, and you see ele’s in multiple figures holding down capture points?
I think it’s because the thief/rogue archetype: hiding in stealth and bursting enemies down in an instant: naturally attracts players who like to win without effort.
Is this why the #1 played class in GW2 is ele, and you see ele’s in multiple figures holding down capture points?
I don’t mean in terms of game balance, I mean in terms of the feel of the archetype. That said, I wouldn’t be surprised if there are more former Thieves that jumped on the Ele bandwagon than other professions.
(edited by Embolism.8106)