Guild Wars 2

TL;DR at the end

Let me start by saying that most of the changes on mesmer’s traits are good and I fully understand this is a work in progress.
Also, these are my thoughts as a (mostly) pve player.
I’ve tried to consider how mesmer’s traits work in pvp in the most popular builds so this wouldn’t cripple them in any way.

Watching the stream I noticed that grandmasters traits are now more build-defining than before (Mental Torment, Deceptive evasion etc.).
With the rebalancing of the Domination line we have 2 clear routes: Shatter and Interrupts.
We have, however, really good traits that benefit builds that rely on direct damage and phantasms damage, namely the old Empowered Illusions and the new Fragility minor which is an amazing trait to have.
*But..when we get to GM traits we are presented with 3 choices: *

• A shatter trait
• A interrupts trait
• Greatsword Cooldown & bonus Power

Greatsword training is currently in testing with the main mechanic being reducing cooldowns by 2% every GS Auto-Attack from the player and his clones.
Power from wielding a GS has also been buffed from 50 up to 100.
In this current state this is nowhere near an actual grandmaster trait.

Firstly, it forces a useless trait to a mesmer that wants the line and don’t care about shatter, interrupts or GS.
Secondly, we have other examples of the same kind of trait: Ranger has received the same trement regarding LB.
But… the new “Lead the wind” gives flat 20% recharge, 10% attack speed increase and piercing arrows.
Plus, with the new Remorseless trait, ranger has an option that doesn’t lock the grandmasters in a specific build.
Let’s not even bring up something like Forceful Greatsword – which is a master trait.

In my opinion Greatsword Training should be moved back to master tier – either leaving as it is in its new iteration or brought back to the original state.
Furious interruption could be merged with Power Block, or Shattered Concentration could be merged with Mental Torment (considering balancing numbers if necessary ofc).

Now we have one empty Grandmaster slot.
My solution would be to look at the Illusion traitline, which is mostly based on shatters and conditions.
Here we have 2 really good traits for pure damage/phantasms builds: Compounding Power and Phantasmal Haste.
Since most of the other traits in the new iteration are focused on conditions and shatters, my solution would be to merge these two traits in something like:

Phantasmal Master:
" Gain increased damage for each of your active illusions.
Reduces recharge on phantasm attack skills.

Damage Increase: 3%
Recharge on phantasm attack reduced: 20%"

This trait would become a Grandmaster in Domination, making the 3 choices really impactful on the gameplay.
As for the 2 trait slots in Illusion I think they could find more meaningful and better sinergizing traits easily.

TL;DR
Greatsword training as a grandmaster is lackluster – should be moved back to master tier.
Compounding Power and Phantasmal Haste from the Illusion line should be merged and turned into a Domination Grandmaster.
Filling the missing traits in Illusions with better sinergizing ones.

What do you guys think?

I think this is actually not a bad idea. Would solve most Problems for PvE players. So you just have to pick the first 2 traitlines and finish with inspiration for more support and focus trait.

I came up with another solution:

1. Remove the damage from HM and make it an Master trait
2. Move Evasive Mirror to Inspiration instead
3. Make Warden’s Feedback the new Duelling GM trait and add 25% reflect damage.

(This would also solve some problems for PvP builds)

And I would like to to see Temporal Enchanter giving stability instead of super speed!

Both changes together would be even better for PvE mesmers! They open up damage Phantasm builds with great support potential

I suggest assuming the greatsword trait means 2s and see what you think then. More likely to be 1s or so but 2% is probably a display bug.

Toeofdoom.6152:

I suggest assuming the greatsword trait means 2s and see what you think then. More likely to be 1s or so but 2% is probably a display bug.

Well, even with 2% it could be a really great dps enhancer. (And maybe a fun one too.)

Per Hit 2%, Spatial Surge hits three times per Cast, so every 1.4 seconds -6% CD. (triple that amount if you have two clone up).
Current ‘Greatsword Training’ will leave your Phantasm with 16 seconds CD.
With yourself and two clones (maybe trough Deceptive Evasion) up, ‘Phantasmal Berserker’ is ready after 6 seconds. (-18% or -3.6 seconds every 1.4 seconds)

Edit: There are still open questions: F.e. in a situation where you hit multiple foes with spatial surge, does the -2% CD proc multiple times?

Neijala Ceya.1785:

I came up with another solution:

1. Remove the damage from HM and make it an Master trait

:-( remove damage from HM i would cry when they would do that! it got nerved anyway. i dont want to useless use my healing mantra to do more dmg.

I see also the dmg phantasm build for pve which is a 60066 gs/signet build , 06660 Reflector, 60660 Boonsupporter, these are 3 builds for just for pve without interrupt an d just a bit shatter.

the thing is they want to have the shatter because it is the mechanic of the mesmer and they want that you have to use more skills on the mesmer which i totally understand.

Mordy.6780:

Now we have one empty Grandmaster slot.
My solution would be to look at the Illusion traitline, which is mostly based on shatters and conditions.
Here we have 2 really good traits for pure damage/phantasms builds: Compounding Power and Phantasmal Haste.
Since most of the other traits in the new iteration are focused on conditions and shatters, my solution would be to merge these two traits in something like:

Phantasmal Master:
" Gain increased damage for each of your active illusions.
Reduces recharge on phantasm attack skills.

Damage Increase: 3%
Recharge on phantasm attack reduced: 20%"

This trait would become a Grandmaster in Domination, making the 3 choices really impactful on the gameplay.
As for the 2 trait slots in Illusion I think they could find more meaningful and better sinergizing traits easily.

TL;DR
Greatsword training as a grandmaster is lackluster – should be moved back to master tier.
Compounding Power and Phantasmal Haste from the Illusion line should be merged and turned into a Domination Grandmaster.
Filling the missing traits in Illusions with better sinergizing ones.

What do you guys think?

Perfect. I also like the suggestion in the post below your initial post of moving Warden’s feedback to the Dueling GM slot. Currently, phantasm damage builds have zero options in the new GM slots. This would fix that nicely.

I don’t think anyone would go in Chaos for Dungeons/Fractals because it just doesn’t offers the team much. As you are in melee range nearly all the time gs isn’t a good choice either. I would rather take Mental Torment to shatter everything when the boss is nearly down or your phantasm are ging to die for some high burst.

For max damage you would choose Dominitaion, Duelling and Illusions for damage modifiers and lower phantasm recharge. Unfortunately you would have to give up one of them for Warden’s Feedback and some of these offer no good traits in all positions (GM Illusions).

You should try out healing signet. The heal is good and it also increases your damage
And you don’t become useless for nearly 3 seconds to recharge it – or more if you are forced to doge while casting it.

Well and for open world anything is good enough…

I have to agree – this traitline grandmaster traits suck pretty hard for pve mes. Actually all grandmaster traits except for duelling suck for pve mes. They have to change that. Especially Domination and Illusions. And a buff to glamour duration, wich seems lackluster for a GMT.

Good suggestion, Mordy. Having a Weapon Training skill as a GM feels kind of weird, even if it were a great weapon training skill (which GS Training actually could be, if the “2%” is a placeholder for a bigger number). I also like your suggestions for putting a Phantasm trait into the Domination GM slot.

Wait a minute.

rechecks OP’s name

It’s a trap! Mordy’s trying to nerf us so we can’t beat the HoT content!

@ Mordy
I do understand that you want to have a powerful phantsm build. but i think it would be extreme. putting this in the domination line. It would not only give you a huge dmg boost, it would also offer you the way to run super tanky(from the other 2 traids)

as it is now you have to use 2 offensive lines to get to the power you want

GS training is true it needs a buff comapred to the other domination GM. It depens on how fast your cd is. it would be extramly strong using you berzerker every 10 secons.

why i think it need a buff GT: 2000 —>2100 =5% comared to 2000+[25-50%]=2500-3000

@ Neijala Ceya
ahh why not chaos?? eaqual support with boons like gardians 20s protection with staff + Sword Sword. (without boon duration) Especiall in combination with the guardian it will be realy awsome play together as the supporter. boon durations of +80% are possible on your mesmer. 100% while standing in hollowed ground.

@ Xyonon
we dont know what glamour will bring us i hope they dont nerf them. But what i think is that timewarp +2 seconds is realy nice meybe they also add a slow effect for opponents who pass them or resistance for Nulleeld.

Can someone tell me what is the actuall problem with mesmer in pve and the GMs we got?

Flow.2947:

@ Mordy
I do understand that you want to have a powerful phantsm build. but i think it would be extreme. putting this in the domination line. It would not only give you a huge dmg boost, it would also offer you the way to run super tanky(from the other 2 traids)

Yeah I can understand your point, however if you look at some of the rebalanced traits line you can see this kind of stuff has already been done in some cases.

For example, if you look at the revamped Strength line for warrior you have the following traits:
– Stick and move – 10% damage if endurance is not full (minor adept)
– Forceful Greatsword – 10% damage increase with gs – might on crit. flat 20% cd on gs (master)
-Berserk Power – Gain a damage boost when you use a burst skill (last 10s) (grandmaster)
– Adrenaline Stage 1: 10% damage
– Adrenaline Stage 2: 15% damage
– Adrenaline Stage 3: 20% damage

Considering that the cooldown of the GS burst skill is 10 seconds (same as the duration of the trait) you can see that, if warrior rely correctly on the sinergy of these traits, you can have up to 40% flat damage boost – Worst case scenario 20%.
Warrior base damages are higher than mesmer most of the times too.

Now, if you consider that:
– Keeping up 3 illusions can be kinda hard in pve – and if you rely on illusions to quickly fullfil the trait requirements you are giving up on phantasms damage: you have to set up it correctly.
- In the best case scenario is a 9% boost – summed up with the minor grandmaster we are looking at 19% – again, considering that mesmer personal damage is generally lower than most of the classes I find that you invest in offensive traits you should get this kind of boost.
- The % damage is applied only to the mesmer. Not to phantasms or illusions.
- With this trait setup a warrior has might from the GS trait PLUS permanent Fury. Mesmer has generally less access to Boons if not traited properly – and usually with worst uptimes.

I don’t really think it would be that overpowered if you would pair it to tanky lines.
I could see a really high spike of damage if you pair it with the new Empowered Mantras – but then again that requires cycling your mantras.

If it was the case I would totally understand if this would be toned down a bit, for sure.
Numbers might be not balanced, but I really like the idea.
And if they come up with a better GS trait… I don’t really know.
I find that tying grandmaster traits to weapons hinders a lot of possibilities, especially on mesmer.

Flow.2947:

@ Mordy
I do understand that you want to have a powerful phantsm build. but i think it would be extreme. putting this in the domination line. It would not only give you a huge dmg boost, it would also offer you the way to run super tanky(from the other 2 traids)

as it is now you have to use 2 offensive lines to get to the power you want

GS training is true it needs a buff comapred to the other domination GM. It depens on how fast your cd is. it would be extramly strong using you berzerker every 10 secons.

why i think it need a buff GT: 2000 —>2100 =5% comared to 2000+[25-50%]=2500-3000

@ Neijala Ceya
ahh why not chaos?? eaqual support with boons like gardians 20s protection with staff + Sword Sword. (without boon duration) Especiall in combination with the guardian it will be realy awsome play together as the supporter. boon durations of +80% are possible on your mesmer. 100% while standing in hollowed ground.

@ Xyonon
we dont know what glamour will bring us i hope they dont nerf them. But what i think is that timewarp +2 seconds is realy nice meybe they also add a slow effect for opponents who pass them or resistance for Nulleeld.

Can someone tell me what is the actuall problem with mesmer in pve and the GMs we got?

The Chaos line only helps you survive and not your whole team. Though you can share boons with signet, it has a high cooldown and those boons aren’t really required in PvE. Especially since other classes can provide those without dmg loss.

Compared to other classes mesmer makes very very bad dmg in PvE. And because a guard provides good dmg and reflect, condi remove, stability and aegis he is generally the one picked by groups.

Furthermore shatter damage builds are not really viable as the overall dps is quite low. PvE bosses just have to much hp to burst them. Best way to mantain high dps as a mesmer is having 3 phantasm and only shatter them if the boss or are all phantasm are about to die anyway.
Another good source is reflect damage. With Warden’s Feedback you can have very high reflect uptime, but reflect damage isn’t that good because the mesmer lacks damage modifiers.

Greatsword isn’t the weapon of choice either, as you generally are in melee range.

Completely agree with OP. In my opinion, one of the main problems with mesmer in PVE is that our main source of damage (phantasms) has its traits scattered across 3 different lines, and we have little to no options regarding grandmaster traits. This issue deserves to be at least looked at by the dev team (unless they are saving all the PVE OPness for the elite spec, which is highly unlikely…).

How about a trait that instant summons phantasms? #we need that for pve

@Mordy.6780 ok i got that with the dmg now and understand that your phantasm should also do more dmg to vournable foes but i still wouldn’t change the lines and put them in. if you want to have a full phantasm build you would go 60066.

Neijala Ceya.1785:

The Chaos line only helps you survive and not your whole team. Though you can share boons with signet, it has a high cooldown and those boons aren’t really required in PvE. Especially since other classes can provide those without dmg loss.

Greatsword isn’t the weapon of choice either, as you generally are in melee range.

you mean general boons in pve?
i mean you can give your group perma protection and vigor

id go full zerker here:
domination: phantasm dmg + signet CD so it is 38s cd + shatter or interrupt(is a nice extra)
chaos: 3% perphantasm+ protaction on chaosarmor + when you shattter you give the boon from BD
inspiration: give vigour on shatter + gain swiftness when you shatter + activate signet of inspiration when you summon a phantasm 38s cd

boons being shared 2 times so you tribble the times. Your group gets huge buff and not only that if your timewarp gives you quickness(as boon) what do you think when you tribble the time for your group is it a dmg boost?

if a mesmer can play like that i realy want to have this person in my party!

Stability from BD and Protection from Chaos Armor only lasts for 5 seconds.
Signet of Inspiration has 3/4 seconds cast time and phantasms 3/4-1 second. With aftercast and reaction time you may give your allies 4s+3s=7s of Protection and Stability. Considering the signet recharge that is 7s everry 38s, that’s less than 1/5 upkeep.
A guard with hammer can easily mantain permanent protection, while making 20% more dmg because the enemy stands in his symbol. So every sane person would prefer the guard. With Mantra of Concentration and mantra trait you can give your group 3 stacks of stabilty instead of 1 and for 6s with a cooldown of 25s. As 1stack of stability is much to low if you need stability in dungeons (most of the time) going into choas for that is not a good option. Also consider that a guard can give the group still more stability than the mesmer. Again while making much more dmg than the mesmer.

As timewarp pulses quickness for 1s every second, you can not increase the time with the inspiration signet.

I also wouldn’t call a dom/insp/chaos memser full zerker…

Teutos.8620:

In a situation where you hit multiple foes with spatial surge, does the -2% CD proc multiple times?

If I recall correctly, they said in the livestream on Twitch that it would only proc on a single enemy. While I would thoroughly enjoy multiple procs, it would be REALLY powerful considering that Spacial Surge can hit up to three targets, which would add up to a possible 18% reduction from just the Mesmer and not including any GS clones. It would be even worse if Toeofdoom is right and it’s just a placeholder and it becomes 2 SECONDS per hit.

jdlawhorn.8061:

Teutos.8620:

In a situation where you hit multiple foes with spatial surge, does the -2% CD proc multiple times?

If I recall correctly, they said in the livestream on Twitch that it would only proc on a single enemy. While I would thoroughly enjoy multiple procs, it would be REALLY powerful considering that Spacial Surge can hit up to three targets, which would add up to a possible 18% reduction from just the Mesmer and not including any GS clones. It would be even worse if Toeofdoom is right and it’s just a placeholder and it becomes 2 SECONDS per hit.

After seeing how much it affects long CD skills I think that’s unlikely, also I was assuming per channel at the time. 1 Second per channel would be reasonable but tilted much more towards mirror blade spam.