Guild Wars 2

what is the ‘Clone Death’?

does it mean Give enemy confusion when shatter clone?

The scepter buff puts a band aid on the weapon itself. The delivery speed of the bolt is the problem.

pu is complete garbage.. stop talking as if the spec is good. if you are dieing to a pu build you are the problem not them. especially if they are running 100 percent stealth up time. they do such little pressure that the whole spec is a waste of time for everyone on thier team.. and everyone on the enemy team.. they may as well be sitting in base afk.

a person who brings nothing to a team fight.. and also nothing to decapping nodes… plus no support… is a waste of space on a team and can be replaced by any other person in any other spec and your team would benefit.

if you think this complete weenie of a player who needs 100 percent up time from stealth is going to be auto attacking you with scepter.. you have never fought someone with pu.

people choose pu because they are so scared to fight they dont want to even show thier faces..

if they didnt play this way.. it would not be pu.. and pu would be a wasted trait for them.

anyone who has ever played mesmer since release and since before pu was buffed knows they do not need pu. shatter was the meta before this buff and people had to actually play mesmer.

once you have learned to play shatter pu is a waste of space because you know how to survive using your build and mesmers basic defensive skills.. and this translates to any spec you play from that point on.

if a mesmer isnt blowing its enemy up it is a waste of space.. unless you play some crazy support build.. which… ugggg.

shh with the pu.. i understand they may kill you if you fight them for long enough.. but just be happy that your enemy has that person on thier team over any other person..

because it is just giving you free points from holding bases that they have now way to contest in any fast manner.

blakdoxa.7520:

messiah.1908:

the fact ppl continue to forget is the pu OPiness isnt the DD trait alone

it is combination of both stealth and clone deaths trait

if you take out the stealth i am sure ppl wouldnt be so much unti for the clone death traits change

if the mesmer can use stealth efective as any thief it is worng for me (i play both thief and mesmer)

if the trait which gives boons on stealth would have been 3 boon for 3 sec and 15-20 sec cooldown it would push the pu mesmer to more tactical active game play and not just hiding and be immunie to attack from blocks and protection

also anet gave us torment and more conditions from AA and IE trait which should compenstate the loss from clone death traits while having to be more active in gameplay and not just spamming clone to death

They are both simply modifications to the AA… I don’t know how this is encouraging active gameplay. :|
Definitely not the torment change and IE adds additional damage through an extra bounce for Winds of Chaos, which deals condition damage….

What is going on here…. It’s more like stamping the seal of approval for passive mesmer gameplay…

maybe cause IE = staff? have you an idea of what you can actively do with a staff with every mesmer build? tons on video on youtube are there just to answeryour question

are you really comparing dd trait gameplay vs staff gameplay?

really?

ie is passive even if phase retreat isnt. it is still auto attack.

I’m not even convinced adding Might and swiftness to the boon rotation of PU is a nerf. If you play aggressively with PU, then this will be a fabulous change for you.

zaxon.6819:

ie is passive even if phase retreat isnt. it is still auto attack.

lul, ethereal field and leap finisher? warlock? omg guys really there no limit on being hilarious.

if you just spam aa on staff you are worst na\eu\china player

dont you realize coparing black water gameplay to staff gameplay you seem like you are dowloading game for the 1st time?

you are being ignorant. every weapon has the same amount of active abilities. because scepter has a block and confusion beam dosent mean its auto attack becomes active.

ie is passive nomatter what the rest of the weapon does. for you to even argue anything else is silly.

are you saying that if blackwater uses staff then it is not passive? because your logic dosent even line up.

zaxon.6819:

you are being ignorant. every weapon has the same amount of active abilities. because scepter has a block and confusion beam dosent mean its auto attack becomes active.

ie is passive nomatter what the rest of the weapon does. for you to even argue anything else is silly.

are you saying that if blackwater uses staff then it is not passive? because your logic dosent even line up.

Exactly, this is the ridiculous thing about everyone going on about how this patch is a victory for active gameplay.

Since when is maintaining 3 staff clones and letting hem autoattack ‘active’ gameplay? That’s arguably even less active than clone deaths, since you at least have to worry about the explosion radius with those.

The IE fix is a good change, but anyone arguing that it promotes active gameplay is simply deluding themselves.

at this point though.. its about time to let the forums die and see what happens after patch release. pretty much everything that had to be said.. has been said. we can make a fresh judgment after playtesting.

Changes look OK to me. I don’t love the double-whammy nerfs on both PU and Deb Disipation, but they’re not devastating either. The fact is, both will remain strong after the nerf, and DD is an Adept trait that will continue to be strong for the sole reason of the Weakness it applies.

During all the Scepter whining I pointed out the strong possibility of a PU nerf coming right along with the changes to IE & Scepter, since they clearly were not divulging all changes in the ready ups. I think ANet is doing the right thing here, as they’re obviously improving several things significantly, but then also nerfing the OPd things at the same time. Wish they’d do that more often! ;-)

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, I think people vastly underestimate the improvements to AoE damage output we’re getting. This will not only help in WvW, but will also make Shatter builds even stronger in AoE damage output. They are hardly minor changes and will be useful for far more then just tagging in WvW.

Chaining together an iZerker attack + MW, GS #3, and Power Spike + Powerlock w/HS, is hardly just a tagging operation. It’s a ton of AoE damage in a very short amount of time, all from 1200 range.

I personally can’t wait to see these changes in action…

zaxon.6819:

you are being ignorant. every weapon has the same amount of active abilities. because scepter has a block and confusion beam dosent mean its auto attack becomes active.

ie is passive nomatter what the rest of the weapon does. for you to even argue anything else is silly.

are you saying that if blackwater uses staff then it is not passive? because your logic dosent even line up.

im saying blackwater build, that its a sum of pu, scepter, and clone death trait, give as result a passive gameplay.

Spam clones and let them die and stealth to get advantage of your blackwater build.

In before “every weapon has the same amout of active ability” is the most stupid thing i’ve never read on a forum and its silly you dont realize how you seem writing sentences like this.

The fact itself you compare the scepter beam and the scepter block with a staff cause they have same amount of skill its dumb.

Its like you are telling me a Mercedes offer the same driving option as a Ford fiesta because they have the same amout of wheel.

I dont know if laugh or cry..

Anyway what can you do with scepter?

What you can do with a scepter now?
1) aa chain
2) block or blind
3) apply confusion
off hand torch
4) stealth\burning\blast

So in actual meta with pu scepter torch you have 7 possible option (you dont want to cast a mage cause its a dps drop)

Compare scepter
1) aa chain
2) phase retreat to escape, phase retreat to move forward, phase retreat for leap finisher (taking advantage of every field there is on the ground, ileap to take advantage of blinking spot of maps.
3) warlock (with 5 condie up dmg its reliable even on condie build)
4) chaos armor
5) chaos storm\ethereal field

Obviusely the total skills of the 2 set are the same but the different options that these skill offer are uncomparable.

The number of options (different actions) phase retreat offer by itsself stand above the whole options scepter offer with all 3 of its skill.

More options a weapon set have, more option a player have to put is own skill in the game.

Its sad telling this, but its possible to see more different action on 10 mins helseth (or azani) staff footage than on 1 yeah footage of the whole pu mesmer community.

Buy yeah my logic is broken.

The whole comunity, including the majority of mesmer community is happy about death clones change cause everyone outside you 30 guys it’s ignorant.

Keep up spam clone guys <3 skilled

@aelfwe: Last time I checked, I took a staff when playing PU condie. What part of taking that grandmaster trait prevents me from fully utilizing the capabilities of staff?

Fay.2357:

zaxon.6819:

you are being ignorant. every weapon has the same amount of active abilities. because scepter has a block and confusion beam dosent mean its auto attack becomes active.

ie is passive nomatter what the rest of the weapon does. for you to even argue anything else is silly.

are you saying that if blackwater uses staff then it is not passive? because your logic dosent even line up.

Exactly, this is the ridiculous thing about everyone going on about how this patch is a victory for active gameplay.

Since when is maintaining 3 staff clones and letting hem autoattack ‘active’ gameplay? That’s arguably even less active than clone deaths, since you at least have to worry about the explosion radius with those.

The IE fix is a good change, but anyone arguing that it promotes active gameplay is simply deluding themselves.

Ie is a part of the staff, taking ie itself outside the whole options a staff brings to gameplay its totally clueless.

You will be able to take advantage of ie on every mesmer build who use staff, even on shatter build (where you SHATTER clones) or lockdown build that obviusely are build who dont rely JUST on spam AA.

Or you telling me people with shatter or lockdown wont bring ie after patch? or that they will just aa chain?

Fay.2357:

@aelfwe: Last time I checked, I took a staff when playing PU condie. What part of taking that grandmaster trait prevents me from fully utilizing the capabilities of staff?

Where i wrote something like this?

Im just complainin people who cryes for dd nerf without taking in consideration what staff and ie fix will bring to pu build after patch.

Its a trade between ie fix+staff for dd nerf, and, gameplay wise, its a good trade.

aelfwe.4239:

Fay.2357:

@aelfwe: Last time I checked, I took a staff when playing PU condie. What part of taking that grandmaster trait prevents me from fully utilizing the capabilities of staff?

Where i wrote something like this?

Im just complainin people who cryes for dd nerf without taking in consideration what staff and ie fix will bring to pu build after patch.

Its a trade between ie fix+staff for dd nerf, and, gameplay wise, its a good trade.

Explain to me why ‘gameplay wise’ it’s a good trade? You’re simply trading one passive condition application for another.

As I said earlier, the argument could easily be made that DD was less passive than IE. With DD, you need to worry about having your opponent in the explosion radius. With IE, you just need to keep spamming staff clones and letting them autoattack.

Both traits are purely passive boosts to their respective builds. Neither have interesting counter play, and neither have almost any active component whatsoever. The only difference is that taking IE forces you to burn 20 trait points in illusions instead of domination (yay diversity…?).

Fay.2357:

aelfwe.4239:

Fay.2357:

@aelfwe: Last time I checked, I took a staff when playing PU condie. What part of taking that grandmaster trait prevents me from fully utilizing the capabilities of staff?

Where i wrote something like this?

Im just complainin people who cryes for dd nerf without taking in consideration what staff and ie fix will bring to pu build after patch.

Its a trade between ie fix+staff for dd nerf, and, gameplay wise, its a good trade.

Explain to me why ‘gameplay wise’ it’s a good trade? You’re simply trading one passive condition application for another.

As I said earlier, the argument could easily be made that DD was less passive than IE. With DD, you need to worry about having your opponent in the explosion radius. With IE, you just need to keep spamming staff clones and letting them autoattack.

Both traits are purely passive boosts to their respective builds. Neither have interesting counter play, and neither have almost any active component whatsoever. The only difference is that taking IE forces you to burn 20 trait points in illusions instead of domination (yay diversity…?).

Why do you keep comparing traits changes (dd and ie) extrapolating them from the builds\weapons they are in?

It totally clueless cause you are simply deleting every sinergy who are the base of traits\weapon choice in this way..

dd vs ie changes is not just about “how much dps gain\loss” cause if you have dd now you arent playing just “dd” and after 9th septmeber you wont play just “ie”.

Both dd and ie changes brings consequences to build you are playing. These “consequences” is what i call “gameplay wise”.

Keeping to speak of the single trait changes without taking into consideratios what the change will bring on builds gameplay its like closing one eye. You lose prospective.

Take ie fix.

IE doesnt just means, like you and some other people says, that you will rely on clones’ aa spam

IE fix means anet finally added a source of reliable substained dmg on staff, on other words IE fix makes staff able to do significan pressure (the lack of pressure in staff imao was the biggest lack of staff itself).

The ability of pressuring the staff is goin to take with IE fix is good for nearly every mesmer build.

In particular standing on condie pu build staff will become a viable condie stack weapon.

But outside condie potential staff will bring some innate mobility and comboin options that are not bounded with ie fix.

These options will impact on every build (pu too) who is goin to take staff in.

On other hand classic blackwater now rely a big part of its own pressure on the trait DD and on scepter (and pistol).

On other words under a condie pressure point of view ie and dd changes are simply moving a part of condie pressure from dd trait to ie (aka staff).

Under a pu point of view taking stsff will cover dd dmg drop and will give you some more mobility\comboin option (gameplay improvement) without sacrificing condie capability.

And whenever you speak of “where is build diversity” i see a lot of build diversity incoming from this changes, because where DD is a trait that bring benefit just to ci and pu build, staff is a weapon who can be used in many different kind of mesmer build, from shatter to lockdown, from shatter condie to pu build. Maybe some condie lockdown build too..

Yeah every of these build will have 4 points in illusion but da kitten about points cause these build got different gameplay.

And to be honest nearly every mesmer build now got 4 point in domi, so what’s the difference having 4 points there or in illusion.

Only things who matters are results.

And result says that having different gameplays viable is, imao, a good trade “gameplay wise”

I hope to have been clear

I guess running away from a PU Mesmer was hard for the bads to do so Anet decided to just obliterate the spec.

yeah zera great zera you pro zera imba zera win zera op you strong zera teach us how to master running away <3

Blades of Sabatine.5639:

Azo.5860:

Blades of Sabatine.5639:

I was just going to make a post on the state of mez in PvP. Every mez I come across is playing pu or a variant of it. Then I came across this post.

I have to say I am glad and can’t wait for this change to be implemented.

We will note see who is a mez and who is not. What I mean is who play the class because they like the class and the game play to those who play the class because of how op a pu build can be..

So to those that are crying about this change, either you learn to play a different build or go play another class.

It that simple.

And pls divide competitive gaming and casual gaming.. It ll help more on state of mes..

I don’t agree with pu not been good in competitive game play. Yes in most cases you won’t run it cause of point loss when you stay hidden for to long, but you can play pu as an offensive play.

If you look at each skills and say this is all difference or offence, then you are narrowing your view of the class.

We not seeing mez in high level pvp game is more to do with the class been broken or all the bugs or Anet not sure how to balance the class and not the build/pu.

I am not going to get into any text war with anyone over my thoughts on pu and competitive tpvp, this are my thoughts and I stand by it.

Allow me to simplify the issue for you then. If it (gear, traits, weapons, runes, sigils, whatever) results in victory for your team, it is the best option for competitive tpvp play (or even casual for that matter). If it results in your teams loss, if its weak, if its inappropriate for play, it’s not competitive.

So if PU results in a win, it’s competitive. If PU results in a loss, it’s uncompetitive. This is basic Play to Win philosophy. Your sense and sensibilities on the various faucets are otherwise irrelevant.

Some of the “nerfs” I understand such as the reduction on bleed stacks, the addition of might and swiftness, but the whole being able to block, evade, etc. major conditions really concerns me.

Unblockable trait conditions helped me condition mesmer deal with threats like bunker guardians and thieves especially. On one hand, it may force other professions to use their blocks and evades so it might be good, but I have a feeling there will be ways to block out the conditions or evade them a little too well. This might actually force more people to play PU just to hide in stealth until your conditions can hit.

No matter how much they nerf the PU build, as long as stealth is involved players will call it OP.

Also, I think it’s a huge mistake to listen to Helseth about anything. When they announced the change he immediately posted something like … Yes I am once again the only mesmer!

That doesn’t seem like someone who is interested in the health of the class.

PU is here to stay for better or for worse, these nerfs won’t change that. The build will change a bit to use IE and along with the Scepter changes it’ll be just about as strong as it is now against 1-3 opponents, but it’ll be a little less useful in AoE applications.

In return for these fairly reasonable and expected nerfs, I believe we’ll definitely see more build variety.

Sagat.3285:

Saying it again remove the might from PU fine with everything else.

Windwalker.7421:

PU is here to stay for better or for worse, these nerfs won’t change that. The build will change a bit to use IE and along with the Scepter changes it’ll be just about as strong as it is now against 1-3 opponents, but it’ll be a little less useful in AoE applications.

In return for these fairly reasonable and expected nerfs, I believe we’ll definitely see more build variety.

More likely people will update their condit PU and call it a day…
On the other hand…power PU lol…. I weep…

I’d rather have the might and swiftness go away. :s

Sagat.3285:

Sagat.3285:

Saying it again remove the might from PU fine with everything else.

Or replace Might with Retaliation.

Windwalker.7421:

PU is here to stay for better or for worse, these nerfs won’t change that. The build will change a bit to use IE and along with the Scepter changes it’ll be just about as strong as it is now against 1-3 opponents, but it’ll be a little less useful in AoE applications.

In return for these fairly reasonable and expected nerfs, I believe we’ll definitely see more build variety.

This.

+1

Finally.

TooBz.3065:

No matter how much they nerf the PU build, as long as stealth is involved players will call it OP.

Also, I think it’s a huge mistake to listen to Helseth about anything. When they announced the change he immediately posted something like … Yes I am once again the only mesmer!

That doesn’t seem like someone who is interested in the health of the class.

I think that was meant to be a comment on how Mesmer became vastly more popular when PU was buffed and everyone started playing the spec. Now that PU is “nerfed” maybe they’ll all move on to the next flavor-of-the-month class.

Which, in my opinion, is good for the health of the class.

WhiteRose.6934:

TooBz.3065:

No matter how much they nerf the PU build, as long as stealth is involved players will call it OP.

Also, I think it’s a huge mistake to listen to Helseth about anything. When they announced the change he immediately posted something like … Yes I am once again the only mesmer!

That doesn’t seem like someone who is interested in the health of the class.

I think that was meant to be a comment on how Mesmer became vastly more popular when PU was buffed and everyone started playing the spec. Now that PU is “nerfed” maybe they’ll all move on to the next flavor-of-the-month class.

Which, in my opinion, is good for the health of the class.

Maybe. It didn’t come across that way to me when I saw it.

Anyway, I also worry that they spent 4-6 months coming up with a buff to the scepter and 4-6 days coming up with a PU nerf to counterbalance it.

If they iterated on buffs / nerfs more often then it wouldn’t be a big deal, but we have to live with whatever they do for a long, long time.

TooBz.3065:

Anyway, I also worry that they spent 4-6 months coming up with a buff to the scepter and 4-6 days coming up with a PU nerf to counterbalance it.

If they iterated on buffs / nerfs more often then it wouldn’t be a big deal, but we have to live with whatever they do for a long, long time.

On the first part, I really don’t think that was the case. I do believe they wanted to see the player reaction to the buffs first, but I am fairly certain that they intended to nerf PU all along. I think they rather wanted to let us soak up the positive changes first, before smacking us with the nerfs. All in the same day, the Mesmers would have been mor busy crying foul over a PU nerf, then discussing the changes.

It just depends on if you want to give them the benefit of the doubt.

I agree 100% with the second statement you made. I wish they’d spend more time tweaking changes too, but in my over 18 years of playing MMORPGs (OMG! I just seriously realized this! lol!) I’ve wished this for every single game I’ve ever played. I guess it’s harder to do then we think.

After happily planning new builds for next week, now all I can think about is the following not unlikely scenario:

What if the fixes to IE and iLeap are bugged and don’t work, but of course the nerfs to DD, PU, etc. still go through? I suppose I’ll still try a maim build even if IE continues to not work, and I suppose shatter will go on working like it does now and I’ll just have to play without sword… or maybe I’ll just throw up my hands and finally walk away after being turded on for the Nth time :-/

Seriously, eff our Mesmer community for QQing SO much about the scepter buff. Instead of accepting the buff as is, we complained so much that they didn’t just nerf PU but ALL condition builds.

Say goodbye to all condition builds sans MtD, and even that is questionably effective.

The only saving grace is now people won’t complain about PU being OP. This will shift the community into the lockdown builds.

MailMail.6534:

Seriously, eff our Mesmer community for QQing SO much about the scepter buff. Instead of accepting the buff as is, we complained so much that they didn’t just nerf PU but ALL condition builds.

Say goodbye to all condition builds sans MtD, and even that is questionably effective.

The only saving grace is now people won’t complain about PU being OP. This will shift the community into the lockdown builds.

Oh quit being so hyperbolic. The sky isn’t falling. The mesmer community (well, half of it) opposed the scepter buff because the buff doesn’t promote active gameplay, team synergy, or overall game health. And the nerfs to PU and DD won’t cripple condi builds at all. Those same builds will still be pretty strong.

mango.9267:

MailMail.6534:

Seriously, eff our Mesmer community for QQing SO much about the scepter buff. Instead of accepting the buff as is, we complained so much that they didn’t just nerf PU but ALL condition builds.

Say goodbye to all condition builds sans MtD, and even that is questionably effective.

The only saving grace is now people won’t complain about PU being OP. This will shift the community into the lockdown builds.

Oh quit being so hyperbolic. The sky isn’t falling. The mesmer community (well, half of it) opposed the scepter buff because the buff doesn’t promote active gameplay, team synergy, or overall game health. And the nerfs to PU and DD won’t cripple condi builds at all. Those same builds will still be pretty strong.

I could care less about PU. That nerf was more than necessary. The Mesmer class is all about punishing lazy skill play. Clone death traits are a hallmark of this fact and it being nerfed is a shame.

I don’t disagree with you about the scepter buff promoting passive play, but the alternative now has been the crippling dissipation of Condition Builds. See what I did there?

Why does everyone (Including other mesmers) automatically assume you use PU when you run conditions? its annoying. They blame their loss for the trait. wtf

MailMail.6534:

I could care less about PU. That nerf was more than necessary. The Mesmer class is all about punishing lazy skill play. Clone death traits are a hallmark of this fact and it being nerfed is a shame.

I disagree. I don’t think Clone Deaths are usually caused by lazy play, but rather that the attacker often has little choice but destroy clones by the fact that so many attacks in this game are multi-target ones. I also don’t think we’re meant to specifically “punish lazy play”, but more generally that we force the enemy to think when fighting us, which is not quite the same thing.

We got a big boost to our ability to apply a strong controlling condition from the Scepter and it’s clones. This will limit our opponents ability to play the way they want to when facing a Mesmer. They will have a harder time chasing after us, or in-turn running away from us. Relying on cleanses alone will not really work well for them either, so they will have to consider standing still more in order to limit Torment damage.

I kinda feel that this abundant Torment love is related to the fact that Confusion is such a weak condition for us. I believe they’re simply afraid to boost Confusion and repeat history, and handed us a new and more balanced alternative control condition instead. There is a big difference in forcing other players to literally not do anything at all in fear of killing themselves, or simply forcing some tough choices on them. Torment is just a more balanced control condition and fits the Mesmer very well.

MailMail.6534:

I don’t disagree with you about the scepter buff promoting passive play, but the alternative now has been the crippling dissipation of Condition Builds. See what I did there?

It’s not like Clone Death punishments are gone, they’ve just been toned down. DD is still a very solid Adept trait in a very solid line.

Lastly, if a build is focused around a single Adept trait, I think it’s a pretty clear indication that this trait is not properly balanced. ;-)

guy lets w8 few more days and see…

basicaly thief can pressure you with constant 5-8 bleed stacks and burst from few more conditions with venoms
engi can stack you with 5 bleed stacks and more conditions in more dps range
necro can stack you 10 bleed stacks and burst with few conditions with torment and signet and fear

mesmer (pu or not pu) can stack 6-9 bleed stack with only dd trait with clones death and with phantsm crit 3 more but got less bursty conditions
now the ie will give you the chance to do more conditions dmg and maybe constant burning which equal to 6 stacks of bleeding and with shatter build more torment and with AA scpeter more torment for covering the condition you want to stack
warrior can do 15 bleed stack and 5 torment
ranger can do 8 bleed stacks and with traps few more bursty conditions

so basicly i think it wont be much a change rather the player have to observe when to attack , when to shatter , and not hide so much in stealth if you PU and use your staff clone maybe far from eachother to do more dmg

so i think not much a change but more variant of builds to come

End of world is coming,mesmer comunity is shaking….

On a more serious note,am i the only one seeing swiftness on pu as buff?And scepter AA change is just awesome.I even think that scepter clones doing torment beside usuall on crit bleed sounds bit too strong.

On other side,it would be pleasant if mesmer would be looked at his ability to play in organized melee train.The whole shatter/clone “phantasm/clone deal dmg” mechanic is kinda group unfriendly,maybe some trait to give dmg imunity to clones for few sec,or something.We cant really choose to ignore our clones/phantasms as other classes their npc followers.Or some more direct aoe dmg posibilities,or at least buff to signet for clones hp so we can MW inside aoe circles if we are fast enough.

KaporHabakuk.6219:

End of world is coming,mesmer comunity is shaking….

On a more serious note,am i the only one seeing swiftness on pu as buff?And scepter AA change is just awesome.I even think that scepter clones doing torment beside usuall on crit bleed sounds bit too strong.

On other side,it would be pleasant if mesmer would be looked at his ability to play in organized melee train.The whole shatter/clone “phantasm/clone deal dmg” mechanic is kinda group unfriendly,maybe some trait to give dmg imunity to clones for few sec,or something.We cant really choose to ignore our clones/phantasms as other classes their npc followers.Or some more direct aoe dmg posibilities,or at least buff to signet for clones hp so we can MW inside aoe circles if we are fast enough.

Swiftness for 3 seconds. In stealth. It may help speed up repositioning but that’s about it and it wasn’t like you couldn’t do that without swiftness before but as someone else mentioned… in combat speed reduction…

Promoting passive gameplay is not good. :<

Really its not that mesmers will be able to apply torment on scepter AA that bothers me.

Its the fact they will apply it so fast due to clones also applying it via AA, & this will make cleansing it nearly pointless due to how fast it will be stacked with other conditions again.

If they would take it off the first scepter AA so clones cannot apply it then increase the duration (even double it) for the second & 3rd AA then it would be fine.