Guild Wars 2

PU condi mes is the cheesiest build that WVW has seen. I will say worse than Condi thief. I had a PU shatter interrupt mez switch to it because he couldnt beat my engi then proceeded to say it wasnt cheese. Take off the training wheels mesmers, you are better than that….

I’m inclined to agree with you, but i know that many follow mesmers here don’t, so better prepare for a verbal Pyro beating.

Iavra.8510:

I’m inclined to agree with you, but i know that many follow mesmers here don’t, so better prepare for a verbal Pyro beating.

I started out as mesmer. I literally threw away my condi gear because I felt PU was too strong and cheesy, that was a year ago. If you play PU condi thats fine, just dont act like its not by far the easiest class to play in WVW.

A year ago the situation was a bit different. PU was only +1s, which by itself is not too strong, but gives you a slight edge in mesmer vs mesmer situations (which is ok, because you were giving up on, say, IP). On the other hand, you had clone death traits, which were the actual reason that build was faceroll.

Now, clone death is gone, but PU got buffed and those 3-5 extra seconds actually make a big difference. The trait revamp also made PU more accessible, so it’s basically mandatory for every mesmer that wants to roam/duel (i know, not what the game is balanced for) and doesn’t want to be fodder for his/her fellow mesmers.

To the op what build where you using as an engy? If he continued to run into the brick wall and lose would that make him a better player? He tried then switched builds and beat you. Sounds reasonable to me.

I understand power mesmers running PU. I dont consider PU shatter mes all that easy and its not cheese IMO. PU condi mesmer with staff scepter torch running perplexity is so face roll its not even funny. I had a Mesmer last night who said it was on the same level as condi engineer (non burn engi).

I run dual pistol condi engi (non burn). The little guy would try to shatter burst me and run if he didnt hit the first time. He let the QQ go strong when I caught him (we took SM) So he proceeded to switch to Condi Mes running perplexity and said it was on the same… I guess baby girl hasnt been playing for long. Funny thing is I managed to down him a couple times…

Iavra.8510:

Now, clone death is gone, but PU got buffed and those 3-5 extra seconds actually make a big difference. The trait revamp also made PU more accessible, so it’s basically mandatory for every mesmer that wants to roam/duel (i know, not what the game is balanced for) and doesn’t want to be fodder for his/her fellow mesmers.

For mesmers not running traveler runes and it’s not just against other mesmers.

Thieves, warriors with that excessive mobility (though it is tuned down a bit), to some degree engy and rangers (swoop is great disengage, so is sword) and elementalists all have more than enough ways to chase or get away from a Mesmer without traveler runes.

As for the topic. Condi mesmer excels at killing stupid people. However, I will say condition transfer should be immune to blind and the on activate skill portion of confusion imo.

I agree you can run from condi mesmers in most situations with speed, however I dont run swiftness. The massive amount of teleports and stacking confusion (which now ticks for dps when not using a skill as well) pretty much ensures that if you have to run for any length on a non condi cleansing class a pretty difficult task. You most likely going to be jumped by another player before you can escape. I dont ever stay and fight a PU condi mesmer because its cheese factor

Once they fix the torch trait the it should fall into line a bit more…maybe I should say if they fix it instead of say nerfing iDefender or something way off the mark.

One of the main problems I find with condi mesmers is they run pledge and PU which gives ridiculous stealth uptime as you essentially make the torch stealth have anything from a 13-20s CD.

Condi PU is useful literally only for WvW roaming and nothing else. There are lots of things that have been said already about why balancing around WvW in general and WvW roaming in particular doesn’t really make sense, but I think I might go so far as to assert that roaming as a WvW playstyle would be literally impossible without cheese builds.

I mean, a build that can survive 1vX for an indefinite period of time while picking off isolated stragglers is the definition of cheese, but you can’t roam without a build that can survive 1vX for an indefinite period of time while picking off isolated stragglers.

The Pledge really needs to have been fixed like a month and a half ago for lots of other reasons, but apart from that I don’t see the point in nerfing something that’s only strong in an area of the game that is fundamentally, at its core, only able to exist because of imbalanced builds.

Tab nailed it on the head. A condition mesmer, with perplexity runes “roaming” in wvw is someone just looking to duel, in there build powerful for dueling. They offer very little in ZvZ combat. They will have trouble keeping up with any group moving fast. And cannot stop a player from simply walking away from them. They are a slow moving spike wall, meandering around a wvw map that you gain nothing from fighting. People fight them, simply to lose to them, to come on the message boards and complain they can’t win an open world duel versus a dueling class in there non dueling build.

If i run into a Nike warrior, i just let him run away. I’m not chasing him across the map. I’m not out there to prove my superiority versus a class built to run away. If i come across a perma stealth tanky thief, i ignore him. He is nothing but an annoyance, built to delay me from my objective.

I think it’s funny people have to specify what class they tried to beat a PU mesmer with. “I was on my engineer, but not the super powerful burning engineer! That is on the no skill black list! And i need everyone to know my ability to push my keyboard far out weighs the other people pushing buttons on there keyboard!”

I’ve run PU when it was weak, when it was strong, and will run it when it’s weak again. I like the idea of a thief mage, that’s why i chose mesmer right from the gate. I like to be able to hide and get to my teammates in wvw. I enjoy dipping in and out of combat. When i do run across someone in wvw and we fight, i never assume it was my leet skill that put them down, or there keyboard mastery that beat me. There are so many factors out there, to consider.

What i do consider is weather an opponent is worth my time dealing with, or just ignoring.

Every build has its more powerful build. But the gap between PU condi mesmer is pretty significant. I I main an engi because its a fun high risk high reward class. It might have a super buff one day and that would be cool. But Mesmer is not a thief mage… when it has more than double the stealth of a stealth class (thief). If i want to be immortal for a night ill run a PU condi mesmer. I dont have a problem with PU shatter mesmers… yea they are hard but not immortal. But there is a reason that mesmers are everywhere in WVW atm. PU condi mesmer is simply a mesmer with training wheels… if that hurts your feelings Im sorry.

Gcostanza.2086:

PU condi mes is the cheesiest build that WVW has seen. I will say worse than Condi thief. I had a PU shatter interrupt mez switch to it because he couldnt beat my engi then proceeded to say it wasnt cheese. Take off the training wheels mesmers, you are better than that….

Basically, what I’m reading here is this:

“I got beaten by a PU condie mesmer last night in WvW while roaming. Instead of attempting to figure out counterplay for this build, I made a beeline for the forums to complain. I did this because complaining on the forums is easier than learning to play better.”

Maybe try bringing some condie removal next time?

It is the most passive play push 1 key occasionally in the game far too little risk for far too much reward.

If i see a build like this in WvW i just leave them be, they usually will be staff – scepter/torch and have minimal chase ability.

Main reason i benched my mesmer was the influx of mesmers running in WvW. Roaming on my engineer is like Mesmer Wars 2, every second roamer is a mesmer now with 80% of them PU/condi. People are not stupid, they will gravitate to the most efficient build that reaps the most rewards with minimal effort.

Having said that this game has never, and will never be balanced around 1v1, some builds are just far superior in these situations.

Chorazin.4107:

It is the most passive play push 1 key occasionally in the game far too little risk for far too much reward.

I’d love to see a video of you playing PU condie. I feel that it would be highly educational for all us plebs that use skills and stuff.

Chorazin.4107:

It is the most passive play push 1 key occasionally in the game far too little risk for far too much reward.

I’d like to see you try winning with the “push 1 key occasionally” method.

Fay.2357:

I’d love to see a video of you playing PU condie. I feel that it would be highly educational for all us plebs that use skills and stuff.

I do have a condi mesmer that i dont play anymore, im looking into group options for him, glamours and such, I mostly play engi now for solo roaming.

I have a question, do you have another class that you play WvW with other than mesmer?

Chorazin.4107:

Fay.2357:

I’d love to see a video of you playing PU condie. I feel that it would be highly educational for all us plebs that use skills and stuff.

I do have a condi mesmer that i dont play anymore, im looking into group options for him, glamours and such, I mostly play engi now for solo roaming.

I have a question, do you have another class that you play WvW with other than mesmer?

Still waiting for this miraculous 1-button wonder PU mes WvW video. Once you get us that, I’ll entertain questions.

Step 1
Have a full condi mesmer in illusions, perplexity runes and duration food

Step 2
Cast confusing images

Step 3
Have your opponent do fast auto-attack 10+ times without cleansing it.

Bam.
You have 1-button kill wonder.

Fay.2357:

Still waiting for this miraculous 1-button wonder PU mes WvW video. Once you get us that, I’ll entertain questions.

So im guessing that’s a no, it’s hard to take anything you say seriously until you have an objective point of view from playing multiple classes over an extended period of time. Not just a rose tinted view of the one class you will defend on any given point.

I did say and i quote “Main reason i benched my mesmer” This generally indicates that i have in fact benched my mesmer.

The 1 button was a throw away comment to indicate just how risk free the class is to play compared to other classes out there.

There is no doubt in my mind the game was never meant to be balanced around WvW 1v1 and for me that is why the PU/condi class is how it is.

But heres my burngineer video complete with some sloppy play to satisfy your need for moving images. Taken from the beta weekend, was hard to find decent fights as i was getting zerged more often than not.

~ https://vimeo.com/135843991 ~

Um I have and do play all classes in WvW but ranger. I can honestly say that the only way you’re able to use 1 button to kill someone with a PU condition Mesmer is if they’re a complete and utter moron.

Kinda works how NiceNikeshoes said, once again, only morons will get killed by that.

However I guess warriors with 100b but I think it falls into moron category if they literally used only that skill. Burn engy (assuming we don’t count using incendiary ammo pre fight) can literally kill people with one attack and it won’t even take long either, thought that falls into the shoulda cleansed category.

Edit: Pyro asked for a video of a mesmer using one skill and killing people not an engineer. As for the video itself, if that’s you in it doesn’t look like you’re having trouble at all and condi engineer is far stronger than mesmer due to more cover conditions.

Chorazin.4107:

Fay.2357:

Still waiting for this miraculous 1-button wonder PU mes WvW video. Once you get us that, I’ll entertain questions.

So im guessing that’s a no, it’s hard to take anything you say seriously until you have an objective point of view from playing multiple classes over an extended period of time. Not just a rose tinted view of the one class you will defend on any given point.

You haven’t got the most stable platform to speak from on matters of being taken seriously. When your first leap into a thread contains nothing but gross exaggeration and stale complaints, you’ve pretty much trashed any change you ever had of being taken seriously by any intelligent person here.

Fay.2357:

You haven’t got the most stable platform to speak from on matters of being taken seriously. When your first leap into a thread contains nothing but gross exaggeration and stale complaints, you’ve pretty much trashed any change you ever had of being taken seriously by any intelligent person here.

So, still only play mesmer? Im sorry you take offense to the fact that PU/perplexity condi mesmer is easy mode in a risk vs reward sense. This is why i asked if you actually play any other class in WvW other than just a mesmer. This would be beneficial when talking about balance issues if you had a bigger picture of how other classes perform in WvW.

From my burngineers perspective im advocating a nerf to burns, they are busted(with bleeds being a little underpowered). Sure, anet may nerf the hell out of burning killing my build but i feel it is better for the game as a whole. Im quite happy to look at it objectively and say ‘yeah, this could use some tuning’ because its a bit over the top. Even if that means the class/build im playing atm takes a hit.

Chorazin.4107:

Fay.2357:

Still waiting for this miraculous 1-button wonder PU mes WvW video. Once you get us that, I’ll entertain questions.

So im guessing that’s a no, it’s hard to take anything you say seriously until you have an objective point of view from playing multiple classes over an extended period of time. Not just a rose tinted view of the one class you will defend on any given point.

I did say and i quote “Main reason i benched my mesmer” This generally indicates that i have in fact benched my mesmer.

The 1 button was a throw away comment to indicate just how risk free the class is to play compared to other classes out there.

There is no doubt in my mind the game was never meant to be balanced around WvW 1v1 and for me that is why the PU/condi class is how it is.

But heres my burngineer video complete with some sloppy play to satisfy your need for moving images. Taken from the beta weekend, was hard to find decent fights as i was getting zerged more often than not.

~ https://vimeo.com/135843991 ~

Wait wait wait, wasnt there an actual 1 button push to win Engie skill post patch? Ok, ok, it was two presses since the skill was ground targeted -_-u

;D

Ross Biddle.2367:

Wait wait wait, wasnt there an actual 1 button push to win Engie skill post patch? Ok, ok, it was two presses since the skill was ground targeted -_-u

;D

Annnnnnd it got rightly nerfed.

Chorazin.4107:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Wait wait wait, wasnt there an actual 1 button push to win Engie skill post patch? Ok, ok, it was two presses since the skill was ground targeted -_-u

;D

Annnnnnd it got rightly nerfed.

I guess the day 1-button push PU one shots someone it’ll get rightly nerfed?

Ross Biddle.2367:

I guess the day 1-button push PU one shots someone it’ll get rightly nerfed?

PU is a core part of the problem, i roamed on PU with no issues when it had a 1 second increase in stealth time. If you were having trouble running mesmer when PU had a 1 second increase on stealth id say it’s a L2P issue.

It certainly didnt need a 100% increase in stealth uptime, but the thing is, as i stated, this game has never been balanced around 1v1 in WvW. Some specs/classes just perform better in these situations.

And im guessing in sPvP with no food buff and the fact you cannot cap a point in stealth it isnt really that much of an issue.

Chorazin.4107:

Ross Biddle.2367:

I guess the day 1-button push PU one shots someone it’ll get rightly nerfed?

PU is a core part of the problem, i roamed on PU with no issues when it had a 1 second increase in stealth time. If you were having trouble running mesmer when PU had a 1 second increase on stealth id say it’s a L2P issue.

It certainly didnt need a 100% increase in stealth uptime, but the thing is, as i stated, this game has never been balanced around 1v1 in WvW. Some specs/classes just perform better in these situations.

And im guessing in sPvP with no food buff and the fact you cannot cap a point in stealth it isnt really that much of an issue.

Right. PU is taken for its practical application to its intended goal. Realistically in WvW, apart from eliminating a Mesmer attempting to hide in a Keep for portal entry, there’s no reason to engage one (except maybe to defend a camp, which shouldn’t be a problem). In PvP it helps a roaming DPS backcapping Mesmer do his job better than without. Otherwise, so what? There’s stronger builds to serve different, more appropriate roles given the overall goals of these game modes. WvW- PPT/Large scale fights. PvP- node capping and holding, first to 500 wins.

If you want to kitten fight and choose to take or engage a PU Mesmer, that’s certainly your call. Just realize where the burden of responsibility lies. PU can be frustrating, but it’s certainly not going to outright stop you from play (i.e. one shot you without a stroke of luck).

i can give you some tips on fighting condi PU.

engage him when he is visible.
when he is invisible, run and leave his images behind or kill them fast if you can. turn around and engage again when he is visible.
pack -condi food and condi removal skills/traits.
dont shoot him when he is blocking.
dodge when he is doing a lengthy GS skill that does 5 stacks of confusion on you over time.
dodge through his shatter when you see his images running towards you enmasse.

Ross Biddle.2367:

If you want to kitten fight and choose to take or engage a PU Mesmer, that’s certainly your call. Just realize where the burden of responsibility lies. PU can be frustrating, but it’s certainly not going to outright stop you from play (i.e. one shot you without a stroke of luck).

Chorazin.4107:

If i see a build like this in WvW i just leave them be, they usually will be staff – scepter/torch and have minimal chase ability.

I think that sums it up as far as my take on fighting condi PU. The question then remains, is that balanced?

Chorazin.4107:

Ross Biddle.2367:

If you want to kitten fight and choose to take or engage a PU Mesmer, that’s certainly your call. Just realize where the burden of responsibility lies. PU can be frustrating, but it’s certainly not going to outright stop you from play (i.e. one shot you without a stroke of luck).

Chorazin.4107:

If i see a build like this in WvW i just leave them be, they usually will be staff – scepter/torch and have minimal chase ability.

I think that sums it up as far as my take on fighting condi PU. The question then remains, is that balanced?

Well, there’s plenty of discussion already on mobility. Of course some people say that you can outrun a PU condi mesmer is unfair/unbalanced, but certainly others who will disagree ;D

Chorazin.4107:

PU is a core part of the problem, i roamed on PU with no issues when it had a 1 second increase in stealth time. If you were having trouble running mesmer when PU had a 1 second increase on stealth id say it’s a L2P issue.

It certainly didnt need a 100% increase in stealth uptime, but the thing is, as i stated, this game has never been balanced around 1v1 in WvW. Some specs/classes just perform better in these situations.

And im guessing in sPvP with no food buff and the fact you cannot cap a point in stealth it isnt really that much of an issue.

Yeah I tried PU condi pre patch both pre nerf and post nerf. It wasn’t too hard to survive but then we had clone death traits which did the following:

1. Gave cover conditions.
2. Kept high amounts of cripple and moderate amounts of weakness up.

The last point is very crucial, you can escape even the most mobile builds if you keep them crippled with 4s of stealth. However we lost that unless you run that GS trait in which case you’re not likely to be a threatening condition build.

So now with losing out on cripple our escape is blink and….stealth. However 4s of stealth without traveler runes won’t help you do anything, you’re still going to get trained down and caught up by the mobile classes which is everything but necro and guard.

What the PU buff did do however was make the PU power shatter viable. It was viable pre patch and pre nerf as the boons were reliable to protect your glass kitten. Post nerf it was unviable in WvW as the boons weren’t enough and neither was the stealth. PvP other traits were just flat out better in illusions for the cost.

I am however waiting for the OP to show us a video of a one button press mesmer killing anyone who isn’t a legitimate (or illegitimate) moron.

I think the real problem here is the fact that conditions just last way to long without really investing in them. All you have to do is invest in condi damage and take the condi duration food. All the rest can be spend in defense. So you have a lot of stealth, blinds, block, invul, teleports, aegis, but even when you get hit, you still have high armor and vitality and probably even protection. That is the core problem with all heavy condition builds (although mesmer really can have this all in one build)
I think that all damage condition durations, should be lowered a lot (like 50 percent or even more) and make some armor that has for example 5 or 10 percent condi duration as a stat per piece.
Just my 2ct.

Condi damage is connected to a precision trait line meaning you would need to take precision to really max out your condi damage.

Hammerguard.9834:

Condi damage is connected to a precision trait line meaning you would need to take precision to really max out your condi damage.

Wut?

The condi damage trait is in Chaos, and is based on toughness, not precision.

Dueling, the only “precision” trait line, adds some access to condition sourcing via Sharper images, and shatter fodder via DE, but many condi builds go without it.

PU condi Mes is pretty ridiculous and yes it is by far the easiest 1vX build available in WvW roaming. But those “training wheels” have always provided some accessibility to the class that probably wouldn’t be there otherwise.

Generally it’s not a good idea to duel a PU condi Mesmer. You should have probably walked away at that point. You can very easily 1v4 a group with sub-par cleansing rotations on a condi PU build, so the odds of you winning against it in a 1v1 are very small indeed.

I like my PU Condi Mesmer in wvw.
Imo, would be nice to have some stability on shatter skills or Scepter/torch skills.

Also, it’s a bit unfair that Necro can walk with 2.5k Condition damage while mesmer has around 2k only.

Anet should boost condition damage for Mesmers.

Fay.2357:

Chorazin.4107:

Fay.2357:

I’d love to see a video of you playing PU condie. I feel that it would be highly educational for all us plebs that use skills and stuff.

I do have a condi mesmer that i dont play anymore, im looking into group options for him, glamours and such, I mostly play engi now for solo roaming.

I have a question, do you have another class that you play WvW with other than mesmer?

Still waiting for this miraculous 1-button wonder PU mes WvW video. Once you get us that, I’ll entertain questions.

Ohh pls pyro , stop hating people cause they are sayin ur spec is lame kitten , they are right you know .

This post…

Tao.1234:

I like my PU Condi Mesmer in wvw.
Imo, would be nice to have some stability on shatter skills or Scepter/torch skills.

Pro tip: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bountiful_Disillusionment

Tao.1234:

Also, it’s a bit unfair that Necro can walk with 2.5k Condition damage while mesmer has around 2k only.

Anet should boost condition damage for Mesmers.

…wat

Fay.2357:

This post…

Tao.1234:

I like my PU Condi Mesmer in wvw.
Imo, would be nice to have some stability on shatter skills or Scepter/torch skills.

Pro tip: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bountiful_Disillusionment

But Prismatic Understanding…
That’s why, Stability on Shatter should be baseline.

Fay.2357:

…wat

Anet should boost condition damage for Mesmers.

Tao.1234:

But Prismatic Understanding…
That’s why, Stability on Shatter should be baseline.

Yeah…no. No, it shouldn’t.

Tao.1234:

Anet should boost condition damage for Mesmers.

No. No, they shouldn’t.

Real quick journey into the build editor gets me 3600 condition damage on a mesmer: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAW7vkknhG0Ih4gMDQmXIA-T1xCABAcBAEa/hjfAAAqDwT1fSUJYWK/CAgAMzZGAG6QH6QH6Qb7CdmDdmzsUATKNC-w

That’s why I use lockdown instead of PU, even though PU is considered the meta roaming build. I’d rather struggle but feel good when I succeed than stop with a braindead build

Nubu.6148:

Fay.2357:

Chorazin.4107:

Fay.2357:

I’d love to see a video of you playing PU condie. I feel that it would be highly educational for all us plebs that use skills and stuff.

I do have a condi mesmer that i dont play anymore, im looking into group options for him, glamours and such, I mostly play engi now for solo roaming.

I have a question, do you have another class that you play WvW with other than mesmer?

Still waiting for this miraculous 1-button wonder PU mes WvW video. Once you get us that, I’ll entertain questions.

Ohh pls pyro , stop hating people cause they are sayin ur spec is lame kitten , they are right you know .

Ultimately, people like you will always be stuck scrub thinking. Since the devs don’t really pay much attention to these forums, I’m not too worried that all of the scrubbiness here is going to have much of an effect on the balance, so ultimately that’s not an issue for me. I just like to make sure that people who haven’t yet been sucked into the quagmire of scrub thinking have an intelligent second path to follow. When push comes to shove though, I’ll be happily steamrolling all the scrubs on a build that wins, and I enjoy your tears.

Real quick journey into the build editor gets me 3600 condition damage on a mesmer: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAW7vkknhG0Ih4gMDQmXIA-T1xCABAcBAEa/hjfAAAqDwT1fSUJYWK/CAgAMzZGAG6QH6QH6Qb7CdmDdmzsUATKNC-w

You mean 2600 condi, you’ll never get 3.6K condi… I run nearly exactly that build, and believe me, i’d be jumping for joy if i’d have 3.6K.

On the other hand, i don’t do WvW or PvP on mesmer. My condi NON PU mesmer is used mainly in SW, the only time i set my PU trait is for hidden depths (to stealth from the hounds in there when needed).

As for this :

Condi PU is useful literally only for WvW roaming and nothing else.

This is a pointless statement. The PU part i can understand, but a condi mesmer is so much more then a wvw roamer. At least for those of us who know how to play the class.

And for those interested : it takes less then 30 seconds to switch from condi mesmer to power mesmer if you have the gear and have the traits imprinted on your retina.

Sthenith.5196:

You mean 2600 condi, you’ll never get 3.6K condi… I run nearly exactly that build, and believe me, i’d be jumping for joy if i’d have 3.6K.

People usually include Might and Sigil stacks in their counts, so it’s ~3600, yeah.

Fay.2357:

Nubu.6148:

Fay.2357:

Chorazin.4107:

Fay.2357:

I’d love to see a video of you playing PU condie. I feel that it would be highly educational for all us plebs that use skills and stuff.

I do have a condi mesmer that i dont play anymore, im looking into group options for him, glamours and such, I mostly play engi now for solo roaming.

I have a question, do you have another class that you play WvW with other than mesmer?

Still waiting for this miraculous 1-button wonder PU mes WvW video. Once you get us that, I’ll entertain questions.

Ohh pls pyro , stop hating people cause they are sayin ur spec is lame kitten , they are right you know .

Ultimately, people like you will always be stuck scrub thinking. Since the devs don’t really pay much attention to these forums, I’m not too worried that all of the scrubbiness here is going to have much of an effect on the balance, so ultimately that’s not an issue for me. I just like to make sure that people who haven’t yet been sucked into the quagmire of scrub thinking have an intelligent second path to follow. When push comes to shove though, I’ll be happily steamrolling all the scrubs on a build that wins, and I enjoy your tears.

Oh pyro you pro . Be happy on steamrolling " scrubs " on your so pro pu condi build .

For real never met such a funny " thing " like you in my life .

Chorazin.4107:

I think that sums it up as far as my take on fighting condi PU. The question then remains, is that balanced?

Balanced against what? 1v1 versus a stealth-spamming thief? Probably not, the thief can disengage at will and hence can just trial&error until something sticks.

Balanced from a design perspective? I think the game needs more like it. Seriously.

This is a spec which, when someone wants to kill you, they’ll pay dearly for it. You can disappear, bleed them with conditions, you’re difficult to nail down, everything. The whole point of the good ol’ Blackwater build (that’s what we’re discussing here, btw).
Downside is just as big: You can’t actively kill, either. You rely on enemies wanting to fight you. If they just avoid you, you’re no threat to them and they ain’t any to you, either.

I think the game would benefit a lot from having specializations which actually feel specialized. If someone wants to build for highwayman gameplay, they ought to be ~impossible to take down 1v1 if their CDs are up (their downside would be the CD-dependency being baked into the upside). If someone wants to be tanky as hell, the only way to kill them would be to first kill everyone around them, then taking them down with sheer numbers (or ignoring them if solo).

Would it f*** over sPvP balance big time? Sure would, but that’s just one more upside, IMO. As in, you cannot have meaningful class design in a MMORPG if you want smallscale PvP to be balanced by player ability and not majorly decided by class+spec+gear. It doesn’t work. You can only ever have one of the two.

Stop complaining guys.
PU Condi mesmer is not that OP as you think so and need a bit of a boost anyway.

Tao.1234:

Stop complaining guys.
PU Condi mesmer is not that OP as you think so and need a bit of a boost anyway.

Yeah i think thats the point pyro want to sell the people in here xD ,